</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by chazbutler:
... not sure what im suggesting is all that contriversial ... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It isn't at all. It's the foundation upon which all is built. If you flip through the volumes of material written on this subject, especially where the betrayed spouse is concerned, you see time and again the path back to a healthy life (let alone marriage) is through the self. Indeed, what other way is there to go? Very few of us here are victims (although not all of us know it). To even suggest that we are puts us in a weak position, helpless even. Why would anyone want to assume that role in his or her own recovery? It's absurd. Frankly, the most empowering piece of news I got was when my wife actually told me she had been having an affair. At that moment I had real choices and, therefore, had control again.

Just thought I'd jump in with my 2 cents worth. I totally agree that some marriages are dead when the affair happens. But I don't think that all marriages that experience affairs are dead. The problem with the affair is it puts a whole new, difficult dimension into trying to recover. Having another person to turn to makes it much easier to take that leap. I think that is why we as BS have to look inside and see what it is that we contributed to the cause of the A. It gives the WS a CHOICE. Between the best that we as BS have to offer and what the OP has to offer. This is Plan A IMHO. We let a lot of things slide as we get comfortable with someone in the years of marriage. I know I did. I may not be a totally different person, but I have made changes that needed to be made. That doesn't mean H will choose to return, but I will be better for the trying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My responses and outbursts as a BS were typical. I think it's rare to be able to navagate those first few months as a BS without pushing most if not all the "blame" outward. It feels as if a grenade had exploded inside one's chest cavity and there is no end to the hemorrhage of your life's value.

So, Chaz, if a BS here on MB is fairly early into the process ... not much introspection can be tolerated by them at that time. (Really, same could be said for the WS early in the process as well!)

I recall almost to the moment when MY introspection began .... about 6 months after D-day. I recognized that my FWH was further along in his healing introspection than I was ... and this really really bothered me! After all, I was the "good person" here ... and in order for me to remain the "good person" I needed a "bad person" to compare myself to. I looked around and saw Pepper becoming a woman I did NOT admire, I did NOT like her too much, and I wanted to slap her silly! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

I NEEDED to be the person who was "better" in our relationship because of my PRIDEFULNESS. My pridefulness was like an anchor dragging along the bottom of the water ... I could move, but not well, not quickly, and not with grace. I was AFRAID to be without my pridefulness because then I would not recognize myself as "the good spouse".

I cut anchor.

Chaz .... the BS cutting anchor of role-playing "the good spouse" is a huge loss of identity. Some can't do it. Some can. It's hugely frightening and requires a leap of faith that there will be "a me that I like" once the false identily is dropped.

Chaz, I am asking you to have understanding and patience with the BS's on this forum who have not yet dropped their "good spouse" "bad spouse" paradigm .... and replaced it with a new paradigm more conducive to healing and growth.

God Bless.

Pepper

<small>[ December 21, 2002, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I thought we were having a healthy conversation that was making all of us go into ourselves and look around. Every one that has posted has posted valid thoughts, principles, ideas from their own situations and from theories based on general concepts, can we agree? When I get involved in threads like this it helps me on many levels because I get so many other viewpoints from BS's/WS's..but not because that is what they are, it's because they (we) are people and the 1 thing we have in common no matter what; is that we all have been faced with dealing with an affair; no matter what side of the fence you are coming from. So how could this thread be anything other that theraputic in one way or another?

I do not post to blame my WS, or shout that I'm the poor ol BS. I use this forum to heal, learn, listen, understand, contribute if I can, debate, but most importantly help with my pain in helping with others pain. I feel that understanding all the facets of pain can help me grow and understand what I did as a half of a whole that was torn apart. I also think there are people here that do have more understanding of their situation because they have spent time during their lives reflecting and working on themselves, does not make them any less likely in being a victim of an A,or a perpatrator of one either.

