My wife wants me to fix things in the D papers that she did on line. There are some things that I wanted to be put into the papers that she did not include so I told her I was going to add them and change some things. She said that is fine she just wants a D. I thought about letting her send them as they are and fixing them in the answer. She didn't like that because then she would have to pay the Lawyer more. I have been telling her I want to do this friendly and everything, I do believe we could still have a chance after the D but that might be all talk. I just don't want things to get sour. She actually came home last night after her date with OM. I assume she has been staying with him for the last few days But I don't ask for details.
Its so hard, I still fell I love her and can put all this behind us, but she feels nothing for me. That would have to be abvious when she flat out tells me she has feelings for this guy. She said she didn't know if it was love, but when she gets upset when she thinks he is out with another woman, what else is it?
So wht do you think? should I fix the papers and sign when I am served, making things easy and clean? or should I wait and fix them after I am served?
Help, I am lost and confused.
\CD

cd,

I would just fix them now. This isn't a battle thats worth fighting. It would just be an unnecessary annoyance to NOT do it. There are more important things to make a stand on.

Citydweller-

IMO you shouldn't worry so much about appeasing her desire to get a quick D. It's obvious that you're not ready for it, so why not stall it? Is she still living at home with the A going on? If so, consider asking her to move out in conjuntion with a Plan B. Even if you've given your word that you would help her RACE this thing through, don't be afraid to change your mind if you're not ready. I went through with the D when I wasn't ready, and believe me, I regret it. I was so intent on NOT LB'ing that I ended up with a D before I knew what hit me. Good luck!

citydweller,

I am 100% with litchfield on this. This is her deal and you have no obligation to help her. You may LB in her eyes, but to "help" her with this compromises your belief that you can reconcile. JMVHO.

I have postponed the D for a while now. I don't want to be enemies after it is through. All I see is that am just making her hate me more and more. I think that is just a peach, I am worried about her hating me when she is out having an A. I feel by fighting any longer will only hamper any chance of reconciliation.
CD

I feel by fighting any longer will only hamper any chance of reconciliation.
So agreeing to a quick divorce will HELP reconciliation?!?

Don't fix anything. She will send the papers to the lawyer and he will rewrite everything anyway!

Once the papers are ready, you will either,
a - be served. You don't have to sign anything.
b - your wife will ask you to sign a waiver of service, meaning she gave you the papers and you acknowledge receiving them.

Don't bring it up until it happens, but don't agree to signing the waiver either.

The more you agree/go along with the divorce, the less commitment you are showing to her of wanting to be married.

If she wants a divorce she can get one with or without you (in most states.)

She said she didn't know if it was love, but when she gets upset when she thinks he is out with another woman,
This is great! She is getting jealous of him because she does not trust him. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS!

Now is the time for you to shine as someone she can trust! Be there when she wants to talk and have a shoulder to cry on. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A!!!

You are to be the one who stood by her even when she was doing all of this to you. She is willing to give up everything she has for someone (om) who does not need to be with her! Let him Lovebust and screw up their relationship! Now is the time for you to do a little Snoopy dance!

<small>[ January 08, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</small>

CD,
There are some inconsistencies here that you should note. She lives with you, but is having an affair. She goes out with the OM and then tells you about her problems with him. She told you last week that she did not file the papers because she spent the $$ on a new jacket. She does not file the papers this week because she wants you to fix them first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You talk about the possibility of reconciling AFTER the divorce? You are clearly not ready for this divorce and she is clearly not ready to make it happen of her own accord. Although she tells you that is what she wants, she is not making it happen. You do not have to help move it along and I would advise you to put it back in her corner.

You may not be able to stop the divorce, but with children to consider and an OM that will be in their lives, I would move very carefully.

She has not moved out, she has not filed the papers. Be a good father and see what happens. Put this back in HER court!

CD-

I don't think you're going to help your chances of reconciliation by getting a D. IMO, you should consider ALL other options before going ahead and signing off on the D. I don't know your whole situation but what about some boundaries or going to "no contact" (or as little as possible because of the kids)? You could let her know that you love her and want the M to work but that she can't stay at the house while she continues to see the OM. Is this a option? Have you tried the Plan A & B strategies?

