A few of you have asked me to give you an update. Haven't been posting much of my story lately because every day seems different, yet discouragingly nonprogressive. Don't know where to begin, so I'll just start with the usual vent from my point of view....

We are still in nowheresville at 7 months. Our progress has been next to nothing and it makes me very upset. My H has been difficult in making any effort to reclaim our M. He may tell you otherwise...He says he loves me... read books in the beginning,...is willing to go to MC etc.

He has been, in my opinion, very depressed. It got to a point where he was incapable of functioning and put off many things. Even laundry overwhelmed him. Plus, NO sex drive (or maybe not into that with me anymore), sleeps too much, doesn't eat enough, cries, has wished he was dead etc. If we even tried to discuss our issues or I would express my needs, he would take it as a personal attack. I was just telling him how I feet - no confrontation!

He lost his job (due to the fog he was in from the A). So, we couldn't afford to continue his therapy. So, 4 weeks ago he had to get a physical, so I asked him to talk to the Dr about this. He didn't. I finally made an appt for him. He was prescribed meds (which don't effect sex drive, by the way). It's been 5 days, and I don't expect an overnight change. The thing is, that he doesn't see it as an issue and I don't really think this in the answer. I just wanted him to get out of the funk in hopes it does allow us to progress.

I am going to make another appt for MC for after the holidays and see if we can try again.

Here's some things that really bother me:

- He told me he still thinks of her. What's up with that? Said he had the need to talk to his "only friend" about this, meaning me. Like this is what I want to talk to my H after 7 months.

- He has not done sh*t to show any sort of expression of love, passion or romance to me. I have expressed many times that I could use some sort of gesture of reassurance that makes me feel like he is delighted to have me in his life and wants to make a go of it. Something, anything that says he cares and wants us to get closer. He'll say "But I tell you I love you all the time....I hug you...I can't wait to see you...blah, blah, blah" I say, "Well you did those things before and I thought you meant it."

Am I asking too much? It's not like I expected these things before as much, but now that he has blown it, I feel he has a responsibility to do something to help repair the damage. I have spelled out a few things just to set his noggin' in the right frame of mind: simple things like flowers, make dinner plans, have candles and a bath drawn etc. Nothing too overwhelming, if you ask me (Meanwhile MadDad is prancing around some lovely resort in a G-string).

And, I have been real proud of myself (as a award-winning conflict avoider) at spelling out my needs, how I feel, why I feel the way I do, etc. I have told him straight out that I am thinking we should seperate because I just can't go on like this anymore. I want and deserve more. You would think that these statements would make him do something! But no. It's really like we are civil roomates or good buddies, but nothing more. This only leaves me feeling like he really doesn't want to make this work.

Has anyone else experienced this or do you think I am reading him clearly, but trying not to?

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: libbystory ]</small>

Hi Libby--
I don't think I have much to suggest. I am in a similar situation though, so wanted to offer you some support. We are 2 months past NC after a three month separation.

I have posted a few times and ForeverHers especially, is good at helping me to stay patient and on the right track. I keep reminding myself that our M didn't get unhappy overnight, so it won't get better fast either. I need to keep persevering and trying to be the best person I can be. I am open with my needs as well, trying to concentrate on the ones that are the most important. I think my H is starting to realize that nothing is going to MAKE him happy but himself. The answer is not in who you are with, but in yourself.

It has been a long time for your FWH to still be in withdrawal--has he had renewed contact lately?

Hang in there--I hear you!

Wouldn't you know, just as I get around to e-mailing you, you post.

It's the depression. I'd almost bet it. He's barely functioning still--when you're broken like that it's hard to step up to the plate like you ought to. See if medication doesn't do a few Christmas miracles for you, and if not, figure out what you want to do from here and when you want to do it. But I really believe if he can rise out of the depression that things will be so much better.

Neuse.

Libby

If your H is taking meds for depression, they often take a few weeks before you can see a difference. It may take your H a little longer than that before he feels the difference. Check with the Doctor.

Something I have noticed with my H - since I have made my needs very very clear, he is still having trouble with that. He still tends to revert back to the way he was. Its a safer place for him to be. Its not b/c he doesn't want to, but more of a case of - that's the way we were, that's what he knows. Its comfortable for him to be his old self. Change is difficult for both of us.

It has taken me a long time to get to the point where I truly "want" to put "everything" back into my marriage. It does take time.

Something you said struck me - that your H needs to talk to his only friend. Do you understand why he says this? I am not trying to hurt your feelings, but it may give you some insight if you ask him.

Hang in there.

MTB

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: M T B ]</small>

Thanks Anne
Your support it very helpful. I actually do have very good reason to suspect that he has contacted her and that has set him back. As a matter of fact, I forgot to mention that....I found through my keystroke spy software, which he has discovered and deletes the files now. But, he forgot to delete one from last Monday...It appears there was a falling out with someone (it only shows his keystrokes, so I have no idea who he is talking to). He was shocked that whoever it was said F* U* to him and went on to say that it was a very sad way to say goodbye etc. So, this incident adds to my disheartenment.

Nuese
Just read your email. Loved your damn story and it brought me to tears. You should post it here. Maybe I should by the book for my H xmas.

MTB
I wasn't very clear in my post....I am his only friend and he wanted me to hear his woes. I edited my post, so that it makes more sense.

Hey Lib,

Glad to see you reaching out into the abyss.

I see it didn't take your H long to have A after you were M. Do you think getting M after living together changes things as far as expectations go? I've known people in the same boat who had similar experiences.One guy at work has been living with his GF for 8 yrs now,when anyone asks him when he's going to marry his reply is"Why ruin a perfectly good relationship?"I know it's necessary when it comes to benefits etc.But I'm curious as to what impact it has on the relationship.

md

libby,
i am so glad you finally posted!
i know that we have swapped stories and we share so many similarities.
i went through everything emotional you are going through with your h.
where could i start?
firstly.. the depression.... do some research on depression on the net.. i found some great tips on coping with a depressed person, and being a depressed person. some of the highlights i remember vividly????
1. be nice to yourself. do enjoyable things... massage, movies, bunjy jumping... whatever turns your crank!
2. make no life decisions. no moving, leaving, divorce, house buying... nada!
3. excercise. a little of this does us all a world of good... maybe even a little walk rogether
4. eat something. we usually buy what we eat at each meal.. but during this time i started stocking the house with healthy food and healthy snacks for those peckish moments. it was hard for both of us to eat, so i made small healthy meals, or made enough for 2 dinners.
5. be nice to yourself. this is the same as number 1.. but it bears repeating.
6. wait. get sleep, read books (self help and novelty stuff to make your mind go elsewhere) rest.
7. life changes a bit. some things arent really important... housework slide so that i had time just to be with h... sometimes just sitting there on the laptop while he studied. put your h's needs before all that other crap. it can wait- YES IT CAN!

so those are some of the things i did and encouraged him to do. i am also on anti-depressants, so i share the website with him.

next i told him that the anti depressants were going to take at least 6-8 weeks to start kicking in. so during that time we were going to be friends for each other. we put the affair talk on the back burner, i made no demands on him. we were just nice to each other, and tried to be responsive to each other. sex was pretty absent. when we did engage, i usually felt that we were finally reconnecting, but he usually told me afterwards that it meant nothing to him. so i imposed a no-sex rule for self-protection.

my h too was moody... so moody. he cried, was intraverted, quiet, focussed only on work and study. he could find time to be with his friends but not with me. things were really awful. he confessed so many times his love for ow, confessed being unsure of which way his heart was taking him. he couldn't even tell me half the time what he was feeling or thinking.
i told him that i needed reassurance, hugs, i-love-you's, kisses, hand holding etc too... i was actually baffled one day that he said he was doing all that for a month, and that i hadn't noticed... i still don't know which of us is right on that one!!!

but as the drugs kicked in, we both began feeling better. h went to a couple therapists too. he read books, he opened up to a friend finally. he started to think logically again, he started trying to figure out his life. it is hard to describe, because it's not that you feel drugged out, or different than you ever felt before, BUT you dont feel insane, the voices in your head start to quiet down, you dont feel so emotional, you can think about things more logically.... and this all comes slowly.

so be patient, be kind.
you have to do what is right for yourself at this time as well. you may be at the end of your rope. but know that not only is your h in affairyland, he is also in depression. two very different things. he cannot -really cannot- deal with you and the affair till he gets out of the depression. anytime you need to talk, or if you need calrification about what we went through.. please post or email or im me!!! anytime.

huge hugs to you my friend,
hopeful.now

ps.. i am sure there is more, if i think of anything i will return!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I don't get it MD. I certainly didn't expect things to change. I mean what's to change? He's seen all there is to see....We were perfectly happy and having a great time. He knew I loved and adored him, had a great passionate sex life, laughed a lot, have been through many good and bad times..... I don't know why a celebration of all this and a ring would change anything. Nothing did changed till he had an A.

I find it all about immaturity and am having a difficult time understanding this whole thing myself.

((((Libby))))

It just seems to be getting worse and worse, doesn't it? I really hope the meds help pull him out of this funk...I know it's tearing you apart.

Reading your follow-up post rang some bells with me. Post D-Day #1 and Pre D-Day #2, my H also confided in me that he still wasn't happy and still had not gotten her "out of his head". And yes, on D-Day #2 I found out that he had just resumed contact with her. A bad sign IMO...

