Well, my "killing" of my former self seems to have been premature. I did it so that my W could come to the forum and see the feedback I am getting nowadays that "I know better" than I did after D-day, and so she could seek help herself. But, she hasn't. She doesn't seem interested. She's not interested in Cing, or doesn't have the time. She won't read any textbooks. We sometimes talk, and we seem to get somewhere for a day or so at a time, but we always go back to the way it's been the past 12 years while the A was going on, and contact still continues. We just celebrated our 27th anniversary. I made hotel reservations and we had a good time, but just 3 days later, contact resumed and our interactions returned to "normal". I think I'm a pretty patient man, and I genuinely want what's best for my W, even if she decides that's the OM. But I don't think we're going to have a 28th anniversary.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

T-zero,

Sorry to here about the developments. But, do have some patience. You are not yet to the one year mark on this thing and you do have a lot of outside stresses in your life as does your W. Perhaps as some of these things become resolved she will reevaluate the situation. Congrats on the 27th Anni. though.

JL

T-zero,

I'm so sorry to hear how you're feeling, and that your wife keeps going back to her old habits, even after all your hard work, and that amazing anniversary treat.

I tell you, I feel for you! In so many ways I feel like where I am at is parallel to you and your W. My H has no interest in counselling, no interest in changing, and still displays behaviours that drive me nuts like he used to display prior to my A.

I'll try to have some more patience if you do! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know how hard it is 2 do. (I couldn't resist using that little #2!)

Let me know if you want me to get out the 2x4 and use it on your W, although I'm generally a non-violent, even passive person.

Take care T-zero,

Jen

<small>[ January 03, 2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

<small>[ January 03, 2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

(Sorry - darn computer wouldn't seem to post, but then it did it over and over again!)

<small>[ January 03, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

T-Zero, So sorry to hear that things are still not improving in your situation. I was very hopeful, especially in light of the anniversary and the "get-away." I think you have been more than patient. I just feel so badly for you. I really do believe that if she were to leave you for OM, she would be really sorry she did in the very near future. The fog is just so thick...

I'm wondering... did you discuss anything relationship-wise during your celebration of your anniversary? Was there any reason (in your wife's mind, I mean) for her to decide not to remain in contact with OM? Or did you keep your conversations completely neutral? IMHO, you may have gotten to the point where that is not in your best interest.

Only you will know when it's time to take a stand. I just wish your wife would realize what she stands to lose before it's too late. I know that you know you deserve better than this. It just appears that maybe she will need something to really get her attention, and to let her know that OM being in the picture will no longer be tolerated while you two are married. At this point, with him in the picture, I can see why she would be resistant to Cing and books, and help in general. How can she work on improving the M with OM around? She can't. It would be half-hearted at best. And it sure would not be honest.

I am so sorry for your situation. I am just afraid that she's been Plan A'd for so long, she just really doesn't see a need to make a change. She likely won't change until she has to, one way or the other.

JMHO.

MT

Hi Jen. Thanks for dropping bye! (I get those multiposts a lot, too!).

MT:

I didn't talk R with her on our anniversary. We just had a good time. I HAVE restated my boundaries lately, with the one about two weeks ago being pretty unequivocal, I thought. I had concluded with "you need to make a decision soon, because I'm about to make it for you." I truly want her happiness first and foremost, and believe that even if we DV, I will love her always. I just don't need to live with her and be married to her if she's going to dilute her affections with that turd of an OM in her life at all.

His W is having a revenge A, and went with her OM out of state for the holidays. So, OM has been putting pressure on my W to come live with him. The man's a loser, and his actions over the past 12 years show me he's thoughtless and stupid as well. I'm just getting tired of waiting for my W, an otherwise very intelligent woman, to pull her head out of her nether regions and realize it as well. She won't take that kind of pressure from me, so why does she put up with it from him? Oh well, the only thing I can control here is my attitude. I'll try to keep that up for a while longer... ...again.

Hi T-Zero,

I can only say I'm sorry.

When you said that you told your DW that you are almost ready to make her decision for her--and that you suspect that OM is starting to pressure her--something that I read yesterday came immediately to mind. I will go find it and post the address--it is about what happens from Christmas time through Valentine's Day. It might help you form a plan that is specific to this time of year.

Take care T-zero

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T-zero:
<strong>
I didn't talk R with her on our anniversary. We just had a good time. I HAVE restated my boundaries lately, with the one about two weeks ago being pretty unequivocal, I thought. I had concluded with "you need to make a decision soon, because I'm about to make it for you." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">T-zero - this is good. It's good that you have made your feelings known to your wife. Did she respond to this statement in any way that leads you to believe she understood what you were saying? Like she understands just exactly what decision you're waiting for her to make? Has she said anything about making this decision? I'm just wondering what she's thinking...

Is OM now of the belief that it's over with his W, and that he would belong to your W alone? I'm puzzled... is it unacceptable if his W does it, but okay for him??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

MT

I found it....

http://www.clpress.com/hidden_signs.html

Where to click:
On the right under AW's pic there is a yellow box with red lettering that says....

The Christmas Valentine Syndrome: The most dangerous time of the year for marriages.

Part One is the BS's viewpoint during this time. Part Two is the WS's viewpoint during this time. Part Three is AW's overview of the whole thing.