We are both very confused. I am not pushing the papers through, I have stalled for a couple of weeks now, thats why she thinks I am playing with her. Thats why she hasn't done anything, she was waiting for me to change the papers. I want to fix them before her lawyer gets ahold of her and tells her what she should be asking for. She isn't asking for alimony, which she could get and she knows it. I woulod be really bent if I had to pay her for cheating on me!
We had a nice time today. She invited me to the mall with her and she had lunch with me. We talked about things (again), but she still needs a D to start over. She has that set in her mind and anything I say against it only makes it harder. Just plan Aing hurts her, because I am beiong nice and she has done wrong.
When we got home she said thanks for being her friend and gave me a big hug. I haven't had that for a while, fekt nice.
So Now I will sit back and wait to be served.
Cd

CD,
You did well today. So, plan A makes her feel bad? She is feeling guilty, if she hated you she would not care...Yes, just sit back and wait to be served. It might be a long wait, we'll be here!

I know she is feeling guilty and she knows it. Thats why she says she needs a D. Her reasoning is just so screwed up, I just can't tell her that because she won't see it. I almost feel like something in her is wanting to stay together, but every word and action is D.
Do you think no contact would work or would she see it as being mean and a big LBer?
She won't move out completely because of the kids, and by me not moving out she spends nights with OM. I loose anyway you look at it!
CD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you think no contact would work or would she see it as being mean and a big LBer? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If your plan A has been great, perhaps it would lessen any percieved LB on her part. IMVHO, the odds are better w/ plan B than w/ plan D.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I loose anyway you look at it! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, IMVHO, I would rather lose going the plan B route than going the quick D route.

It's a tough call. Hang in there!!

She won't move out completely because of the kids, and by me not moving out she spends nights with OM. I loose anyway you look at it!

You loose any way???

What do you want out of life? What are your goals?
I am not trying to make you hurt more, but isn't one of your goals to overcome adversity? Don't we win if we do that?

I am not saying that this is supposed to be good for you, I know it's hell.
I am saying that you ( and God) can make it turn out good in the end, if you do your part. All your friends here are trying to help ( even me.)

You have many here that have been RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE NOW. They are coaching you how to get through with the least possible damage. There is no way to get through without pain.

We have a saying at our house when we (often) don't know what to do, and it goes like this. "What would Jesus do?"
I believe you are getting wise council here along those lines.
One of the greatest hardships for you right now is that no matter how hard you try, you can't change her mind, and you can't do anything about her bad choices. It feels like you are going crazy, and that you will never come out of it.

Remember again, many here have been where you are and they are doing well. That's one of the things you need to keep telling yourself. "Someday I'll do better, Just hang on, things will get better."

So, what are your goals?
You want a good marriage? We know you do. We know what your answer is. Right now you can't directly do anything about that part of your life. You can just keep improving you. You can plan A. You can work out your anger, you can overcome adversity. You can do what you came here to do.
" And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever we shall command them to do." ................"Those who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their head for ever and ever."
That's from memory, forgive me if I misquoted it.

Do what you can do, do all you can do, do all that you have to do so that you meet your goal. You are going to get down over and over again. Keep coming back and we'll tell you again. You have it in you to become like your father is. I hope you really believe that.
Take care of those girls, take care of your health - physical and emotional, as best you can. Cry when you feel like crying, take a sledgehammer and beat an old slab of concrete when you are angry. Forgive when you are ready to forgive. You are in the middle of becoming the person you want someday to be, don't give up on yourself.

Can you honestly say you know what will come out of all this?
Do you know?
Do you trust God to make it turn out good for you, no matter what? Does he keep his promises?

None of us knows what will happen with your marriage. Many have divorced and gone separate ways, many have divorced and then remarried and done well. We just don't know, but you know what your final goal is, please don't loose sight of that.

SS

<small>[ January 09, 2003, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Thank you for the support I really needed it today. My W knows how to really throw me for a loop. Today she bought me late xmas gifts, nice gifts. Then she called and wanted to talk. She is so insecure about her self, she asked if I thought she was pretty. When she got home she talked and I listened. What I found interesting is that she felt like a little kid begging for money on the street only she was begging for love. She told me that when she was in kindergarden her father had a girlfriend and he would take her to girlfriends house, she said she hated him for that and here she was doing hte same thing. She also felt that if we would have been divorced 3 weeks ago we probable would be dating by now. Smoke?? Maybe.. I'll never know.

SS, you are right. I can not change her or make her feel something else. I have to work on me and take care of the girls.
Want to know how good of a relationship she has with OM? I went out tonight, told her I had a friend in town. I just went out, was going to the movies by myself. She called and asked if I wanted to see OM. I questioned why? But said yea, I'd like to see who he is. I went to a pub and grill but he had already gone. So she called her cousin to go out. W wanted to go where OM was and have Cousin flirt with him to see what he would do. I asked if she trusted him and she said NO! Talk about messed up in the head! I feel kinda bad for her, she really is lost and satan, father of all lies, has her right where he wants her.
Today as we were talking, I told her I felt if I signed the papers I was giving up and saying I don't love her. She got a little bent and just said,Your not giving up WE ARE DIVORCING.

