The only contact I have had with WS was to email him about his mail, in which he does not reply to email or has been over to get mail which needs his attention. I do not bother him as he has made it quite clear that he wants no part of me, his family, dog, blah blah. I have decided to send his mail to his P.O box that he keeps, does this sound logical to everyone? Part of me would like to add a note expressing that if he does not want to pick up his mail, change the address so he would not have to be bothered, but I'm sure he would use that against me as another issue of trying to hurt him.

Question 2:
Everyone who has read my posts knows the "fog" that WS is displaying, but what I need your input on is this:
Since we have basically no contact with each other (obvious since he won't even pick mail up or reply to email) how would I even know that he is still involved with MOW? He does not even contact his father, and if he does it's to bother him about money, so his F does not accept his calls now and screens his calls. Other than his F, WS contacts noone else. So, I have no idea if he has any clarity yet to this situation. For the people who are going thru this, could you give me some pointers, ideas, opinions as to where he might be mentally?
I know that the MOW is still married and has not left her husband as I ran into her BIL by accident, (he did not know me) and I heard him talking about his SIL (of course I stretched my ear as far as I could; listening). BIL works with WS, so he was very shocked when he found out, also heard him say how she use to talk about WS, how she did not respect him or feel him to be much of a man. (wow, guess she changed her mind), and this was years before she had an A with him.

I love him but I also know that I can not do anything that will not be considered negative to him, he has totally turned against me and made me the monster as the BS is. May I have your thoughts, sorry I rambled on.

My first instinct was to tell you to have his mail forwarded to the P.O. box but then I realized that the form requires a signature. You do not want to get in trouble with the post office. I would not send his mail to the P.O. box yourself, why should you go to the trouble? He knows where his mail is, he knows where to come and get it. I would get a large box and toss the mail in it as it arrives, if he decides he wants it, he can come and get it.

Hi Neesh,

Unless there is critical date sensitive (i.e, bills, etc.) stuff your H needs, I'd hang on to the mail and hope he shows or contacts you to give it to him. I mean, even if you get a P.O. Box for him, how will you contact him to inform him of the location?

You won't know if he's seeing MOW or not. You just have to Plan A or B without knowing. Remember, the plans are more about you than anything, Hon.

Have you read LostVa's Post? Her WH was not in contact for a long long time too. I'll go find it for you and bump it up.

K?

Lv,
Jo

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Thanks Lady, Res,
He has a post office box number that he uses for school, I know the address, so I was going to put the mail in an envelope and have his sister mail it to him. There is a credit card bill that has his name on it and his father's that WS has been using and his F closed the account. The limit is up to 12,000 and I'm sure he is going to dump it on his F, it's due Dec.30 hence my concern.

I know that the last time he was here getting some stuff, he blamed me for him having to drop his important class that he dropped last year when he was wanting to escape (but he wasn't having an A, he was just not going to work).

Also he got very angry that I know where he lives and his phone number, I said to him, "WS, why would you have them call here and give me the address and number when they were going to connect you"?? I do not consider that LBing, just stating a fact. I think he got mad because he rented a place that is almost 1000.00 a month rent, and that's just rent!!! He didn't like the real life issues of much smaller bills when he was here, (as if it's better now??) So I have a strong feeling he is starting to bottom out, that worries me but like I said, I can not reach out to him because I am the monster, and he would spit in my face, as it pains me to say that.

Neesha,

Do me a big favor. Don't let his blaming weigh on you. The affair is his deal, he OWNS it.

I know what you mean about being perceived as the monster thing. I had my H hating me also for a term while still home. I Plan A'd and he actually told me he loved me again. Before that he would grit his teeth when around me.

Almost all WS are in anger mode when in an affair. If they stay mad at you, then they have someone to blame for their poor behavior and choices. I did a poll once here asking BS's how many WS's were angry at the BS during affair time. There were so many responses in the positive it was uncanny.

I just don't know what you should do about the mail thing. Perhaps just hang on to it. He knows he has mail, he's an adult. Altho thing is, if his credit goes into the dump for late pmts, then yours may as well.

