Well, there is a 24 hr cancellation thing... so I told him we needed to go... he seems really into avoidance of reality... the drinking gives that away right?

He does not want to talk about it.. we argued some in sessions 1-3, today I will not argue.

Finally time to get into the meat of things, hopefully... he is still coming, at least he is not backing out.

But wanted to do a fondue dinner at his place, which is something we used to love.. tempting, but I want some reality.

thanks , opinions, ideas.. welcome.

Honey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Honey,

Couldn't you do both? Go to MC together, then fondue afterwards?

Thanks... I offered.. my parents are keeping our 2 kids, and don't want it to be too late.. but still.. he sd he didn't have time.. I think he was trying to cop out of the appt! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

On my way to it now! thanks, H

It went fairly well tonight, but I am not getting my hopes up.

As for me, I am leaving what he does up to him and God.

I can control how I act, and what I do.

I can choose not to fight or pick at him.

I can choose to show him loving and kind behaviors and for my actions to be synonomous with saving the Marriage... that is all I can do.

The ball is in his court.

He actually sd he loves me, that is on rare occassion...

he says he doesn't want to take for granted my willingness to work on the M... b/c he thinks maybe I will eventually throw up my hands and just sign divorce papers... since he has taken my effofts for granted...

he is still fogged, and thought that maybe the two of us could just live in seperate houses next door to each other... that would work he says... he needs his space and doesn't want anyone mad at him...

Well I can not be mad..> I can be forgiving and kind... I need some resolution, but I can wiat for that in counseilng with time.

I am tired and will go for now.

It was optimistic and hopeful.. although others in our lives are still encouraging a break up... my parents, and possibly his... although my parents are watching the kids during the sessions... my dad told me today he did not see J changing EVER... that is hard to hear... but it was in a crisis situation where I desperately needed some money and would of had it... IF My husband at least pd child support required by law.

Thanks, H

Honey - at least he went - that is still good.. Did he ever get that job??? You have to stay strong if this is what you want - to save the marriage - it maybe hard - but don't settle for less than what you want - living next door - maybe be nice - for lets say neighbors - but not a loving couple - tell him thanks for the offer - but you want and need and mostly Deserve More !!

Thanks MAw... I know, isn't that a joke? sure I will remarry and so will he and we will live next door and be crazy? Right?

I ignored him and let him babble.. that is what it is ... babble. I am being loving and kind.

Only one person can be in a fight.

Of course I won't settle for that, why are we in Marriage Counseling, to live like that? The counselor and I both had it babbling at us with that last comment... it is like he didn't want me to get any great ideas and think we could work it out, right?

Thanks for cking in Maw.. it is a long hard road.. but only God and jim can make Jim better... all my snide comments in the world won't make it right... I'm kind of going back to that concept I learned in grade school.. If I can't say something nice , say nothing at all.

The counselor suggested we try to keep things on an even keel and talk about problems and resolutions in counseling, not on our own for now.

i am hopeful, but it is a long road with the fogged alien.. who used to be completely and totally in love with me...

Thanks again, H

Your commment about living next door struck a chord with me because my W told me a couple of months ago that the best for our S is for us to live next door to each other where both backyard doors are open and he can come and go as he pleases. Yeah, right, gazing at my crystal ball I can see it now, my ex-W married to the ex-OM and while he is away at work she's having an affair with me and I become the OM. Yikes! No thanks.

But seriously where did your H get this idea?

Thanks.

UC- It comes from the Wayward Spouse alien handbook 101- babble talk.

Hugs to you, pay no attention to her nonsense. Give her time, she might come around. Give her love and kindness even in her fog. Do all you can do to make it right.

hugs, H

Hi Honey,

IMHO your H's guilt is starting to catch up with his actions. This can be the first step towards his recovery. Again, IMHO, the worst thing you can do is show acceptance for his current behavior(it is not acceptable yet). It will probably stop the positive momentum.

Keep doing what you are...like you said - you only control your actions, feelings, etc.

Keep your boundaries in place. They are reasonable.

Gib

Hi Maw,

Realized I didn't answer you regarding the job for J... He sd to me yesterday he has another interview and he was excited about it and that there had been tons of applicants and he got an interview...k eep your fingers crossed.. he did say he wished he was working, and seemed sorry I do work so hard.... at least I read that in body langauge.

Counselor seems to think that he needs admiration and love and when I don't give it to him...e ven if he is messing up.. he wants to run away.

Counselor compared this to him having problem overeating and me picking at him and picking at him... Well I do need to lose a few pounds, was he thinking of me? Who knows? But I agreed with counselor it makes you want to go eat a bowl of icecream or at least get away from that person who is picking at you...

... which J did to me, he ran away, IMHO, because he wasn't being enough... and I was an angry wife over that...

