I am starting to go through something weird. Wondering if anyone else has felt this way. I am beginning to wonder if the great H and relationship with him I envision ever existed, the more I Plan A the more I feel better about letting my H go, the more I feel better about myself. It seems like he hasn't learned anything from what he is going through. But all this has changed me. Mostly in good ways, some bad (working on those).

In the beginning I envisioned him coming back having learned something about love and commitment, something about the importance of family and what things really matter. I have heard some things lately that lead me to think he hasn't learned too much at all.

Maybe I am just tired. I am almost afraid if he came back I'd be dissapointed. I KNOW I'm not perfect but I want someone who at least TRIES to make us BOTH happy. Is this selfish? It makes me sad to think that maybe I just built up a fantasy in my mind. One that never was and never will be. I don't want my old marriage back. He just went through the motions for the last 5 years. I don't want that. I don't want someone who considers being married to me a chore, nothing but a responsibility, like writing a check each month. I want some depth of feeling.

I don't understand all this. This is the first time I have begun to question if I wanted him back. It isn't the first time I have considered giving up, but this is the first time it has had something to do with ME not wanting HIM back, not the other way around.

What in the heck is up with me? Is this just part of the roller coaster? Or is it just a drawback of living alone for a year? Or am I just beginning to realize something H woke up to long ago? That it's over.

fw,

I am at that place too. So much of what you posted speaks to me. WH's friends thought I was nuts doing plan A at first. Then it happened to him !!! His wife was cheating on him. I told him that I am glad I did it this way - I'm a better me, I am able to let go in peace.

I'm tired & need my beauty sleep!!!

D.

FBW, I think it shows you just how special you really are and how you want a relationship to be and what you want from one!! I think you got a chance to get back to what you know is crucial in a relationship and should make common sense, not the ("I'm goin thru the motions cause I have a ring on my finger and an albatross around my neck") thinking that he was doing. I like reading your strength and your perceptions of what it is that YOU want now, let him be the gerbil on the wheel while you emerge a whole new being like a butterfly coming out of a cocoon. So if you are weird in your thinking, I want to be weird too. I think it is logical thinking on your part because you have been going thru this a long time, and if you see the same image from him, and it is not what you have come to realize that is not what you want, how will it work? What would be the difference in rebuilding the relationship if he has not grown, and you have? I hope he does decide to wake up and come to terms with what it is that a relationship really stands for and is willing to do ALL the hard work that YOU have had to do in the last year. Take Care.

Thanks WGTT and Neesha,

I appreciate your support. It does feel weird and this is a place I don't think I thought I'd ever be. All through this my focus has been "What can I do to get him back". Now it is changing to "What can he do to get ME back". I don't know that he even wants to, probably not, but it feels a heck of a lot better being on the other side of the fence for once.

WGTT, I don't agree with your friends, Plan A is not nuts. It is a process and a good one. I just wished it had worked in my case.

Neesha, I don't know about butterfly, I'm still a moth but I'm working on that too. Thanks for your kind words. It means alot. I hope some strength shows through. I have worked hard for that too.

Thanks again, I also know without my support here I wouldn't be close to feeling better. You all help so much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Peace and happiness to you both,

Sharon

<small>[ December 12, 2002, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: footballwidow ]</small>

Sharon,

Congrtaulations!!!!!

Believe it or not, you are right where you need to be.

I know that I have not been married so most people might dismiss my opinions, but I believe that you have received the lesson that you needed to learn in Plan A. That is to work on yourself, and to make yourself the best person that you can be.

You don't NEED your H! YOU DO deserve better. You have tried to love him and show to him that you are interested in a future with him. You have done the BEST that you could. Can you still LOVE him, YES. That doesn't mean that your life has to end because the "R" didn't go the way you planned.

Now that you are at this point, many wonderful new things will start to happen for you.

You will still have days where you regress into that old mode of desiring what was, but now that you've gotten to this point, You can't stay there permanently.

Sharon,
I think it is healthy to realize that if the 2 of you were to reconcile, it should be an actual decision by both of you.

Sometimes the BS is just so thankful the WS is coming home that the BS doesn't talk about expectations. Sometimes it still works out.

I remember for the first couple separations having that "I'll never ask for anything more than him being in the house."

It was nuts. Of course I wanted more than a breathing body taking up space! But my fear & desperation led me to think his being here with no firm committment to me and our marriage could be a good start.

I wanted communication, companionship, love, affection, I wanted a husband not me doing a sole Plan A for the rest of my miserable life! Recovering marriages move past Plan A to the 4 rules of successful marriages, otherwise, there's emptiness.