(Edited to insert a missed letter in the address)

<small>[ January 03, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: YetAgain ]</small>

YA: Thanks, I'll look for it!

MT:

"T-zero - this is good. It's good that you have made your feelings known to your wife. Did she respond to this statement in any way that leads you to believe she understood what you were saying?"

Definitely she knows what I've been saying.

"Like she understands just exactly what decision you're waiting for her to make?"

I have told her she needs to make the decision to have a relationship with me or him, not both (in my case, though he clearly would tolerate it, has for the past 12 years, after all, right? But then, he's a known liar and cheat).

"Has she said anything about making this decision? I'm just wondering what she's thinking..."

No, other than to state again that she can't.

"Is OM now of the belief that it's over with his W, and that he would belong to your W alone?"

What I hear is what she tells me. I've not talked to him or snooped into their convos via email. She says his W has always been a loser, but we know that a lot of that is rationalization. So I really have no idea what kind of person she is. She DID make them move after the first A, and made OM promise not to speak to or see my W again. She didn't tell me about the A at the time, though, which bothers me. I was going to tell her this time, but she found out on her own again, about 5 months after I did (through OM's carelessness). OM did tell my W that he had a chance to date last summer after his W tossed him out, but that he felt he would be cheating on MY W, not his. I said that's absurd, and that angered my W. That was early-mid last month.

"I'm puzzled... is it unacceptable if his W does it, but okay for him???"

Apparently!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> My W figures his M is over, and disagrees with me when I say that anything could be fixed if the parties involved are willing to make the effort. But then my W and OM continue to email each other, so they prevent any progress on THAT end, at least. On this end, we're stuck as well, but we're together and communicating, because I WON'T separate and let our imaginations run wild like happened to me last July. I will DV if it looks like we can't rebuild.

YA:

I get an error message when I try that link.

I missed a letter--it's fixed now and works. Sorry about that!

YA:

I read it. Interesting story, but rather different from my sitch. I certainly am aware of the possible reaction to applying pressure to my W to "decide" something now. It could just as easily result in her deciding to leave as to stay and work on things. In a way, OM is "single" because he's in an apartment on his own now, and he's lonely and wondering why my W won't leave me and live with him. At some point, I have to be able to confront my W about her inability to decide, with full knowledge that I might push her off the fence in his direction. I'm trying to find out when that point is for me. In the meantime, I'm doing my best to cherish the time we do spend together. And many times it is very nice. Just not all that deep, is the problem.

T-zero,

Hang in there. Life is good no matter the direction it takes. I'm sorry to hear about the latest developments.

I don't post much anymore, because I have been quite occupied lately. Finally got the new house pretty well under roof, and it is progressing rather nicely.

Won't be long before I will be able to make my "house", a "home".

BTW, how is yours coming along?

FWIW, T-zero, I can honestly say that your satisfaction with your life is going to be found in yourself. I couldn't possibly be convinced of that earlier in my sitch, but it is really true. It is so very true that the level of our success is not measured by what we gain or have in life, but rather how we handle what we fail to achieve.

There are always going to be great things in your life, and that is where they exactly are...

In YOUR life....

Keep them alive.

HCII

<small>[ January 04, 2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: hcii ]</small>

T-0,

I fully understand about this taking its toll. I think with these WS who engage in really long-term A's, they get really messed up. My WW was a smart person, too - I thought we shared a lot of the same values, etc. I guess I was wrong. And therein lies a lot of comfort for me: Because I know I'd only marry someone I had similar values with.

My present very tough Plan B stance has been really good for me personally. It's not for some, sure. For me, it's been a lot easier since the meds and since I started to change my thinking quite a bit. I've decided that I'm happier being alone than being with someone who I don't feel safe with at all. Plan B has "trained" that into me.

But of course, I'm stubborn. I'm happy to let her make the decisions that mean life or death of the M - at last for now. I know that her indecision and inability to be truly open has harmed her relationship with OM so much... I'm sure if your W actually did move in with OM, things would change very quickly. It's all fun and games while they play by their own rules.

hcii:

Good to hear things are progressing where you live! We've had a roof on our house for about 6 months now, and we still can't move back in! Just got the mold report and we're going to have to stay out for another 5 months while they kill it, plus we're still only just now seeing the siding and windows going back in upstairs. Getting electrical, plumbing, heating and AC installed this month, too. Paint next, then down with the scaffolding...

I really like what you said. It is so very true. It is also true that it's hard to see out of the present stalemate while in the thick of it. But I'll keep craning my neck!

J.R.:

As an example of just how "messed up" this sitch is: My W told me in August, after my "plan B attempt", that "my IC says it's not unreasonable for you to expect me to stop talking to OM." After my plan B attempt, I changed my plan A and didn't talk about our R or OM at all for about 3 or 4 months. We got along better, but I knew contact continued. I told her "it hurts" when I saw her emailing him when I walked into the house at that moment, sometime in September or October, I think. We then began having more serious talks about all of this in mid-December, so I said: "you told me your IC said it wasn't unreasonable for me to expect you to stop contacting OM. Can you stop contacting OM?" And she replied "I can't do that." That's how messed up this is. in about 2 weeks it'll be a year since d-day for me, and about 15 months since she's seen him. I'm not going to celebrate, though! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />