I have a question about my D and need advice. My H seems to be coming around a little. Nothing said or concrete but just seems to be more communicative, things are just starting to 'feel' different somehow. Well my lawyer e-mailed me last week and wants to send D papers for my H to sign so we can file. The things he is asking for I know will make H mad and defensive AGAIN. What should I do?

If H is coming around I don't want to push him away, BUT!!! If he isn't I am TOTALLY ready to get this whole thing over with. I AM DONE!!!

I am just so stuck, If the door is opening I don't want to shut it forever, but I am tired of waiting. I want to get on with my life. I am prepared to face the consequences of the D, yet a part of me still wants reconciliation, even though it will still be a long haul. I don't know how we will ever reconcile with H so far away. I feel so torn. I am beginning to enjoy my life and don't know if I want the pain of trying to fix what is broken, but I know it is worth fixing. But I also am tired of being in charge of the "save the marriage" project.

Boy I am just rambling. I hope you all can make some sense of what I am trying to say. Can you advise?

Sharon

<small>[ December 28, 2002, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: footballwidow ]</small>

Sharon,

Filling doesn't mean Dv. It will take time !. In CA, at least you have to wait 6 months plus 1 day before you could be legally Dv. Mine tooks months plus, just because I took legal manuver to end it otherwise it could drag for a long time.

Pledge ignorant on what your lawyer do ... just say he is handeling it, you just tell him you want Dv. He got paid to deliver it to you.

-rh-

IMHO- If you don't want D why are you filing for it? Definitely it will cause hard feelings and push him away. If you don't want D hold off on paperwork... if you needed to get child support or something like that in order, fine, but don't let the d stuff keep going if you do not want it. He will know you are behind what attorney does in my humble opinion. Most people would know attorney is working for you.

I have not filed, and will not until I know I don't want to be married, only then.

Hugs, H

can you put it off a few weeks? Until after the holidays. Give it some time to percolate.

Then, if you see no progress, you can send your H an e-mail saying that since your H has been gone over a year, with no desire for reconciliation, your lawyer has advised you that he will be sending documents, (make it sound like your lawyer's fault as much as possible) reiterate that it is not what you wanted, that you are heart broken, but you must at this time follow your lawyer's advice, as your lawyer is insisting on it.

You could ask your H, to confirm to you, prior to sending the papers, that there is indeed no hope, and that he is finished with the marriage. Then, although he may not like what's in the papers, he can't really argue, since he will have made it clear that divorce is what he wanted.

I'm not completely sure of the best way to handle this, but this is a suggestion for starters. Give your H a chance to have another Xmas, this time truly away from the family as last year he was away under false pretenses. Give him a couple of weeks to process that experience.

Thanks Redhat, Honey and Espoir,

I am going to wait till after the holidays. It seems like the thing to do. Redhat I know it will take time. I think 3 months here. I just worry about it getting drug out because what he thinks is fair and what my lawyer thinks is fair are polar opposites.

Honey, thanks for your reply. Why I am filing and not my H is a long story. I never wanted the D before but now I do. The only reason I have been softened is because H has been acting different. But he is so far away and things just seem impossible. I certainly understand your position and is one I would agree with I think if my H was here. But I have practically no contact with him and he seems content to live in another state and see us one or two days every 3-4 months.

Espoir, I think as I said I will wait. I don't really think anything is going on. I think H is just lonely for the kids and home (not me). I have just reached the point where holding on is holding me back. I am tired of being married to the invisible man. I love my H but I am ready to let him go. I still have times when I long for him to call and say the words I waited a year to hear. But those times are becoming few and far between. I care for him, I want the best for him, but I have no desire to wait for another year or ???? for him to wake up, if he ever does. I always have to take into account that what he has been telling me all along was true that it would never work out. Maybe he was right. One person cannot make a marriage. He is either unwilling or unable to make a marriage with me. That is okay that is his choice. But now I am making the choice not to wait. I may be stupid or jumping the gun. I know that it can take 2+ yrs to come out of the fog. But I don't even know for sure if he is in the fog. I don't know ANYTHING about him anymore. He called the other day and I didn't even know who was on the phone. He is not my husband anymore. It truly is a marriage only on paper. I am not blaming him, I am not blaming me. It took two of us to wreck this marriage, one of us cannot rebuild it.