You see that and you'll be stronger for it.

I'm glad you're in that place!

Kily,

Thanks for your reply. I value any heartfelt reply. I know what you mean. I don’t NEED my H. I used to think I could never get along without him, that I was too weak. But I am doing beautifully. The only thing I really hate is being financially dependent. But he knew in leaving that I would be. Part of the price of freedom. But I don’t intend on being that way forever.

I do want someone who will get me their best and get my best in return. Everyone deserves to be treated with worth and respect. My H did not respect me when HE decided I wasn’t worthy of trying to talk about our problems. He had an A and ran off to solve his unhappiness. I think part of the problem is he KNEW I would try everything to make things work and for whatever reasons, he didn’t want that. He said as much, saying he would feel too much guilt and cause me too much unhappiness if we tried and it didn’t work. BULLSH#* . He just wanted the easy way out.

Plan A or no Plan A EVERYONE has the right to be treated with respect. I will not settle for anyone who would just go through the motions anymore. If H decides to come back he will know that it will not be just so his life will improve. If it doesn’t improve OUR lives (me, him and kids) he isn’t getting his foot in the door. I don’t think he has the desire to come back but it is good to know for me, inside, that I have a standard that anyone who is getting this good family will have to live up to.

If the only good thing that ever comes out of this thing is learning that, it was worth it. All the pain and sadness. If we can learn our self-worth and the worth of our families, thank God.

I hope this doesn't sound stuck-up or like I'm some big prize, but I know my kids and I are worthy of a good husband and father.

Thanks Kily, BTW how are you doing? You sound good and strong yourself. In your recent posts to H_ P you sound well. Hang in there.

Lor, Espoir,

Thanks for letting me know I’m on the right track. Just wish I knew where it was going.
Lor it is especially comforting to know that you reached the same place and were able to work things out. I am not holding out much hope but it's nice to know just the same that things can and do change for the better.

Thanks everyone.

I keep thinking about something you said a while back, and ( finally) I wanted to comment on it.

I don't remember the quote exactly but you said something to the effect that your H claimed that it was you wanting to go to church that pushed him away.

While I don't believe what he said, I suppose since I can't read his mind I shouldn't call what he said an untruth. However, remember that it is never wrong to do what is right, no matter how others react to it.

I firmly believe you are going in the right direction. When I read the above about your feelings after a good plan A, It seemed to me that you are where you should be. Plan A is supposed to make you into a better person and from your reaction, it has done it's job. A better person can cope better with life's problems without falling apart, and that describes you most days. (hey, we all have some bad days, don't worry too much about them.) Plan A is supposed to enable you to say "I did all that I could do," so that you don't have regrets. It really sounds like a great success for you personally. I wish it was a success for your H as well.

Another fun fact for you. I live in the same state that you do, and if I know you, that will prompt a question, so, yes, I am.

SS

SS,

You are so funny, you're last comment got me laughing. Only someone from Utah would get it. Where abouts do you live? Don't worry I won't come knocking on your door, just general info. I'm in SLC.

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate them. I do feel changed in quite a few ways. It has been a rough year but you know I stood up in church 2 weeks ago and said I wouldn't change anything good or bad that has happened because it has put me where I am now. Surrounded by friends, true ones, loving my family, and basically happy. I have been blessed abundantly, even if I have screwed up alot.

I don't know about my H's church comment, but if your last sentence means what I think it means, then you understand the implications and reasons why someone would want to end a marriage over "church". I can't read his mind either, but I do know in my heart I was trying to do the best for my family, it backfired in a way, but I don't regret trying. My church therapist said at the outset of this that it would come down to the war between truth and lies. Would my H be able to learn, accept and live the truth or listen to the lies the world tells us that will make us happy. It is so true. But I think one thing that really has helped me is an understanding of free agency and boy have I learned more about the importance of that. My H's love for me would mean nothing if he was "forced". He has to be free to make the choice, just as I was free to make the choices and mistakes I made. I have decided free agency sucks sometimes, but I have such a deepened appreciation of why it is so important.

About my Plan A. I definitely agree. It is the best way to handle this situation. In fact it is a good way to live your life. Have you read "Bonds That Make Us Free"? It is a great book. I was fortunate to read it and "Seven Habits" early in this whole thing. Luckily it got me Plan Aing before I ever heard of MB. Anyway SS, I hope you are doing well. I haven't been posting too much or reading alot so I'm not sure how you are doing. Thanks again for your kind words of encouragement. They are always appreciated.

