Well, I won't go into detail, most of you know the situation - My WW is living separately for a month now, I am not even 2 months out from D-Day yet and we are barely talking anymore. She is actively seeing OM and having a PA.

Today, she just wrote me an email saying that she wants to get together to work on Dv paperwork. We discussed Dv right after D-Day (before I found MB) and there really are no reasons to involve lawyers as she wants nothing but her things and one of the cars. So we were going to file no-fault. Hence, basically, we fill it out, go get it notorized, sign it, and 3 months later we are divorced.

I of course don't want a Dv, but I'm not sure how to handle this. I need to respond to her somehow (I was planning to give her a call tonight) but I just feel like I have so much left to say before we do this. I also remember an e-mail from OM asking her about filing the divorce paperwork soon after D-Day. He was telling her she needed to do this so they can be free to live their "many years of happiness" together. So I'm not sure if he pressured this, or if she wants it, too.

So, I guess I'm not sure what to do. Do I just fill it out? Do I tell her I don't want to fill it out? I don't think anything I say is going to stop her from doing this, so do I pull out all stops now and just start asking all the questions I want to ask? Do I ask if OM is involved in this? Do I bring him up again after not doing it for so long (she just avoids the subject of OM completely, I suppose to make her feel better that she doesn't have to talk about PA with him that is currently going on).

This may be the end of my attempt to save my M already, and so soon after D-Day, too. I can't believe it's happening so fast. Just after not hearing about Dv at all, my W drops this bomb on me.

Help, how do I handle this when I speak to her?

ALS

Dear W,

I do not want a divorce. I am sorry that you have chosen to do so. Please do what you feel you need to do.

ALS

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

That's what I'll tell her then. I wish I wouldn't have been so quick to bring up Dv and research it after D-Day. I was upset and felt there was no way out. I think I tried using the Dv threat to wake her up, what a mistake that was. Then of course I found MB and realized I was all wrong.

After a month of no Dv talk, I thought things were going better. I am sure that telling her this is going to make her very upset, considering up until now I have told her I would cooperate and get a "mutual" no fault divorce (no lawyer fees, etc).

Question, maybe those who have been through this will know -- I'm not a rich man, she has very little money herself, not enough to pay a lawyer for divorce stuff, for sure. However, if she chooses to pursue this, can she just have all her lawyer fees charged to me?

I love my W, but if she's going to file for Dv anyway, would it not be better to do it mutually without risk of losing my finances, my house, etc? Right now, she is not asking for much of anything. She would deny infidelity in court I'd say, I have no proof other than email.

I guess what I'm thinking is, would taking this divorce from a no-fault mutual divorce to a court battle end up costing me a TON more money, possibly my house, with the same end result???

By the way, I bought the house before I met her, my name is on the deed only, and I made all payments (we have been married only 1 year though I'm not sure if that entitles her to half of the house or not, etc).

Anyone know? I still hope things may change, though I'm not sure how making things more difficult will matter, or if it will just hurt MORE. Since D-Day, making things difficult for her only seemed to LB and make her want out even more.

ALS

ALostSoul-

It sounds like this thing is moving WAY too fast for you so put the brakes on it even if you LB a little. From what I remember you've been VERY accomodating so consider backing off from that course for a little while and let her get a better idea of the ramifications of her actions....

Do you live in the US? If so, are you in a no fault state? There may be financial considerations in court if you're not in a no fault state...Does everyone know about this affair? If not, I think they should....Delay a little, tell her you need to look into some things...Trust me, you WON'T feel better in the long run if you sign before ALL avenues are explored...I did and I don't...Good luck!

Licht -

I am in a no-fault state, yes, and that's actually what I told my W we would do. Before I found MB I assumed Dv was the only option, I never wanted it but I brought it up anyway. So I guess I started this whole thing myself.

