I am beginning to get frustrated with my wife and I am afraid that I am going to end up LB'ing big time soon.

In a nutshell, we have been separated for about 3 months as she continues her PA (roughly 6 months long). I have asked for MC and she refuses, she said she needs counseling alone first before deciding on whether or not MC is for her.

She claims (and I believe) that her decision is between being married and being single, not between myself and the other person. She admits that she doesn't see him as her future, basically he is a time filler for her at this point- although she does have some feeling (passion) for him. I don't know how long the A will last, he doesn't seem to be the type that will LB as she basically is in control of that relationship. Maybe that is more of a concern for me than I think, I just don't believe it is something that will last forever.

We both have agreed that the missing portion of our marriage is "the spark", and it has been that way for a year or two. Everything else is good (best of friends, no abuse, plenty of money, family, friends, etc.). To all of our friends and family we were the model couple. I feel that the "spark" is something that comes and goes from most marriages and that counseling together could save us (married 8+ been together 12+). She says she isn't sure that it can, that is what she is trying to figure out on her own with her counselor. I am beginning to suspect her counselor is leading her down a path to divorce quite honestly.

I am getting frustrated with waiting and not receiving anything more than "maybe" regarding counseling. We do not talk or see each other (2+ months), all communication is by e-mail only- cordial at best and strictly financial matters or dog related (no kids).

I love her so much it hurts, I know this would work if we were able to get into counseling. I have told her about this site, hoping she reads some of the material and realizes that we can put things back together again. I would really like to take her on a Marriage Builders Weekend to work on things together.

My fear is that she is simply dragging things out and knows in her heart that she just doesn't want to be married- not just to me but not married period. She is 33 and may be going through an early MLC, I don't know as I can't get anything of substance from her. She just isn't letting me inside and I am so afraid of pressuring her and having her completely back away.

We have agreed that our next contact (her to me) will come at the end of January. I fear that she will continue with indecisiveness, I will get something along the lines of "I can't make up my mind and I can't make promises or hold you back so do what you have to do". We don't discuss divorce, she has told me that isn't what she wants- at this time.

If I get what I think I will get at the end of January, do I ask "firmly" about going to MC? This all seems too simple for me, either she wants to work on the marriage which will require MC or she simply decides that marriage isn't for her and I can move on with my life. I don't want to without her, but I just don't understand where she is coming from and why she can't make a decision. I don't understand why she wouldn't want to exhaust every possibility in making our marriage work before basically giving up.

I have done a very good job of backing off for the last month or so and trying to be a loving and understanding husband- zero LB's although it is a lot easier to avoid them when all contact is by e-mail. But I am at the end of my rope and I don't know what my next step is.

Basically, I see 3 options.

1- strongly ask for MC
2- continue to Plan A and hope and pray for the best. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense since she won't see or speak with me. Plan A seems kind of strange strictly through e-mail.
3- throw out a plan B and just be done with it and see what happens from there. Again, since all contact is by e-mail and is basically initiated by me I am not sure as to how effective this will be either.

Any advice? It seems we are so close as we know what the problem is, but so far apart as she doesn't seem to want to work on it together. Maybe I just need to accept the fact that she is saying she doesn't want a divorce, but her actions are telling me that she does and wants me to pull the trigger so she can avoid the guilt......

Help!!! I don't want to do the wrong thing, I don't want to give up too soon. But I want my wife to throw me a bone- anything at this point to make me want to hold on......

<small>[ January 08, 2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: sadinaz ]</small>

sadinaz-

You'll have to take my advice with a grain a salt (because I'm now D'd!) but I'd recommend that you NOT have these ultimatums when you speak with her next. You obviously want to work on this R and from the timeline provided you should realize that you're very early in the process IMO. And believe it or not, time is your friend in this whole process. Take comfort from the following:(1) You're still married (2) The two of you haven't brought up the subject of D (3) There's a good chance this thing will work out because of the lack of LB's.

One of the biggest regrets I have about how I communicated with my XWW after she moved out is that I never got the hang of not pressuring her with suggestions/opinions on how things should proceed between us. It got to the point where it was very stressful for her to talk with me and that's not good. It's a difficult concept to implement but if you can get away from being needy and become more independent and self sufficient, the reponses from her will be positive. Good luck!

sadinaz,

Take put the some of the details and we are in a nearly identical situation!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> she said she needs counseling alone first before deciding on whether or not MC is for her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a HUGE PLUS!!! Work with that. Will she let you set this up? Would she entertain the idea of both of you seeing the same counselor but on an individual basis. That might involve some bamboozeling(sp?), so watch it there; Just some brainstorming going on here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We don't discuss divorce, she has told me that isn't what she wants- at this time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is fence sitting just like my WW. My WW also claims this is not about OM. Blah, blah, right from the WS script(credit to WAT and others for pointing this out). Be careful here. You don't want to push her to wrong side of the fence.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but her actions are telling me that she does and wants me to pull the trigger so she can avoid the guilt...... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't do it!!

Plan A is about you working on you. Continue this and communicate as much as you can. Have you read the website or any of the Harley books?