Love,
Jo

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Res, I'm trying not to, believe me. I guess some days it just hits me as to how useless all the negative energy he thrashed around could have been so easily turned around to at least been amicable in him leaving.

He's got the life he asked for and that does not make him satisfied, but to act so childish as to not pick up his mail nor get the rest of his stuff out of the house, well; I just need to vent when I can't shove it out of the "thinking cap".

The day he moved is when I went to Plan B, but I really have used the time to look inside of me in growing from this experience, and I AM growing.(lol). I've always been one to look inside deal with it and move on. But I never thought I would have to be thinking so hard about such issues as when a grown man won't come get mail, or is sending the mail the right thing, it irks me that there is so much overthinking involved when you are the BS. Maybe that's what I'm whining about, I am overthinking simple issues that I should NOT have to because someone CHOSE to have an A and I can not be comfortable doing common sense things, like : knowing what to do with mail, phone calls for him, such mundane things!!!

Whew, gave myself a freaking headache, but at least I got to voice something that bugs me and I have to process it and let it go. Thanks and sorry for the rant.

Yes I know that so many say the same things about how they were treated by WS blaming, being nasty, and childish, it still can give you intense pain on the bad days because the BS's have to deal with the A internally or in counseling, talking to friends while the WS gets stroked and rewarded and nurtured by OP (well for at least as long as the fantasy lasts!!) for doing a disrespectful act. Doesn't make sense in my common sense brainf tonight I guess.

Thanks Res for posting back, I needed to vent tonight.
Take Care and have a safe holiday season if I don't get to talk to you before that. Peace.

Hello Neesha

I'm sorry I don't have too many words of advice, but I think Jo is right - you have to look after yourself.

Your WS has made his choices and you cannot affect them in any shape form or fashion at the moment as he is refusing any contact with you. His mail, his worry, not yours. If the bill is an issue, are you in contact with his F still? Could you mention it to him, especially if you think he may get lumbered with it. I'm sure you wouldn't want to see him hurt.

As to whether your WS is still seeing OW or not, I know it's easy for me to say, but try not to worry about it or think too hard about it. If he is, he is, and he will still be very foggy and not ready to communicate with you. If he isn't he may well be in withdrawal, and still not ready to communicate with you!! Huuummm, both are not very nice really, are they?!? So, what do you do for yourself? Do you exercise, go out with friends for a Christmas tipple, take the dog for long rambling walks?

Although my H has not cut himself off completely and is the BS, I have to understand that he wants and needs space, for whatever reason. So does your WS. All you can do is try and enjoy the festive season, and look after yourself.

Wishing you well from London Neesha.

Lisa

Neesha --

Haven't talked with you for far too long and I am fixing that right now! I know you're still very much a presence on this board as I still find and read your posts to others, but I haven't noticed a thread from you for awhile. So...here's one; I'm glad we've reconnected.

I've always appreciated your clear and sensitive thinking and your wonderful ability to cut right through the "stuff" and see a thing for what it really is, not just with your own situation but those outside yourself as well.

Something in your last post (above) struck a meaningful chord with me: "...the BS's have to deal with the A internally or in counseling, talking to friends while the WS gets stroked and rewarded and nurtured by OP (well for at least as long as the fantasy lasts!!) for doing a disrespectful act."

I agree with you that that often is the appearance and perhaps the outcome for now, but it has no meaning beyond its borders. It's all contained within that framework, inside its shell, like one of those glass globe paperweights wherein the village and its residents are inundated by a raging snowstorm whenever one shakes or tips it. Move a foot away and it has no effect on the outside world, none at all, meaningless. For the village residents, it's blizzard-time!

So it is for those in an A. They have their own small and pitiful world but it has no reality beyond itself. Yes, it creates immense pain and problems for BS, family, and friends, those on the outskirts, but reality? Hardly! It's a temporary and incredibly harmful, selfish and destructive fantasy world!

Pats and strokes from the OP ultimately are worthless, as they have no power or ability to sustain and nurture long-term benefit in a meaningful relationship. The globe eventually runs out of snow, the town therein appears untouched, the buildings still stand, that world goes on. But look at the damage to the survivors on the outside, often permanent and crippling, sometimes fatal...

All for what? Some pats and strokes? Some erroneous reclaiming of one's youth or missed opportunities? Some totally irreponsible and obviously weak choices and "solutions" to perceived problems in the primary relationship? Some very immature pathways and directions for one's life and family? What a sorry route to choose!

Hang in there, Neesha, you've got it together! I know that you're in good hands because they're your own. I wish you peace and resolution...

Ammon

Neesha, I just want you to know that I love your posts. You are able to express my thoughts with your words.

Ammon, I also look for your posts you always have the right words for everyone dealing with their pain. Your words give me hope.

RRS (Rhonda) --

Thank you for your kind words to me. I'm just a fellow-sufferer here but I do get back so much when I am able to post my thoughts to our members--helps me get through my days (and nights).

How are you doing? I know that H had turned into someone you didn't know and was being mean and cruel to you. Have things settled down a bit? Has The Fog lifted some or does it still cover all? Is your MIL still supportive? Where do things stand? Can you give us an update?

(Neesha: sorry for horning-in on your thread; trust you won't mind the brief interruption) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ammon

Thank you Linda, Ammon, RRS for taking the time to post back. And Ammon I do not mind you using the thread to post to RRS, I enjoy when people keep a thread going, mine rarely if ever stay going for more than 1 day..lol.

Last night after posting my last message, it became quite clear what was bothering me, it was the "overthinking" common sense issues about mundane matters. Wouldn't you agree with that when you are the BS? You have to second guess things that you would not do for any situation in your life, correct? But here we are doing that, how many threads have we read that people were in a quandry about such simple things that the NEVER would have had to ponder, just because they are the BS, and the issue might surround the WS. That's what got me going last night.

Lisa, I have been keeping up on you posts and I know the time you are having and all the energy you have put out on rebuilding your M, I am still very proud of you and as I stated, your BS is on the other spectrum and has to sort out his way, I don't agree how he does that, but I really feel he feels so much unlike a desirable, sensual, man that he is having such a rough time of it, and I also think that he feels responsible about your A because of all that. I also think he feels that he was not good enough for you as a mate in the attractive energy of things. (I'll explain myself later if you choose to read this post) I'm proud of you for having the patience now to let him sort his deeper self out. He has to come to terms within himself that HE can and IS the mate for you.

Ammon, what can I say? I would like so much to have you give me a recorded message of the words you so fluently and softly type, you soothe me in your postings. I like that and know how important it is to hear from you because you were the first to answer any and all of my posts. I was missing you!! Thanks, my friend.

RRS, I was touched that you posted and gave me such a compliment, I try to speak from my heart on what I think we all feel sometimes. It helps me to not feel so isolated and also you just can't walk around your home speaking about things, especially during the holidays..lol if you know what I mean!!

I am really quite able to cope with him being out because as Ammon has read, it was quite bad in the home and it was just not only WS and myself involved. I don't mind the peace and fluidity of my daily life. I have 5 dogs to exercise, (well the 2 big ones) the other 3 are small and one is 21 years old!!! Yep., the other is 12 and had cancer, (he's my precious one) we both are survivors of it, well, so far. (but that's another story). The 3rd of the small ones is my only female, she is prissy and does her own thing.
I have 3 parrots that I hand raised from the egg, did have another but he died last year in Oct. and look what this Oct brought me!!! D-day. I do keep myself busy Linda, but as my disability does not let me get out and walk on the bad days here in the Great White North (remember I am a Florida girl by heart and nature) I exercise my mind and body every day, I have to or I would not be able to walk. Well I guess I have rattled on to much, just wanted to thank you so much. Nice to hear from the same people who have been here for me these 2 months!! 2 months!! Woo woo....and they say time doesn't fly by..(that was sarcastic) Peace to you all on the holidays.

Ammon, Thank you for inquiring about my situation. My H is still very much in the fog.
We spoke three weeks ago and I lost it with him after he blamed me for our YS failing grades. I also asked when he wanted our sons for Christmas and he only wanted them for 3 days out of their 3 week break. When I asked him if that was all he wanted them for and he responded that he would take them the whole week of Christmas.

