Can Plan B and the radical 180 approaches be run together?
Since mid November I have been in a strict Plan B. The only communication with my WS was replying to her emails. These were effectively simple answers to questions but in Plan B letter format.
Telling WS that it is too painful to talk to her or see her while OM is still in her life is not really showing the self-confidence to move on with my life w or w/o her. At the time this was the truth it would have been too painful for me.
My time has been spent working on me. We all have faults, weaknesses etc and I have been trying to address mine.
How do the more experienced MB'ers suggest that I show WS that I do now feel more confident? Currently I contact my 2S on their cellphones and then phone back on the landline so that I don't have to speak to WS.
What are your views on phoning the landline and saying a polite, confident Hello to Ws and asking to speak to 2S. If I continue to avoid contact she might feel this is because I am still grieving for her. She might try to make conversation if we speak. What would you recommend me saying?
Your views are eagerly awaited as 180's are probably very compatible with Plan A, but what about Plan B?
NS

Hi NS,

Good to hear from you. Well I think the 180 goes better with plan B. Why? Because it throws the WS off guard and the BS gains strength.

You have children, so a strict plan B is next to impossible. I made it clear for my plan B that the only allowed communication from me would be related to child visitation, money and mail. I asked he respect that and do the same. Well he became more needy as a result of my short time plan B.

As for speaking to her when you call to speak to your children, keep it short and sweet. If she engages in conversation, let her know that she can put it in writing and when you are'strong' enough you will reply.

That way, she can communicate and you have the option to read it or not.

JMHO,
L.

Newsunrise,

180 degree doesn't go with plan B ... actually 180 degree is one implementation of plan A. In 180 you need contact to show your actions ... In plan B all contact should be avoided. The only contact is only about you 2S. Any other conversation should be reply with "I could not talk to you until you are ending your A per my last letter to you. Please understand this" Click ....

IMHO, if you are confident about your changes and wnat to show her ... pull out from plan B !!!. You should try 180 degree first ... check link under my signature on Venusian Lady' story. Unfortunately, it usually work for men not women.

-rh-

sunrise,

I think 180's can be implemented in plan A or B. If I', correct, a 180 is doing the total opposite of what's expected. I did alot of them when I learned of the A and afterwards. They didn't do any good. Now that we are nearing the end (D will happen soon), I'm contemplating another. After 18 months of telling my W I don't want a D and living in limbo as she dragged the process out, I'm ready to change my tune, get proactive in the D and move on with my life. I'm not doing this to make my W think or anything like that, it's simply time I take control of my life and move forward. If it makes my W stop and think, great, but if not it's a step I must take for me.

sad dad

Orchid, Redhat and sad dad
Thank you for your advice it is always very welcome.

In future I will phone the landline to contact my 2S and do as you say. Reading the posts on this site gives me the impression that my Plan B has been very strict as many posts refer to conversations withy WS while in Plan B. Up until now contact with WS would have stopped me healing. My inner strength is now returning and I am feeling more hopeful. This journey is a rollercoaster ride so I am prepared for more dips and troughs in the future.

RH, the point made about returning to Plan A with confidence and 180 principles makes sense. SD from your profile it appears that you went back to Plan A. It will need to be when I am ready. Plan B came naturally due to the circumstances at the time. Reading MB articles I note that to cave in when doing Plan B can be disastrous and a return home may be seen as that. Does anyone have any advice on what to do in these circumstances? It is in my opinion too soon to consider this option but it will get my full attention when the time is right.

It was the Venusian lady story (CarolKH?) that got me thinking about this in the first place. Her circumstances were very different to mine but the 180 principles do appeal to me. Orchid, I read your posts on reverse fog talk last Summer and was impressed and very amused. You appear to have used 180 psychology to great effect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

A 180 approach will keep WS guessing and give me something to occupy myself with over the coming months while waiting for her to make up her mind. The thing that disconcerted me after I left to do Plan B is that her friends tell me she is seeing less of OM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Of course this may be a smoke screen but there is certainly no evidence of OM spending more time with WS (although I am not wasting my time watching them). The message I am getting from people who have spoken to her is that she cannot make up her mind. The one certain fact is that OM is still a part of her life, so whatever I do, I must be careful.