I don't know if the extra time is going to change anything, or if it's going to force her to file on her own. If she does, so be it. I'm not sure if she will. I guess I just worry that I'm making a huge mistake financially to not take the no-fault way out. At least that way, there is no court battle and I don't end up losing so much that I worked so hard for.

I mean, practically everything I own was bought by me, my W worked only 1 year and all her money went to her student loans. I owned the house before she moved in. I realize we were married for a year, and that she does deserve something, but at this point, I don't know what would happen were this to turn into a full-blown court battle. I just hope that wouldn't be a costly mistake with the same outcome: divorce.

I am just going to tell her it's moving too fast and I'm not ready to fill out any paperwork right now. I guess we'll see what happens next.

ALS

ALS, sounds like your WW hasn't known this man long enough to even consider what she's doing. However, if she is wanting Divorce, and you ask her to delay, why not sit down with her, ask her to draw up an agreement with you on settlement just in case. Then be sure to both go before a notary and both get copies. That way, if it comes down to Divorce, you'll have it all ready. My H and I did that but we've cancelled divorce and working our marriage out, He was the WS. and had talked about marrying to this ow. But says he never meant it. Ask you WW to wait. And also tell her if she decides to go through with it, to please do it together without involving ATTY. She should be reasonable about that. I would tell her just to give it a while and let's see how her A goes. And if after a bit, that is what she thinks she truly wants, then you'll not fight her. Just a suggestion, but I think while she's in the mood to just take car and her things, I'd get it in writing! Protection is a priority. Must look out for ourselves all the time. If you owned house prior to marriage,and she did not contribute to payments, etc. then she's not entitled to any thing from it. I'm in Ca. and we're a no fault state so infidelity doesn't hold water at all.You can't bring up any accusations unless it's caused mental or serious problems you can sue for.What people have before M is considered separate property also. Of course, Ca. has a law also that if you catch them, and kill them, it's justifiable homicide. LOL But not the way to go I say!
Your settlement agreement should be filed out, notarized with both of you present, because here that would need to be attached to any dissolution of marriage papers filed.
Of course, I'm pulling for you to be able to salvage the M. Sounds like she is off in fantasy land and hasn't thought this through yet!
LouLou

Hello ALS, sorry to hear things have taken this turn. Just a couple of thoughts, then I'll let the GWO's have it. This is a stretch, but is it maybe possible she is bringing up D to see what your reaction is? Didn't you post once she said she didn't have anyone to count on? Maybe she's testing the waters, to see how serious you are. Like I said, I know it's a stretch but it's just a thought. The human mind has already proven itself to be the larges inigma know to man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . Have you spoken with Cerri about this yet? What did she say if so? I would talk it over with her, if nothing else to maintain your consistency in the Plan A/B. Good luck brother.

Hi ALS, I am in the same exact boat you are. My WW basically told me she wanted a divorce in 9/02 & had the papers ready within 2 weeks.

Unlike your WS, mine has never admitted to an affair, only that "they started dating after our papers were signed". They have since moved in together in our new house which I left.

I can only say I truly know what you are going through & to stay strong. We don't know how this will end up but I know that with each passing day the pain is easier to bear.

Regards.

Well, I want to let you know that I think I NAILED the phone call. Not sure, of course, but I think I did the best I could given the situation (I had a cocktail before I called to loosen me up a bit, too...hehe)

At any rate, I had a list of talking points I wanted to bring up with her. That helped. So I did end up doing most of the talking. When she talked, I listened. But unfortunately, I woke her up -- She's been napping after work, apparently. So she sounded groggy and wasn't too talkative. But I know OM works until 7:30 every day so at least he wouldn't be there and I wouldn't have that to worry about.

So, we talked about her raise, my raise, the cat, the blanket, car insurance (I didn't make any monetary demands of her, just said we can maybe split it or something). Same with the blanket, she had said she wanted to pick up a check for it, I didn't really make any plans to give her the cash for it.

