D-Day is at 1 month since the PA was revealed. Since then she's promised not to have physical contact with him, but still continues to have conversations (he is supposed to be a mutual friend).

We're in counseling, she says so it will make it easier for me. She says she only wants to be alone, no OM, no dating, just be alone. She want's to leave this summer when our 2 kids go home to see their Grandparents.

I've tried everything, she is not responding. It's like the more I try the more she pushes me away and locks me out. What do I do.

I know the EA is still going on, even though she won't admit it. I've asked her several times, she denies it, so does he.

Every time I think we take a step forward she runs back 2. I know she's in the fog, but she won't come to terms with it, or at least won't admit it to me.

What do I do? I'm confused, heart broken and feel beaten. Should I come forward with the evidence I have now, or wait? If I come forward now I fear it will drive them deeper undergound.

TM94-

I'm certainly no expert, but it sounds like you're having a tough time with your plan A. The fact that both of you are seeing a C together is very positive but I'd suggest you fine tune the way you communicate with her. Asking lots of questions or laying down ultimatums regarding the OM will force your WW further from you. Read up on the principles from this site and continue to post questions. Good luck!

Should I come forward with the evidence I have now, or wait? If I come forward now I fear it will drive them deeper undergound.
Why should she admit it?

You are correct in that if you show her your evidence, they will make sure they do not get caught the same way.

You could probably show them pictures and they would still deny it. Just tell her you know what is going on and leave it at that.

Well she has finally admitted it. She admitted she is in love with OM. Says she's never loved me, I don't know what love is, she knows she's in love with him.

She's packing today, no idea how or when she will move out. She cannot afford gas money to get back and forth to work.

She has stopped telling me she loves me, still tells him. She is pushing me away so hard and so fast, today is especially bad. She is extremely angry at me for something, won't say what. I think it might be because I talked to friends and OM yesterday, now everyone knows.

I don't know, but I'm working on myself and hoping someday she'll come to her senses and realize what she's doing.

TM94,

Sorry to hear of this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Says she's never loved me, I don't know what love is, she knows she's in love with him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Take that with a grain of fog. Don't let these words get to you. This is similar to what my WW says to me. You would think that there is some kind of secret society where WSs make this stuff up.

You are right to keep in your Plan A. Whatever you do, do not LB in front of her. Keep strong.

I wish I had some wiser words to say. Hang in there.

This is what makes "open" relationships such a very bad idea. Tell us about your "mutual decision" to begin having open marriage? What was your reasoning as best you can recall? Whose idea was it if the first place. How far did you carry this out as a couple? Are you also seeing another person?

Pepper

Pepperband,

Our open relationship started very innocently. As all couples do we told each others our fantasies, as we discussed them more and more they became more of an obsession than a fantasy. I can only speak for myself, not for my wife, as she says now she never wanted to do any of it.

Her fantasy was to have 2 men, I felt this meant I wasn't good enough, or providing enough. I wanted to make her happy, and some reasons that I'm working on now with my therapist I found the idea exciting. We found a friend she was attracted to, and I trusted, and we had a 3some.

This happened a couple of times, she always said she could not stand to see me with another woman, but she enjoyed being with other men if I was ok with it.

Several months ago my wife began pushing me to have sex with her friend, a friend whom she had previously been EXTREMELY jelous of. After a couple months of her making suggestions she arranged for us to be alone together, and told both of us that she wanted us to have sex. We did.

That same weekend we played strip poker and some drinking games, there were 5 of us total, she ended up with my best friend, I with his fiance. She says that's when she fell in love with him, and that it's my fault because I gave her away.

I do have to say that I've been no angel, I had an EA (didn't realize it until I read HN/HN) with a friend of hers, and had sex with her once without my wife knowing. I have come clean with my wife about her friend, all part of that radical honesty concept. I believe I just put the last nail in my coffin. I can't see her ever forgiving me for all the pain I have caused her.

Tonight she said she no longer wants to see a MC together, she's packing her things and says as soon as she can get a 2nd job she's leaving. I believe her; I don't see any way to fix this.

I am seeking help for my sexual issues, there are many, and I'm convinced I'm going to put my therapist's kids through graduate school.

I don't know what to do, I'm concentrating on my Plan A, but when I come home it's unbearable. And when she won't speak to me, I feel like my heart is being ripped out over and over again. I'm positive she's leaving, I've hurt her too bad. But how can I let her go? I just can't let go.....

TM94

I thought my wife was going to leave me too but she didn't and we have restored love in our marriage. It may seem hopeless now but it isn't.

There was a reason she married you in the first place. The Plan A is your best shot at resolving your marital crisis. You know she is in heavy fog, so try to take some comfort knowing that many of the things they say and do in this state aren't reality based.

If you really want her back, don't do things that will push her away from you. Give her reasons to want to return. It's so hard and it hurts so bad, but you will be a better man in the long run no matter how it turns out.