I felt like I needed to plan B, but after talking to a friend they made me realize that if she didn't care enough to email me when I was deployed for 2 months what good would plan B do. Just give him a chance to meet those needs. Atleast right now she is talking to me and I can meet that need. Where before she wasn't talking to anyone. And I am giving my Ds alittle stability. So maybe I will continue plan A.

I am draining fast! Thanks for your guidance, I really need it. I might be as lost as she is.
CD

CD,
Hang in there, go back and read the replies you have on your threads. So many people care and are trying to help you through this.

She is most certainly indecisive about your relationship. She is needy, insecure and looking for attention. She does not trust the OM and probably has no future with him. She is asking you for validation of her self worth, she is TALKING to you. You are doing the right thing now by taking care of the girls and staying in YOUR home as the father. You are the stability.

Your marriage may or may not be saved, but you can control how you handle yourself. Don't give in to her irrational wants. She says you might be dating if you had divorced 3 weeks ago? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> This is not a junior high boyfriend girfriend fight, this is real life. There are children involved. Divorce is not the way to rearrange a relationship, it is intended to be a final legal solution to the END of your marriage. Do not be drawn into this immature game.

Please keep us posted, we care about you! Ladysing

I don't know how to do this.
You say she is indicisive, but she is still going to talk to the lawyer today and I will be waiting to be served.
Last night she left to see what OM was doing. When she came home she was hurt as she fell on the ice in the perking lot. She really hit hard. This morning she could hardly move so she asked me to open the business. I feel so used! I couldn't say no because she was in alot of pain. But to think of the things I do for her, then think of her shamless, thoughtless actions just hurts.
Yesterday I was thinking that if I could stay in the house and maybe rent the basement, in the attempt to be a stability for the girls and still Plan A her, She would see the light. I don't know If I could do it. Even last night she asked me to leave the room so she could talk on the phone. I can't tell her how it hurts cause that just justifies her wanting the D. So she doesn't hurt me anymore. I guess that shouldn't matter since she wants one anyway. I guess what it comes down to is her dissision to see OM. She "cares" about me but not enough to make that commitment. If I stay and complain about her going out she will get an apartment. But I don't want to be stuck with this house. It is to big and to much for my needs. I know, SELL IT! But It won't sell that fast with the market as it is.
Can you tell how disstressed I AM? I am so inconsistant with my thoughts and actions. I guess I need to just make a dissision and stick by it, right or wrong. Is there a right and a wrong choice? I am told to stay in the home, but then I will be stuck with something I don't want if she leaves. If she stays I have to see her going out with OM.
I just don't know what to even think. I can't even organize my thoughts enough to put them right this post. I wonder if I would really want it to work if she wanted to try. Thats how messed up I am right now.
CD

Hi CD,
I think I'll take this line by line today - and lets talk about it a little bit.

My W knows how to really throw me for a loop. Today she bought me late xmas gifts, nice gifts. Then she called and wanted to talk. She is so insecure about her self, she asked if I thought she was pretty. When she got home she talked and I listened. What I found interesting is that she felt like a little kid begging for money on the street only she was begging for love.
There is no one in the world that can hurt us as much as our spouse. No one. We love, them, trust them, grow closer to them. There is probably no greater pain than what you are going through, and now you get mixed signals. We'll discuss this more as we go along.
As we have been telling you, she is confused, and she doubts, and she has all the same conflicting emotions in her mind that you do, except her mind is also coping with addiction.

She told me that when she was in kindergarten her father had a girlfriend and he would take her to girlfriends house, she said she hated him for that and here she was doing the same thing.
She has some moments where she is thinking about things, and she knows things are not right with what she does. But she mixes it with the fog -

She also felt that if we would have been divorced 3 weeks ago we probable would be dating by now. Smoke?? Maybe..
Smoke, or fog, or whatever you want to call it.

See, she is saying that if you would just D her, you would be dating now and everything would be OK, and she infers that you may be on your way to recovery. But look at her actions. She is still going to see OM every night ( or almost every night? ) That doesn't match with what she is saying. Always compare actions with words to understand what is really happening.

SS, you are right. I can not change her or make her feel something else. I have to work on me and take care of the girls.
There are four things you should consider right now when you make decisions.
1. How will it affect me, my emotional health, and my physical health?
2. How will it affect my daughters.
3. How will it affect one particular interview I will have in the future. ( more later on this )
4. What would Jesus do?