Anyway, I will be working all through till Xmas so I won't be around much. I hope everyone has a happy holiday. Think happy thoughts and count your blessings.

My best to all,

Sharon

Hi Sharon,

I think it's wise of you to wait until after the holidays. It's hard to know what to do, isn't it? No one gives us lessons on how to behave or act at these times.

My exH filed, but even that didn't push me out of the fog I was in. I wish it would have, but it made me feel like, "See, he doesn't love me, any way...he just wants out." AFTER that, I asked him many times to delay the divorce. (it took a year from filing to finality) The answer was always, 'nO."

I would suggest filing, if that's what you feel you need to do, of course. However, I would also let him know that you still love him, and hope for a change..IF that's how you feel.

This is just a story of an acquaintance of mine, and thought I'd share it with you. Her husband moved away about four years ago, and moved about 70 miles away to be close to his co-worker/OW.
She was left here with her two boys to raise alone, and she'd never worked in her life. She now works part time, and I guess her H gives her enough money to live. Anyway, this man's OW still lives in her home with her family! My acquaintance is still waiting for him to return to her, after four years. She hasn't filed, nor has the H. There in a 'relationship limboland', as I see it. My acquaintance isn't dating at all, and she's still hoping for him to return, after all this time. She's a vibrant, beautiful woman who has so much to give. Sharon, I think that your proactive stance is by far the better one to take! IT's fine to wait, but take care of what you need to take care of, first.

TAke care,
h_P

Thanks H_P,

Boy what a story. I have to admire your friends ability to hang in there. Waiting forever for my H is not going to be my life. I don't want to live this way. It is too unfulfilling in so many ways.

Lately the idea of the D has become more and more easy to tolerate. In some ways I welcome it. In many ways I want it. I still have feelings for H, but he has given me NO reasons to hold on. I want a life and I don't need my H to live it. In a way I am so much better off then him. I have the kids, my friends, family. He has OW. If she is still around. I feel sorry for him but I am not going to take him back just for that reason. He will have to win me back. Just as I have tried to win him back all this time.

Anyway I gotta go. I hope you have a happy holiday. I will be thinking of you. Don't give up.

Peace,

Sharon

ditto the others, but why hasn't your H filed?

WAT

I`m on vacation,don`t have timeto post, but I don`t blame you for how you feel. It`s a good attitude. But, I do have suggestions for how to present things to your H. Will post after hols.

Thanks Espoir,

I can use the advice. I am about to roll over and give up as far as fighting about the D anymore. I am just ready to give up just to get it over. I will be awaiting your advice. I don't want to give in to H's idea of "fair" but the cost of quibbling is more than what I will gain in the long run.

Anyway hope you are having a great vacation, and that you had a wonderful holiday. I did. Thanks again.

Worthatry- It is a long story as to why I am filing instead of H. Let's just say if I wasn't he would be and it would be over by now. I am trying to keep at least a little control by filing in our home state. It isn't working too well but at least I am controling things to some small degree.

Sharon

BTW,
His new communicativeness seems to have stopped. I have a feeling OW has been with him over the holidays since school is out and that he is deep in it again. Oh well. I guess this whole thing will just have to run the course. Too bad I won't be around to see the outcome. I've got better things to do.

<small>[ December 28, 2002, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: footballwidow ]</small>

I haven't posted in a long time, but felt that I had to respond to this post. I believe that marriage is a life time commitment... not a "I've found someone smarter/better/more beautiful/younger" commitment. That said, I think it takes two to make a marriage work. My IC helped me see this the other day. I have done everything that I could to make my marriage work, including SF with my H while he had TWO OP (just friends, he said). I met all of his EN, and nothing I did was enough for him. My IC helped me see that my H has his own reality, and it is very different from mine. I could continue to insist on MY reality, but it wouldn't change his.
So, this time when he said" We should divorce", I said.. ok.