The only potential LB is that I did ask her about getting together before Christmas again, for dinner or something. She just said "When would there be time to do that?" and cited all the things she has going on, baking pies for work, etc. So she didn't seem receptive to getting together right now. Perhaps after the holidays? I don't know. She told me she felt I was "pressuring" her as far as getting together so I told her I'd stop doing that, but the invitation was open. Dunno if she'll ever take me up on that but we'll see, perhaps if OM starts to LB. I told her then to have a Merry Christmas, and tell her parents I said hello.

She also asked me if I got a Christmas tree. I told her I didn't, just ran out of time. That is true. I'm not sure why she asked that one. We used to get a tree together every year though.

I also told her I was thinking about getting a dog -- She'd always wanted us to have a dog, and I wasn't sold on the idea, though I had planned to get one together this summer. Now that the house is empty, I think a dog would be great here. So I told her I was thinking of doing that. I'm sure if I had a dog she'd want to at least see it. She is a bigtime animal lover.

I brought up my weight too -- She had told me I was losing too much weight and I have been hearing that from others. My weight is still healthy according to BMI, I just lost it fast I guess. But she did tell me she was concerned about that. A good sign I suppose that she is at least concerned about me in that regard.

I noticed that she called me "sweetie" once during the conversation, too. Just in passing, like she used to. It was nice to hear even if it was just the grogginess talking. I don't think I've heard that since D-Day.

She refused to take my cell phone home with her, I offered a couple times like her Mom asked me to, she said she is driving home in daylight and will be fine.

Now, the big one -- Cerri recommended that I don't bring up the Dv or Dv papers thing AT ALL. So I didn't. I didn't bring up the Dv papers once, and NEITHER DID SHE! Ignorance is bliss, perhaps. I'll pretend she never brought it up and see what happens next. Someone at the MB board theorized she may have even brought that up only to "test the waters" as to what I thought about Dv. Not sure if that is the case or not, but I am going to let that one alone for now.

I expect the papers will come up again, but like you recommended, I will ignore the subject as long as I can before we need to even talk about it. If it comes up point blank, I will tell her I'm not ready to fill out any divorce papers.

Finally, I had her laughing when I told her that if maybe she ended up with an extra pie at some point, she might want to leave it on my doorstep or something. I told her maybe if she plans to make 3 pies, and whoops, 4 pies suddenly are there, I would love to take one off her hands. I loved her pies. So she was laughing and, regardless of whether it gets me pie, I think it was a good thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I wanted to end the phone call on a high note, so that was time to say goodbye and tell her I'd let her get back to her nap. Figured if I left her with a smile, that was worth its weight in gold.

Anyway, that's the phone call - I'd say total time no more than 5 minutes. Still, I think I did the best I could with it. And that at least makes me feel good.

ALS

ALS ... something just popped into my head. Is there a possibility that OM sent the email from her desk without her knowledge?

ALS:

I agree. I think you did a fine job with that phone call.

Man, things happen fast on your planet!!! I'm having a hard time keeping up with your new threads!

Anyway, just a couple of comments on your original post (this time, that is!):

"So, I guess I'm not sure what to do."

Yes you are. You don't want a DV. So:

"Do I just fill it out?"

No.

"Do I tell her I don't want to fill it out?"

Yes.

"I don't think anything I say is going to stop her from doing this, so do I pull out all stops now and just start asking all the questions I want to ask?"

Not about DV.

"Do I ask if OM is involved in this?"

I don't think so, at this point. Make your conversations, or emails about YOU and HER, not even about YOUR R, if you can do that. Just let her know how you're doing, and ask how she's doing. Be loving.

"Do I bring him up again after not doing it for so long (she just avoids the subject of OM completely, I suppose to make her feel better that she doesn't have to talk about PA with him that is currently going on)."