Want to know how good of a relationship she has with OM? I went out tonight, told her I had a friend in town. I just went out, was going to the movies by myself. She called and asked if I wanted to see OM. I questioned why? But said yea, I'd like to see who he is.
#1. How will it affect my emotional health?
Probably only you could answer that, but you need to apply these three questions to everything you do.

I asked if she trusted him and she said NO! Talk about messed up in the head! I feel kinda bad for her, she really is lost and satan, father of all lies, has her right where he wants her.
Yes, I agree with you on this one. Remember it is addiction. She has some moments where she is rational, but many, many where she is not. Treat her like she is an addict. She needs help, she is not rational. It will help you know how to talk to her, it will help you get over what she does.
Today as we were talking, I told her I felt if I signed the papers I was giving up and saying I don't love her. She got a little bent and just said, Your not giving up WE ARE DIVORCING.
NO, SHE IS DIVORCING. It is true that you will also be divorced, but there is a real difference. It will make a great deal of difference someday. There is an interview you will have, not like one you have ever had before. See 2nd Nephi 9:41. I'll let you look it up, especially the last half. When you go to that interview you want to be able to say "I did everything I could possibly do to keep my marriage together." and you want the answer to be " yes, you did." This will also affect your peace of mind all your life. Let her do it. The other thing to remember is THAT SHE MAY NEVER FINISH IT. She could come out of the fog, we never know that. If she doesn't you will be out some money. The money won't be a big factor in that interview you will have. By the time you get to that point, I don't think you will even remember it.

I felt like I needed to plan B, but after talking to a friend they made me realize that if she didn't care enough to email me when I was deployed for 2 months what good would plan B do. Just give him a chance to meet those needs. At least right now she is talking to me and I can meet that need. Where before she wasn't talking to anyone. And I am giving my Ds a little stability. So maybe I will continue plan A. I am draining fast!
See #'s 1, 2, 3, and 4. This paragraph affects them all. You have to find balance. You can't take care of your daughters if you are drained, you get sick, or can't function. Some here have reported that they were in bed, or even hospitalized for a week after D day. You are better off than that. You are stronger that you think, but you still have to watch your health, and protect yourself. For the sake of the marriage, plan A is best, but you need to do B if you can't take it any more.

(BTW, I am running two of your posts together)

You say she is indecisive, but she is still going to talk to the lawyer today and I will be waiting to be served.
How many times has she said this over the last 3 months. Even while you were deployed if I remember right??? She may do it, but she may not. Do we know? And if she does go through with it, see # 3.

Last night she left to see what OM was doing. When she came home she was hurt as she fell on the ice in the perking lot. She really hit hard. This morning she could hardly move so she asked me to open the business. I feel so used! I couldn't say no because she was in allot of pain. But to think of the things I do for her, then think of her shameless, thoughtless actions just hurts.
See # 4.

Yesterday I was thinking that if I could stay in the house and maybe rent the basement, in the attempt to be a stability for the girls and still Plan A her, She would see the light.
She may see the light, she may not. If you can afford the house, then stay, you can sell later, or you will have time to think. Any reason you need to do something right now? It would help the girls to be in the same home with their dad for a while. It would help a great deal.

I don't know If I could do it. Even last night she asked me to leave the room so she could talk on the phone. I can't tell her how it hurts cause that just justifies her wanting the D. So she doesn't hurt me anymore. I guess that shouldn't matter since she wants one anyway. I guess what it comes down to is her decision to see OM. She "cares" about me but not enough to make that commitment. If I stay and complain about her going out she will get an apartment.
See # 1. You need to take stock of where you are every week, and if it gets too bad, then you have to change how you do things. I wish you had gotten counseling with the Harleys, I believe you are one that could really be helped by it. Your reasoning is correct, you can't really talk about what she is doing, but you will go slowly crazy if she keeps doing it in front of you. Prayer will help you find a balance, and protect yourself.

But I don't want to be stuck with this house. It is to big and to much for my needs. I know, SELL IT! But It won't sell that fast with the market as it is.
Like I said, what difference will a few months make? Any reason you can't wait until - say April? or May? Look at #2.