Sharon

I did Plan A for a year. (pre-marriage and post-marriage) Basically, I think I got to the place where you are. You sound like you are better than I was, but I knew that I was at that turning point where it was about me and my happiness now and I grew indifferent. I think my WH must have felt the energy shift because with NOTHING being said, he fell to rock bottom - Dec. 1st..... He sent me text messages and wrote me letters about hurting as much as I was hurting and begging me to love him. Telling me that he wanted to let them go and that I was his life and he would die without me. I was seriously beginning my steps for Plan B. I felt that I had done a good Plan A and that it was about my healing now. And I knew that I could not do Plan B unless I was willing to let him go completely because he may not return.

Sounds like you are in a great place - even though the best place would be not to have had to experience this.

Good luck.
P.S. I grew up in Utah. (Copperton)

You are so funny, you're last comment got me laughing.
You should have seen me grin when I typed it. Thought it would do that, and .....I'm still grinning.

Where abouts do you live?
I'm in Dixie. That's another one that most won't get.

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate them. One of the things I worry about is that many here have no one to tell them when they are doing well. It's hard to do it right from a keyboard, that is, say things that will help, but not go to far.

........ I wouldn't change anything good or bad that has happened because it has put me where I am now. Surrounded by friends, true ones, loving my family, and basically happy. I have been blessed abundantly, even if I have screwed up alot.
We all screw up a lot, but if you keep working on it, you won't fail. Failure is when you quit.

I don't know about my H's church comment, but if your last sentence means what I think it means, then you understand the implications and reasons why someone would want to end a marriage over "church".
I can't understand why they would, but I understand why they would say it. It's called the "Blame Game." I feel better if I can blame someone else for my problems. Yes that sentence means what you think. I have known others that used this excuse, but it is just that, an excuse, and more convenient to use than other ones that everyone in the family would know are false.

I can't read his mind either, but I do know in my heart I was trying to do the best for my family, it backfired in a way, but I don't regret trying. My church therapist said at the outset of this that it would come down to the war between truth and lies. Would my H be able to learn, accept and live the truth or listen to the lies the world tells us that will make us happy.
I feel so bad for him. You too, but you have a chance. Right now, he has no chance, and won't unless he can change. His best chance for change was while still with you, and now he is gone.

Have you read "Bonds That Make Us Free"? It is a great book. I was fortunate to read it and "Seven Habits" early in this whole thing. Luckily it got me Plan Aing before I ever heard of MB.

I have not read "Bonds", but I have "Seven Habits" It is interesting that DR Harley, and Steven Covey both picked up on the love bank theory. It's just a true principal that they have explained and taught in a way that helps people grasp it better. I think they are both very smart people - I couldn't have done what they have done, but they are just explaining something that is always true. If you have ever seen the "Marriage and family relations." manual for the Sunday school class of the same name, it teaches about meeting needs, and many of the same things as 7 Habits, and HNHN. That's one of the reasons I was so impressed when I found MB. Some things are almost word for word the same.

Anyway SS, I hope you are doing well. I haven't been posting too much or reading alot so I'm not sure how you are doing. I did not come to MB because of infidelity, I came for ideas to improve things. Started reading in late January or early February of 2002. I knew what I needed to do, but now how to do it. My problem was love busters. I still need work, but things are much better. One of the reasons I don't have a thread and post for myself is that I really don't have a reason to do so. I read every few days and I learn much. Mostly it reminds me to look after my W and her needs. It is hard to get lax with all this staring you in the face each week.

Don't worry I won't come knocking on your door, just general info. I'm in SLC. I am not too afraid of that, actually, I hope to someday meet everyone I converse with on MB. Probably it will not be in this life. My W doesn't post but she sometimes reads, and I keep her up on what I do. I don't ever want her to wonder. We have lots of friends, relatives in SLC, and I lived in Orem for a time, but I am a native of ST G.

We have not really heard any news from you for a while. I suspect that means nothing has changed. If I was working two jobs, and taking care of FIL, I wouldn't have time to post much either. I have many reasons for being here, some of which I have already mentioned. The other is that I have been given help, so now it's my turn.
BTW, I am, glad you purchased a gift for your H, it means you are still living the Golden Rule. It would be nice if everyone would do that.

Hope all your kids are happy ( and well) next week, and that you get at least some rest.
SS

Thanks, Only U and SS,

I only have a second I'm back to work in a few minutes. I really appreciate your posts to me and I will get back to you later.

Things are going good BTW. Hope for you both also.

Sharon

Hi,

I'm able to write now. OnlyUcan, thanks. I only wish my outcome was as yours. I just don't think it is going to happen for me. I think it is too late. I am glad you are in recovery and hope it is going well. I know from reading here it can be a rough road.

