feeling very numb right now...

OM arrived in the country tuesday... W had told me he was coming to stay so I knew but it's still...

WW and I had already planned a night together on the Tues - Christmas party / dinner with a friend. When she told me OM was arriving the same day I asked her if she still wanted to go out / stay over. She said she would - if that was still ok with me - and that OM would have to fend for himself.

We had a very good evening - although it was wierd 'cos apart from everything else the Wednesday was our 6th anniversary...

I had got her a card - reminding her of our first day out together six years ago - the fun things / silly stories etc etc. Sent her a bunch of flowers the next day. I had tried to buy some on the tuesday - didn't want her thinking I was trying to make a point about sending them when OM was there - but got to the florist too late.

She seemed really pleased with the card, flowers etc... but not even so much as a card, a note or anything from her. I guess I am more suprised than hurt - though god knows why given all the suprises I have had in the last 12 months. Does the six years we had mean so little that even a note would be too much? Those of you who have read my story will know that we have a very close and honest R and that she knows that we can't work on our M until OM is out of the picture.

Funny - the more I think about this the more I think part of her chose to have an A so that we couldn't try again until/if she was ready. And why she chose to have an A with someone who was/is in many senses unavailable as he lives abroad, has not long left college etc.

We had swapped cars and she popped over this evening to swap back and to drop off some things I had asked her to look out. She gave me a hug and asked me how I was - I just shrugged (like doh! what did she expect??). Couldn't even bring myself to ask why no card etc. Didn't want to get into it as just too numb and it would probably have been an LB anyway.

So - so what? I don't know - just needed to post and write all this stuff down.

Thanks for listening.

Bowd

I am so very sorry to hear of your upset. I can't imagine how it must feel to be "celebrating" your anniversary with OM turning up at the same time. That you still did everything you did shows how strong you are.

I think your WW probably didn't know what to do, so did nothing. Today, I bought a Christmas card for H. I normally get him one with "Husband" on, but just know that won't sit well with him, so I got "Someone Special". That will probably be wrong too.

It's very hard even when you're trying to do the right thing, let alone if like your WW you're all over the place. She is in a very selfish place at the moment, and I hope that she may come to her senses soon.

Take care and thinking of you in cold north London.

Lisa

Thanks Lisa. I know that you are right and I'm sure it was a case of her probably feeling it would be hypocritical to give me a card the day he was turning up - just still weird <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Anyway - rather than sitting around all weekend moping, I'm up to the smoke today on business and then staying with an old friend (male - don't worry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) til Sunday. A large group of us are getting together at his house for a Christmas Curry evening on Saturday - which I know W is annoyed to be missing - my best man is over from Spain for the weekend. So I'm going to go just try and have a bit of time out.

Hope all is ok with you - I'll be back to check up on Sunday.

Bowd

You have a brilliant time - get all curried out, and a few beers I suspect <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I think you're very wise to keep busy whilst OM is here, and good if she's pissed off to be missing out - her choice isn't it.

I'm off to my Mum's for the weekend - first Stansted for H, East Sussex for cat (the one that got lost) and then Somerset - a fair bit of driving. At least I get to see where she is.

Have a great time, really enjoy yourself, you deserve it.

Best wishes from grey north London

Lisa

Hi Lisa,

Hope your weekend was a real lift despite all the driving - I know East Sussex to West country route and it is a long way.

How did you guess about the beers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Had a good weekend in London and then saw another very dear friend for a great roast lunch today. Finally home and ready for an early night. Lots of present wrapping to do over the next couple of nights to keep me busy - OM leaves on Wednesday so not too long to go...

Actually what I can't wait to find out - though will not be bringing it straight up is how she has felt with OM here this time. Whether she has actually taken him to meet any of her friends - or kept him in the cupboard? You're right - it is her choice and it's sort of why I told her all about what i was going to be doing - to show I wasn't going to sit around moping all of the time and to show her what her life would be like with OM.

