Mimi,

When the WS got antsy with me and I was strong enough to say it, I said "look, if you need to go see the OW for whatever.....just go.... say it and go." His retort was that was not the reason and now he made a statement. If he went after that, he was now labeled a liar by his own words not mine.

So my advice is if you and the children feel like you are being 'setup' tell him so. I also said that right now the WS kinda 'smells like he is up to something stinky'. exact words.

I wanted him to hang himself with his own words. That way when he gets mad it is harder to get mad since you didn't say anything, he did.

This is babbling back at it's best!!!!

JMHO,
L.

He came right back home and hasn't mentioned anything else about the bills or the bank account. Maybe it was just a passing thought of his. He is being real chatty with me about the news, etc. However, he is extremely anxious. He keeps getting up, going out to his car, emptying the trash, etc. I'm playing it COOL.

OK, mimi - keep seeing the humor and absurdity in this. It will help you, I promise.

But when the time comes, you're gonna have to dish out a LOT of compassion. No more making fun of him (secretly) then. Understand?

WAT

I am feeling sorry for him. I was just thinking about that.

He has depended on me to pay all the bills. He hasn't written a check to pay a bill in 25 years. Maybe(?) that is hitting home to him and he feels the need to become more involved in the finances. It would help with the MAN OF THE HOUSE factor to include him more in that process. Maybe(?) that is what my WS is trying to say.

Through all this I'm discovering how difficult it has been for him to communicate his need to me and also I have not really paid enough attention to what he has been trying to say.

MiMi,

I can surely relate to that. So for us to be in recovery, my personal input to it was to do less.

Go figure. I am the one balancing the budget shopping, cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc. etc. etc..... what was the WS doing? I thought he would appreciate my extra extra efforts instead I got paid back by the A. So when he wanted to come back, he had to agree to do his share and then some. For beginners we agreed to break him in and not overwhelm him. Well that probation period is over.... he now has responsibilities and more is to be added. This 'new' home environment is not geared to make him do less but make him do more!

He seems to like it. Oh, another piece is that he must grumble when it is legit not be a whinney but about it. Valid compliants are allowed by all family members but must be accompanied with working options open for discussion. So now all are involved not just me. This is a work in progress so while it may sound like we have it together....time will tell.

Just more food for thought.

L.

The worse part of today has been his continuous complaining, complaining. I'm thankful he's here and I have been listening but acts like a CAGED ANIMAL. That's my best analogy. I almost am tempted to set him free.

I would suggest that you immediately go to the ATM, if possible, and get out as much cash as possible. I think it is extremely likely that he is planning to clean out the account. If any of the bills are in his name alone, do not pay them. I made the mistake of making a large payment to my H's credit card from our income tax refund, as we had planned - and the only result was that he ended up better off. If any of the bills are in your name, pay as much as possible.When my H first left, he continued to have his paycheck deposited in our joint account, and I continued to pay the all the bills. Then suddenly, without warning, he stopped. I should have gone to court immediately to get temporary orders requiring him to pay the mortgage as well as reasonable child support, rather than depending on him being reasonable. Although he was willing to pay a significant amount of child support (though probably less than the court would have required), not having a court ordered amount allowed him to get out of continuing to pay a reasonable amount of child support.

It is likely that the nicer you are to him, the angrier he will get, specifically because it makes it more difficult for him to justify leaving. The guiltier he feels, the more he will displace his feelings of self-contempt onto you. I found that treating my H with decency turned out to be terribly counterproductive, and just resulted in making it easier for him to leave us in poverty. It is far better to stand firm and not let him walk all over you.

It is no surprise that your kids don't respect him - why would they, when they obviously know he is having an affair? People don't deserve respect just because of their position.

Although marriage builders has some concepts that work well in functional marriages, I think the standard advice can be extremely harmful in cases where the WS is displacing his anger on his spouse and looking for excuses to justify his actions. The most important thing to do at this point is to protect yourself financially.

Ok Mimi,

Here's a drastic but may be worthwhile item.