He then said, "I know you are just trying to keep me away from ....(OW)"

A week later H email me and offer to bring them home on Christmas day since he has to work the day after. I responded that I also had to work. I am finally standing up for myself!

Since H left, our sons have been an afterthought with him and I have been dealing with our sons' emotional outbursts.

I honestly needed a break from them. I have been the responsible parent forever and its time he stood up to the plate.

In answer to your question about my inlaws yes they are all very supportive of me. I love his family. They all have told me that my H does not deserve me. I have much support and love from my coworkers, his coworkers, friends, neighbors and family.

I have the benefit of knowing the OW and I know that she is a very unhappy person and likes to critcize others and I noticed before D-D my H putting everyone down including his family.

I have hope that all this negative energy will destroy their relationship.

I just finished reading Private Lies and believed H'a to be the romantic/romantic affair partners. This book also gives me hope to wait the affair out and not pursue divorce.

Neesha, It sounds like you have your own Noah Ark at your home!

I just wanted you to know that I kept reading these posts looking for answers also. Our men are truly aliens and their behaviors are considered "normal" affair behavior. I am getting stronger everyday and know that I will survive whatever happens in my marriage. I can tell that you are also getting stronger by some of your post comments. Take Care and keep warm..Rhonda

Rhonda, thanks for the emotional support, all we can do is try, right?
I wanted to ask you, your WS had a PA with MOW, did she leave her BS and move in with your WS?

Who could blame you for needing a break, sheesh, you have been so strong and solid for the kids.

Please know you are in my thoughts and I wanted to again tell you that your special words mean so much to me. For some odd reason the last 2 days have been rough.

Neesha, My H moved out and lived for 2 months at a motel. He finally moved into his apt. last month. We had a 4 four hour phone conversation and he told me plans of moving in with her, this
conversation took place before he moved from the motel. I questioned him on having our sons overnight at OW home and said he would not sleep with her front of our boys. I then asked what about her kids, they get to see you sleeping in their daddy's spot. This is the same man who was very upset when a female coworker moved a married men in with her and her children.

The worst part of all of this is I do my training where they work and eventually will have to see them. I have spoken to several of his coworkers who told me to hold my head up high, I have much support there. The OW was not well liked before and the coworkers are blaming her for going after my H and most hate her now. My H had a wonderful reputation prior to this and people are shocked.

My H became very friendly with one coworker who was always playing around on his wife and I express my displeasure of this friendship. My H claimed he was witnessing our faith and trying to convince him to live God's way, I guess it backfired.

Have you read Torn Asunder? I ordered it off internet the other day after seeing others on the site recommending it.

Neesha, Her H took a new position out of state and the plan was that she was suppose to follow him when she was finished her job assignment. Their house was put on the market. On D-D she decided to stay on. I have heard that OW H know of the A. I was checking h voice messages after he moved out and know that her children know about the A and are accepting him in their lives. My sons can not stand her now. They had a relationship with her and children prior to this. He has been wanting to have a dinner date with our sons and her and I fear it might soon happen.

OW still has home on the market and I hope it does not sell until the A is over and she moves on hopefully back to her H out of state.

I am not sure how to play it if and when my H come out of the fog. Many people are telling me to make him win me back. But I get the impression from MB that you accept WS back when OP out of picture even if WS show no remorse.

I plan on calling Jennifer if that time comes to walk me through it. Rhonda

Yes, I am sure that is the best thing, would be a very stressfull process and you will need all the support you can handle. I do not understand your WS wanting the boys to have dinner with her, makes no sense to me. Have you and MOW's WS spoken about the A?

I am sorry that you will have to train at the place they are at, but YOU can hold your head up high, you have nothing to be ashamed about. I know that with the strength and grace you have shown, you will keep it together.

I am sorry that at this time of the year he can not get "grounded" enough for his children and the holidays but you said he blamed you for YS's grades (which I know is WS's "fogcrap", but I don't know if you said if the boys are in counseling, or if WS will go with boys, or at least the kids. I know if he is still caught up in the "fog affairyland" he probably has not even considered the kids mental health and issues surrounding that has he? Sorry I am asking so many questions but I like to keep up on friends that I post with so I do not sound redundant. Bare with me.