Anyway..

Gibby, Thanks for cking in.. I appreciate and really listen to you.. b/c of your experience with alcoholism. I appreciate your post.

I am not telling him his behavior is ok, and I think filing for child support and letting them be the bad guys enforcing his legal responsibilities instead of me was an excellent move...

He angers everytime I ask for money, so let them do it.

I am pondering and thinking on not letting his behavior be oK.

I am not trying to, and tonight we are actually going to tree decorate at my house with the boys... I am excited and so is he to come over.. I hope he will show up sober.

Hugs, Honey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Honey,
I'm glad you went to your counseling appointment, a meal or a fun time isn't a good substitute right now. You have to think long-range. It's good you recognized an evening of fondue wasn't going to be a step toward meeting your goal.

Jim's idea of living next door...reminded me of the start of our 4th separation, when my H decided he'd live in the downstairs and I'd live on the upstairs main floor, we'd both be there for the kids, but not accountable to each other. It drove me nuts! A real separation was better, because then I didn't know when he was out and if he came home. I'm not sure next door would be much better, for those kinds of things.

I think you understand what he means though, don't you? That he does want to be a part of your life, but not be an accountable, responsible, committed husband...still a fence-sitter. A nicer fence-sitter though than last year.

He's got a lot of work to do on himself, and with his underlying alcoholism, try to remember that you are thinking long-range. Even a dozen counseling sessions aren't going to get through all the issues the 2 of you need to, and especially the help Jim needs.

You sound good, Honey. I think you handled this well.

I hope & pray he's sober tonight too. Have a plan of action, or repsonse, ready if he isn't.

Honey,

I am glad that he has an interview that is awesome - I will keep my fingers crossed.. Like you said applying legally for the child support was the best thing for the situation - it made him realize that in the eyes of the law - not only your eyes for a change that he wasn't living up to his end of the obligations - and now he knows he must change even if it is a little bit at a time - he is at least making an effort..... I believe what Lor - says is true - you are going to need alot of sessions - don't get discouraged if it doesn't happen overnight - you actually sound much stronger - kind of like when I used to read your post I could always like see you stomping your feet in outrage (and believe me I can relate) but now you seem to be handling this much better - though you still aren't happy with the situation - you are somewhat sticking up for yourself - and stop with the weight thing - that should be a nonissue.... as far as I am concerned - Yesterday I got the reason I cheated was because you forced me to because we only had the same old boring sex all of the time... Now this was not true but you know even if it was who cares - when you are married you should love unconditionally - fat, skinny, rich poor sick healthy - You know - Good Luck... Mimi

Thanks Lor and Maw:

I am having a tired afternoon...my eye is actually twitching at spreadsheets and stress I think is part of this...

I may get to go home a little early and spiff up for him, as domestic needs is very important to him...

I am so tired...

I do think J is starting to worry I won't be around forever, and I am actually acting like I won't be to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Yea!

No more doormating for me.

I can see clearer right now, how I was being too much of a doormat...

Anyway- I think I have to stand up for myself all the way around in this life.. including here in a somewhat sexist oil and gas atmosphere... at work... can you tell it's one of those days?

Thanks for being here and being supportive. It is difficult with the fog.

I am not allowing quite a bit of stuff he would of gotten before... or this time last yr for sure.

J says things are way better than this time last yr. DUH? No A right now..

Anyway, more later.

Thanks for the posts, H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Stood up for myself again today... with sexist boss, and also ws.

WSpouse on way over... I informed him he would need to treat me loving and kind if he comes over, not just polite or 'nice' as they say....

Wish me luck. Will ck in later.

Honey

PS- Still a bit upset about what sexist boss did at work... basically he took his cookies and left and refused to deal with the issue at hand and left.... tomorrow will be another day, I did tell him I would go above him on how I think his sexist behavior is coming at me....

Thanks, H

ps again.. just got off the phone with my dad and told him j is coming to help us with our tree.. my dad informed me it is a waste of time...

Thanks DAD....

H

<small>[ December 17, 2002, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

I talked to him on the phone after he got home.. first he called to thank me for letting him come over and I messed up after some talk got to that of him making restitution and being sorry, well sorry first but then restitution... for what he has done.

Ws says if the people he had a's with are bad people, whores, etc.- then... that paints him in a bad light, and he is a good person.... the only reason he had these a's is that I abused him. UGH. Sure I made mistakes, everyone does something abusive at one time or another... well maybe not, but I did a bit, but when I go back and look at it,... I am not this Abuser he has painted me to be.

it is true, I guess I realize now.. anytime the A or his mistake is brought up.... he wants to defend himself and bash me.. Sure we both made mistakes... prob. didn't help that he was under the influence a little when he got here last night and more by the time he called me.. Ugh.

