I realize that I have not TRULY given my "story" here yet I have ask for help and advice on bits and pieces along. I have stared getting it together as it is long and I will post it all later. I have a church activity that I have to go to so I cannot do it right now. Thank you for listening and caring. Later. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Whenever you're ready....

Sorry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I will work on it and be back later. Thanks.

<small>[ January 06, 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

I was wondering ... would you mind terribly if I asked you to edit your previous post? I'd find it easier to respond if you made numbered paragraphs ... then I could approach this in smaller bites refering to each paragraph (by number) after I had time to think about each "part".... It's too big a bite for me. (I'm OLD)
THANKS .... remember the "wasp's nest" convo??? LOL!

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

PS ... you are NOT crazy!!!!

Whew! What a relief! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Thanks for the reassurance.The "cracker factory" was my next consideration! Don't mean to offend anyone,it's just good to have a laugh.
Later.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

Soooo much easier on my eyes!! The length doesn't scare me ... but I get lost without paragraphs. Your H sounds sooo like mine when he began his A ... loving and sweet ... and weird.

I am working right now ... this is going to be quite therapeutic for me as well.

Pep

I'll NEVER eat another See's candy again .... well .... I really can't promise you THAT! I used to get hives when I went into a Victoria's Secret (my See's candy-trigger equivalent) ... but.... I worked that out eventually .... and now I can go into the store without a second thought.

Going to lunch ... more later.

#1 .... so there you are, doing family duty helping your pregnant D ... and H disappears. Grrrrrrrrrrr (He was gambling, all right, just not the way you thought he was gambling).

Do you know if this is simply the 1st sign of suspicion that you noticed, or if this was actually the beginning of the A?

#2 The glow of his A was rubbing off on you for awhile! This happened to me too. There was a time when my H began a month of daily sex .... and this was daily no matter what! I thought I had died and gone to heaven <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ... but, it was an afterglow effect of his being in love with someone else! I also think, this is a way the infidel begins to develop an internal defensive mechanism ...

"SEE .... I can have my private life outside of marriage and still be a wonderful husband at the same time. I am making two women happy! Ain't I the stud!"

#3 I found "items" too. Condoms and a jar of vaseline ...H said: "I bought those for us Pepper. I thought we could spice things up!" .... Naw, I knew right then he was fibbing. I think my H unconsciously wanted to get caught ... so he left evidence for me to discover. In a way, it is like telling us without saying anything. "PLEASE help me ... I am doing something I cannot respect and I don't know how to confess or how to stop" Do you think your H wanted to get caught or wanted to stop ... so he left discoverable items accidently? My H said to me after D-day : "I didn't know how to stop." ... And, at the time, I was pretty harsh and said that was a load of crappola and when you want to stop ... you just stop. Now, I understand what H was saying a lot better. They often DO want to stop. It is sooooo stressful. But, they're hooked on the buzz.

#4 Again, I can relate. My H drank very little when we married. When his 18 month A began ... his drinking began, and then became completely uncontrolled. Your H was suffering pangs of conscience ... so he "medicates" YOU with flowers and a sorry card .... and then he "medicates" himself with booze. The guilty suffer. They begin to hate themselves. The guilt hurts ... so they numb the hurt .... but keep doing the behavior that causes the hurt. Vicious cycle.

During my H'a A his father was very ill, and slowly dying of alcoholic cirrhosis (ironic, no?) Sooooo H's weird moods and drinking were because he was "stressed out about his dad". Of course, H had to take trips by himself to "be with dad" .... but, OW lives nearby... and it was a convenient thing to also see OW every time he went to minister to his dying dad.There is usually some other event that can be blamed for the moodiness and the depression and the "self-medicating."

#5 ... THIS part made me smile!!! If anything is going to drive a WS crazy ... it is being loved tenderly by the spouse they are cheating and betraying! Must have made your H feel like caca .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ouch ooch yikes! GOOD FOR YOU!!! This must be a thorn he has yet to pull from his side.

"I would not add to his problems with suspicions and accusations." ... hence H's need to "leave evidence" laying around the house for you to find ...so you WOULD develop suspicions and eventually get a glimpse of his real agony.. he was a fraud and he could not stand himself.

#5 cont.

Our D day was the day after Xmas. The day before Xmas I was nuzzling H in the car... telling him all sorts of complimentary things about what a great guy I had married. H had a sinus infection that week. I babied him and nursed him with love and tenderness ... and he felt worse and worse about himself.

#6 ... "promise, cry, apologize" ..more suffering by H. Making himself sick, really.