If you truly believe that you have done everything that you could do to save your marriage, it is time to let go. Live in the moment, not the past or the future. Today is all we really have.

I agree, wait until after the holidays, if only to avoid the negative memories that might taint future holiday seasons, but do what you need to do for you.

I will be thinking of you, and praying that whatever you decide to do, it will eventually bring you peace of mind.

<small>[ December 28, 2002, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: almost50 ]</small>

Thanks for posting Almost. I do feel like I have done all I can. If circumstances where different and H was not living in another state I might be in a different place. Maybe there would be more I could do. But, that being said, Jan. 8th is the year anniversary of him moving. I have gotten nothing but "I don't know" and then "NO" for almost a year. I cannot plan A from a distance. Yes, I can write and communicate and support him, but, he cannot see my changes or be affected by them. He is, as you say, in his own reality and it does NOT include me. I NEVER wanted to be here. I NEVER wanted to give up. I didn't think I would ever be able to. BUT it is time. For now, at least, it is over. He made that decision, I am making the decision to get on with my life. What the future holds I don't know. But, I cannot keep living like this. Wishing and hoping for something that may never happen. I know to some MBers who have worked MUCH longer than I, it might seem like a cop-out. But, I just don't see it happening for me. At least not now.

I am sorry for what you and your H have gone through. I believe as you do in marriage. It is a difficult decision to give up. I am glad that you have found peace of mind in your decision. I have also. It still tears you in two though. I wish you happiness. Let's hope for a NEW year in more ways than one.

Sharon

Oh, I have good days and bad ones. I try really hard to stay in the moment, as "new agey" as that sounds. I find that when I let my mind wander I end up rehashing old events, thinking "what if I had said this, or NOT said that?" That kind of thing. OR I fantasize that the phone will ring, and H will say that he made a terrible mistake, and will I take him back? Not likely to happen.

Please know that you are not alone, and that you are doing the best that you can in the circumstances you find yourself in. We'll just take it one day a at a time, ok?

Almost,

I too have good and bad days. More good than bad now. I remember just a few months, heck weeks, ago saying that I would just like to string two good HOURS together. Now I have good DAY"S", weeks even.

I still have that phone fantasy too. And I rehashed everything till I thought I'd go insane. That has faded too. But I still feel a little tinge of hope everytime the phone rings late at night or I get a e-mail from him. I would just like to be in his head for one day. Then I could really understand. I still can't believe he did not come back. I was almost sure he would. I felt so strongly that eventually, if I was patient, he would be back. I don't know what happened, maybe I am just not patient enough, maybe it was really over for him. I don't know but I can't change the way I am feeling now. I think my heart will always be open till I find someone else, but for now I am ready to face whatever life will bring for me alone, and I am not really sad about it. It is just the fact of my life now.

Anyway thanks and take care.

Sharon

I remember just a few months, heck weeks, ago saying that I would just like to string two good HOURS together. Now I have good DAY"S", weeks even.
I am so glad to hear you say this. I wish it for everyone here.

I would just like to be in his head for one day. Then I could really understand.
I don't think you will ever understand. It's like you trying to understand a felon. It seems we always search for "why" and often there is no answer.

I still can't believe he did not come back. I was almost sure he would. I felt so strongly that eventually, if I was patient, he would be back. I don't know what happened, maybe I am just not patient enough, maybe it was really over for him.
Maybe he has agency, and he exercised it by making a wrong choice. We sometimes call it "free agency" but the consequences can be very expensive. I feel badly for him, but you and I can't do anything about what happens to him. You have been patient, and that has done much for you. Remember God is patient and he has lost 1/3 before we ever came here. You did just right, now it's his turn.

I don't know but I can't change the way I am feeling now. I think my heart will always be open till I find someone else, but for now I am ready to face whatever life will bring for me alone, and I am not really sad about it. It is just the fact of my life now.
I have a great deal of respect for you. If I really could communicate my high opinion of you with one word, respect would be the closest.