Sometimes I think the only place that some of us can vent, or whine or be a victim is HERE, because it should be a safe place to do so, does not mean that someone feels a victim, it's that they need nurtured or stroked because it helps them in processing something internally that they need to clear and make room to view the situation from higher ground. I don't look at that as a victim, or WS basher. Just making room for improvement.

Sorry so long, but I was thinking this thread was a good way to keep people thinking and not to agree with one poster as opposed to another. I think everyone who posted on this thread is right until it gets to judging another poster. Agree with statements that one says if it has made you recognize something in yourself, but this thread is NOT a right or wrong thread.

YowZA!!

What a debate... BrambleRose... you are dead on! So much of what you posted applies to me and my my H...

new_beginning... I believe that we need to empathize w/ the PAIN on BOTH sides... I can even imagine the PAIN my H feels... I felt then, and still felt now... that the betrayal he did to himself was way MORE than the betrayal to me...

But I believe the bottom line in all of this is that we CANNOT compare pain... betrayal... blame... there is NO comparison... HOWEVER if our marriages, our relationships are to survive we must do some serious introspection... be empathetic and be TRANSPARENT to our spouses... those hidden issues... those hidden thoughts and feelings can be come the BIGGEST elephant in the room and do the most damage...

Cali

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ultimately, only the cheater can sort himself / herself out, and this takes a lot of personal courage. Yet cheating, by definition, implies a lack of courage. So, unfair though it is, the BS has to provide safe conditions for the WS to expose their frailties and explore themselves. And the risk exists that the 'real' WS that is uncovered may not be what the BS wants or needs. Facing up to that takes courage from the BS too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As the author of the words that seem to have sparked off this debate, I&#8217;m glad that they have produced such a robust discussion. However, I&#8217;m slightly alarmed that they&#8217;ve been taken out of context. On a different thread, this post was exploring the issue of a situation where the BS can see that the WS has personal problems that are likely to lead to doom, but where the BS cannot, despite best efforts, get the S to acknowledge the problem, never mind deal with it. In this case, it DOES seem unfair to the BS that they, who have tried so hard to fix the M, find themselves having to deal with the aftermath of the disaster they were trying so hard to prevent. In some cases, it is not actually possible for the BS to provide conditions conducive to sorting out the M, when the ENs being sought by the WS are inimical to the R., such as sexual addiction, as in my H&#8217;s case. And when a spouse with many personal weaknesses finally admits to them, it needs care and consideration from the BS to give the WS confidence that they will be given space and support to address those problems.

This is pretty damn tricky for a BS whose world has been exploded, and who is feeling far from strong themselves. Don&#8217;t forget, the WS (and the OP ) has had full visibility of the situation he / she was involved in, and has had time to mentally process what they were doing. The BS must assimilate all this knowledge in a matter of days or weeks, and then must rapidly produce a coherent action plan. The BS may find themselves effectively in competition with an OP who has had one-sided knowledge of the situation, and who has perhaps had years to plan a d-day strategy. The BS gets shovelled into this, like someone dropped from a passenger flight into a war-zone.

I fully agree that both parties must be accountable for fixing the marriage. Examining how the marriage failed to provide sufficient support is vital &#8211;both BS and WS must accept this. But is an A is a good way to sort out a marriage, or simply a good way to avoid sorting it out?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>
I recall almost to the moment when MY introspection began .... about 6 months after D-day. I recognized that my FWH was further along in his healing introspection than I was ... and this really really bothered me! After all, I was the "good person" here ... and in order for me to remain the "good person" I needed a "bad person" to compare myself to. I looked around and saw Pepper becoming a woman I did NOT admire, I did NOT like her too much, and I wanted to slap her silly! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

I NEEDED to be the person who was "better" in our relationship because of my PRIDEFULNESS. My pridefulness was like an anchor dragging along the bottom of the water ... I could move, but not well, not quickly, and not with grace. I was AFRAID to be without my pridefulness because then I would not recognize myself as "the good spouse".

I cut anchor.