Give these meds some time to work...like Neuse said, think about what your next plan of action is if he doesn't start "shaping up"...and please, please take care of yourself.

Call me if you need me...I'll be gone next week but you can reach me on my cell if you need to talk.

Hang in there...you're a mighty fine (and strong) woman!

Agnes

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by libbystory:
<strong>

I find it all about immaturity and am having a difficult time understanding this whole thing myself.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes libby, you hit the nail on the head. it is very selfish and immature and we dont understand.
i am not one that advocates the mars-venus theory, but face it, communication is hard between most husbands and wives. if only he had communicated what he was looking for or missing in the m, you could have started down a healthier path. if only we didnt stuff our feelings and problems. if only you could express your fears and desires and know that he really understands... we would all be better off.
this is the way he is dealing with his problem. an affair. being selfish. thinking only of his needs, not yours, not the health of your marriage.

my unsolicited advice is to firstly wait on the meds.
secondly? its a hard pill to swallow, but you need to find a way to communicate with him. i think by now you know that everything about the bs trying to win back the ws is backwards. but the truth is that if you want your marriage, it is up to you to fight for it. you need to find a way to say i am listening, and i need you to trust me and open up to me. its the hardest thing i have ever done.
one day my h wrote me a horrible email about all the things he was doing for us, and all the things i was missing, and how i really didn't get him. after i responded vehemently with tears and anger, a friend advised me to write another response... i apologised to him for my previous response. i told him i understood what he was trying to express to me, i thanked him for trying so hard, i encouraged him to forgive me for being so nearsighted. it was so hard to write. i swallowed my pride and hit send... well, to my amazement he wrote back, he was happy, i had finally listened to him without being defensive (who me? defensive???) it inspired conversation, and because i accepted what he was saying, he no longer had a fight with me.. I WAS AGREEING WITH HIM!

hope this makes sense... it's really nutty.
it goes without saying that you have to be sincere.. this was not a trick or a ploy, just a lesson from a friend in communicating.

hopeful.now

Thanks hopeful....I know, I know I gotta give it some time.

The Dr. said this RX acts particularly fast, so I have that to be grateful for. I guess I am inpatient because I have been asking him to do this for so long and have been living with this miserable existence (drama) for a considerable amount of time. To top it off, H still won't admit that the A is a symptom of his depression. "The Dr said it could be just this time of year." Well, you didn't tell the Dr all you have been up to these past few months! So you're saying you consciously set out to F* U* our marriage. I know --cheap shot.

I have been treated for depression and would grab my Prozac first out of my burning home (with my cat in the other hand -- the fighters can grab my H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). Went through it many years ago and know what it's all about. I have been very good about not saying "snap out of it." I know that "Wow, I suddenly feel normal" feeling. That "So this is how everybody else is capable of functioning" feeling. I know he doesn't realize it on the surface.

So, it's 4:30 p.m. and H just came home from work 15 mins ago and is sound asleep, snoring on the couch! Nice to see you dear! Hmmmmm patience, take care of yourself Libby....go draw a bath for yourself Libby....

Thanks guys! Damn it I am a good person and I like myself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I too don't like venus-mars philosophies that make us self fullfilled in how we behave, but true enough, when it comes to our points of view in this M, we have two different perspectives.

You are so right. I find his point of view soooo way different than mine, that I have to understand that it IS his point of view and that he is not being just ridiculous. Guess I am guilty of what I said he was. (geezzz, you got any smaller pills? - gulp).

Agnes/Nuese - What worries me most is that I do have my next plan of action. Set to go with a pre-approved mortgage loan and am making a mental list of "prospects." But I won't act that fast. It's really just an exercise in maintaining my sanity and I guess knowing that I have options.

Agnes - Let's definitly do an outing after the holidays!

hehehehe libby.. you still gots humour... it cant be all bad!!!

i am glad/not glad that you know about depression. i know you have been struggling a long time... my 9 months was excruciating. i wanted to shout to the world "look at me, look what i am going through, look what i put up with" well, unfortunately, only you other crazy people on the boards know, but at least it is a start. venting is healthy... vent on us rather than your h. let him sleep... have that bath, add some bubbles (in a glass preferably <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) and light some candles, soft music..... treat yourself right girl. you are special, and wonderful, and your h is damn lucky to have you. let all his vocal spewage roll of your back and down that drain! we love you, and you have helped me so much in the past.. i am sorry you are in this predicament now.

but watch out.. when those pills kick in he is fair game... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and if communication doesnt work, i always keep a frypan handy for a swift cuff upside the head! hehehehe

take care. enjoy that bath... i am suddenly in the mood for bubbles myself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by libbystory:
<strong>Agnes/Nuese - What worries me most is that I do have my next plan of action. Set to go with a pre-approved mortgage loan and am making a mental list of "prospects." But I won't act that fast. It's really just an exercise in maintaining my sanity and I guess knowing that I have options.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMO, that should not worry you...I think you're exactly right in that it's good to know your options. You will know if and when the time is right. Meanwhile...you've got us to fall back on (and I'm actually close enough to USE a frying pan if needed!)!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Agnes - Let's definitly do an outing after the holidays</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely girlfriend!

