I found my WS at the motel with the OW yesterday. Well, I found her car and his car at the hotel, 2 of the 3 cars in the parking lot. I went to his room. After my banging on the door, he opened it with only his underwear on. He came out and said he was "trying to end it with her" and that he was "sorry" and for me to go home. Of course, I did not leave the hotel until he left. He left her there.

Today at 6:00 he calls and unbelievably denies that he was there with the OW. I asserted that I know her car and license no. and that I know that she was there with him. He then began to insist that he has just been "talking" to her. Of course, we all know that you don't go to a motel at 5:00 in the evening to "talk".

I let my WS come home. He asked me if was safe. He is now in the bed asleep. I said that I wanted to work on the marriage but that he needed to stop being dishonest with me about the OW. He commenced to blame me for putting him in this position. He stressed that he has felt disrespected and not treated as a man in his house and that I have given him low priority in my life. He stated that he used to love me enough that he put my well-being over EVERYTHING but that I have not loved him in that way. He states that he does not love me that way anymore. However, he did not say that he does not love me and he SEEMS to want to try to work things out. He did not seem to have alot of remorse over the relationship with the OW. He downplays the significance of the relationship to him. However, he has not been able to stay away from her. She seems to be in a panic now. While I was talking to my husband on the phone at his office this evening, the other line was ringing off the hook. It had to be her as his office was closed.

Before going to sleep, my WS promised to talk to me tomorrow afternoon and promised to not have contact with her before we talk.

We have been married 26 years and have two sons age 20 and 16 who can act entitled and be disrespectful. I feel that my S wants me to agree with unreasonable consequences for the boys at this point in order to prove my love for him. This is because he openly explains that he can not let go of his "animosity" over how I have undermined him and allowed them to disrespect him in the past. My S is not a great believer in counseling which probably would prove helpful in our case.

Questions: Should I proceed with Plan A? I'm not sure what I can do in the face of his extreme animositiy, seeming lack of remorse and tendency to deny his actions.

Should I sleep in the same bed with him tonight?

Is anybody seeing something that I am not seeing regarding this situation.

Please help me.

mimi,

Keep your faith and be strong. If you know for a fact that her car was there and when you knocked H wouldn't even let you in his room, something STINKS! I am WS, and as much as I would love nothing more than to tell you with clear conscience to Plan A him YOU must go to a firm Plan B letter, there are examples posted just recently, and DO NOT sleep on same bed. NC, NC...as quickly as possible! Aplan A right now sounds like it owuld be a cake and eat it situation.

Rest assured, and I see this thru my W, that if you effect a solid Plan B all the while working on YOU (via IC, reaching out to church members/group, clergy, reading the "right" resources...I highly reccommend "Boundaries" for a start) when your H comes out of his fantasy fog he will see who he has been missing all along, as well as, having to get busy on HIMSELF! Other side of coin is that by the time, if ever he comes out, YOU may find 'new' you has other objectives in life (I'm NOT suggesting dv, just never know what GOd's will is for US!)

I pray for your strength as you take these big steps! I pray for your H to turn toward repentance and get right with God and then YOU!

In Christ's Name!
<><

Catch:
Thanks for your response. I did a Plan B letter which he ignored by proceeding to go ahead and see her. Thus, I caught him. He does not want to leave home. Do I insist for him to leave unless he writes her a NC letter? That's so hard for me.

I'm so confused. Others on the Board informed me that I did not do a real Plan A before I wrote the Plan B letter.

How can he think its acceptable to tell me such a lie about her not being there? He seems to continue to try to play me for a fool. Right?

Mimi,

How has your disrespectful actions outweighed his acts of adultery? Ask him to explain that.

Now do you feel safe with him there? CAn you afford to be on your own while he goes out there to find himself and know whether he wants to spend his time 'talking to ow in his underwear' vs working on his family (who at this time sound like they need a father and H more than ever).

IMHO, right now he sounds like he will take you right back to before or worse. Do you want that? You say he is in denial, how long has he been that way? How can he heal if he is in denial?