When he gets angry, look at him with a wrinkled up funny look, kinda puzzled looking. When he asks 'WHY ARE U LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT?' Gently reply (without too much of a giggle), 'you have something on your face, go look in the mirror'.

This will deflect his anger for a momment and then go behind him and tell him to share his anger with the mirror BEFORE he unloads it on anyone else and if it looks ok in the mirror, the rest of you will decide if you want to see his face in that state. That reflection technique works pretty well for me. I have used it on the Ws and 2 SILs (younger SILs who were having attitude issues while growing up).

JMHO,
L.

WAT, MELODYLANE and ORCHID,

What do you think about NELLIE1'S POV? Nellie you've got me thinking. I don't want to LB and increase his anger. He has stayed at home all weekend. However, this may be the quiet before the storm.

IMHO, I agree with Nellie. True plan A did not really work for me. Instead it angered the WS.

I also incorporated Love must be Tough technique. It is by Dr James Dobson.

It is beneficial to be prepared for the worst. Know that and when the WS yells at you, you will be prepared. When they accuse you of whatever, you will be prepared. You will then be enpowered to look them in the eye and walk away to laugh.

You will have given yourself the security you need to survive. Then with that and the help of your support group (family, friends, MB, IC/MC, doctor, neighbors, pets, etc.) you will survive.

JMHO,
L.

Plan A is to reforge the marital connection that has been broken by the A. It is to remind the WS of things they have forgotten pre Dday. Often WS go into the A thinking "My marriage is dead. My spouse doesn't really care about me." In Plan A you show them another way. You show them that you do care, that your marriage= alot of history that isn't so easy to throw away. You remind them of the good times, and you make it clear that you are committed to resurrecting those times. Often in time the difficulties of life with the OP become more clear, and the WS tilts back to the home front.

Re: his asking about money. If he talks about moving out, say calmly, I can't prevent you from moving if that's what you want to do. I'll be really sad and I'll miss you. But if you do decide to move, we need to have a legal separation agreement just to have everything clear between us. Let me know when I should call a lawyer to set that up.

Re: the man of the house stuff. you can invite him to help you pay the bills. Why shouldn't he know how expensive things are? I don't know how the 2 of you interact financially- often that's a big stress as well between spouses. You can take the opportunity to work on that part of your relationship too.

I asked you in another of your threads but you didn't answer- do you think your H wants to have more kids?

Thanks Espoir for your helpful post !

I asked him about kids today. He said he DEFINITELY WILL NOT have anymore kids. MB he got a vasectomy without telling me. One of his friends is a Urologist.

I was just speaking to him about trying to remember the good times. He is wanting to focus his thinking on all of the bad times.

He is NOT saying that he does not love me. He just acts like it by being so angry at me right now. He has been MORE OVERTLY ANGRY since being caught in the act. Why do you think that is so?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>WAT, MELODYLANE and ORCHID,

What do you think about NELLIE1'S POV? Nellie you've got me thinking. I don't want to LB and increase his anger. He has stayed at home all weekend. However, this may be the quiet before the storm.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mimi,

You are in a situation where your attitude in Plan A has had a favorable response from your WS. He is NOT responding angrily to Plan A, but responding very favorably so far. I say stick with what is working and if he begins to respond badly, then try something different.

I would suggest sticking to MB principles FIRST and if they aren't effective, then looking at other options. However, you can see that your WS is responding to having his needs met so I think we are on the right track here.

Mimi,

He needs to be angry at you in order to justify his bad behavior and shift the blame. That is why it is so important to NOT give him justifications. With no one else to blame, he has to start looking at himself and that is one of the first steps on the road to recovery.

Are you doing ok tonight?

Mimi,

I completely agree with MelodyLane in regards to her response to you about H asking about the bank balance and you needing to go secure the account.

Your H's question about the balance and the request for you to send all the bills out may be innocent, but I for one wouldn't take any chances. Be suspicous, don't be naive.

The morning after our D-Day, I was at the bank when it opened and moved everything,(except money for bills already written and a small amount of buffer) into a new account that only I had access to.

