</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ConfusedJack:
<strong>Chaz,

I would guess that I fall into the slut category according to you but I was/am still dealing with alot of pain and the cheating helped me deal with that. Jack</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is a difference between someone who thinks its acceptible to have side action and someone who doesnt. i dont get to decide where you fall thats between you and your wife.

if i believed what the BS's on this post wrote, most of them are married to people who simply think its ok. I just dont believe that they would be so diligent in their efforts to stay married to them if they REALLY believed that.

My WS said it didnt' start out to be Physical. But they were meeting emotional needs as both were having bad time in M. Then it became a PA. The weird part is he was, according to her, taking time to pay attention to her in emails and by phone. In fact, one thing that hurts is I read where she'd tell him what time she would be calling and to pick up the phone. Obviously he was ignoring my calls and I had great need to that emotional support he was giving away. Anyhow, he had since admitted it was all a fantasy. She was not younger than I, same age, and not nearly as attractive. But she was upbeat and made him happy to be talking to and around when they met twice in another state for PA. He has since admitted all the problems we were having due to deep depression I went through for 5 yrs, due to another A he had years before, was the cause of his seeking A. He admitted he had given up on us and was going to divorce anyway. However, we're in recovery now and doing much better. And she's out of the picture. At first he refused to say anything bad about her, still does to some extent. But he knew her in HIgh school years before, like 43 yrs before! They thought they would recapture all that zing they had in youth, but found out it's gone and not returning. YEH! Good that he found out, it was something he had to do to wake himselfl up, but bad for the pain it has caused me and the feelings that change forever as far as I'm concerned. Shortly after ending it, supposedly he saw a counselor at work. Said he told the counselor that he would have been miserable if he'd given me up for her. Supposedly our sex life is far better too than with her. But, he was in the fantasy world and not thinking clearly. We had had some bad years of ups and downs, arguing a lot, fighting, and me leaving many times. Oh well, as long as he's truthful when he says he never would have given me up and sorry for the hurt. Seems to regret it all and would change it if he could. It sounds good to me, but the hard part is knowing if it's sincere. But hey,he's still with me so that must count for something. Right? He could leave anytime he wanted now. But says never going anywhere without me again. And she also wrote me that she would never have contact with him ever again. I think she feels used too. I hope so! The anger in me is still enough to want her to suffer her own consequences, I did tell her husband and sent him all the emails so she'd have to answer to him and work out her problems there. Not just leave us to work out the problem and have all the hurts. I think I did the right thing and I'd do it again. Of course, H kicked her out at first, but they reconciled. The risk was if mine would run to her aid. I think she called him mad about me, and he saw an atty,but didn't go through with it. Now he says he'd never go to her if she was divorced, widowed, single no matter how. Says we're climbing the mountain together for the rest of our lives. I do see how he was unhappy as I was too. But infidelity is not the solution ever! Nor justified. He should have put as much effort into our relationship and I'd have healed long ago. Instead of giving her what I needed. fulfilling her EN's and feeling she needed him. BULL S---. I had far greater need than her!And I've made it clear I expect the respect, and the EN's be met. Otherwise, leave! So, he seems to be out of the fog and remorseful. But the fantasy could hit anyone I suppose. What they don't realize at the time is they are not changing issues, just partners. The grass on the other side has weeds too! It's easy to feel up and happy if all you're doing in the A is going on vacations, with no responsibilities. But when they live together, she has to cook, do laundry, iron, pay bills and meet the everday problems.and this applies to all WS's, it's a different story. now they're right back in reality! And it losed it's flavor. LOL At least you know the demon you live with, The S, as opposed to starting over with someone new. Stupidly, the WS's don't realize the OP has problems to and will drag new baggage into their relationship as well.
Many reasons why they cheat. But some are just addicted and immoral. Without God as head of a M, it isn't going to be a happy one is my belief. God, then the couple, then kids and so forth on down. In that order! There has to be a center in all this to make it work. For me at least.
Hope this helps some understand. LouLou

The WS finds the affair brings a reflected sense of self that is both flattering and addicting.

"Gee ... this other person thinks I'm *all that AND a bag of chips* .... I like being with someone with whom I feel so special."

Those with a weak sense of their own character fall prey to this type of phoney reflection of who they are.

The affair makes them like themselves, for awhile ... then, once the affair is exposed to the world ... their self-image begins to tarnish and lose some sparkle. In order to maintain the affair ... the participants need to make each other feel good about themselves.