Just my thoughts and hope it stimulates others to post even better ones.

Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart.

For me, I had to kick my Ws out several times....each time he took that title back, out he went. Yea I heard the same line (I lied to you because I didn't want to hurt you and I was only talking to her because she was sooo upset - let's see that was during a 'supposed suicide' call to me while he was at a motel with her. Of which I got a nasty call from her afterwards - now what do you think they were talking about?) Hm.... in my case, I got a report from the police....... OW and the WS were brazen....they were a few blocks from where I worked about 20 minutes from her home! Go figure. Talk is cheap! Aren't you worth more?

Jmho,
L.

Orchid,
Thanks! You all are really helping me to see how he is playing games with my mind. I can't understand how he gets to me. He's trying to convince me that I deserved what I have gotten. I will wake up in the morning and tell him NC letter or OUT. No ifs, ands or buts.

Is that the right attitude?

Should I write him letter tonight or wake up and tell him. I think a letter would be better. I might chicken out before morning.

Mimi,

Your response takes me back to last year. I can see myself in your situation. It even makes me chuckle since I also wondered if I should 'wake him up'. Well in my case I did wake him up. Several times. You see my Ws uses sleep as an escape and he is a major conflict avoider.

The day I was strong enough to tell him to go get the D was 3/3/01. I remember since it was the 1st Saturday in March at 7:15am. He had just got into his place (rented room - so much for moving up in life with the OW) at 4:30am from his night job. Didn't matter. I work him up, briefly said, 'ok I am ready go get it' and hung up. He called back and said go get what? I said the D and hung back up. Woke him up big time. He was dazed and confused (much like the fog but this time he knew it also). He wanted to talk but I didn't. See I had just had a great dream where I realized that I was not a cast off unwanted person like the OW kept trying to tell him I was. I was an am a vibrant, intelligent woman whose needs required respect, honor, loyalty, cherishing and love. More than a WS could ever give as long as he kept that title.

Well I had to tell him that several times since we had false recovery episodes. Each time I got stronger. But you must be emotionally ready for him to take that statement and run. Are you?

I have to go and get dinner for my family. Catcha later.

L.

I just got all pumped up and wrote a letter that I will leave at his bedside. It states write a No Contact letter tomorrow or find someplace to live. No, I don't think that I am emotionally ready. However, I can't just sit here and take his response to me. He will put me off again tomorrow and probably talk to her.

Hi Mimi,

So are you ready for him to move out? If so, will you help him pack or let him do it all himself? Are you afraid he might destroy or take something that has value or purpose for you or your family? Are you financially secure if he leaves?

These are some of the real things that face these utlimatums. If he accuses you of trying to control or give him an ultimatum, what will you say? Be prepared. Don't be afraid to agree with him. Mine did that to me, so I agreed, ok I did give you an ultimatum because I needed to, now what? That is when I learned that it was a bullying tactic on his part. I called his bluff and it was smoke. Good for me but still a bit harrowing when it happened.

JMHO,
L.

Whatever you decide to do...be sure you're ready to follow through with it. You must stand firm. For if you don't, he'll never take you seriously.

Don't threaten...do. So proceed with caution.

btw...I also personally would have had to make a stand...I will NOT ever knowingly share my marriage with a third party. But that's me, that's where I am in my life. So, while I agree with the other replies...I just want you to be very sure that you're willing to live with your decision.

Good Luck!

sidenote: His explaination was a dozzie...he's talking to someone who isn't even in the room and he's having to do it in his underwear! Yeah...and I've got some really nice ocean front land I'd like to sale in CO. Any takers????

mimi - I hope you read this before he reads that letter.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by catch22222:
<strong>as much as I would love nothing more than to tell you with clear conscience to Plan A him YOU must go to a firm Plan B letter, there are examples posted just recently, and DO NOT sleep on same bed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">mimi - I couldn't disagree more with this advice.

catch may be speaking of what would have worked in his situation, but this is contrary to the prevailing wisdom on this forum, IMHO.

