What makes us stay and other people just give up and leave? I don't understand? Sometimes I wonder if there is something wrong with me that I won't just quit. He is being honest with me, I know where he is when he is not with me-with her of course, sharing himself with me and her. Telling me he wants to come home in the spring but still seeing her. Not going to spend New Years Eve with me but with her so she won't be upset with him. But the long term is all that matters right? If he is going to be with me forever it souldn't matter if he's spending time with her right? I don't know, Am I crazy? Just a vent, don't really know what to do. Stuck with waiting for him, but tired of being alone. Especially on important days. This year has been worse than last even tho I had just found out about OW 1 before x-mas last year. Now I just have to wonder whebn he leaves me is he going to spend the night with her? Most likely he is and I know it and it is killing me. It's been too long with this going on, I'm tapped out.

for anyone that responds, thanks. I'm going to sleep now, up much too late and need to go forget about this for awhile. Hopefully no dreams tonight.

Hi Dawn,

I certainly know how you feel. Me too. Sounds like he is wanting his cake and eat it too.

Question is do you want a part of that or not?

Individually we all have to decide. Now why they spring? Why the need NOT to hurt the OWs feelings and are your feelings worth less than hers? If so, where is his proof of value to you and the family?

I put those words out there to my H. He had to answer them also.

Give him stuff to make him think and put the onis on him to make you feel better. Sounds like he has a lot to do.

Hugz,
L.

Hey Orchid, Yes i do tell him those things but his therapist tells him he shouldn't move back because of guilt and he says we're both not ready. I don't want him back unless we've had a couple of months where there has been no contact with anyone and we can work on our relationship. Things are better most of the time but then I start thinking about him being with her for a weekend while I get an evening here and there with him. and he stays the night with her and yet feels uncomfortable staying the night with me. I don't get it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> As long as I don't pressure him every thing is fine, but if I want him to commit to a time frame then he starts acting like I have no right to. Anyway just venting, I know things won't change for a while but I do have a time frame in mind if he doesn't come thru with what he has told me about coming home. DBD

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Day,
My H & I have been recovery for 2 1/2 years, after 2+ very bad years.

I'm glad I hung in as long as I did with an 18 month Plan A, and that even when I had served the D papers myself, that I had the courage to try again when my H had lived on his own for 5 months and had done his own 3-4 month Plan A on ME.

I think you are entirely right that it would be good for your H to spend some time alone, after he has ended the A before he comes home. His behavior right now isn't behavior you want to live with. But if you want to Plan A, you can use the opportunities you see him to Plan A.

I found it almost easier to Plan A with my H during our separations, because when he lived at home and continued his affair behavior, I had a much harder time controlling my lovebusters. But for the span of a phone call or evening visit, I could manage my own behavior.

I can ususally be ok, depending on what is going on. The holidays have been hard tho and I'm tired of being second to someone else all the time. Noone has been home for the past 5 days except for our 18yr old and we could have spent a lot of time together, instead I got 5 hhrs on fri night and she's gotten the rest of the time. Just tired of it. Now I get to look forward to babysitting on New Years eve and him being with her. He can say he's sorry, but he doesn't do anything to change the sit. She was mad at him over x-mas so now he won't make her mad at new years. He could have just ended it because she was mad at him, but he makes it up to her. I don't understand that, if he's going to end it eventually, why not now? Just selfish. I want to be selfish now!

any one with any input! Thanks!

DBD --

Just want you to know that I applaud your almost super-human efforts to hang in there with this. It's a tremendously difficult thing to do, this path you've chosen in response, and you need to know that you're doing the right things for you, for your marriage, and ultimately for your H.

No guarantees that your thoughts, behaviors, and energies toward preservation will pay off in the end, but it's important, certainly so for you, that you do the very best you can and that you know it inside yourself.

When a WS "shares" simultaneously with BS and OP, it is terribly painful for those left behind, terribly unfair, and immensely detrimental. You are very fortunate to have both Orchid and Lor aboard to help you through this; they've already given you excellent things to think about. I agree with Orchid that H sounds like a cake-eater and is trying to get the best out of both worlds--except, of course, he's not.

So, he's coming home in the spring but will still see OW? Unacceptable! Saying he's sorry but not changing anything? Unacceptable! Feels uncomfortable staying the night with you? Unacceptable! Continues to be selfish? Unacceptable! How about a half-dozen more unacceptable behaviors from him? No wonder you're overwhelmed!