Whatever the reason she doesn't bring him up, be glad. It'll only make you crazy, like it did me. There will be a time you'll need to talk about the A, but not now while it's in full swing. By being kind to her, you'll be the one that she'll want to be with after the excitement of living with a liar and a cheat wears off. But, in the meantime, no amount of telling her that will convince her.

I liked the part about the pies! Go for it, if she'll make you one. Regardless of how good they are or not, it's a lot better than CAKE!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hi ALS,

I think that what you wrote in the first paragraph of the 3rd post of this thread (your 2nd post) followed by what whippit said in the 2nd post of this thread (whippit's 1st post) is a good way to say "I've discovered that our marriage is NOT hopeless and I've changed my mind on rushing to divorce."

Follow up with reading and learning everything you can in the info pages while getting practical support for applying those principals to your particular situation.

WAT'S Quickstart for Betrayed Spouses was invaluable to me when time was of the essence (just find any post from WAT--WorthATry--he has a link to it in his sig line). Notable Posts were extremely helpful to me too.

Oops, I should have read all the posts before replying. I can see that you have already solved your dilemma. My apologies and best wishes for your success.

***Brief threadjack alert ... My apologies to ALS***

T-zero ... I love that Gabriel song. I think if I had to choose a favorite PG record, Security would be it. Love the new handle, BTW.

***Thank you. You may all resume helping ALS***

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

ALS check out my reply to you on my "recovery" post.

So thanks again everyone, your suggestions to stand firm, not agree to Dv, and not bring up the OM were definitely right in the mark. And once again, Cerri's counseling has proven incredible. When I told her about the Dv situation, her first suggestion was to just IGNORE it! And it seems like that was the best approach, at least for now. I must admit I was surprised my W didn't bring it up on the phone. So now the question is, how long will it be until she brings it up again?

LadyLou: I'm not sure how I can get her to work on an agreement for divorce without actually DOING the divorce...If we are going to go no-fault I just assume she is going to want to notarize and file all that stuff at once. So I think if I am leaving it up to her to file alone, we won't be able to work together on a division of assets. Is it possible to file a no-fault dv on ones own (without me signing anything) or will be be FORCED to involve a lawyer if I am not cooperating with a Dv? Anyone know?

Madly: I did consider the fact that she MIGHT be just seeing what my reaction is to Dv, but that is definitely a long shot. I have asked her on quite a few "dates" over these past weeks, dinner out, dinner at the house, a movie, etc, and she has expressed ZERO interest in that -- I'd think if she was at least trying to work on M, she would try and spend a little more time with me. But so far, at least, I was able to avoid LB by just simply NOT responding to her Dv papers question. I'll put it off as long as I can!

LostSoul28: Nice handle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I feel for you, I really do -- To have your W make these choices so fast is really disheartening. Is there grace period for the filing? Maybe she will still come around, have the papers already been filed or are they still in process? You hang in there!

Whippit - I can tell OM did NOT send the mail. Chances are he didn't know about it, though he MAY have been there when she sent it. I could tell from the way she wrote that the mail was her words. OM would not be THAT stupid to fake an email to me. He'd know that she'd find out about it. Plus she mentioned some other things we've been discussing too, not just Dv papers.

T-Zero: That's why it was such an urgent message...I had to make the phone call last night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> As always, glad I came here, all the advice I got was fantastic. You're right, I'm not ready for Dv and when it comes, I will tell her that. Like Cerri said, I will avoid the topic as long as I can, until she hits me with it directly. I again did NOT bring up OM and she didn't either. She NEVER brings him up, while I sometimes feel it's a lie all in itself to not acknowledge seeing him. For example, the question "What did you do this weekend?" really is a lie because she does things with OM but doesn't admit. But I guess you're right, hearing about him would probably just hurt more right now.

Oh, and her apple pies are to die for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

YetAgain: I wouldn't say I SOLVED it, but at least for now, I'm in the clear. Can't say I feel good about her bringing up Dv papers, but we'll see what the holidays bring. My W is still very resistant to any of my attempts to spend quality, Plan A time with her. She is spending SO much time with OM and shut me out, so my hope, more than doing a good Plan A, is that OM will LB -- Perhaps after the holidays things will change. Dunno.