Peter,
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I have become more of what I consider to be an upbeat person over the past 3 weeks (we won't talk about the first week). But, many of my friends continue to ask me what's wrong, and tell me how bad I look. When I'm not at home I actually do feel ok, despite what they say I look like. But, the thought of going home to the coldness, hate and lack of emotion kills me.

She has become increasingly angry with me when I call, tell her I Love Her, try to show emotion to her, etc. Last night she told me she couldn't stand me to touch her, she didn't want to hear me say I Love You.

Over the past 2 weeks I've noticed the divide becoming greater, especially this last week. It seems that every time I express my emotions or try to show her I still Love her it pushes her farther away.

I told her last night, I'm backing off to give her the space she needs. I told her how much she meant to me, how much I Love Her, and how I wanted to continue to tell and show her so, but I would not because I saw the result (pain, anger, resentment, etc.)

I don't know if this is right or not, but I cannot keep driving her away from me. She is still sleeping in the same bed, which surprises me. Last night when I came to bed I was shivering from the cold, she asked if I wanted her to move closer so I would be warmer. I told her it was her choice, and she did. I just layed there with tears running down my face because it felt so good; and wondering what it would be like without her. When she rolled over I rolled with her and cuddled, at first she snuggled back against me and took my hand, then I felt her whole body go rigid and she moved her hand. I'm not sure how to take any of that..

"Our open relationship started very innocently." ... This is what MOST people in affairs say too. "It started innocentlly as a friendship."

I was in an open relationship in my wild ' crazy youth ... before I was married ... and it was a disaster! This was during the swing'n 70's. It is NOT good for women to have sex without emotional connection .... it makes them feel dirty and worthless after awhile. The connection she has with OM is emotional and gives your WW a sense of self worth and value as a woman. Chew on that tidbit of information ...and try to think of something you can do to polish her worth/value in your eyes ... something she will notice.

Good luck.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pepper,
I cannot imagine the pain she must be going through right now. I know the pain I have been living with for some time now, but I believe hers is compounded by the fact that she was sexually abused as a child.

I know our idea of fun and excitement was stupid, it has hurt us both more than I could ever imagine. I know she has emotional feelings for him, but she has shut me out so tight. She will not even talk to me, anything I try to do for her is met with resentment and hate. The past 2 days she has spent all day in bed, watching sad movies and crying all day.

The part that hurts the most is that she is crying over him, not me. I honestly don't know what I can do "to polish her worth/value in your eyes ... something she will notice." She has so much resentment for me right now....

I'm really at a loss here. I know I'm an A**, but I Love Her so much. Pepper, you say you were in her shoes once, HOW DO I HELP HER?!?!

I feel drained right now, emotionally, physically drained. The emptyness and hurt is becoming unbearable..... I just want her to talk to me

Buy beautiful greeting cards that are blank inside .... buy a bunch of them.

Either mail or drop off a beautiful card to her every few days ... write a personal message inside. Don't get verbose. Say something you miss about her. Say she is worth more than you can ever thell her.

This will be tricky. You cannot imagine how fragile the self esteem can be of someone who was sexually abused as a child. She do not value her sexuality as something that belongs to her ... and then ... your willingness to share her sexually with others reinforced that message.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pepper,
I tried the card/note thing and it backfired bad!! She became very angry and resentfull, told me she hated it and didn't want them. What do you make of this?

see my response to your other post THE WHOLE STORY ... I take back the card idea. You are not ready to be intimate. My opinion ... feel free to toss away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> My opinion ... feel free to toss away.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pepper, what does this mean?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TM94:
<strong> Last night when I came to bed I was shivering from the cold, she asked if I wanted her to move closer so I would be warmer. I told her it was her choice, and she did. When she rolled over I rolled with her and cuddled, at first she snuggled back against me and took my hand, then I felt her whole body go rigid and she moved her hand. I'm not sure how to take any of that..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can anyone make anything out of this? This is a confusing point for me. I'm not taking it as a sign she's ready to come back, but I'm not sure how to take it. Should I just ignore it and chalk it up to "Friendly Emotion"?

She's fighting with her inner feelings. She doesn't want to love you, but she does love you. Her initial reaction of snugglind was her instinctual reaction (truth) the withdrawl was her intellectual reaction (false).

Thanks,
She says she does things like hugging & cuddling out of habbit, not because she wants to. I'm starting to see a change in her the last couple of days. But, I'm afraid of what will come next. I don't think the OM will leave her alone, and I don't think she will open herself up to counseling while she's still living in the same house as me. After all, I was part of the problem, she sees me as her abuser.

Last night she told me that her only emotional need is safety. She doesn't feel safe with me, but she does with him. I think it's because HE'S OLDER THAN HER FATHER!! Just my opinion, I really don't understand it.