Did you find out about that better job yet?
How are the kids doing this year without dad?
Did he say anything about the gift you got for him?
How have the e-mail's been - I know you were worried about that getting to you, sounds like they did not bother you all that much.

Still praying for you.

SS

<small>[ December 29, 2002, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Still Seeking,

Hi, I thank you for your post. I am always glad to hear from you. Yes, free agency, it is weird but this whole thing has given me such a greater understanding of why free agency is so important. And why it is such a blessing. Even though it gives us ability to hurt ourselves and others, it is the only way we can learn. I often hear people say "Why would God do this?" "Why is this allowed to happen?" It is like the scripture says "...if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good."...."The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?"

These things have taken on such a greater meaning for me. I am and will be eternally grateful for what I have learned from this experience. And if this was the only way to learn them then it is well worth the pain and heartache.

As to your other questions. I did not find out about the job yet, which probably means I didn't get it. But I will have faith and trust that the Lord knows what He is doing. I will try my hardest to help Him help Me.

The kids seem to be doing okay. It has been hard but unfortunatly my H withdrew so much the year before leaving that they haven't missed him too much. I am sure there are things which will rear their heads as time passes, but for now we are loving and supporting one another and things seem to be fine. I have spent a lot of time in our marriage being mother and father to my kids. I guess I was in training.

I talked to H on Xmas he mentioned the nice presents. He was very rehearsed sounding so I didn't talk to him too much except thank him for the nice presents he sent and wish him a Merry.

The e-mails have died down. I think it was just the holidays. He hasn't written much the last 2 weeks. My lawyer is sending papers too so that will dampen things. If he doesn't sign, I guess we will let a judge decide. I am finished making compromises to benefit him.

Now I have a question for you. Are you a Bishop or Stake President? You sound like you are used to giving wise council.

BTW, thanks for your respect. You have mine too. I don't know that I deserve it but it is nice to hear. I AM trying to be worthy of, if anything, self-respect. I am trying to give my H respect too, even if he makes it hard for me sometimes. But I HAVE to respect his decisions and choices, otherwise I cannot expect the same from him and others. Good or Bad, choice is CHOICE. Plain and simple. It is a God-given right and blessing, to be used for our growth or destruction.

Thanks SS. I hope you and yours have a wonderful new year and that you had a good Christmas.

Sharon

<small>[ December 29, 2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: footballwidow ]</small>

It sounds like you really are doing well, but I worry anyway.

I almost quoted that scripture to you one day but I can see you already know it, probably by heart after all you have been through. It has long been one of my favorites.

I laughed when I read your question, I read it to my W and told her that she should come on and set you straight about how bad I can be at times but she just said "you are helpful sometimes."
No, I am not and have not been, but I have counseled a few bishops. Most of my years have been spent working with young men, and that is where I am now.

I'll be interrested in hearing how things go once the Lawyer gets going. I don't like working with them, ( because it means something bad is happening) but they are good to have around for some things.

All the best to you too.

SS

<small>[ December 30, 2002, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Sharon,
I'm so proud of how strong you are. I wish I could be more like you--realistic and accepting of life's realities. You really show a lot of strength.

It really hit me when you said

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I still can't believe he did not come back. I was almost sure he would. I felt so strongly that eventually, if I was patient, he would be back. I don't know what happened, maybe I am just not patient enough, maybe it was really over for him. I don't know but I can't change the way I am feeling now. I think my heart will always be open till I find someone else, but for now I am ready to face whatever life will bring for me alone, and I am not really sad about it. It is just the fact of my life now.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very wise words!

I know that you're a member of a church that is very supportive of its members through life trials. I hope that you've found great support there. It always helps so much to have people dear to us who rally around us .

I don't have much to add, just that I'm thinking of you and glad you're doing well.