Chaz .... the BS cutting anchor of role-playing "the good spouse" is a huge loss of identity. Some can't do it. Some can. It's hugely frightening and requires a leap of faith that there will be "a me that I like" once the false identily is dropped.

Chaz, I am asking you to have understanding and patience with the BS's on this forum who have not yet dropped their "good spouse" "bad spouse" paradigm .... and replaced it with a new paradigm more conducive to healing and growth.

God Bless.

Pepper</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well pepperband... i thank you for your warm reception to us threadjackers from the other site. this site is fast and intense! but there are a few threads i have been watching. chaz's postings i think are very valid, they spoke to me and i got his idea, and agree for the most part.

but to your post i say thank you.... i believe what you say about the journey of self reflection is real. i do not see myself as behind my h in healing. nor do i say anything outwardly to anyone about my moral superiority or my victomhood. in my case, only two people know about my husbands affair, so there arent many shoulders to cry on or people to rally to my side of the cause.

but after reading your post i realise that although i have worked hard at identifying my part in marital unbliss, and trying to change my habitual ways, i am guilty of dragging that anchor, that pride, that victomhood around with me in plain view of my husband. i have preached forgiveness and unconditional love hollowly at him without cutting the anchor, bearing my soul. i am guilty of burning all evidence of his affair in hopes that he would think me sincere, but i still carry those memories fresh in my mind... turning them over so i do not forget them. i am ashamed at my behaviour when i see myself through your eyes.

thank you for posting and sharing. it has opened my eyes to my dark side. i hope i am strong enough to deal with it now. who am i if i am not the good spouse? it will be an interesting journey. i am humbled by your insights.

<small>[ December 22, 2002, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: maplesirup ]</small>

My H had an affair and left us four years ago. I think it is far more common for the BS to blame herself initially than not. I spent quite awhile wondering what I could have done differently, how I could have prevented this - it took quite awhile before I realized that I was accepting far too much responsibility. I was not perfect, my H was not perfect - but my H's choice to have an affair was almost entirely the result of his depression, his sense of failure.

As to why Chazbutler might sound like SNL - I believe it is because in both cases it is the sound of an articulate but seriously depressed man. I think that is the most logical explanation for why he doesn't sound like the "old" Chaz.

I took the weekend off from this forum - was having too much fulfilment and fun preparing for Christmas with my son and new romantic interest. So, I thought I'd see what transpired on this thread after I asked a simple question based on an observation and drew an association between two posters.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SNL stated via cry2much:
<strong>How quickly the character assasination starts when someones ox is gored (in this case that ws fit in tidy neat packages of culpability for marital failure). Little surprise that dave took my name in vain (someday maybe you will let go of that bitterness dave, it is gonna kill you, your w treated you poorly for sure, but her issues with you were very real reading between the lines of your own postings, you as chaz is suggesting generally for many bs, played a significant role in your marital failure, and it started long before the tradgedy of your son and your w subsequent affair).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe my observation was FAR from a "character assasination," but I regret you took it that way, SNL. Nor do I believe I "took your name in vain." But, again, only you can interpret your feelings. Hmmmmm, I wonder how Chaz feels that you feel that a perceived similarity between you two - inappropriate or not - was received by you as "taking your name in vain." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Re-reading a few of the posts on this thread, I think we're splitting hairs for the most part. My only disagreement with Chaz was what I previously described as an "inordinate" amount of blame shifting towards BSs in general that I perceived he was doing. Apparently this was interpreted as wholesale defense of myself and BSs - again, in general - as innocents and this interpretation is further confirmed by SNL's conclusion about my marriage, quoted above.

