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#1045236 12/14/02 10:56 AM
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First...I recently found out that a really wonderful couple I know is currently seperated and in the midst of divorce. Rumour has it ONE of them left...but the grapevine doesn't quite know which one...and it's possibly (and probably) for another person.

I'm not a snoop...I could care less about getting all the dirt and helping to feed the rumour mill...but I really really care that this couple that appeared so strong and loving in the eyes of this community is being ripped apart, most likely from infidelity. W

ould I be crossing a line if I simply sent them a letter extending my sympathys? I know they know H and I were seperated...I did some computer work and the H was very understanding and wished me the best. Now I get a better idea why...I'm sure things were probly brewing for them at that time too. I'm NOT sure they know we got back together and are happier than ever.

I'd really like to share a condensed version of our story, along with an invitation to check out the MB site and a small list of some of the most helpful books we found. What do you think? Too intrusive??

The other question I have is about a friendship that has been under some strain for quite some time. It's actually a couple H and I have been friends with for years. They haven't been the most appreciative friends in the world (somewhat of a moochy couple), but we did really enjoy their company and I KNOW they never intended on being that way. I think we enabled it quite a bit.

Anyway, after H and I seperated they kind of shut both of us out of their lives...but mostly me. It hurt for a while, but I also understand they position they felt put in.

We've gotten together with them a few times since we've been back together and we did have a decent time...but we notice that they just have distanced themselves a lot. I'm not sure if there's a specific reason, or if it's because we AREN'T enabling a one sided relationship anymore, or if stuff is just going on in their life right now.

Looking back, and in dealing with my issue of criticalness, I know I probly made it hard for the W to be close to me at times. Ironically I see a lot of myself in her! She's hard to get close to too, and I often felt like she looked down at me...like I could just never be good enough. After really looking at that...I'd be willing to bet there were times she felt the same way about me.

I'm wondering what to do with this. Part of me wants to write a letter letting them know that we do really care about them and even if our friendship will never be the same, that we wish only the best for them. And I'd like to apologize for my part in the breakdown of our friendship...without laying any blame at their feet.

We saw them the other night at a local school play. I get the feeling the H really wants the relationship back...I think he misses my H...but she pretty much snubbed me the whole time.

I'll admit, I'm still very hurt and a little angry at some of the treatment I accepted from them over the years...yet I'm torn because I really like them too.

I dunno...would you just give them their space and let them come forward if they want to spend time with us...or would you write a letter just kind of opening the door for communication? I dont' want to do the age old conflict avoidance I'm so used to.

Suggestions????

#1045237 12/14/02 11:23 AM
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h4f,

I'd go ahead and send the letter for a couple of reasons:

1. You can share your experiences and let them know that even though they are emotionally estranged and seperated, things can and do change. You and H are a shining example of that. Also, let them know there are places they can turn to (like MB) to find people in the same situation who can offer advice, support and compassion with discretion.

2. It will let them know you and H care. They may be feeling isolated and affraid to reach out for help. Even if it doesn't help them reconcile, it may help you and H re-establish your friendship with them. No one has enough good friends.

Getting divorced sucks, but sometimes it's unavoidable. The question is finding out if it truly IS unavoidable. I think far too often people choose D because it seems to be the easy or only solution, only to find out later that it wasn't or that they could have done more to right the ship. Regret is a terrible thing to live with. I truly believe if someone, a friend, a family member, whoever, had intervened on my W's behalf, we would not be where we are today, but as far as I know, everyone close to her took a "hands off" approach. Don't be guilty of that. Give someone the chance to benefit from the lessons and knowledge you learned the hard way.

sad dad

<small>[ December 14, 2002, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

#1045238 12/14/02 11:27 AM
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OOOPS, I probly should have had two seperate posts. The first couple...are aquaintances...we're not really close to them, but we know them well, if you know what I mean? I DO care that they're going through all this, and I do think that an appropriatly worded letter wouldn't hurt...and I think I will do that.

The second couple was referring to a couple we've been friends with for many years...practically since we've been married. They're going through adoption right now and her sister and brother in law are seperated...so they're "stuff" they would be going through isn't marital related...that I know of.

#1045239 12/14/02 11:29 AM
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Hope,
I don't see anything wrong with extending your friendship...to her. If your H wants to do the same with him, that's great. I would not advise getting into any opposite sex support. You & your H can together talk to either of them. Or invite them as a couple.

We have friends that had us over to their house, we went out as a fourseome, times when we were separated. They are our closest, dearest friends now and I absolutely CHERISH them for the love they showed us.

And...sometimes blank, blind despair looks a lot like snubbing, I could be wrong of course.

#1045240 12/14/02 11:34 AM
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As I said, whether they are good friends or just acquaintances, offer to help. They'll either appreciate it or resent it. So what. Many people here at MB that I don't know from Adam have been a great help to me, you for one. Some people don't want help, but others do but just don't know where to turn. Nudge them in the right direction.

sad dad

#1045241 12/14/02 12:18 PM
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I'm going to have to edit my first post I think. The two couples listed are DIFFERENT COUPLES.

