After over two years, I've finally given up. In spite of the sometimes mixed signals my W has given me, I'll take her at her word. She does not want our marriage and sadly neither do I anymore. I don't know why the D is taking so long, why my W isn't pursuing it harder, but it just doesn't matter anymore. Is she suffering from depression? Probably. Is she thinking clearly? Probably not. Is she gong to be happy once we're divorced? No, and she admits that, but it's time to move on.

My mother's recent death has made me realize that no matter how much you want something, sometimes there is nothing you can do to change the outcome. That's where I'm at with my marriage. We will be begining the financial settlement soon and it will get ugly. She has much to lose (pension, profit sharing, stocks), but that's just part of the process, a process I never wanted to go through. Her decisions come with consequences, financial, material and emotional consequences. So far she hasn't had to see many of those consequences, but that's about to change.

I would have done anything to save my marriage and keep my family together. I got help when I felt I needed it. I encouraged my W to do the same, but she hasn't. I've learned alot these past two years and have grown so much. In the end, I'll be much better off than my W emotionally and financially, but I'll still be divorced and that saddens me. She's going to have a very tough life ahead of her, she knows that, and even though it wasn't my choice, I'll be blamed for it.

Oh well, next year HAS to be better.

sad dad

<small>[ December 21, 2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

Next year WILL be better. When the New Year rolls in you can put this year to rest, and start moving forward to better times. I hope things start to improve soon.

Sad Dad,
You have reached a decision. YOU know in your heart of hearts you have tried all you can. You are a human being my friend. Its time to move on if this woman does not want you or this marriage anymore. That does not make you a loveable worthy person. God has someone for you later when you are ready but for now be strong and be wise about this. Be careful It does NOT have to be ugly. Do the right and fair thing all the way around and move on so that you can have a quality life.

Life is short my friend. Don't waste it on sadness.

Zoey

h4f & zoey,

Thanks for your encouragement. Next year has to be better, how could it be any worse.

Zoey, you are right, it doesn't have to be ugly, but it probably will be. Being "fair" is a matter of perspective. We have a true 50/50 joint custody agreement. To me, that couldn't be more fair, but from my W's perspective, it's not because she never perceived it turning out that way. As far as financial issues, I'll get what I'm entitled to, no more no less. I doubt she ever thought about it, which is why it could get ugly. A few weeks ago she wanted to buy me out of my share of the house, but later realized it wasn't possible. It is for me, so now I'm buying her out. It's not my fault I can afford it and she can't. I'm just dealing with the hand I've been dealt and hoping for the best possible outcome.

sad dad

(((((sad dad)))))

My friend,

I'm so sorry about your Mom... I must have missed it if you posted -

I know how difficult things have been for you, and I wish that there was something I could say or do to make them easier...

Awww, shoot, I wish I was there to give you a great big hug for real.

E

hi sad dad,
your story comes from the heart, and you seem to have reached the end of the road, which is sad of course, but at the same time a great sense of liberation with better things to come on the horizon? keep us up to speed.
all the best
N

sad dad,

I made that decision long time ago (April'02) and SH told me to let the Dv happen. Now I had a piece of legal paper that will say I will be a divorced man after 12/31/02. I have no regret to move on and looking forward for it. My word for you my freind, let Dv goes as quickly as possible ... even you have to give up more. Trust me, it is not worth the $ or the emotion drag. I have to put an end to my M before financial settlement is reached. The judge granted me change of status since he saw that she was the one who refuse the financial offer and keep dragging me. I know this mess will keep hitting me since WW will drag me to the court every 6 months or any changes on my financial until no more CS. I hate to tell you this is just the beginning but this won't go any worst unless you let it to happen. Focus on your kids, avoid to hear or listen to any news about WW, if u hear one just let it pass like 6PM news. You hear about it and let it pass to the other ear. Your world now revolved around you and your kids, your W was taken by alien from your world. My WW's NC on me was God's Blessing, I will keep it that way until my last breath (plan C).
Happy Holiday ... -rh-

SD - it's crystal clear to all of us here that you did all you could.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no matter how much you want something, sometimes there is nothing you can do to change the outcome. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wise words.

I believe that when it is finally over, you will be guilt free because of your effort. On the other hand, our WSs will have a heavy load for a long time to come.