One time I was seeing a patient for repeated vaginitis. I could find NOTHING wrong with her! She kept returning with incessent "burning". Finally, about the 5th return, I said, are you having a burning anywhere else? Like a burning conscience? She burst into tears <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> and confessed she'd had a one night stand affair and now hated herself. We talked. I gave her absolution (just kidding <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).... but, she and I agreed she actually needed spiritual help not medical help.

The guilty suffer.

#7 d-day ... what can I say?.... a hand grenade exploding from the chest... the sudden loss of gravity .... all air sucked from the body ... equlibrium vanishes ...

"He refused" to call OW there and then and tell her it was over ... the coward. He is no longer THE STUD making 2 women happy ... he is THE RAT making 1 woman miserable and he is too chicken to call the OW and make her miserable too! Ego steps in and sinks him. Maybe he's afraid of her a little bit? (I remember the craxzy way she's acted from your previous posts)

#8 H "says" he called her and broke it off .... do you believe this? I don't. I think he called her and said something like "We have to cool it. My wife knows. I made the biggest mistake of my life ... she found the *stuff* you gave me. I have to make things right with her." ... NOT "good-bye FOREVER OW I never want to see you or speak to you ever again for as long as I live."

#9 NINE freaking days !!!! Whoa! Did you call the police? No contact what-so-ever???? This is BIG TIME coward's way. Sorry, your H needs to grow a spine. He is severely lacking in the courage department.

#10 .... just more bull**** lies to cowardly back away from the real world.

#11 .... How did you know enough to "Plan A" without ever having read about it? I was completely the opposite! Mean as a snake and about as sweet as sour lemons. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I lost 25 pounds in 6 weeks during that time frame as well. I went 9 days on 2 hours sleep ... and then I asked my MD to "do something". It's amazing you did not report him as a missing person when he went AWOL.

Know what, I may go against the MB grain here ... but I wonder if being so good to your H right after discovery did not send him the wrong message???? Maybe he actually *needed* a swift kick in the [censored] ... to wake him up???? We'll never know, all water under the bridge now ... but, I still wonder.

Is your H a religious or a spiritual man? Had you been attending services regularly with him before the A?

Gotta go for now.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Great analogy of the gambling!
#1. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you know if this is simply the 1st sign of suspicion that you noticed, or if this was actually the beginning of the A?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe it was the beginning of the PA.H and OW admitted it was.
#2. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> this is a way the infidel begins to develop an internal defensive mechanism ...
"SEE .... I can have my private life outside of marriage and still be a wonderful husband at the same time. I am making two women happy! Ain't I the stud!"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Infidel. I like that word for H for now. Maybe not tomorrow but for today.
Yup! Ego,ego.Makes sense.
#3. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you think your H wanted to get caught or wanted to stop ... so he left discoverable items accidently? My H said to me after D-day : "I didn't know how to stop." ... They often DO want to stop. It is sooooo stressful. But, they're hooked on the buzz.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I honestly thought he was pretty careless for not throwing the things away. He had her in my home and that still angers me.He says she did not come here.She told me he invited her to my house but did not deny being here. She had a live in BF of 4 years who had a stroke in the last year they were together.My H took furniture that we had in storage(told me he threw it,perfectly good bedroom furniture, in the trash!) and set the poor man up in an apt to get rid of him so they would have a place to be together.His family had to place him in an assisted living facility as he was not able to take care of himself. I am doing better now as I look at it that she had to be a low down,sleaze ball to come into a wife's home and bed.I did buy another bed,matress set. I am a good detective and I found the burned scented candle containers in the trash and the receipts in the empty grocery bags. I have times when I want to sell the house,his vehicle,the boat and the H,when I think of her being with or in any part of it.I still struggle with having my choice taken away of being with another person. I feel I have now been with her,every man she has ever been with and every person they have ever been with.I could have done without that "glow" being rubbed off on me!I made the choice to be with him but I still think on this at times.
#4. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ] Your H was suffering pangs of conscience ... The guilty suffer. They begin to hate themselves. The guilt hurts ... so they numb the hurt .... but keep doing the behavior that causes the hurt. Vicious cycle.[/QUOTE
H told me that he had lost his feelings for me and for everything.These are some of the things my H has said to me.I was trying to show forgiveness for something I was not even 100% sure he was doing yet he lied and continued passing up opportunities to redeem himself before it went any further.This I cannot understand.
#5. [QUOTE] THIS part made me smile!!! If anything is going to drive a WS crazy ... it is being loved tenderly by the spouse they are cheating and betraying! Must have made your H feel like caca .... ouch ooch yikes! GOOD FOR YOU!!! This must be a thorn he has yet to pull from his side.
he was a fraud and he could not stand himself.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for the validation and compliment.I am afaraid he is still a fraud.
"I babied him and nursed him with love and tenderness ... and he felt worse and worse about himself"???
For now this gives me some comfort.I always think of him having all the fun,feeling the good feelings of a new relationship and all I had was pain.
Amazing. Our situation was becoming known at christmas time as well.H did not get me even a card for our anniversary or christmas.Out of norm.
So my nursing,petting and best of care was making him feel worse?? At the time that would have bothered me but I have to be honest and say that I hope it did,now.I have been getting in touch with my anger lately.