Really, I don't want to put a deadline on anything, just to basically say this is all too fast and I'm not ready to Dv right now. I wish I knew if it was OM pressuring her into this. At least I hope that if I ask her WHY she wants to rush the Dv so much, I might get an honest answer. I can't see how she'd have any real reason for it, other than she may just say she has had enough time to think about it and needs to put us in the past and move on with her life. She might just say she wants closure or something like that.

One final communication from me to her will be a holiday e-card that I am going to send her tomorrow? Do I go with something a bit sappy (Miss you on Christmas type of sentiment) or just a basic, general, upbeat Merry Christmas type of card? Thoughts?

ALS

Oh, and I assume the right thing to do is to NOT bring up Dv at all or the papers, and avoid the subject unless confronted with it directly? I figure if she brings it up in email I will just ignore it again. Does that seem like the right approach? Either that or if she DOES send me a mail about the papers again, I was thinking I should suggest we get together and discuss them in person?

ALS

ALS:

Avoid the subject of DV even if she DOES bring it up directly!!!

I posted a thread for you in the Recovery Forum

Zoey

Hey All...

Just a very, very small update -- The phone rang tonight around 9 PM. It was WW on the caller ID. Second time she EVER called since the 5 weeks she has been out of the house. So I answered. I was surprised at the call.

She asked if I was around, as she wanted to pick up a computer CD for her laptop. She wants to reformat it with its operating system and she needs the CD to do that. So of course I thought wow, she's coming over! And immediately start thinking that maybe she wants to see me or talk. Of course I was wrong.

Anyway, she came in, I was having a cocktail at the time (not sure if that paints me in a very good light but oh well) and reading a relationship book. She actually let herself in (or I didn't hear her knock) and hastily walked around the house, picked up a blanket of hers then asked where the CD was. She was in a HUGE hurry.

I asked her if she wanted to stay and chat or have a drink and she immediately responded NO. She wasn't staying. We were both pleasant to one another. I've been wearing my wedding ring and I am sure she noticed that.

She took note of the framed stuff I hung on the wall and said it looked very nice. Before she left (I'd say, maybe 3 minutes after she walked in) I told her to have a safe trip home, Merry Christmas, and (maybe a mistake) offered my arms out for a hug. She reluctantly accepted and returned just a very light, quick hug. I noticed she smelled like cigarette smoke (OM is a smoker) and that hurt. Then she said "Get back to your book" and was out the door like a shot.

So, why NOW, all of a sudden, the night before she leaves for home, is it SO imperative that she do this? I know I overanalyze, but I think this is it -- I figure she needs to have her laptop working so she can dial in and chat/Instant Message with OM from her parents house while home for the next 4 days. We used to do that all the time when we were apart. I am pretty on the mark about my WW's behavior, so that is a bit disconcerting. I was hoping that her time at home would finally be a time AWAY from OM for reflection, on the contrary, now I think of her holed up in her bedroom with the computer in front of her 24/7. And I enabled it!!!

So, I guess this wasn't a visit where she really wanted to see me before Xmas or to tell me anything important. Just more "business".

Oh well, I guess I shouldn't think such negative things, but still...At least I guess I did a good Plan A thing in giving her the CD and letting her leave because she wanted to. Not sure if the hug was a good idea. I sorta feel USED now more than anything else.

I wish one of these times something positive could happen to me with this. I guess I got my hopes up that she might have a pie or a little Xmas card/gift or something for me. After seeing her tonight, I get the impression that she's definitely no closer to wanting to come home. At least my W felt she could call and come over to pick something up tonight. So maybe that is a positive step, in that she is still talking to me. I just wish it wasn't only when she WANTED something.

ALS