Truth be told I don't think she will commit to OM for an awfully long time - if ever. Trouble is she may of course just choose not to choose...

Keep smiling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[edited cos I pressed submit by mistake - doh!

<small>[ December 15, 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: bowd ]</small>

Bowd
Not farmiliar with your story but just try to hang on and do the best you can. I know you are tired and numb and that is not a good combonation but please do try to enjoy yourself at the party, and maybe talk to you best man. He stood up for you in your marriage, perhaps you can talk to him a little bit.

Just wanted to tell you that you are in our thoughts today
Zoey

Your wife sounds like quite a little cakewoman.
Why should she choose when she has two men fighting over her? I think you did the right thing going out and having a good time and showing her that you will move on if she refuses to commit. Remember a choice not to choose is in fact a choice. I cannot imagine how you must feel on your anniversary with the OM staying with her in your home. Remember she is not the only one who has choices here. Good Luck.

Zoey, Bryanp,

thanks for the messages. Bryan - you are right that no choice is a choice. And absolutely that I have a choice as well. She knows that too - lots of complicating factors and right now am going to continue in Plan A and working on me.

However the first session I had with SteveH I realised that I at least needed to work out how I would plan B if / when it came to needing to.

Thanks again

Hi B,
you already know that you are a better man for your willingness to try. I hope it works for you, and that you can stand the pain until it does. Probably not a lot I can do for you right now, but I am still praying for you. I know that going and doing things doesn't take away all the pain, but it is better than sitting around feeling sorry.

I have a great deal of respect for the love you are extending to her even after all she has done. I hope she comes to know how much it takes to do what you are doing and that she "gets it" and comes home. I believe you will have some great chances with her on your trip, hope you can make it to that time.

SS

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Isn't Manu Chao the lead singer from Mano Negra? Excellent group, got the CD. I'm impressed.

N

StillSeeking - thanks again for your support. It means so much, and yes I believe I will have a chance to work on things during the trip - only 8 days to go <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am going to take things slowly though - we have 3 weeks - as I'm guessing that seeing OM will have increased her confusion again, whether it has gone well, not or a mixture of the two.

Baby steps I think they're called <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Nick
he is - although he has done 3 solo albums since leaving Mano Negra - that song is from his solo album "Proxima Estacion, Esperanza" - a great album IMHO, although tied up with a lot of feelings as W was first one to hear it... this time last year when she was away sailing and wondering about our M. But no, it wasn't the OMs, thank God!

You can order it from amazon.co.uk. Got tickets to see him live in Brixton as a suprise for W back in July this year - he was superb.

Update - cos I still feel like I just need to post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Been a very strange few days contact wise. Email after the weekend my W said "missed you" but phone conversations have been very minimal. OK - I didn't expect them to be anything else whilst OM is with her - and to be fair whenever I am with her she doesn't call him and if he calls she doesn't speak to him so it works both ways. But...

... even emails have been little comment apart from the above. She came over tonight to swap cars.

quick aside
she has a 2 seater so can't fit all OM's stuff into her car to take him to the airport tomorrow. Now I know some people will say I am enabling the A by letting her borrow my car but to be honest I don't see that. If I said "no" (and she always asks rather than expects) it would just be a hollow points scoring victory in my mind. After all it's not like he couldn't get a cab but what's the point? It's not (I don't believe) going to make their R more likely to fail just been seen as vindictive. And besides that way I know he's definitely going! And I also get to drive my Ws car which is much more fun than mine so...

anyway back to the thread... W turns up and it's hard not to be emotional or start asking her lots of questions but I know it's not the right time so we open our Xmas cards that she has brought over, hug some and she's looking really sad and starts crying a bit...

... but I don't know if she's sad because she knows how hurt I am or... whether she is planning to hurt me more because she and OM have decided to move their R on to the next step or.... whether she is sad because she has missed me or... or what...?