For the longest time I thought that H was going to come home. I really did. But, I guess he is gone. It's sad but I have accepted it.

Anyway, thanks.

Still seeking, I really enjoyed your post. I wish I had found MB before things got bad.

The church thing really hurts. My H knew I wanted to go to the Temple. I guess I may have made him feel badly in my striving, and perhaps it did become too much for him. I didn't push him but he must have felt a lot of pressure to measure up. I guess I could have handled things differently. But, he never said anything. He kept it all inside till I guess it got to be too much. Through prayer and fasting I have come to a deep understanding of what is going on, but it doesn't make things any easier. You still have to work through it all. There are no shortcuts. In a way I know that this is a turning point in my H's life. This is something that had to happen. Maybe not necessarily in this way but it had to happen. He had to KNOW for himself. About our marriage, about who he is, about EVERYTHING. I hope he learns what he needs to learn to be happy. If it brings us back together....... It is sad when we realize that we can't MAKE someone else happy. It makes me appreciate in a way I never thought possible of the love our Savior had for us when he chose the plan of Free Agency. About why we are here and why we have to have happiness and pain to learn.

Ick, now I'm all teary-eyed. I hate this sometimes. Think that is why I don't post too much anymore.

As far as what is going on in my life. I had a really good job interview last week. I hope it turns out. It would be an answer to lots of prayers. FIL and MIL are both in a nursing home at this point so they are getting the therapy and help they need which is good because me and my SIL couldn't do what needed to be done. H is not coming home for the holidays. He is waiting to see what happens with his folks. We will probably have to move them and clean out their apt. So he wants to come when that happens. My family is good but don't like me working so much, which is the biggest reason for wanting the above mentioned job. I am getting better day by day. I have strayed a little from the straight and narrow but I'm trying. My lawyer e-mailed today and is ready to file the papers that I KNOW H won't sign so I need to talk to my lawyer and see what is going on. So for the most part, life is as usual, things are starting to become NORMAL again, I am happy and having FUN again. H has been more communicative lately. But I think it is just the holidays. I am sure when they are over it will be back to business and "When is this D going to be taken care of" IF and that is a BIG IF I was a real optimistic "glass half full" type of person, I would ALMOST think that MAYBE he is starting to come around, but I'm not.

Well that's about it for me. How are you?

Sharon

Sharon,
Just wanted to say hello and let you know I've been reading your thread here and there all week. Never time or privacy here to respond lately.

My prayers are with you, it sure is rough at times, isn't it. I'll post more later this weekend, hopefully.

Take care,
H_P

Think that is why I don't post too much anymore.

I think yo u don't post much anymore because you have done things right, you have worked through your issues, and you don't need as much help.

As far as what is going on in my life. I had a really good job interview last week. I hope it turns out.
I say this a lot, and I hope it doesn't sound trite, but I'll pray for you. I hope it works out too !

I am getting better day by day. I have strayed a little from the straight and narrow but I'm trying.

Probably I worry about that more than anyting else with those who are left to them selves to cope when their spouse ( who should be helping) is the one causing the pain. Are you happy with how you are doing? Can you avoid the same mistake - whatever it was?

I believe you will make it if you don't quit, and keep trying. I really will pray for you.
I am doing well, because I am still trying and haven't quit yet myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Happy St Patrick's Day.

SS

Wait, was that supposed to be Labor day?
(SS looks around.) Where did I put that callendar??

<small>[ December 21, 2002, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Thanks H_P and SS,

H_P I will drop by your thread and see how you are. Thanks for thinking of me. I think of you too. I understand the privacy issue. I have to post when no one is here or they get mad at me being online.

S.S, thanks for your confidence in me. I am not going to quit. I just have some behaviors I need to address. It is like I am finding out who I am all over again. When you build your life around a person and certain expectations about what is going to happen in your life and they suddenly change it's hard to know who you are anymore. You are not the same person. I used to think of myself in wife/mother terms. Now suddenly I am single mom/single person. It is weird being out there in the world without my H to protect me. One of the worst behavoirs though is flirting. I used to be a big time flirt before marriage and have supressed it all these 24 yrs. It has come back with a vengence. I need to be careful. I am not a teenager anymore. It is weird that I have noticed myself and H revert back to behavoirs we had when single. I guess we have to learn to be 'grown up' and single. My brother was divorced after being married 14 yrs. in the Temple and he recently remarried. He cautioned me about physical stuff in dating. Yipes!!!! It's hard to imagine having to worry about that. But I do.
Anyway have a happy arbor day.

Sharon