Well, here's my thought for the day -- How many of you would retain a friendship with a WS while they continue a PA with the OP?

The way things are going with my WW, I think I am starting to get what I wanted, and now I'm afraid it's going to get more complicated than ever.

We separated so soon after D-Day, so my Plan A never really got off the ground. Now that I've finally got my grasp on that, my WW is starting to come around. She sees that I'm not sad and depressed anymore. She sees that I am getting out with friends, doing fun things, and generally a happier, more upbeat person. She said this in an email she sent to me today.

Contact has now become more regular, and seems to be moving along those lines. Those following my situation know she called me last week and we talked for 2 hours. It was a good conversation. Not a lot of R talk, just friendly stuff. I wrote her an email, light, telling her it was great talking. She wrote back today with a light email in return, saying she hopes to call me later in the week (though I've heard that before) and saying:

"It was nice talking to you too. Glad you are having fun. You sound a lot better than you did before."

Not sure how to interpret that one. Is it, glad I am doing better for MY sake, or glad for HER sake because now she can feel less guilt?

I expect we'll talk on the phone once or twice a week now, and exchange email as well a couple of times. The next step may be getting together to have a meal or a cup of coffee or something.

However, even though my WW doesn't bring up the OM, I know she's still seeing him. I have no idea how the A is going, if it's blossoming, dying on the vine, or what, but I can tell that it's not over.

So here's the issue that scares me -- Is my WW just feeling better about herself and the A because I'm doing better? I mean, at first, I know she didn't want to be around me because I was a miserable mess. I didn't even want to be around me. It made her feel intense GUILT over what she did.

But now, since I am doing so much better and it shows, could it just be that she is feeling LESS GUILT over the A? Does she think I approve now? Is her goal now to retain me as a good friend while she continues to see OM?

I know that the common trend here is that a BS and a WS can't reconcile until they learn to be friends again. I know that's important. And I've made that step. The problem I have is, how long can I handle this while I know a PA is still going on? And how do I know or make it known to my WW that I still want to reconcile, NOT just become her lifelong buddy while I watch her date other men?

ALS

ALS, good to see you're on good (as can be expected) with your W. All part of the Plan A my friend.

. The problem I have is, how long can I handle this while I know a PA is still going on? And how do I know or make it known to my WW that I still want to reconcile, NOT just become her lifelong buddy while I watch her date other men?

The answer to this is entirely up to you. You Plan A it until you feel you can't. I do believe you should let her know your feelings though. All part of being radically honost ya know. I would say keep up what you're doing as long as you can and make sure your desire to save the M is know to her, but don't obsess on it with her. Sounds like you're doing great, just stay away from the LB's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

MTD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>But now, since I am doing so much better and it shows, could it just be that she is feeling LESS GUILT over the A? Does she think I approve now? Is her goal now to retain me as a good friend while she continues to see OM?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ALS - I hope you get some responses from former WS.

I'll bet she does feel less guilt - why wouldn't she? You transformed from a babbling idiot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> into a guy somewhat at peace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> with her alien side.

Does she think you approve? Approve of what? In the extreme, she hasn't done anything wrong, remember? Why wouldn't you approve of what makes her happy? Good friend? Of course she wants you as a good friend!! This further justifies that she hasn't done anything wrong!

Hopefully you know I'm interpreting the WS script.

But I think you're wasting time analyzing her. Re-read Rule #1. You're trying to treat irrationality rationally.

So what if she has less guilt? I argue this is good for you. It indicates your Plan A is working on YOU. Would you rather guilt her into coming back? It won't work. To the contrary, you've demonstrated likeability. She is not avoiding you like she would a babbling idiot. More importantly, this sets the stage for WHEN she starts to see OM for what he is - no competition to you. Over here, being cool and demonstrating likeability is - ALS!!!! Makes sense, right?

Bottom line: keep doing what you're doing and DON'T LOVE BUST!!!! Time is on your side. Don't not get bogged down in fretting over what she might be thinking - because she is not thinking rationally and your rational mind cannot twist like this.

WAT

Actually, Plan A is in part designed for when the A is ongoing. That's why Dr. Harley recommends the 6 month time frame for the A to end before moving to Plan B.

My Plan A was 18 months. We were separated 14 out of 21 months (separations continued after the A had ended). During my Plan A time we did lots of family activites went camping, hiking, to movies, out to dinner. Sometimes H & I would date. Between separations 5 & 6 we went as a family to Disney World. He told me before we went, he was leaving again when we returned. He did, but Disney is still a great memory.

I don't see that you are losing anything by being friendly. Inflicting guilt isn't on the lovebuster list, but it definitely isn't a love depositor.

Don't you see her contacting you more as a good result of Plan A? "Friend" isn't all you want to be, and if contact continues...you'll want to remind her of that, but you want her to see your good changes, right?

You probably don't want to go 18 months, like me, and God knows I didn't want to continue, even when I failed at Plan B...I served D papers then.

And...we reconciled 3 months later. My H tells me he never stopped loving me (although at the time he told me he had, plus couldn't live with me, couldn't be my H, etc) but my Plan A showed him how much I loved him. I never meant for that to be in doubt.

I think you are on task. You can decide how long you want to Plan A, depending on the results and/or how fast you feel your lovebank draining when you see her. If you don't feel a drain each time or feel the bottom of the lovebank appearing, then you're doing ok.

Man, you folks are great. You always manage to put everything into perspective for me.

In a way, I guess I should have already known the answer, but it's nice to hear some other points of view just to make sure I'm not crazy.

MTD: Right, and I will. I guess I just need to determine how long I can do a Plan A before I feel too much like a doormat or a sap. With her living on her own, paying all her own bills and stuff, I guess that's better than her still seeing OM and spending OUR money on him, etc. Still not sure if helping her out the door was right, but maybe it's what I needed to do before I could get a grasp on Plan A.

WAT: You've always got such an honest way of putting things. Thank you! I guess I was telling myself that she SHOULD feel guilty and that I didn't want to make that guilt go away, because that will prolong the A. However, you're right, guilt isn't going to bring her back, so how she feels in that regard doesn't really matter.

So, if I can keep all of our interactions positive, as I have been so much lately, she will at least see me as an attractive person to return to...Should she choose that. We still have a lot of issues regarding her job and OM to work though, and she knows that, not to mention that, regardless of how good my Plan A is, she may continue to read from the WS script and be too proud to admit the A was a mistake.

I will continue not to LB and put the best foot forward -- Do you recommend I reply to her emails regularly, even though she sometimes doesn't reply to mine or does so quite slowly?

And you're right, I was a babbling idiot -- Now at least I seem better to her. She said so herself.

Lor: You are right in that respect. Not seeing her at all isn't going to help things, so any contact where I can show something positive is good. I guess I also need to determine when the point where I feel more like a fool for allowing my W to be a "cake eater" is when I need to just either Plan B or end the marriage. I do believe I can be patient so long as things continue to at least be moving in a positive direction. My W bringing up Dv again would probably force a Plan B rather soon. I just hope I can start getting more than a once a week phone call, but hey, this is better than where I was a couple weeks ago as well, and that is reassuring.

Thanks again, everyone, for your opinions, I value them incredibly and you always make so much sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ALS