NS

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Newsunrise ]</small>

Newsunrise,

Yes, CarolKH is a Venusian Lady. I actually never get a chance to plan B ... my WW put NC on me all the way to Dv. How to come back from plan B ?. Well, you never start with a big bang ... move in and so on. The key in here is you have to make it safe for her to let you in. She is still in the driver seat, remember that. You could do plan A w/o contact .... You show your changes to your 2S and to all the people that are close to your WW. The key in plan A is letting WW know about your changes .... Be creative, be patient and ... don't push anything until she lead you in.

-rh-

When you started Plan B, did you send a Plan B letter explaining what and why you were doing it?

Chris
My Plan B started 15 Nov 02. I returned home early to collect some things and found OM there with WS. I told WS that I could not go on living with her while she loved someone else and that I would end up hating her if I tried. I told OM that I loved WS. I told OM that I had no argument with him - I married WS not him.
I left a Plan B letter for WS and a letter for my 2S trying to explain my actions. WS seems to have difficulty understanding why I won't talk to her and my 2S (15,16) can't understand how I feel as they have never had an R.
NS

a bunch of questions:
did you try a plan A? did you do some introspection with regard to the why of the affair? do you think you have contributed, and where and why? did you acknowledge that to your wife? to you see your sons, visitation rights etc? how long has the affair been going? how long have you been married? did you contemplate moving back, claiming your territory as your rightfully married to her? (if she doesnt like it - she should go, as she will be the one leaving the marriage, right?)

Nick
Yes I tried Plan A for 5 months. It was not perfect with a few LBs. WS has told me many of the things that made her unhappy and prone to the A. She is right about the bulk of them. Some of the things that upset me were personality traits that I had when I married her now mean that she cannot love me. It is fair to say that we were both unhappy and were confict avoiders. I have told my W that I intend to improve but as she points out that is just words. My actions in Plan A more concrete proof of my intent. I asked in my Plan B letter to prove my commitment with action if we reconcile.
The combination of me having to work away from home again as well as my LB running low meant I had to Plan B. This also means that if I exercise my right to live in our home that I would only be there 2-3 nights per week.
How long has the A been going on? She was going to tell me one night but was having to work it out. She could tell me without thinking when we last had SF, so I knew she was going to tell me a lie. There are other clues but it is reasnable to assume it has been going on in some form for well over a year. She has known OM 20 years.

Our 19th Wedding Anniversary was 3 weeks ago.
NS

I just wanted to post a quick thank-you note to Redhat for posting the suggetion to look at his "Venusian Lady" link. I found it very informative! I've bumped it up too, it's the one called "Hey Carolhk can you elaborate on your story please." It's time for a bit of a 180 for me too. Newsunrise - I hope all goes well with whatever changes you decide to implement in your life.

Jen

U R welcome Jen. IMHO, in order to work, your M should be a good M, full of memory ... I mean in the past should be good. Remember, why couple reconcile ? ... they have hope for happiness tommorow. 1.They were happy before going down hill, 2. currently receiving happiness (very unlikely unless WS/BS let you fillin their ENs) or 3. they see that they could be happy with you in the future (awsome plan A).

NS, I requote myself here
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[qb]How to come back from plan B ?. Well, you never start with a big bang ... move in and so on. The key in here is you have to make it safe for her to let you in. She is still in the driver seat, remember that. You could do plan A w/o contact .... You show your changes to your 2S and to all the people that are close to your WW. The key in plan A is letting WW know about your changes .... Be creative, be patient and ... don't push anything until she lead you in.
[/b]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They don't understand your plan B anyway ... lol. Did A ever taken to a day light ? WHo knows their A ?.

-rh-

Thank you Redhat
The A went into the public domain when Plan B started. This upset WS but what did she expect? With the benefit of 20:20 hindsight the A should have been exposed to daylight much earlier but I could not find enough guidance at the time. It would have meant a big LB in the middle of Plan A.
I believe SH suggests that revealing the A to the light of day asap. Perhaps this ought to be more clearly spelled out in WAT's guide along with a strategy to achieve this without causing too much damage.
NS

Just a short update. Although I have phoned the landline all week when contacting 2Ss it was only today that my W answered. I was pleasant with her and she me how I was and I answered briefly but positively and asked her the same. I then asked for the boys.
Can any experienced MBers please let me know if they see a problem with my actions.
NS