"I am wonderful because YOU say I am."

But, the affair relationship involves covering up truths ... and that is a recipe for failure.... in both an affair relationship or a marriage relationship.

A major part of recovery is uncovering truths about the marriage and about the individuals in the marriage. If the WS, or the BS is too weak (or for whatever reason) is incapable of facing the truth ... then the relationship will increase the level of suckage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pep,

Very true words.

ConfusedJack: You put it really well in words. I totally understood what you said.

Chaz: SORRY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I didn't mean this thread to be a trigger. I just got a bit tired of what the books say and this and that says and wanted what to know what everyone's heart and gut say.

Thanks everyone
Zoey

I would love to know why peole cheat.....
Just found out my husband cheated on me...and now he wants to work it out...but how do I trust him again...It is so fresh, the pain...I can not stop crying,
I thought our life was good... I ws happy and I thought he was...he has the nerve to tell me he was..he does not know why he did it...
I always tried to be a good wife...and now I am qanting to know what I did so wrong to make him want someone else......I am sorry for going on like this...
cindy

Chaz, I am a BS, and also was blindsided about my WS, he never felt cheating was moral, or something one should do until they disengaged from relationship. Well, all those beliefs went out the door in Oct/02. Could have knocked me over with a feather. Did I think he was capable of it, Yep, because I have watched him slowly disengage from life by making life an albatross around his neck. Did I try having communication with him to get us past that, and also to get him to view life a little different? Yep. But he let tomorrow, the future, money be what made up the man he became which was not a happy man, in fact, a man that had to escape real life as soon as he could. He picked an A to make this happen and by golly is riding it all the way to the max. He had choices he could make, but he chose the most destructive one for himself and family and the MOW's family. He blamed me and was angry with me because how HE chose to view life, he resented that I did not and still do not look at life as one big burden. Now he is in his fantasy life which will bring on the same results since he chooses to look on the exterior and not from within to change the man he chooses to be. So I can understand your seeing red. There are no rational reasons why one chooses to have affairs, it's weaknessess that maybe YOU don't have in your character. But one thing is for sure, if anyone should have had an affair, it would have been me, because that's how deaf WS chose to be in listening to me on creating a helathy relationship. I am and probably will be too darn stubborn to have not tried, but I was not going to be his smoking gun and have one!!! And he also chose a married woman, huh, let's make it more complicated for ourselves when we are sabatoging our lives!! He has to change, and SOME people choose not to, and so we go on learning from what we experience, does'nt make it anymore glorious now does it? Sorry for my rambling, thought I needed to address Chaz as he was so upset.

Honest to God Chaz if you lived in Queens you'd be my xMM. Your story is his story.

I'd never seen a man read to many self help books, be so frustrated and stuck. I loved him, wanted to help him and our friendship became something more. Maybe that's why 18 months after the end of a 10 year affair I can't bring myself to regret it.

I'm not saying that the A was right. But it filled a need in both of us.

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Neesha:
Could have knocked me over with a feather. Did I think he was capable of it, Yep, because I have watched him slowly disengage from life

Do you not see how contradictory that is? I saw it coming a mile away but poor poor me you could have knocked me over with a feather.

bull

Did I try having communication with him to get us past that, and also to get him to view life a little different? Yep. But he let tomorrow, the future, money be what made up the man he became which was not a happy man, in fact, a man that had to escape real life as soon as he could.

there are people that are emotionally disfunctional, had it been your child, would you have done it the same way? wouldnt you have intervened called a doctor or a psycologist someone who could have made a difference?

but you choose to see only how bad it was for you and watched him desolve.

So I can understand your seeing red. There are no rational reasons why one chooses to have affairs, it's weaknessess that maybe YOU don't have in your character.

Its no secret that it is weakness that allows someone to make the decision to have an A, what is in question however is what and who causes and contributes to the weakness. its one thing to see that the one person you are supposed to love and cherish for ever is in pain, its quite another to excuse yourself from the situation as if you have nothing to do with how life is going for that person.

I am assuming that you would never accept that by having an Affair you husband didnt affect you or how life was going for you in the least, you should just get over it right? your logic if flawed.

But one thing is for sure, if anyone should have had an affair, it would have been me, because that's how deaf WS chose to be in listening to me on creating a helathy relationship. I am and probably will be too darn stubborn to have not tried,

so you were too stubborn and selfish to recognize the you had a part in the reality of the marriage, even as dysfunctional as it seemed to you, you were there participating and creating the environment, and it sounds as though when it got uncomfortable or bad from your perspective you abandoned him and are now complaining that he did the same.

but I was not going to be his smoking gun and have one!!! And he also chose a married woman, huh, let's make it more complicated for ourselves when we are sabatoging our lives!!

when your all f'ed up you dont make good decisions.

He has to change, and SOME people choose not to, and so we go on learning from what we experience,

how much more sympathy and understanding i could have for you if only you would say "We have to change" but you absolve yourself of any responsibility in the life of your WS how nice.

does'nt make it anymore glorious now does it? Sorry for my rambling, thought I needed to address Chaz as he was so upset.

What exactly what your goal in addressing me?

what i heard was that you watched as your H self destructed and did nothing but act surprised when he succeeded.

sorry i must have missed the point

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Cindy,

I am sorry you are in so much pain. I think I am similar to your husband, except I know why I cheated.

There are many areas of my marriage that I really like. I do love my wife. But, I was not happy about the sexual/romantic part of our relationship. I finally gave up and just got my sex and romance from other women. I did this for about 10 years before I got caught. At that point it was such a part of my life that it took me a while to really get that it hurt my wife.

One of the things that I think hurt her the most was that she thinks I am very attractive physically. She even keeps her "mean jack" shirtless photo of me in her wallet. She was proud that I cared to stay in shape for her. The discovery shattered that illusion. She concluded that I did not care if she was attracted to me. That was not true. I do care. I care deeply, it just seemed like a lost cause and I certainly wasn;t going to ask her. I didn't want to hear her say she found be unattractive.
The point of my rambling anecdote is that your husband probably does know why he cheated. He may be afraid to tell you why.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cindy31:
<strong>I would love to know why peole cheat.....
Just found out my husband cheated on me...and now he wants to work it out...but how do I trust him again...It is so fresh, the pain...I can not stop crying,
I thought our life was good... I ws happy and I thought he was...he has the nerve to tell me he was..he does not know why he did it...
I always tried to be a good wife...and now I am qanting to know what I did so wrong to make him want someone else......I am sorry for going on like this...
cindy</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: ConfusedJack ]</small>

Chaz, I'm sorry that you have never read any of my threads as you would then perhaps not judge me as you are doing by this one thread. So, I will not defend what I said in the thread because it would be moot. Sorry you misunderstood me and what I was trying to convey, I guess I misunderstood your point in your thread that I responded too. Take Care

Chaz, I'm sorry that you have never read any of my threads as you would then perhaps not judge me as you are doing by this one thread. So, I will not defend what I said in the thread because it would be moot. Sorry you misunderstood me and what I was trying to convey, I guess I misunderstood your point in your thread that I responded too. Take Care

Pure selfishness. Plain and simple. With a heaping dose of self pity added for flaver.
"My S won't listen to me, Doesn't say the wonderful things to me, he/she used to say, Doesn't pay attention to me, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH"

So why the heck didn't you just get a divorce? Chaz? I'll tell you why, selfishness that's why. Me, me, me. Forget that the BS is out working 80 hours a week to give you a good life. Forget that the BS has daily issues that aren't getting addressed as well. It's self pity mode and I'm going to do something about it, "hey this OP thinks I am the cats meow, he/she is the answer to my problems". Please!

If things are so bad then get a divorce. To do less is selfishness pure and simple. Ok, now play the fear card.

Sorry if I seem a bit upset. I say again get a divorce rather than have an A. But don't put the blame for your actions totally on the BS not hearing you. If you had an A that is something you alone chose to do.

jd

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jdmac1:
<strong>Sorry if I seem a bit upset. I say again get a divorce rather than have an A. But don't put the blame for your actions totally on the BS not hearing you. If you had an A that is something you alone chose to do.

jd</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">everyone has their own story JD, i hear how you feel, but when a person is stripped of all control and power, there is not making a decision. there is no will, there is no proper judgment.

I agree that had i had an ounce of personal strength (well i probably wouldnt have allowed things to get so bad in the marriage) I would have gotten a divorce. but the truth is i didnt have the strength to speak loudly enough to order a darn hamburger at MC D's let alone a voice that would have led me to a lawyer.

but then people who have never given themselves away completly dont ever get that.

its not so much why they cheat, its why the marriage is in such a state that it doesnt seem to matter to the cheater.

isnt that really the point?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Neesha:
<strong>Chaz, I'm sorry that you have never read any of my threads as you would then perhaps not judge me as you are doing by this one thread. So, I will not defend what I said in the thread because it would be moot. Sorry you misunderstood me and what I was trying to convey, I guess I misunderstood your point in your thread that I responded too. Take Care</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">neesha,

I am not completely without sympathy, I get that your in a completly terrible position.

Ive been disabled (Work accident that changed my life, was sure id walk right agian ever!) and ive felt abandoned.

you moved into a situation where there was no commitment (Marriage) and now your getting the shaft. I am very saddened by your predictament, my issue is that you seem to believe that you wernt there effecting the outcome.

if you want to try and have and outcome that is different you might try the priciples layed out here like maybe Plan A why not start a post that outlines your plan. the two post you have started while informative dont really explain what you intend to do to save your ??? relationship? infact they tend to lead me to believe that your just interested in where your gonna live now!

if you want to save the relationship this might be a great place to be, if not, i am not sure what help it will be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">its not so much why they cheat, its why the marriage is in such a state that it doesnt seem to matter to the cheater.

isnt that really the point? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes but why is it that the marriage always seems to be in such a state only to the cheater? Time and again it is the same, these affairs come out of the blue for the BS. Most have absolutely no idea that the marriage is bad enough that something like this could happen. If it is as you say, why is that?

I agree that some BS have blinders on and will forever refuse to remove them. But an A isn't the answer to removing them. Is it?

jd

My Personal Belief why my husband cheated:

Because he could. Because he spent 20+ years on the Musician circuit having women whenever he wanted. Because to this day, I don't think he thinks he has done anything wrong. So he repeats.

Because he is selfish and weak minded. Because I dissapointed him and didn't meet his most important emotional needs, so he EASILY and repeatedly had them met outside our marriage.

Gawd, this is painful.

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Chaz, Yes, I have been respectful and loving to WS, that did not work as he said he neither wanted to speak to me or look at me, I had to respect that but also set boundaries when he endangered my life, the pets and family members. He was already planning on moving out, so he moved out Nov. 30. He has been over 2 times to get things, and was distant, blaming, and disrespectful, I was not. So, I sent him email that kept him current with what mail he had of importance. He does not acknowledge any emails. So I then sent a plan B type letter stating what I have learned from this experience, how I have grown and that I understand my part of the demise of our relationship. I also stated that I loved him and should he choose that he needed and wanted me in his life, then he can reach out and I would be there if he was sincere in rebuilding something new but not what has been that lead to all this. My point to all this was simply this, in my previous threads, you can do all you can in trying to resolve issues but it takes 2 to work it thru, and I feel that my WS used this A to escape and not work it thru, we did the MB questionares a week before I caught him, and he knew what I wanted for "we" not just me. He chose a different route and I have to respect that but I do not have to let it consume me.

Well, at the risk of being flamed, unless someone has been in the cheater's shoes, it is impossible to TRULY understand what it's like.

I have been there, and I'm telling you that FOR ME, it was so out of my character, so against everything I believed, that I *still* cannot reconcile the fact that I did it! Witness the fact that once I slept with the idiot I wanted to die, never did it again, lost 100 pounds (with help from my then-H's revenge affairs that didn't help me too much), went directly into therapy, blah, blah, blah...

All I'm saying is that a BS can *try* to get into the WS's headspace (I know, because until I lowered myself to cheating as my then-H had, I thought I understood)... but you will never know the torment, the hell, the pain... that a repentant WS feels.

It's that way with a lot of life, isn't it?

Anyone want to talk about how it feels to be called to the school because your eight year old tried to hang himself? I bet not, because unless you've been there (I have) then you really can't understand. You can empathise, but, you can't know what I, as his mother, went through in my head and heart.

IMHO, all cheating is an act of selfishness.

The cause or root of the NEED to be selfish can vary widely.

I am convinced that the root of my XW's selfishness was the loss of our son and her struggle to deal with her pain. She sought the nearest port in a storm, but didn't consider me acceptable for reasons I can only attribute to her perception of my unavailability - for the same grieving reasons - or other attributes, unexplained to me, that took me off her list.

Once her pain was soothed, she continued her affair, divorced me, and married OM because she HAD to to "legitimize" the whole sordid situation.