I don't think I need to defend myself, but my ownership of pre-affair marital conditions has been stated over and over on this forum ad nauseum - perhaps to the point that if my XW were ever to read some of my posts in isolation, she'd find plenty of "justification" for her behavior in my confessions. To wit:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Posted by worthatry on Orchid's recent oldtimers update thread:
<strong>However, I was not innocent and contributed to the poor marital environment with angry outbursts and disrespectful judgements - motivated by my frustration with the lack of closeness from my wife, motivated by my angry outbursts and disrespectful judgements, motivated by - well you get the picture. The Chicken and Egg Death Spiral.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once again, SNL, this is why I adopted a policy not to respond to your posts long ago - because you had your mind made up about yourself and others - and me in particular - and your heels were dug in in your own defense and your defense of WSs described here. My case in point - you quickly signed up that I had, indeed, "hid" money from my wife that could have otherwise been used on my son, as I reported my wife claimed. Look it up.

But back to the central theme. My reading of thousands of posts on this forum suggests that BSs in "early response" regarding "blame" tend to fall into three categories:

1. complete blame for the affair falls on the WS
2. ownership of varying portions of blame for the WS's affair
3. full self-doubt or ownership and either can't blame the WS at all due to pre-affair conditions or take on too much ownership of the problems

(NOTE: the conspicuous absence of pre-affair conditions in my first and second categories. First response of BSs is typically focused on the pain of the affair - not yet on its causes.)

I believe the overwhelming majority of BSs on this forum fall into category 2 right off the bat.

Soon, this group absorbs the information and understands what MB principles assert: they own a small or large portion for what was wrong in the marriage and the affair is just another symptom. A fever due to the disease. Eradicate the disease and the fever will take care of itself.

That said, a portion of BSs never get it and never look inwardly - but I believe this is a small portion of those posting here (probably a much larger portion of those who don't come here or don't otherwise seek counseling).

OF COURSE all BSs could have done more to prevent the affair before it happened. I'll bet the majority did try - and like myself, unwittingly maybe made it worse because we didn't know the right things to do. What soon-to-be BS wouldn't try? In hindsight, I know I'd do things differently. But that does not mean I would have been successful in preventing my wife's affair. Further, remember that almost all BSs who arrive here do so after the affair has already been discovered - fixing things to prevent the affair is already too late.

The valid point that seems to be lost in this "blame game" is the BS's analysis of what they see and hear of the WS in the affair after it's already underway. We've read about it over and over and over. The alien abduction, the love-drunk logic, the behavior and excuses that a child can see through - unexplainable and incomprehensible statements, actions, and hypocrisy.

And some wonder why some BSs don't immediately practice introspection and sign up for all the marriage ills they contributed? Think about it.

This sets up categorization of WSs (in the act) regarding blame:

1. complete blame for the affair falls on the BS (at least what they portray)
2. a large or small amount of blame for the affair falls on the BS and the rest falls on other stuff - but none on the WS
3. the WS acknowledges ownership for poor pre-affair marital conditions, but the marriage was already "over" so what's the problem?

Once the fog clears, I believe WSs fall into blame categories not unlike numbers 2 and 3 I propose above for the BSs.

My point here is that discussions of blame - on the part of both BSs and WSs - must be with respect to the point in time the discussion occurs relative to pre- or post-discovery of the affair and pre- or post-fog clearing, respectively. Vastly different perspectives apply and the reactions (casting of blame) of both BSs and WSs seem to be driven in large part by the craziness or clarity of the moment.

As for my bitterness, yes, I still harbor some, I think. Will it kill me? Don't know. But mostly due to discussions of this sort, I believe I have a pretty good understanding of what went wrong in my situation - both before and after the affair started - and bitterness or not, my feelings continue to resolve and fade.

I have written too many words on this forum NOT to have offended some people and I apologize if I did that on this thread - such is the cost of critical analysis and speech. I actually applaud folks like SNL and Chaz - not that I always agree. Loath be us all NOT to be turtles - who don't get anywhere until they stick their necks out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WAT said I'll bet the majority did try - </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">id say that after i read all of what we have written it really boils down to this.

Im of the opinion that the majority of WS's try to communicate their needs desires wishes and emotions all to fall on the deaf ears of a perfectly content BS who is not significantly suffering because Most of their important needs are being met (probably because they now how to care take themselves and ask for what they need set appropriate bounderies etc..).