#6 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> .... "promise, cry, apologize" ..more suffering by H. Making himself sick, really. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting!
He lost a lot of weight and looked like he**.Dr could find no medical reason for any of his symptoms.
He also had some other health issues that he did not have before her,had while he was with her and has not had in the past 14 months. Eye infection,boil like sores on his lower abdomen,and prostatitis. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The guilty suffer. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#7. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> d-day ... what can I say?.... a hand grenade exploding from the chest... the sudden loss of gravity .... all air sucked from the body ... equlibrium vanishes ...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Only someone who has gone through the horrible devastation of this kind of betrayal could find words to fit so well. Sorry you know but thankful you have survived and are doing so well.I thank God you are here with us on this board.
#8. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "He refused" to call OW there and then and tell her it was over ... the coward. He is no longer THE STUD making 2 women happy ... he is THE RAT making 1 woman miserable and he is too chicken to call the OW and make her miserable too! Ego steps in and sinks him. Maybe he's afraid of her a little bit? (I remember the craxzy way she's acted from your previous posts)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Iit is so wonderful to have someone stand up for me,call him a coward and tell it like it is about his behavior.It helps more than you know.
#9. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H "says" he called her and broke it off .... do you believe this? I don't.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No. As a matter of fact,he did not tell her anything at all. Not even that I suspected anything. He never told her a thing.
#9. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> NINE freaking days !!!! Whoa! Did you call the police? No contact what-so-ever???? This is BIG TIME coward's way. Sorry, your H needs to grow a spine. He is severely lacking in the courage department.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did report him missing.I became a prisoner in my own home as I was afraid to leave the house or the phone for fear he would call or come back and I would miss him. I ran into town to pay the power bill and thought I saw his vehicle so I made a Uturn and was speeding trying to catch up and was stopped and given a citation. The cop saw I was upset and I explained. He told me to come to court and the judge heard my story and did not make me pay anything,placing me on probation for 3 months not to get another ticket.
#10. I know that now. He could be a rancher by now with all the bull he has become familiar with.I would be his assistant.
#11. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How did you know enough to "Plan A" without ever having read about it? I was completely the opposite! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love this man with all of my being. It is who I am as well. I sure do wish I could have known about this site during those days.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I went 9 days on 2 hours sleep ... and then I asked my MD to "do something". It's amazing you did not report him as a missing person when he went AWOL. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I could not sleep either. I paced the floors all night from back of the house where I could see headlights from the main highway.If car lights came,I would watch to see if it turned down our road,run to the front of the house to see if it turned down my street,then back to the back again. I survived on bottled cokes and air.I had a callous in the palm of my hand from opening and closing the cap on the bottle of coke for 2 months. I remember eating 2 bites of a grilled cheese that my neighbor tried to force me to eat but I could not. I cleaned house(every corner,crease and crack),wrote my H poems,songs and constantly searched for something to give him to read,to listen to or consider.I lived for every second I could speak with him on the phone when he was at work. He would call everyday about 30 minutes before time for him to clockout so I would have a shower,my work all finished(just in case he would say he was coming by),and waiting by the phone for the call. I realize now that he was calling then to make sure I was not at his work place to follow and see where he was going. It is an hour drive so he knew if I was home he had time to get to her beforeI could catch him.
I did report him missing. I edited that out of the first post.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Know what, I may go against the MB grain here ... but I wonder if being so good to your H right after discovery did not send him the wrong message???? Maybe he actually *needed* a swift kick in the [censored] ... to wake him up???? We'll never know, all water under the bridge now ... but, I still wonder.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tend to agree. The coworker that told me where to find him asked me if he could talk to H about what he was doing and I would not agree for a long time.I was afraid it would alienate H further from me.H told him that he wished that he had said something to him sooner. If it was because it would have made a difference in ending the A or if it was so he could be more discreet,I do not know for sure.I asked the ones who knew not to hate him but to show love and concern for him.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is your H a religious or a spiritual man? Had you been attending services regularly with him before the A?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes.We always went everywhere and did everything together.
BTW.I told OW I am a decent,christian woman and that I had even prayed for her that God would convict her of her wrongs and show her grace.She informed me that she is a christain,she had done nothing wrong and that she and H had prayer together in her home.I wonder if they reached past the ceiling? Maybe that is what made H sick with diarrhea saying grace over the meals he ate with her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Sorry,I am being "not nice."
It is all right if you want to indulge in the See's candy. I wear Victoria's Secret goodies sometimes. Some day I will be as far along as you are Pepper.You are giving me that hope and understanding. You have no idea how great it feels to have someone stand up for me,validate my feelings and thoughts,defend me and help me try to make sense of some of this madness. Thank you so very much. It is making a difference.

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

#12 Switching cars in front of OW's house!! .... How TERRIBLE of you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> shame on YOU <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> How could you ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Did you leave the junker with an empty tank of gas? (That's what Pepper would have done) Do you know this ... I took all H's clothing out of "my bedroom" and made a big pile of his stuff on the garage floor. I then painted the bedroom pink, bought very expensive bedding , down comforters, etc. and tried to claim my sleeping space a female sanctuary. I hung beautiful sheer drapes over the head of the bed so the bed looks like it's wearing a soft crown of clouds. (I digress, sorry) ... OW was never in our bed. She was in H's truck however. A big 'ol Ford pickup. I tried to kick the [censored] outta the truck door, but steel vs foot is not in my favor. I refused to get into the truck ... so, he sold it. i honestly have no idea what I'd have done if the A had occured in my house. They did go to OW's house a couple of times. But not in the marital bed, did the deed on the rug in the den. (OW's H told me this)

It is interesting your H said he could not come home to you "because of his shame and guilt" .... THIS I believe. Shame and guilt AND a lack of guts/courage. When a man with some sense of himself as a child of God behaves in such a self-loathing way ... stressing himself out enough to give himself diarrhea ... he probably lacks the "tools" to lift himself from the shame guilt rat-hole he crawled into.

<small>[ January 09, 2003, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

#13 I never consulted an attorney.

"H was blowing money like crazy" ..... grrrrrr. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I went into a bit of a detective frenzy myself. I went over all the long distance phone records ... totaled it up and made a fairly good estimate of how much was spent there. Then I did the same with motel room expenses. Then the gas he bought driving that gas-guzzler Ford to see her ... and restaurant expenses ....well ... you get the idea. I made an estimate of the approximate cost the A had cost us. When OW called me to apologize, she said in a snotty tone of voice: "I said I was sorry. What else do you want from me?" .... I said: "OW .... I want you to pay half the expenses Mr. Pepper spent having this affair. Here's the total amount $$$$ and your half is this $$." ........ silence ..... then she hung up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

#14 Know what ... I am not certain how many months your H had been into the affair at this time??? I think I was lucky in one way ... I was innocent of knowing about the A until the A was just about burned out on it's own . So, D-day for us was the very end of the A.. There were still hidden secrets ... stuff he thought I shouldn't or couldn't find out ... but, there was no more sneaking off to see her ... and when she tried calling H ... he'd call me ... and I'd call her!!! That pissed her off, and she stopped calling H.

#15 D-day 3 is really pathetic. Blubbering sorry when caught red-handed is just so unattractive! Pager frisbee time!!! "Here's your pager .... oops it slipped out of my hand and went flying 50 yards and landed on the road. Sorry dear."

My H had 2 pagers ... one for OW and the other for everyone else.

#16 "Fatal Attraction" act 2 scene 3 ..... OW goes ballistic ... feels used .... fights dirty.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ January 09, 2003, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

#17 ... This is one of the tricky parts of recovery ... you cry and grieve which H cannot stand because makes him feel like a schmuck. If you don't grieve ... you can't vent steam and move forward .... H is not strong enough to witness your pain ... so what happends next ...?

#18 H falls off the monogamy wagon. He might have chosen to grieve his loss, to surrender to his integrity, and dive into self-evaluation ... but, sadly, he was weak again. Lost his courage. "Says the pain of my recovery is too much for him and me." TAKE NOTE .... YOUR pain was too much ... he completely side-steps HIS pain and makes going to MC all about YOUR pain .... interesting, no? That makes it your fault he fell off the wagon you know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> if you'd have the decency not to cry and be upset, everything would be OK ...... NOT!

Can you see the trend of conflict avoidance here? ... not conflict with you .... but his avoidance of internal conflict with his conscience. Remember those old cartoons when the character would have an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other ... both shouting instructions to the confused character in the center <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Do you realize how really very little of this actually has to do with YOU and how you are as a wife, a woman, a lover .... and all that jazz!

Pep