You are no where CLOSE to Plan B for two fundamental reasons:

1. You have not completed Plan A - I do not read much humbleness on your part for helping to create the poor marital environment that existed prior to the affair. Basically, how have you addressed the "causes" for the affair according to your H? For example, how have you addressed the "respect" problem you mentioned in your other thread?

2. He is home.

Absolutely, sleep in the same bed!!! Plan A is all about discovering what ENs of his haven't been being met while continuing to meet all that you can.

Why would you NOT want to sleep in the same bed? I'll answer for you: out of your own pride, to punish him, to make a statement, and for your principles, right?

Do you wanna be right, or do you wanna be married?

No contact is an entirely different matter. The only letter writing that ought to be going on in your house is a No Contact letter from him to OW. But I don't expect this is gonna happen easily. You cannot force him to do this - if you do and he obliges, it'll be just to appease you and there'll be nothing backing it.

I hope you weigh this conflicting advice carefully. I may be wrong and I hope you get additional views. The truth is that none of us knows exactly what you should do and either course - kick him out or take him in may either work or fail.

But one thing is virtually certain - the affair will not last. When it ends, do you want to be in the position to establish a better marriage for your family, or lapse into the same old thing? If you show no signs of fixing your faults, why would your H willingly return to try to work on a better marriage once the affair ends? Why not show him that you're capable of changing in the meantime? Kicking him out will be counterproductive to recovery, IMHO.

WAT

<small>[ January 02, 2003, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

WAT-

You are 100% correct in your observation: as much as I would love nothing more than to tell you with clear conscience to Plan A him YOU must go to a firm Plan B letter, there are examples posted just recently, and DO NOT sleep on same bed ....I did recieve a college try Plan A from W, and at times reciprocated and turned away from ww behavior, obviously not enough!

I'd like to start a thread directed to you, as I have some questions (stay tuned)...Humility is something, dare I speak on W's behalf too, we rarely engaged in. Specifically, being a blended family carried tremendous weight in the pride of flesh category (most mornings we'd all be like participants in a prize fight)...Neither W or myself assumed role of official!

I'll get back to you.

Thanks!

mimi-

Please accept my apologies for projecting my situation onto yours. I missed the mark on this one and did not apply principles in objective fashion... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

JD

<small>[ January 02, 2003, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: catch22222 ]</small>

WAT,
In regards to addressing the causes for the affair, my WS states that he realizes that things can't be changed FAST enough for him. He states that he cannot tolerate any missteps on my part. He states that any disrespect at all enrages him. He continues to want me to "through my son out" of the house for talking back to him. He does not explain how this would be accomplished. You may be right. I do see him as being unreasonable. He realizes this and does not like it that I view him in this way. He is open in stating that he wants me to go along with what he wants to do; he wants to be in charge since I have been in charge for so long. This is EXTREMELY important to him.

Why not sleep in the same bed? I've been feeling extremely uncomfortable with the thought of him having been with another woman. This is just really hitting home to me for the first time after seeing him in his underwear at the hotel.

At this point, I don't understand why he feels the need to leave in order to give me a chance. He states that staying with me increases his animosity. What do you think?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>At this point, I don't understand why he feels the need to leave in order to give me a chance. He states that staying with me increases his animosity. What do you think?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's consolidate these threads. I'll reply on the other thread.

WAT

quote:

"I don't understand why he feels the need to leave in order to give me a chance."

Give you a chance?????? He should feel lucky that you MAY give him a chance.... You catch him in his underwear with another woman and you are worried about what YOU did wrong?????

Here is what I think you should tell him.. And I think it is what WORKS the best of anything that can be done....

Tell him that you have done some thinking, and that you agree that maybe he needs some time alone to sort things out.. then tell him this.... that you also need some time to sort things out... that maybe it would be for the best if he left. Maybe we should spend some time apart....