We only know the first couple as people in the community. I have done some computer work for them, and we both know them because we farm and go to similiar functions.

The SECOND couple were the ones we were friends with....

Anyway, I am in the process of writing a letter to the couple, but yes...any support with either be from me to her, or from us to him.

The question on the second couple I haven't really gotten answered! Do I write to her and apologize for past mistakes on my part.....or should we just wait it out and see what happens...or does the fact that they really have never treated me all that respectfully mean that we should just forget their friendship and move on in life without them??? I'm still lost as to what to do there.

#1045242 12/14/02 12:30 PM
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Ok, here's a rough draft of the letter...let me know your impression and what editing might be good. THANKS!!

H & W,

I realize, sadly, that this letter will most likely only reach one of you since you two are apparently currently separated. I have also heard that you may already be preceding with divorce. I hope that’s not true, but if it is I felt compelled to share some things with you.

First and foremost my sympathies for what you all are going through. From personal experience we know it is hell. I know, H, that you spoke to me about our separation (and I believe we were divorcing at the time). I appreciated what you said very much. It’s my hope that I am not overstepping myself by sending this letter and that I might just offer some words to the two of you as well. I’m not sure if you knew, but just a couple of weeks before our divorce was to be final (December of last year), Tony and I reconciled. We’re still married, a family, and happier than ever.

That would not, however, have been the case if we had jumped quickly in to divorce. I highly doubt we would have come back together if it had actually finalized. We had been separated for over 6 months before we finally started moving forward, and we moved at such a snails pace that we had time to let the resentments and anger subside a little. Even though H and I were living our lives as if we were not going to be a couple in the future, with time we started to really come to appreciate what the other actually brought to our life, instead of just seeing all the stuff they didn’t. I say we…but mostly I mean me. I can be quite stubborn and hard headed, and I was blinded by my anger, hurt, and feelings I believed I had for someone else.

H and I saw two counselors. The first one actually did us more harm than good. The second one was great for us individually, but she practically talked us out of our marriage. It was her opinion that we were just too different. I will say though, if she hadn’t of done such a good job helping me become more emotionally independent, I probably wouldn’t have ever had the courage to disagree with her and come back to my marriage. She meant well for both of us, she was just biased. So if you’ve tried counselors and it hasn’t worked for you, don’t think it’s any indication that you just don’t work together. You’ve probably just had the wrong “help”. If you haven’t even tried a counselor then PLEASE atleast try. A marriage is just WORTH ALL EFFORTS, both for yourselves and your children.

The most help, and best information, we’ve had has been from the Marriage Builders website (www.marriagebuilders.com) and from their books (and some books recommended there by others). I have most of the books they list there. If you’re interested in reading any of them, they’re yours, just let me know. They have books on tape, if you don’t have the time to sit down and digest a whole book. They are also the leading expert in infidelity. It’s a common epidemic, unfortunately, and hardly ANY counselors out there really understand the dynamics of it. I know ours just swept it out of the way as over and done with. So many people think that their marital problems are so different and unique from anyone elses – we certainly did – but if you read, or visit the forums there, you’ll see some definite reoccurring dynamics and similarities. The forums are where people go to talk about their situations and get help from others who have been there. It’s not like chatting, and the “whole world” doesn’t “know your stuff”. You get an alias (a screen name) and you can write and correspond with others. The help and information I received there has been invaluable. People really DO understand, and others really have been there done that. They also offer phone counseling consultations that are said to blow the socks off of any counselors anyone else has ever had actual in-office counseling with. Probly because they don’t drag things out forever…they cut right to the chase and get you on your way to making things better, one way or another.

We found that many friends and family distanced themselves somewhat while things were going on with H and I. They also didn’t understand many things because they HADN’T been in our shoes before. If either of you feel that too and ever need someone to talk to who HAS been there and does understand, even if you are certain things won’t change, feel free to call ANY TIME. Or if the Marriage Builders site sounds of interest to you, but you don’t know your way around and want some guidance, I’d be happy to help you around.

Some of the best books I have read:

Torn Asunder by Dave Carder – Recovering from Extramarital Affairs
His Needs Her Needs, and Love Busters by Willard F Harley (Marriage Builders material)
Relationship Rescue by Phil McGraw

I would guess you are probably both tired and just want to get over all this and on with life. But realize that the very same dynamics that led to the disinigration of your marriage will follow you in to the next relationship. And because of children you will still be dealing with your ex for the rest of your life. All the hurt you can’t find a way to get past now, will still be present then. As difficult and painful as it is to reconstruct a marriage…it’s still easier than not dealing with it and still being party to the pain the rest of your lives.

It takes commitment from two to really have recovery and a good marriage, but it only takes one person willing to make some changes and try something a different way to make a huge difference and get you on the right path, instead of the one your on. If EITHER of you has any wish to remain a family or any love left at all, please do something about it and don’t let the divorce speed forth.

Anyway, again, I hope I haven’t overstepped myself by sending you this letter. I hope, if nothing else, I can offer you some hope. We went through similar times, and many many other people go through this as well…and many of us HAVE made it. It’s my greatest wish that you will too.

Sincerely,

FWW


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