So we just hug some more and she says "I've missed you", I reply the same (becuase I have - hugely) and then I walk her out to the car - and get another warm hug and a lovely kiss... which makes me feel really good because although we always kiss when we see each other it's not often like this one (if you know what I mean) and so I am happy but...

... just so unsure of everything. I don't know what is what - and I'm sure she probably doesn't either.

Oh well - what will be will be. Thanks for reading

Bowd,
ASk her.
Ask her how she is feeling, tell her how you are feeling, not the down part, but the fears you have, the love you have.

To re-connect you have to know, and she has to know.

Tell her you want to be strong but you are afraid, and hurt. Tell her you want so much to take her in your arms and never let her go but you are afraid she won't stay. Let some of it out and see if she responds.

Tell her you want her back.

If you weren't treating her well, and if she didn't love you, she would be long gone.

I think I have sympathy pains for you. I know you have to hurt, and that nothing I say can describe it. Wish I could help more.

I really believe you can make it, and I hope I am correct.
SS

StillSeeking,

thank you again - in so few words you manage to help me see where I make mistakes. I often know I have but not why and so the next time am often reluctant
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ask her how she is feeling, tell her how you are feeling, not the down part, but the fears you have, the love you have.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think too often I do tell her the down part and so she then withdraws. As for the rest I do but I think the above is (and given one of the things that led us here in the first place) so important for me to remember.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wish I could help more.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you help me so much already - thank you for your time and thoughts

Hi Bowd

What did you decide about the car? If it means nothing to you, then so be it.

I think SS has some really good advice - a wise sage! I also wonder how long you may be able to go on as you are. From what you said, I don't think your W would be thinking of making a future with OM because surely she wouldn't tell you she missed you etc. and surely she wouldn't be tactile.

Anyway, keep us posted.

Wishing you well from north London.

Lisa

Lisa - you're right. I had already decided a long time ago that things like lending the car so my W can pick up / take OM to airport and taking W to airport so she can fly to be with OM (which I've done) are neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things.

Whilst her A has hurt me and continues to hurt me I have to accept that it is her choice - and the key choice she has made is not so much to have an A but not to work at our R. I have to learn to accept that she may never chose to want to be with me again in that way - whilst continuing to hope that she does and not throwing up defences that make it hard for her to decide to try again.

At the end of the day I have to be true to me - and I don't, personally, find that actions such as refusing to loan my car help me at all - I would just end up feeling mean and spiteful. That's not to say I don't often make b1/chy remarks that I regret as soon as they leave my mouth, act in ways that I regret towards my W - because I do - but I keep trying not to.

Likely to be offline for most of the next four weeks: it's my last day at work today until the 13th Jan - hurrah!

Doing the friends and family bit this weekend and then off on holiday for 3 whole weeks - just me and the love of my life - on Christmas Eve <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you to everyone who has helped me and wishing everyone here a Christmas that brings some peace and a New Year that brings hope for a stronger future.

Hey Bowd

You're human after all then!!!! It's inevitable that the odd comment here or there will slip out when you're making such huge sacrifices because you love your W.

Whilst you are away, it will be a good time to think about what SS said and how you may be able to address some of those things. Obviously, not a good idea every day of the 3 weeks, but you'll have plenty of time to relax and hopefully be in situations condusive to talk about your M.

I think what you say about not being able to force our S's choices is such a true thing - whatever your situation. Even though I am the FWS, I cannot even influence my H currently. Only he can decide when he wants to decide what he wants to do. That is a HUGE thing to actually understand and accept - he has to choose whether or not he wants to be in our M. Perhaps when I can accept that it may become a little easier.

I shall miss you around the next few weeks. Pretty much I am staying in London, but may run off to Mothers if needs be. There are loads of home chores I want to catch up with, and be able to get in the gym regularly to burn off those mince pies!

Bowd, I hope that your holiday is everything and more that you wish for, that you have a very happy Christmas and a much better 2003.

Lisa