Why, because thats MY experiance, when i read the posts here, I see it in many many situations, from my vantage the majority of posts from BS and WS alike.

WAT and Others beleive the opposite.

so the issue for me becomes Is this about the Marriage, Pre and Post A, or is it about the A.

if its about the A, then Maybe we should change the name of the site to something like "Why an Affair" or "Lets Get that Miserable WS".

I dont discount that there are people who have been married to miserable SOB's who just dont have the character to keep it in their pants, but by far the majority of the posts i end up getting involved in (maybe because i dont want to spend a moment of time on the other kind) are seemingly not that way at all.

but for those who are really here to build marriage, the mission is to discover how to build a marriage that is, to use Harley's words, "Affair Proof" then there is value in examining what was going on in the marriage prior to an A to find out why they were seemingly happy and content, or even just not that miserable, that opened the door for another person to meet the most important needs of their spouse.

that after all is the basic program here. the MB program that is.

I take issue with people who spend valuable time of current and future BS's who come here looking for ways to "Repair their Marriage" only to find a bunch of folks who assasinate their spouse by grinding on the character or lack of it in their WS.

The stated objective here is to build marriage. how in the world does the perpetuation of ill will, blame, and guidance that does everything but guide the BS's toward themselves and their role in their marriage Serve that goal.

as long as we drag out the ability of a BS's or a WS to look externally for the answers the I believe we are doing a disservice to them.

I doubt anyone would suggest that the majority of folks here dont steer the WS to that end. My notion here is that there is little of that going on with BS's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The stated objective here is to build a marriage. how in the world does the perpetuation of ill will, blame, and guidance that does everything but guide the BS's toward themselves and their role in their marriage Serve that goal.

as long as we drag out the ability of a BS's or a WS to look externally for the answers the I believe we are doing a disservice to them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Chaz .... I agree .... internal answers are paramount for the individual to recover. This includes accepting personal responsibility and accountability for one's errors. When both parties are onboard with their internal/individual accountability .... then marital recovery is possible.

I want WSs here on MB to be treated with dignity, care and respect ... as if ... he/she were MY dear darling husband.

I am ashamed of the times when I have not been as loving or as understanding as I might have been.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nellie1:
<strong>As to why Chazbutler might sound like SNL - I believe it is because in both cases it is the sound of an articulate but seriously depressed man. I think that is the most logical explanation for why he doesn't sound like the "old" Chaz.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nellie1, you've been here since 99? did you recently change the name I just cant recall seeing your posts until very recently.

anyway, while i havent had the time to Play here as much, I always enjoyed the fun threads as much as anyone, I have chosen to only post when i really think i have something to offer anymore.

As to why people might drag SNL's name up? He created a negative feeling in alot of people BS and WS alike because he was completely without remorse or introspection. His stated mission was to analyse not to understand his personal role. I dont think he believed he was at all wrong in his actions attitude or intentions and was non-apologetic for any of it.

so Ive asked or proposed something that is not popular so ive pulled an "SNL" why not cast aspersions on the question you dont like or want to consider, that way we dont have to really consider it.

its odd that when i act very much like i did when I was at the very time SNL was posting asking hard uncomfortable questions of the WS there was no outcry? no one complaining, the odds were with me in that situation. by shear number the odds are against me on this one.

i sound just like the OLD CHAZ, if not its because i am more confident in myself, i am more personally in control of my life and decisions, and the ANXIOTY is all but gone from my life.

Fear is what ruled me in my life fear of not being liked mostly. and 3 years ago had i been in this situation i would have only said what i believed you would appreciate from me, not what i believed or even knew to be true.

so no, I am far from depressed, in fact I am more emotionally healthy today than ever. does that mean I am Happy? I am a happy man, a happy father, and a periodically happy husband.

I am shooting for much more happy husband!

what hangs in the balance? personal growth, not mine anymore though. the ability to live authentically in the present has been a huge gift to me, one that i can only wish for my spouse, one that i can only support and try and live as an example.