Do not be shy about going after every penny. You have to be the "adult" for your daughter and you'll need all the resources you can get. Anytime you want to hesitate to go after that extra penny, let me know and I'll slap some sense into you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dave

As I understand your posts, financially you have the better circumstances (good job etc.). If this is so, I think it is usually a good thing in life to be generous, to give more than get. While getting what you deserve (legally) is fair, and no one can fault someone for insisting or working to that goal, giving has it's own rewards. I would give more than you are required to..NOT for your w benefit per se (allthough she would be the recipient, and by proxy your D as well), but because it would be good for you to do that. I wondered how the house thing would go, and I don't know the actual financial details to say, but if you could have worked it so she got it, and you carried part of the load, then why not do that? Perhaps as a lienholder, so that sometime in the future you would be paid back to some degree when the house was sold. That is just one example.

On the other hand, I don't think it is a good idea to be bound by court order to generous child support, alimony, or such. That can get pretty dicey. But I would encourage you to make financial contibutions above and beyond, or give up more assets after the legal property settlement, if needed and used responsibly. Not with strings attached, or manipulatively, but because you observe your xw practicing good stewardship. If she is financially strapped, but working hard, it does your D no good to be living with a stressed mother (for example). Also despite the complicated mess of failed relationships, and who did what to who, this woman is a part of your life forever. So it seems being helpful (whether appreciated or not) is better (for you) than standing by and watching someone flounder/suffer (if that occurs). Life has it's own rewards for those who go beyond what is "fair".

By the way, this all applies to her too, all of us actually. But all any of us has control over is ourselves, and giving, caring, are decisions we make, and have nothing to do with being appreciated or cooperated with.

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>

SD,
I have read your post from time to time and I feel your pain. Sorry to hear about your mother. I am in the same boat, but it has only taken me a year. I would probably continue to try, but WW insiste that she needs the divorce to rid herself of the guilt. I think it to be just another lie, but thats ok. As I look back on our M, nothing I have ever done has been good enough for her. We can hold our head high knowing that we tried. Even after the pain and suffering, we were willing to try. I still worry about my wife, she really needs help. She is very depressed and is willing to do about anything to find happiness. The only problem is that the happiness she is getting now is only temperary and that saddens me. I pray my D's will not suffer from this and that is why I am trying to do this as simple as possible, with out getting taken advantage of.
good luck to you.
Cd

SadDad - First of I all I want to say that I am sorry about your mother- it is very sad especially this time of the year - And I think that you having come to a decision about your marriage is a great way to start the new year <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> - It is sad when a marriage ends and it still isn't the end of the emotions of being betrayed of giving it your all and getting nothing in return - but at least you know you have done all you can and now it is time to move on. Now the custody - 50/50 is wonderful - and at least one of you can stay in the house so that will prove stability to your daughter for sure. Your wife I am sure will be less off financially but I am sure she will not be in the poor house - I just got divorced in September and my husband cries poor everyweek - and you know I am sorry - but this is what he has chosen. My main concern right now is that my daughters are not denied anything due to the divorce. I will not let their lifestyle suffer and from reading your posts I think that is one of your main conerns also. I wish you luck in the new year and I like you am thinking things must get better - they really couldn't get much worse - Stay strong and just remember - take the good with the bad days - and things will turn around... Good Luck...

She does not want our marriage and sadly neither do I anymore. I don't know why the D is taking so long, why my W isn't pursuing it harder,
Because it is easier to NOT do anything. If she were to push it more, it would take more of her time and she would be forced into at least deal with it in some way.

hi sd,
Just want to let you know I'm here. I don't have any wise words for you today.... but plenty of support and prayers.

I almost feel guilty whenever I feel relieved that someone here has let go and reached peace and acceptance. But that is what I feel for you... relief. I guess we hate to see our friends in pain.

Sending you big MB hugs today!!!! We are here for you.

Good morning sad dad,

I have followed your posts for a while. I'm so sorry that this did not work out the way you had hoped it would. I'm also very happy for you that you will be able to move on knowing that you did everything that was possible to do.

If I understand Lurking About's post correctly, I strongly disagree with being overly generous in the financial settlement. I think that it is a much better idea to go with the legal guidelines, like you said--no more, no less. I believe that this will give you the freedom to be generous as you see fit, without it being legally required. From your posts, I think it is highly unlikely that you would be generous "with strings attached" so I really think it's in your best interest and in the best interest of your daughter to keep your freedom in the area of generosity.