I can only control me. I have a new day and I am not going to be contacting him, I have had enough.... of sorts.

Just trying to talk to him... gets me in circles.. the man does not want to be truly sorry for what he has done....

He says just let it go, well I will again for now... but if this mess ever EVER gets sorted out, he will have made true apologies with restitution for the A's etc. If he can't do that, then no chance.

Also sd he is selling a dirt bike, due to his lack of money.. he bought this for older son to try to buy his love when he left and got his severence ck. Now he is selling and will give me part of the money. I think my son sd he is ok with dad selling it if dad gives all money to us.. guess what he sd.... he can give me maybe a couple of hundered.. not mentioning there has been no child support in 2 months.

The visit did go well as I was on excellent bs behvior asked nothing of him, etc.

When on the phone I sd this won't work if you cna't be sorry for the a's and make it up to me, etc.... well well well.. .he couldn't take that talk.

I know the counselor sd save all that discussion for at the office. It is being saved now, but next appt is in Jan. Jan 3.

Thanks, H



thanks, H

Good Morning Honey,

Sounds like a mixed bag last night, huh? Was your H drunk or had he been drinking when he arrived? Did he drink while you were setting up the tree?

During my drinking days ( <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ), I would make an effort of 1, 2 or even 3 days without having a drink. This was a REAL effort for me (or so I thought at the time). When my wife did not notice or change her behavior towards me, I would get resentful, throw my arms up and say what the hell! The cycle then starts over again except with more resentment building up inside.

THIS WAS NOT MY W's FAULT! This was my problem. This was my problem. This was my problem. This was my problem. This was my problem.

Your H might be feeling the same thing. If he was sober (or mostly sober <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ), then he may view this as a gift to you. But in reality, it is an empty present because there is no real effort to change.

I think I'm rambling now...your post brought back memories of how I felt at times back then. Guess I didn't kill that brain cell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !

I guess you LBed a little last night about the feeling remorse and making amends thing, but you are dealing with a sick person. You're allowed...

IMHO, you should try and limit judgemental statements like that to your H. I do not think it will help him face his reality. Natural consequences will do that.

Stay Strong!

Gib

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Gibby1 ]</small>

honey you ae sounding stronger and stronger and good for you! I have one question though and it's about the quote here. what kind of restitution do you want or expect?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>He says just let it go, well I will again for now... but if this mess ever EVER gets sorted out, he will have made true apologies with restitution for the A's etc. If he can't do that, then no chance.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hi and thanks for the posts.... Gibby and Fool to Beleive...hey that sounds like what I feel like today.. fool to believe.

He was mostly sober when he arrived, except for the offer of nailing a decoration to the piano... hehe, most of his interactions were loving , kind and nice, et c. he did not stay long, but maybe that was even ok, a little hurt when he left before the tree was done, but he prob. stayed 1-2 hours... so ok... baby steps...

He wouldn't eat with us, but then again he likes to eat around 10pm... I've forgotten that annoying habit, and how it bugs me... I like family meals.... ;(

Anyway, he had alcohol on the breath at the visit, when he went home he called me and we had ok conversation, but I think somehow- by me, I brought up his needing to be sorry for the a...

He says Oh yea, ow number one was a mistake, now number 2, the maid..... that does not speak english, etc. .. is a ni ce person with morals, etc. and she didn't even know we were married.. discussion completely digresses when he defends her... etc. I got a bit ugly and even used the whor+ word.... Sad, I want to let it go... but I need him to be sorry... for what he did... he has sd it, but when he starts saying these were nice people, the ows and they were nice to him... blah blah blah... I say, OH YEA, nice, ruining our relationship... blah blah... then he says.. it is all your fault I strayed you abused me for 10 yrs... fog fog blame blame... blah blah.

I am tired of it. I do forgive- but what I mean by restitution if we are to work this out... is

being truly sorry and wanting to make it up to me... one way is working on our marriage, which he is doing to a degree... but in my book, that means lets look at this, be sorry- both of us , truly sorry for our mistakes, and he want to make things better btwn us...

He seems to feel that way, but not want to say it. He says saying ow is a bad person, makes him a bad person.. and it is not bad for one to commit adultery when abused by ones spouse, therefore he has to go into how I abused him for yrs.. WRONG....

I say to him, have you forgotten what we had? His answer is usually NO... but you still abused me... blah blah....

Ok dear.

I have to go into work now... I just got back from dentist and was stopping by... I will ck in as I can later today and for sure tonight. My job is stressful now so may not ck in today guys.. dont want to get in trouble for being on mb at work.

Hugs and thanks for the advice.. I will go back to cushy footing b/c I don't want to fight. We can talk this out in counseling, if he will continue going.

I will let natural consequences, show him what he is losing.. not me lecturing, thanks Gibby.

Honey