So, how long can you hold up? Long enough to get the job done? I'm glad that you have set a time-frame for him and the situation; important for you that things have structure and form--and you do control that piece of this. You can set boundaries; you can make this "fit" better on you. Right now, he doesn't have much motivation to change his behaviors, so perhaps you will need to make clear (once again?) what you will continue to accept and what you will no longer accept. Sorry if he doesn't like it; it's called consequences.

I am very sorry for this pain and turmoil in your life. You and your children have to protect yourselves emotionally and be there for each other even more. I will keep you in my thoughts, Dawn, and wish for you peace in your life and a much better year ahead.

Ammon

day by day,
Why do we do this? Believe me, I asked myself that MANY times.

...because we have faith: in God, our marriage, ourselves, and the Harley principles

...because we have hope that the fog will clear

...because we know the statistics; the tiny chances of the survival of affairs, and know our WS's will need somewhere to turn when the A crashes and burns

...because we believe in trying to make a marriage work, even through the bad times

...because we believe our WS's love us, and are lost in the storm, and we can be the steady shoreline... the beacon of light to bring them home

...because some people can't quit something til they give it all they got

...because we are learning and growing, and becoming better people, whether or not our marriage survives

...because we're scared to be alone

...because we can't give up on the person we love

...because we wanna hold a family together

I know you know all this. But I could relate to your question, cuz I asked myself over and over. But looking back, I definitely have no regrets. I did all I could.

Plans A and B work. You may feel like you are crazy, or a glutton for punishment sometimes, but the plans work.... for YOU... and when you are READY to to "quit", you will know it. We don't think there's anything wrong with you for "not wanting to quit".

Take care of YOU!!!! Especially on the holidays and important days.

huggggssssssss!!!

Faith1 and Ammon, Thanks so much for your replies, I just read them so was not ignoring anyone. I do believe my H. is serious about coming home and No he isn't happy with his life or what he is doing. I know that God will give me the strength I need to get thru this it just gets hard, and I'm only human, and get jealous and upset, but I know that all things work together for good! I did a lot of reading last night and praying, for myself and my H. I know most of my friends and family don't understand, they feel I am letting myself be used but you're right Faith, I can't give up yet, maybe never, who knows, but it's not time to do that and hopefully never will be. I applaud all of us who have stayed and are sticking with it, no matter what the outcome is. I hope everyone's New Year is so much better than last!

Dear DbD,

Please read Ammon's response again. It appears to me that you need to shore up on respect for yourself. Even 'if' the WS is repentant in the spring, right now he is not. So to put trust in his words is well.....kinda dangerous.

I don't mean to burst your bubble dear, you know that but I can't stand seeing him walk all over you either. You are not one meant for crumbs. You should be served with love and respect. Of the highest quality. If your H or anyone's H can't do that for their W, then you gotta wonder if they are worth it. Ok, you see that I am in this same boat here like many and the same applies to me also. Those thoughts hit me when I look at my H and wonder..... even now.

You know DbD it took a while but I have been at the state of mind and heart that are now one. There is no longer the tugging where the mind says leave and the heart says stay. It was like that for a long time and the turmoil was tremendous..... taking my anxiety to levels that made me question my sanity. Yet I kept posting here at MB and talking. In time, my heart heard my mind. Yep, my mind won out in the end. Reasonablness ususally does (another reason why most A's end). In other words, I can leave my H much quicker should the A flair up again. In fact I have. He has asked me to come back, several times. Now the tables are finally working in favor of the family without me having to do all the work. Yes, I still clean the house and do too much but the emotional work is more on him to prove his worth to us. We (son & I) have already proven our worth and we were told (by then WS and now H) that we are priceless (in a good way of course).

You are worth that and much more.... remember that.

JMHO,
L.

Day By Day-
I have been in your shoes exactly(I AM POSTED IN "Just found Out")

The only word of advice is work on u while he is out of house .
Don't let him back until OW is gone and I mean gone , cuz if u let him back in and H shares time like this when he lives home it is even worse .

I know I am doing it , if u think it is in your face now its worse at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

U are getting some very encouraging advice at least poeple here are telling u to hang in there.

I have posted same questions why do we put up with it ? JMO but I think it is because if its going to be over we want to make sure we gave it every effort there is to give so if we walk away or they walk away we may be able to do it with a clear head that it is not usits them .

I don't know if that makes sense to any one , but it gets me through a day here and there .

Be the best u can be when your not with H go about your life do for u don't wait for him.

DbD and 3is,

Why do we do it? Because like a salmon that goes back to the spawning ground even though it is to end their life, they do so..... it is a driven thing and right now the driver is your heart.