My other thought though to you and Almost 50 is to not give up yet. Look how long it took me to get out of the 'fog' ,as it's called. It's so hard to admit that you've made such a devastatingly selfish, foolish MISTAKE. Like I know I told you before, I know part of the reason I hung on to OM so long was to 'justify' in my mind that the whole A wasn't just some sick fling, that it was 'valid'. Please remember that, and don't give up yet completely.

Almost 50 wrote of the fantasy of the WS's call--phone call where WS talks about the big mistake,etc. I , of course, did that--make such phone calls--more than once--but exH has never been interested in working on our marriage, at all, after he knew of the A. Your spouse, and Almost 50's spouse, might make that call. On the other hand, doesn't it seem that overall women are more likely to try and work on things, change things back to how they were--than men are? I probably shouldn't generalize, but that's how it seems. Dare I say men are more stubborn? (sorry , men who read this--no offense intended..and I could be wrong_)

Enough for now, take care Sharon.
Happy New Year to you, too.
H_P

SS,

I talked to my Lawyer's secretary. She says we are filing the papers whether he signs or not. He will have 20 days to respond and if he doesn't sign he will have to get a lawyer. I wrote my H an e-mail asking him to please trust me and sign the papers. But I don't think he will. He is living in a dream world. My lawyer thinks if we go to court he is going to get slammed. I have tried to be fair but he can only see it from his point of view. I understand that, but I also need protection. I know left on my own I would give H everything that he wants and how he wants it. EVERYONE, from my own kids to H's mom, dad and sister, have told me to listen to my lawyer and don't believe my H is being straight with me. So I cannot do this on my own. I thought I could but I found myself feeling sorry for him and wanting to give him the world. I cannot do that. It is not fair to me or the kids. I am in no financial position to make it on my own for at least a while. I don't want to be dependent forever, but I need his support right now. He can't see that. He can't understand why I need more than just the basic, bare bones living expense. I don't know I wish I was independent. This is one thing about him leaving that sickens me. I wish I was independent. After what he has done I hate to even take the basics. In a way it makes me feel like I was a Wh@re for 24 yrs. Well maybe not all the years but the last few when H had "given up". All I was basically doing was being his chore person and fulfilling SF when he needed. He apparently didn't love me. He said he gave up 5 years ago. 5 YEARS!!!! So I was living a sham for 5 years.

Anyway, got off on a rant. Sorry. If you ever want to be a Bishop or Stake Pres. I have connections to Pres. Hinckley I'll put in a good word for you. Just kidding, well about the good word. I do have connections. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am glad you worry about me. I worry about me too. I hope my foundation is strong enough. I feel like one foot is on rock and the other sand. And you know what happened to the house built on sand. This has been on one hand a great spiritual experience and on the other hand the kind of thing that could drag me down. It is a long story but let's just say spiritually I really wish this hadn't happened at this time. Having my H leave me because of Church (his biggest problem, so he says) was really awful. Considering I was praying working hard and doing all I could to try and get this family to the Temple. That is why I thought he would come back. I thought it was meant to be. I couldn't understand how tearing a family apart would be the answer to my prayers. I have to believe the Lord knows what he is doing. I know he does. It has been hard though. Really hard.

Anyway thanks for talking to me. I guess I should get to bed. Maybe sometime I'll get around to posting why I am up so late tonight.

Sharon

Hi Sharon,
I do worry about you, and I worry about lots of us here. Parts of life can be a real struggle. I know you have some of the good parts too, and I am happy about that. Sometimes those small positive things are all we have to hang on to, and I hope you are hanging on for dear life.

I understand that, but I also need protection. I know left on my own I would give H everything that he wants and how he wants it. EVERYONE, from my own kids to H's mom, dad and sister, have told me to listen to my lawyer and don't believe my H is being straight with me. So I cannot do this on my own.
You love him, and you would do anything to make things better. Right now you need to listen to the advice you are getting. The fact that you worry about it so much means your emotions are still trying to find a way to make it work, and that leaves you open to getting taken. We already know he doesn't care about you the way you do about him, after all, he left for OW.