I can only change myself, not my wife. I see her with new eyes as a whole person, when she controls, or crams her feelings its not about me anymore its about her. I cant change her, i can only influence her. Which brings me back to the board. You see i was influenced by my participation here, i think most who come and invest here are. so when i see advise and trends that would damage rather than rebuild marriage, my marriage, i take some offence and feel compelled to post.

i see what ive been posting about as a very negative and coorsive influence on BS's new and old alike.

P.S. Thinker you asked if i found it negative to be likened to SNL, I think because he did alot of damage while he was here, yes. not that he lacked intellect but seemingly lacked compassion.

<small>[ December 23, 2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: chazbutler ]</small>

Chaz - compassion is lacking still! To hear that you didn't like being connected to SNL, sends a message to all. Yes, he is intellectual, which is good. Compassion is not his strength. I still feel his sexual affair was okay with him. To hear you say, the things that you are changing in yourself is great steps to a better you. I hear the compassion in your voice, and the caring/love of your wife. Why is it that SNL doesn't seem to give me compassion? Even after the injury he did to my shoulder, which resulted in surgery, and the pain I feel every day, going to physical therapy, and taking all this medication, for pain, anti-inflammatory, anti-spasms. I am a human with need of being held, cuddled, and talked to. Not with SNL, he wants to talk about relationships, bonding, whats love, soulmate, oneflesh, etc. How he met this wonderful woman, how she filled his needs. She didn't fill his needs, she filled his fantasy. They didn't live daily, find out his faults, and her faults. Pay bills, of course she didn't have any bills to pay, she was a stay at home mom, and didn't work, and husband did all the bills. In reality, he was a little boy playing house with a little girl.

Yes, life has been really tough here, and continues to be tough. My fight to live is not high. But that is where I am at, to experience pain everyday is tough. If I make it through this time, maybe I will be stronger. Now I know why some people end their lives, pain is a cruel symptom, those of you who have not experienced pain daily, don't know the internal depression that happens.

I still feel, the BS has worked harder than the WS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cry2much:
<strong>I still feel, the BS has worked harder than the WS.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Harley said: " The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference "

Thinker it pains me to think that your still investing in a love that only you have.

I dont doubt that there are BS's that work hard, and many that will work harder than their WS. What matters to me is what (and Who) they work on. in the same way I exhausted myself giving myself away in the hope and attempt to make my wife love me, i did so in vain, as What i was doing was contrary to her most important of needs. That i lacked authenticity, integrity within myself, meant that she could not see me as a man, so the work i had done in the marriage was worth nothing to her. even though in comparison task for task effort by effort i was much busier working on the realtionship than she. it was all wasted energy and did nothing but exhaust me, and drive her away.

this is the time for introspection.

Yes it is sad that I am still looking for love from him. I still do love my husband. He is the only man that I have loved this way. Yes, I loved my father, but in a different sense. But he does not show love for me.

Counselor says, that we both care and love each other. Sad to say, he doesn't want to grow on this love, and grow on this caring. I know that we could of had a great marriage. Knowing what I do about emotional needs, and such. He the same. But he has decided he doesn't want me, and what more can I say. He has casted me away, and I know life is going to be difficult for me, I always looked for my husband for questions to answer, and looked to him for approval of many things. I did many things to please him, he knows this. And now I can't do anything to please him, cause he doesn't want me. He thinks he will be happier with someone else. Maybe he will, until he gets tired of that person. I never realized he would do anything like this, never realized that he would put me so low on the pole. Never realized he could criticize me and call me ugly names. I am reading this book about lies. It is actually a book a counselor told me about. It gives you eye movements, hand movements, body language, vocal statements, and what they mean. I wish I had read this book while SNL was lying to me all the time. I am reading this book, and see his face, and say, boy I could of came back with a statement. It talks of ways to turn the question around so that he can't lie. Just a good book to know when someone is being truthful or disrespectful.