If you don't give this the opportunity (as painful as it is) you may wonder for the rest of your life, 'I wonder if.....' So for a while, you let your heart try all it's ways to give the M all the opportunity you can. In your mind you may know it is over. I did. In my mind I knew I should move on and quickly. Yet my heart was not ready and all the sage advice in the world was not getting me there any faster. But the sage advice did help me get prepare and get stronger. So there is benefit.

Don't beat yourselves up..... not yet...(just kidding <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). If your mind knows what to do and you just can't seem to let go, it will come. In your personal time and space when you are ready. It really has nothing to do with your true value (personal self worth). It has more to do with when you are emotionally ready to detach.

I know for me that is how it was. Some of us get to that point sooner than others. That is why I learned not to push others too hard...... knowledge is one thing but wisdom combines the knowledge and the heart condition to sue the knowledge in the right way. May your wisdom reach the level it needs to give you the strength to pull all your knowledge and support to move forward. With or without your H.

No one can make that happen for you (unless there is a tragic accident then we are forced to face reality and come to terms quicker but even that takes time). Just keep working on you. Strengthening your heart and inner resolve. Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart.

It will come. You are already headed in the right direction.

take care,
L.

Orchid, Yes you are right, I do deserve respect from him and I don't think I am letting him walk on me. I would never let him back home unless it has been over for at least a couple of months and he needs to be setting a goal for himself to break it off. That same old"I hate conflict" and "this is hard on me too" but that is his problem not mine. He knows how I feel and I do let him know. I am trying to plan A him and it is easier to do that since OW1 is out of the picture, but he knows and I know I can't do this forever. I did go out last night to friends house with my D. and her fiancee and baby, had a good time, got a little teary at midnight as it was the first time in 26 yrs we haven't been together. Called him and left a message on his cell . 3isacrowd, I posted to you on your other post, before I saw this one. Thanks for replying. My H. was home for quite a while with his first A. si I know how awful that is, she was far away but he took vacation time with her and her kids, weekends etc. I know it is hell. The worse thing anyone can ever go thru. It's so hard to believe someone you love can hurt you so bad and not seem to care, but it is a sort of sickness I think-the FOG! They can't think of anyone but themselves and sometimes it gets worse before it gets better. DBD

Day, I just wanted to ask you something, your WS said he was coming back in the spring, is he a bear? Has he been in some hibernation and will emerge with some new found wisdom? I am not making light of this please believe me, but it struck something inside me. He is telling YOU when he is coming back, wonder if in the Spring you feel it's not time or what gives him the right to dictate to you when he comes home? I am confused here.

So many gave people here gave you some very, very good advice and alternatives to not buying into what your WS is selling. He is telling you that your recovery is based on his convenience, not when you both are healthy to jump in and start healing. You are not emotionally healthy to face it yet are you? Is he? How could he be knowing where he spending his time? Guess it would be different in my eyes if he was in some cathedral of monks pondering life's greater meanings and learning the meaning of love in it's truest form.

And I read you posts, and it makes my heart hurt because you don't want to set boundaries for him but also within yourself about what it is that you can trully live with and still respect the person that is you. How can he respect you if you do not respect yourself, that is why he is making the rules in this game he is playing. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, I am not harsh at all, as many here can testify. But Day, you are not going to be any more emotionally or mentally prepared for all the work it's going to take for your M in the spring because you have not even worked on yourself as faar as self-esteem, what YOU need out of M, respecting of yourself and know that it is WHAT needs to happen for others to treat you with it. Not letting him dictate what and how and when things will happen!! Please fogive me if I have offended you, I am sorry if I did, but not sorry for what I said. Take care

Neesha, I am not offended by what you have to say. I told him tonight that I wanted a date set for returning and a date for him to break it off with her. Of course he turned around and said "you want to be in control, then you set the date and tell me" I know if I do then it will come back on me, and he will say I am still controlling him. It has to be him. I am upset because he is with her every night, wasting his minutes on her for cell phone and has a huge bill now. And wants to work out finances together but still live apart. Now I will have to suffer financially because I am supposed to fix his mistakes and he is feeling sorry for himself. I'm glad for all responses and don't take offense if someone is trying to help. I know I have a problem with boundaries but feel like I am being blackmailed with the I'll come back in the spring bit. DBD

Now he is also not taking his anti D. so he is feeling sick and will start getting moody and not thinking straight. I thought he was acting better on it but it is causing sexual problems so that is more important to him. He is not willing to fight for me so maybe i am better off without him, if I mean so little to him. If he can't even say when he wants to come back then it must not be true and he just wants to keep me hanging on, but for what? I can't understand why someone would be so cruel.

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