I thought I could but I found myself feeling sorry for him and wanting to give him the world. I cannot do that. It is not fair to me or the kids. I am in no financial position to make it on my own for at least a while. I don't want to be dependent forever, but I need his support right now. He can't see that. He can't understand why I need more than just the basic, bare bones living expense. I don't know I wish I was independent. This is one thing about him leaving that sickens me. I wish I was independent.

When our lives become so entwined, we become dependent on each other. It is supposed to be that way. Husbands are not supposed to leave their wives to fend for them selves. The reason judges award alimony is for that very reason. You have been betrayed, and so you get some help. That's why your friends and family are telling you this same thing, so listen to them.

After what he has done I hate to even take the basics. In a way it makes me feel like I was a Wh@re for 24 yrs. Well maybe not all the years but the last few when H had "given up". All I was basically doing was being his chore person and fulfilling SF when he needed. He apparently didn't love me. He said he gave up 5 years ago. 5 YEARS!!!! So I was living a sham for 5 years.
You didn't know, did you? ( I am supposing that he is rewriting history as many do anyway) but you didn't know. How can you say you were anything but a loving wife? Where does it say that if the H goes off the deep end and leaves his W then it invalidates all her efforts? I have never seen that anywhere, have you? Remember also that we learn line upon line, and there is no way you can say " If only I had done better 5 years ago." You did as well as you could at the time, and you know it.

Anyway, got off on a rant. Sorry.
I believe that's why we come here??? So why the sorry???

If you ever want to be a Bishop or Stake Pres. I have connections to Pres. Hinckley I'll put in a good word for you.
No one in their right mind would WANT to do one of those jobs. I am happy being a dad and husband and working with the YM is not to bad, but thanks. ( LOL)
Just kidding, well about the good word. I do have connections.
If I ever meet you and talk to you, you can tell me, now you have me interested.

I am glad you worry about me. I worry about me too. I hope my foundation is strong enough. I feel like one foot is on rock and the other sand. And you know what happened to the house built on sand. This has been on one hand a great spiritual experience and on the other hand the kind of thing that could drag me down.
All trials have this potential to drag us down, or they would not be trials. There has to be risk in order to have gain when you make the right choices.

It is a long story but let's just say spiritually I really wish this hadn't happened at this time. Having my H leave me because of Church (his biggest problem, so he says) was really awful. Considering I was praying working hard and doing all I could to try and get this family to the Temple. That is why I thought he would come back. I thought it was meant to be. I couldn't understand how tearing a family apart would be the answer to my prayers.
Remember that he said " all these things will be for thy good" and he did not say " this is the best way things could have happened."
I don't believe he wanted H to leave, and for you to be apart. I do believe that he can make even something this bad turn out for good. I don't believe it was you doing the right thing that caused him to do the wrong thing. Lets put it another way. He is saying " since you were determined to make right choices, I am going to make some really bad ones to make up for it."

Lets say for the purposes of this discussion that you and he had a talk a few years ago, and he made a deal with you that he would stay with you if you never did any of the things that you know are right. Would you be happier now? Would you be closer to your spiritual goals? Would your children be happier? Remember how much he contributed the last few years? Perhaps this is the only way you will be able to reach the goal you have, and the Lord extends it to you as such.

If you came to God, and H did not, this day would have to come. It is just a matter of when. Is God extending you a blessing by giving you a choice now while still on this earth?

I have to believe the Lord knows what he is doing. I know he does. It has been hard though.
I have said this quite a bit lately, but you are in the refiners fire, and it is HOT. My belief is that you will come out the other end purified and much more useful to God. One of the side effects is that you will be happier - please trust me on this one if you don't already know it, but it looks like you do know it, and are just having a hard time living it.

Really hard. Anyway thanks for talking to me. I guess I should get to bed. Maybe sometime I'll get around to posting why I am up so late tonight.
OK, now that you have mentioned it, you need to explain, its only fair. Don't leave us hanging.

Sharon, God knows you, he loves you, and he will take care of you. I promise you he will, for I have come to know it is true.
SS

<small>[ December 31, 2002, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>