I'll be thinking about ya over the holidays...saying a little prayer for you.

A

I'll wait until those pills, hopefully, make a difference, but just in case....Get your Caphlon (will settle for nothing lighter) ready!

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: libbystory ]</small>

Libby,

I'm with Agnes. I think you absolutely have to have your alternative plan of action in place! Just because you have options doesn't mean you plan to act on them right now and having options allows you to feel more secure. You feeling more secure keeps you from clinging to him like he's the last upright portion of the Titanic. Sooooo . . . having your alternative plan is actually very good for your marriage.

My H used to fall asleep on the couch all the time too. I think it was 50% sleep apnea problems (so he genuinely was tired) and 50% depression. So now he still falls asleep on the couch, but not as often. I used to do all sorts of things to wake him up--cough, clatter around in the kitchen, fuss at him that he wouldn't sleep that night, jiggle the sofa then act like I hadn't . . . It hurt that I seemed to induce narcolepsy in my husband, that he was so uninterested in me that he couldn't even stay awake to spend a little time with me. The truth, though, was not that I was uninteresting, but that life was.

It's odd to hear you talking about all of this. As much as I've learned over the past year that I am not alone in all of this, that in fact everything I've been through is something that has occured in other lives over and over and over again, sometimes it's startling to hear someone describe events in their life and have the picture look exactly like the picture in my own living room. I am constantly both saddened and overjoyed that I am not unique.

Neuse

Libby,

One more thing--I think if I had it to do all over again that I wouldn't sit around for the giant couch nap. You probably are already way ahead of me on this one, but I think I would try to set aside my anger and hurt and as rationally as possible, leave the room and go do something for me. It was difficult for me to do that when I was in the middle of it, because if he woke up, he was always hurt by what he perceived as my anger (whether I was angry with him or not). I was not at that point far enough along in my stuff to be able to step back and say, "no, I'm not angry at you. I just have other things that I'd like to be doing since you need to sleep. When you are awake, I'd love to hang out and spend time with you." Even if you are miserable the whole time you are "doing something for you," make sure he thinks you are having a wonderful time. For my H, I think one of the biggest things I was able to do to help him was when I began to step away from his despair. The therapist suggested to me (in one of our private sessions), that when he was being the Duke of Despair, that I needed to try walking away a good bit of the time. She told me that it was ok for me to assure him that I loved him, and in the same breath tell him that it hurt me too much to see him this way and that I was going to go do something else right then. She was right, though it scared me to death to just leave him when he felt so blue. (Felt like I was abandoning him.) As it turns out, he was caring the burden of his own melancholy plus the burden of what his melancholy was doing to me. By walking away, I began to take away some of his worry about me.

I suspect you already are able to do some of this, but I thought I'd share anyway, in case it gives you some ideas for making things easier on you.

Neuse.

Thanks Nuese.

I'm not so much angry about his behavior as I am sad at this time that things could be better. You know there's that holiday season thing, when you wish all was warm and happy at home. Plus we got love all around us, as his two kids are planning their weddings and my best freind is getting married in Jan. So, naturally, I wish I had an H who was happy and sharing in all this enjoyment as a couple etc.

I am pretty much detached from his depression. I know I have no control over it. I am not clingy at all. I don't want anything to do with him most the time because he does bring me down. Before his A, we were practically inseparable -- couldn't wait to see each other after we were apart. Now we're just coexisting -- blah. I have made plans with our friends a few times and excluded him and told him it's because he's just not that great to be around lately. They feel the tension as well and are aware of his depressions. I need time to be around people who make me feel good, feel good about themselves and are fun. Just wish my H could join us as well (or rejoin us).

Libby,

That's kind of where I thought you were. I'm glad you're able to detach some. I wasn't able to at all. There's another thread somewhere on here about spouse depression. I haven't had time to read it, but maybe there's something good there.

I do think medication will help. Wouldn't that be a great Christmas gift?

Neuse.

Hey Neuse,I don't think clanging around,and making lots of noise while your old man is trying to get some sleep is very cool!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (Just kidding. I know you were worried about him.)

Libby, as far as Depression goes it's not uncommon after a WS ends an A. I went through the blues myself, mostly from guilt.You just got to get him out of the house:Dress up and go somewhere Dinner,dancing,whatever,and do it often he'll snap out of it eventually.

md

<small>[ December 19, 2002, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: mad:dad ]</small>