I felt justified in doing this because I sincerely did not know what my FWH was capable of at the time of his A. He obviously did not have our family's best interests in mind then, so I had to be the grown-up for both of us.

I certainly was not going to add to MY pain & stress over the A by worrying about finances or any of OUR money going to the OW. I had to make sure that I had the means to take care of our son no matter what H decided to do.

Be careful & take care of yourself & kids first.

I realize that with your WH's issues regarding the kids coming before him that he may not take kindly to this move on your part, but that's really tough sh*t for him - he has forever changed the rules by having (and continuing to have) this A.

Keep plan A'ing him, just realize that plan A does not mean that YOU have to remain vulnerable.

Good luck,
Shelle

Hi All:

I'm interested in your thoughts.

I finally broke down last night after the stressful weekend. I'm thankful that my WS stayed home but, you guys, know that it was tense. It seemed almost like a prison sentence. I guess for both of us.

After my long cry in the bathroom which I thought he did not know about, I got into the bed with him. He likes me to go to bed when he does so that was a PLAN A behavior. However, I just had to ask him this one question. Why deal with our problems by having a SEXUAL relationship with someone else? I expressed this in a questioning, nonaccusatory manner. I further discussed how that was the most special, part of our relationship which has endured and gotten better even during our most difficult times. By the way, I am looking real good right now. It's kind of a good thing that I am not able to eat because I have gotten very thin. I can tell that my WS continues to be highly physically attracted to me and I have been subtly sexually provocative.

The sex talk did seem to hit a chord with him. I asked could I hug him. He said Yes, didn't push me away ,and ,this is interesting, told me EXACTLY how to hug him without TICKLING him.

He did remark that he did not like it that I had been crying and he wants me to "TALK RIGHT".

This morning he woke up with a different attitude. He said "Have a Great Day" and asked me to try to explain to him "WHY" I didn't put him first and undermined him with the children, etc. He said that the answer to the WHY is very important to him. I asked him to also do me the favor of explaining "WHY" he used an A as a solution to his problems with the marriage. He responded to this whole conversation positively. He seemed more like his old self.

I also thanked him for the weekend, told him that I would miss him if he decided to leave , reiterated the No Contact Request and told him to do the favor of letting me know when I need to see a lawyer.

I'm playing it cool on the bank account although this may be a mistake. We have A LOT of other funds which he can't easily touch so I don't want to mess up my PLAN A right now. I looked him straight in the face and said "You won't be mean and cruel enough to take the money, would you". He seemed sincerely shocked that I would think he would do this and did not seem to have that plan at all. That's just my gut instinct. My gut instinct led me to that motel room so I'll trust it at least for today.

I'm looking forward to your responses. Look for my post on SEX tonight because I have questions about this. I'm at work now and will be pretty busy for the rest of the day. However, I will be able to read your posts. Stay in touch. I am really depending on all of you. It is really helping me.

mimi - first, to Nellie's POV: I believe this advice could be 100% on the mark - unless it's not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

No reflection on Nellie, just the practical fact that none of us really can know.

So, I recommend you get a counseling session with Steve Harley ASAP. Similar to Nellie's advice, he could agree completely with what you're doing and what we've been saying - unless he doesn't.

How 'bout this idea? Clearly your H's big issue is his perceived disrespect from the family and his perception that you're undermining his good intentions with the children. Perhaps you should suggest some family counseling with a local counselor to explore this specific issue. No marriage/affair talk. Just exploratory surgery to get at the root of the family problems (that may be the root of the affair problems). Solicit his participation so that his concerns are represented. Again, the target here would be improving family functioning. In other words, a family Plan A.

Anybody?

WAT

The problem is that he does not see himself as having a problem. I'm thinking that I might need to make a decision to separate because of his crappiness. I guess after being here at work I'm reflecting on how I've been busted the past few days. SO CONFUSED!!!!

My point exactly!

It's a family problem! You all have a piece of it and he's not willing to own up to his piece. He may open up a bit with an unbiased counselor.

WAT

I'll ask him. I'm not feeling hopeful.