I was sorry to hear about your mom--you have been in my prayers.

I want to thank you all for your support and well wishes. I look forward to moving on with my life with a clear conscience and hope for the future.

I just want to address the post by "lurkingabout". I want to be fair and as generous as I can be for our daughter's sake. One thing I want to point out. My W works for a large corporation with an excellent retirement package. I work for a small company with no such plan. Years ago we decided she would invest as much as possible into her plan for OUR future. To do this, the majority of our bills were paid from my salary. If this wasn't an option, we probably would have invested our money in IRA's or some other retirement vehicle, which would have been split equally. All I want is what I'm entitled to to protect my future/retirement.

As far as the house, why would I help her keep it? If she had our daughter 70%/80% of the time, it would be different. But I have her half the time, actually a little more. Why shouldn't I keep it if I can afford it? My W won't be living in squalor. She'll net about $48k from the house. More than enough to buy a small house or townhome.

I am generous to my daughter to a fault. I would never deny her anything because my W couldn't pay "her share". But I would like to know that any "generousity" on my part in the future would be to serve the needs of my daughter, not the needs of my W. Any stress my W may feel down the road, be it financial, emotional or otherwise, will be due to the choices she made.

sad dad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Any stress my W may feel down the road, be it financial, emotional or otherwise, will be due to the choices she made. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sad Dad - I applaud you!!

Natural consequences to the actions we choose. This is life...

Gib

The additional info is noted, sounds like you have a good attitude, my points were very general as I (hopefully) indicated. To clarify (in retrospect my post was a little cloudy), I did try to make the point the other poster made re generosity being more desireable in your hands, rather than legally mandated. The general principle I was promoting is that making "fairness" a combative issue is not a good thing (although one obviously must have a boundary at some point!!!). Far better to get less than you think you deserve, than win a fairness battle IMO. There is nothing easy about divorce, including the nuts and bolts of the financial settlements, and how gender roles and marital history impact those things. I guess I was reacting to your gonna get ugly comment, and was hoping you don't view this as a contest you must "win". Let me also note, obviously your d best interest factors into all this as well. Re your last comment about stress, I disagree with it, but not important, is your life, live it as you feel you must. On the forgiveness scale I am more on the more is better end of the ruler, but that doesn't make me right, just my personal choice. I don't do a quid pro quo analysis, or worry about blame/fault/deserved consequences when I act, I just act (I do have criteria, just different criteria).

Gib,

Thanks for checking in.

lurking,

"...generosity being more desireable in your hands, rather than legally mandated."

I couldn't agree more.

"I was reacting to your gonna get ugly comment, and was hoping you don't view this as a contest you must "win"."

Nobody wins, especially our daughter. I worry it may get "ugly" on her part. I think she went into this with a very unrealistic idea of the outcome. She should get custody because that's how it works (her exact words). She should get the house because she'll have custody. She should get a huge CS payment because she'll have custody. Her retirement benefits are hers because she worked for them, doesn't matter that we were married. I think you get the point. I realized early on that 50/50 custody was probably the best I could expect. I didn't think either of us would keep the house. I knew I'd have to pay CS, but not a huge amount because she makes a very good living. I knew I'd be entitled to some of her retirement benefits, as she is mine, I just have less. Hope that explains the "ugly" comment. The feeling of "winning" or "losing" is based on one's perceived expectations vs. realistic expectations. IMO, my expectations were more realistic, but in the end my daughter's losing because her family is broken up, and that's really all that matters.

As far as stress, I'll do all I can to help her with any emotional or mental turmoil that lies ahead. However, any financial stress she may find herself under, as long as my daughter is provided for, will be none of my concern. You may not agree, but that's how I feel. She made her bed...

sad dad

just bumping up

hey there,
my advice: get it over & done with. you've been emotionally raped, now you're being financially raped too. whatever the outcome, try to avoid a situation where you have to shell out $$$ each month to her or for CS. again - time to move on, time to close that chapter. the story has been written, it's just a question of how quick you turn the pages. and in the mean time, get that turkey lubed up and pre-heat the oven well. good luck!
N

<small>[ December 24, 2002, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>