Can you tell how distressed I AM? I am so inconsistent with my thoughts and actions. I guess I need to just make a decision and stick by it, right or wrong. Is there a right and a wrong choice? I am told to stay in the home, but then I will be stuck with something I don't want if she leaves. If she stays I have to see her going out with OM. I just don't know what to even think. I can't even organize my thoughts enough to put them right this post. I wonder if I would really want it to work if she wanted to try. That's how messed up I am right now.
Remember what I said in the very beginning. Our spouse has more power over our emotions, more power to inflict pain on us than anyone else in the world. Your emotions are where they have to be if you are in love and get betrayed. How could you feel any different?
You can go on and get better from where you are. Did you go through boot camp? Could you do more push-ups at the end than at the beginning? ( Course, I don't know about the air force, they could be soft, and not do push-ups.)

You can go on from here. Lets go back to the addiction thing. She is in an addiction. An addict will have moments when they are rational. In these moments, they want to quit, they want to do what is right. They speak softly, in terms of being the person they want to be.
She told me that when she was in kindergarten her father had a girlfriend and he would take her to girlfriends house, she said she hated him for that and here she was doing the same thing.
Make sense?

She is an addict.
When in the grip of the addiction, they lie, they cheat, they get angry, they threaten, and THEY ARE NOT RATIONAL.
I believe you can think of examples of this without me quoting them again.
If you can treat what she is doing as an addiction, it may help you to get through it, and it may make it possible for you to extend help to her even though she is hurting you.

There is one more thing that can help you. You need to learn how to speak Fog speak.
When she tells you something or make demands ( and you know she is speaking fog speak herself) speak it back to her.

CD, I want a divorce, right now!!!
Gee, I don't know honey, I'll have to think about that one.

2 weeks later
Have you thought about it?
Well, I don't know, I mean, that's a hard one, I'm not sure.
Orchid is the master at this one, perhaps she can coach you ( hey Orchid, whats one more,?)

I have probably gone on long enough for now. Is this making sense to you?

SS

<small>[ January 10, 2003, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Thanks SS. Today was way out of control. She had a 2 o'clock appointment with the Lawyer and asked me one last time why I wouldn't sign. When I told her again I couldn't things got nasty. She told me that if she was going to pay for one she was going for it all. She did not want to speak to me, talk to me...basically Plan B me. As she yelled at the top of her lungs to leave her and to get out of her sight, I managed to keep calm. I did make one mistake and told her that it was her that had the affair so she should get her self out and take care of the D. Big LBer with bringing upo the A, she went on to say thats why we can't try. She doesn't want to be reminded for the rest of her life. As the door closed behind me I heard a glass break. I returned calmly and asked if she was ok. She yelled some more and went to the bedroom. I cleaned up the glass and went in for some more. I was able to calm her down and ask why we couldn't be nice about it. all I got was fog talk. I asked her to give me an hour to think about things and left. I went to talk to her sister, and called the stake Pres. for some guidance. I have had feelings of signing and fight from a new angle and as I was finishing up with the Pres, feeling like I hadn't recieved any help, it came again. He told me to follow my heart, that it could decieve you but listen and follow it. I knew then that I needed to sign and move on. Not away from her, because she still needed me, but on with myself. I returned and told her I would sign, that I valued her friendship more than anything. I'm not sure of the end result, but it was going to be ok.
Now I say OK, but that doen't mean easy for me. I needed to add some things into the papers and print them, but The same form I printed just 2 days ago would not print.
She went to the gym tonight and when she got home we had family prayer and put the girls to bed. She was going out so before she got ready she laid beside me put my arms around her and talked. She was telling me that she felt like her feelings and emotions were fighting inside.
But all her talk is about getting the D.
I hope I heard right and things work out. I can't take any more anyway. I think I want a D now in a small way. I am just numb right now, not really feeling anything.
CD

Citydweller,
Your posts remind me of some of the conversationas that my W and I had when we were going through all the "mess". Whenever we were getting along well she would say "after we are divorced I think we could get along and remain friends. I told her that I was not looking forward to a divorce but could'nt stop her if she really wanted it", I also told her if we divorced I would have to see it as the end of our marriage and a signal to get on with my life without her., no playing friends,it's too hard to be friends when one person wants more. I think after a while she saw that she would loose ME in a divorce.
One other thing I found it easier to listen to her troubles and let out any upset later than try to make her see her "dumb" thinking.

One last thing have you lost any weight since all this started. I lost 51 lbs, in approx 3 months.

Daniel

Daniel,
Are you back together or did she end up with out you?
I can't handle this, I am having dreams about them, not sleeping real well. Yes I lost about 20 in a month last year. When I deploy I put wieght back on because I am able to keep a better shced and work out alot. I gained 10 pounds this last trip, but have lost most of that again.
She didn't come home last night, makes me sick!
Why can't I just hate her and move on?
CD