Do it firmly, confidently and yet respectfully.
Act as if you are happy about the chance to see what life has in store for you. If he wants to have her, then fine, but you cant have me too........

You will respect yourself much more this way. You seem to be leaning this way and I want to encourage you to follow through.....

I can see that this man does not think you have a backbone because of the comment he made about you not throwing your son out.. He is doing the same thing now to you....

When he contacts you... just be nice, pleasant,and upbeat,Act like you are going somewhere with your new life.... Do not ask him ONE question about your relationship or what he is doing. Just be polite and let him be the one to get curious about what YOU are up to and what YOU are thinking.

The greatest error people make when trying to save a relationship is to reveal way to much information about what they are thinking...


Maybe I do not understand Plan A or something....
I cannot in my mind, see how letting him sleep in your bed and then staying with another woman at the same time is doing a good Plan A.....

How can telling him that you would rather be alone than share him with another woman not be the best and strongest message to wake him up at some point?????? Especially if you follow through on your decision.... Hold strong......

Work on yourself while he is away... Maybe wondering if he made a mistake, maybe wondering if you would take him back......

That is what happens most often in the mind of the wayward spouse when you let them go and stop all pursuit..

We also know by the many threads on this site, that Plan A rarely works to get them back.. And if they do come back, there are months and months of agony and pain... Look at many of the wayward spouses on here who are now trying to get the former left person back.... Notice the common thread of what happened in these situations.... The betrayed person got a life without the betrayer and decided that they too, had choices about where the relationship would head..... Interesting..........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Keepmvn4wrd:
<strong>quote:
When he contacts you... just be nice, pleasant,and upbeat,Act like you are going somewhere with your new life.... Do not ask him ONE question about your relationship or what he is doing. Just be polite and let him be the one to get curious about what YOU are up to and what YOU are thinking.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">mimi - this is about the only informed statement in Keepmvn4wrd's post.

OK, maybe this one, too:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Work on yourself while he is away... Maybe wondering if he made a mistake, maybe wondering if you would take him back......</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So much for honesty with this one, huh?....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The greatest error people make when trying to save a relationship is to reveal way to much information about what they are thinking... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">'Nuff said.

Carefully evaluate everything you read here. Like I said before, I hope you get other opinions and these recommendations are another view. We are amatuers and we may not know what we're saying, but one thing I think you can take to the bank: go slow. Don't make decisions in haste. Time is on your side.

WAT

WAT:
Why do say "time is on your side"? I'm feeling like I don't have anytime. This morning he said he wanted to separate because of finding the home situation intolerable. Also, I did that LBing this morning, big time.

Of course, he was supposed to leave today and he is not home yet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>WAT:
Why do say "time is on your side"?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because the track record on these things is that they will end. No matter WHAT you do, the odds are that the affair will end and your H and young, sweet OW will not live happily ever after. You do not have to help this process along.

Further, you CANNOT do ANYTHING to help it along. You can only make it worse. To hasten its end, do not interfere with it.

So your focus should be on preparing for its end - preparing for rebuilding your marriage.

None of this means that there are any gurantees. They might live happily ever after. You might not get a chance to rebuild. I didn't. But the odds are in your favor.

WAT

WAT:
What you are saying is interesting. That's almost exactly what my husband told me. He wants me to work on getting things right with myself and the children. He states he will be checking in to see how its going. He thinks this will give him time to remember the good things about our relationship and then he likely come back home.

My take on this was that he wants to go outside and play with permission rather than secretly to prevent the motel drama from occurring again.
What do you think?

Your take could be right on. Hard to say, but logical for the illogical WS logic. Confusing, right?

Basically, he's rationalizing. Please don't try to make sense out of his statements. You'll go nuts trying to analyze his words. Fog talk. He will say anything to perpetuate the feeling and argue in his defense. Remember? - he came to the motel door in his boxers and tried to explain it away. That's proof enough that he thinks he can pass anything off. Believe me when I say we've seen it all here, although that one is a real winner.

WAT