<small>[ January 08, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Luki ]</small>

Demanding anything in a marriage is not only a lovebuster, it's also a highly ineffective way of getting your spouse to do something. I would suggest that YOU start marriage counseling, and I always recommend that you consider the Harley's phone counseling (888-639-1639 for appts) for several reasons:

1. Steve and Jenn are terrific, very effective counselors, and the focus will always be on you and what you can do to bring romantic love back into the marriage.

2. Phone counseling is very convenient. Especially for the next item

3. Steve or Jenn would want to discuss progress with your wife. It's a great way that they use to get the other person involved in the counseling. It's very easy to do by phone.

You've asked. She said no. Leave it at that and keep up with your Plan A.

If it helps, I got this from a friend and MB alumnus who has been in recovery with his wife for three years now. He sez his marriage is better than ever.

Just remember that:

A) You don't have to make any decisions today -- nothing has to be decided immediately; give it time, wait it out and see what happens.

B) You can only control your own actions, nobody else's. Somebody doesn't do something because you willed them to do it.

C) The car dealer that appears confident and offers a good product is the one that makes the sale; not the dealer that is emotional and begs for the sale.

D) Go above the call of duty. Put more in than you take out. Especially when it's difficult.

E) Listen to your gut, not your head. Do the right thing. Always. It may be difficult, but you'll never hate yourself for it.

F) If somebody wants space, give it to them.

G) Find ways to love yourself. Esteem is hard in this situation.

H) Don't bring up the past out of anger or to hurt; do it to clear things up and avoid bringing it up when there's no need.

I) Don't worry about being right. Do what works.

Yes, we are both in individual counseling currently. I have been since day one and she tells me she is going as well. I suspect she is, but I don't know how much she is getting out of her sessions. Counseling requires honesty and I am not sure as to how willing she is to disclose everything that is going on to her counselor or anyone for that matter. But I cannot worry about her, I can only control me and I know that.

Counseling has done wonders for me, but in all honesty I didn't have a ton of issues to work on. I am fairly impatient and pessimistic by nature, both of those factors have worked against me in this situation. I also have a controlling personality which is my biggest "fault" that I need to work on, I need to avoid impressing upon my wife judgments and views that I have that she may not share. That is the biggest LB that I need to consistently work on for me.

Yes, I have read SAA and am going to start HNHN this weekend. I have scheduled a session with Steve for Monday morning prior to my regular counseling session. I am curious as to what if any help he may be.

All I can do is hope and pray for the best, I am so wanting to either see or speak with my wife that it drives me crazy. At the same time, I fear that I will LB her to death so it will take everything within me to be strong if/when the day comes that she does want to talk vs. e-mail.

I am hoping that day is soon, I realize that 3 months is minor compared to what many people endure. I truly want her happiness, but I will always lack closure if we never make it to MC together. That is what my goal is with her, MC to work things through and give me closure- one way or the other.

ditto the others

Demanding anything is an LB.

I detect that you've fallen into the very, very common BS trap of 1) trying to ANALyze everything she says and 2) believing what she says.

For example:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't understand why she wouldn't want to exhaust every possibility in making our marriage work before basically giving up.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you don't understand this!!! No rational person would - but a confused, irrational person can think up a zillion reasons.

Don't try to use logic here.

I'll bet she's not going to counseling at all. Further, I don't believe the "just don't want to be married" crap. Sorry, but I bet she's into it BIG time with Mr. Dreamboat. I don't believe a word of what you say she says - except that she doesn't know what she wants. This is a given even if she doesn't say it.

You seem to have no choice but to Plan A for your improvements and demonstrate your improvements when you get a chance AND don't LB when interactions take place. Better yet, present a TERRIFIC sadinaz!!

What do you know about OM? Married?

What does your wife's family know?

sadinaz-
You're getting some excellent advice, such as:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I'd recommend that you NOT have these ultimatums when you speak with her...and...you should realize that you're very early in the process...And...believe it or not, time is your friend in this whole process. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone told me very early on in this process: "Quote:" What you have to do is VERY counter-intuitive. Plan A is counter-intuitive. It "feels" wrong. It feels like doing nothing. It feels like being a door-mat. It isn't! Litchfield's response proves that (sorry, Litch).

The best thing you can do now is concentrate on YOU. Work on your faults, such as they are. Work out a Plan A. If your only contact is e-mail, keep it infrequent, BUT keep it in the context of Plan A. NO Demands. NO begging, pleading, asking for logic. Just loving, kind words, small gestures of your love to her. NOTHING too drastic, to push her away. Remember - NO PRESSURE!

You are more fortunate than many....your WW will still TALK to you, and TELL you when you are annoying her! My WH would ONLY tell me he - quote "Couldn't explain it to me. He just didn't want to be M anymore!"[/i] Period. End of discussion. End of M. Don't push her away by pressuring for logic (as WAT correctly pointed out).

Hang in there. You'll be fine. You've got some of the most experienced in this roller-coaster ride hanging on to you to offer support. I'll reiterate what others have told you: You may not realize it, but you're in MUCH better shape than many here. But you've got be be patient, and let this thing play out. Talking to Steve will help.

Good luck, and God Bless,