What red, you one of those people that just hassssssssssss to get the last word in on an arguement!!!!!
Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yeap, I am one of these kind ... lol !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> -rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by My favorite color-BLUE:
<strong>[QUOTE]

DB,

You said that it was your post I was referring to, well, all remember is something like "She's so fat that her arms are bigger then my thighs and then another post something like "We don't say bimbo we say blimpo" or something like that.

Well, not to be critical or judgmental or anything like that but, the point I was trying to get across on this thread is that, IN MY OPINION, when you bad mouth the OW and describe her to be this great big fat disgusting person it makes you look bad. No offense but, I've seen some of the pictures that have been posted here and you being a heavy woman and then saying that the OW is twice as big as you, well, it just made me think. What could possibly be wrong with her that her H would leave her for someone so gross and disgusting?

Then I thought "Sourgrapes," it's not that the OW is really that fat and disgusting, well, as far as her physical appearance is concerned but, that you needed to feel better about yourself. Whether it be venting or not IN MY OPINION, it still makes you look bad. Think about it you said your H left you for a great big fat disgusting OW.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, MFC-B
SOME MEN PREFER BIG BEAUTIFUL WOMEN! You saying that her H left her for someone " so gross and disgusting" IS a "judgement" on your part. Do you believe that if her H had left her for a thinner, more physically "fit" (one my H refers to as a "spinner") that it would have been "understandable"? You fail to remember that it wasn't what was "wrong" with HER that made her H go to the OW...it was what was "wrong" with HIM.

MFC-B, I see sourgrapes as well....only they come from the fact that the majority here are STAYING married...while poor you HAS to put up with OW cause your H is now HERS.

But thats just MY opinion...and we all know what they say about opinions...they're just like @$$***** everybody has one and they all stink!

<small>[ January 16, 2003, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: nutcase3 ]</small>

Most come here in pain, and along the way we get angry. To alleviate that, we are permitted to 'vent' about the OP, our spouses, our x's, and our family and friends if we need to. Because the bottom line is that NO-ONE in the real world knows what we go through with this pain. We cannot vent to our WS's like we do here if we are to follow Harley's Plan A guidelines. It is an OUTLET for anger and pain that would otherwise destroy some of us.

Many get to the stage of giving the OP a nickname. Probably most nicknames originate out of a painful situation (as mine for OW did) but now I think it is funny to call her Ms Clicketty Clack, rather than a few choice names I would RATHER call her. Make no mistake, the OP have helped to cause the most unbearable pain to BS's here - we have a RIGHT to that ANGER, and blowing off steam about it HERE is a LOT safer for us than acting out in real life. They deserve more nasty stuff to happen to them than being called a few names on an anonymous website, but there are laws to prevent it. But I, nor the majority of people here CARE what others think of us at those times.....the pain is too dep to care. The anger is too white hot. Those of us who have been here a while understand that.

You said "If you think that you can bully me into going away think again, I'm not going anywhere. I have as much right to be here as anyone else and I think it's ridiculous that I should have to pass some test just to prove something to you.

Is a matter of fact I didn't know that passing a test was a requirement for getting on this board and if it was why then why didn't they give it to me when I registered?

So go ahead, tell whom ever you think you need to tell I'm still going to come here, I'm still going to give my OPINIONS, whether you like them or not, Yes, I said opinions, not criticism, or judgment or anything else just opinions.

You have upset a LOT of regular members here, and people have been kicked off this board for causing less distress than this. You do NOT have the right to be here if you do not follow the rules. And one of the rules is NOT to upset members like you are doing.

And your 'opinions' are maybe that, but they are coming across as criticism, and we do not need anyone else on our backs right now.

Nina

Melody-

Since you asked twice, I would like to respectfully answer your question. Christ never "bashed" anyone. He was without sin and without the need to "Vent" - maliciously or otherwise. Did he ignore sin? No. Did he abhor sin? Yes. Did he forever damn the adulteress he met? Um, NO. He told her to sin no more and treated her with loving kindness. As a Christian, I think you would know well that Christ was above the pettiness that we so often display (whether we feel it's justified or not).

I have to have the last say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ... Yes, TheStorm, Jesus told her to go and sin no more .... when BS is venting here, WS/OW are sinning, continue sinning and rub it on your bleeding heart and sometime w/ ill intent. Also we are only human ... BTW: do you know what proverb said about angry BS to OP ?, what is promise to BS in the new testament in regard of OP ?. -just rethoric questions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> -

-rh-

Well Red and Daybreak, we have all tried and failed to change the subject in here..that's too bad..I hope that the people coming here realize that their point is moot or is it mute? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I don't know maybe their point is both <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and to come in here everyday to rehash only serves to bring down one's mood. It's like those debates about abortion and politics, you just can't win and sometimes you just have to call it a draw..This is one of those times.

It is Thursday, January 16, 2003, and the day will be over before you know it, do you really have the time to spare to come here and get through to noone. Someone else on this board needs your great advice, go find them.

This thread is dead.

Good day all!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TheStorm:
<strong>Melody-

Since you asked twice, I would like to respectfully answer your question. Christ never "bashed" anyone. He was without sin and without the need to "Vent" - maliciously or otherwise. Did he ignore sin? No. Did he abhor sin? Yes. Did he forever damn the adulteress he met? Um, NO. He told her to sin no more and treated her with loving kindness. As a Christian, I think you would know well that Christ was above the pettiness that we so often display (whether we feel it's justified or not).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Storm,
I'm afraid Christ would not have lived up to your standards and would like to know WHERE you get them. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to withhold criticism of evil, but EVERYWHERE it says not to commit adultery and bear false witness. Please note the latter 2 made the top 10, your idea of "sin" [criticizing evil] never even made the book.

It's because you have manufactured it. Everywhere it says to rebuke bad behavior. Nowhere does it say that it is "petty" to criticize evil.

Christ never minced words when it came to confronting sinners. He called people "vipers," "dogs", "pigs," "whoremongers," "hypocrites," etc. He showed mercy to the REPENTENT, not to the UNrepentent.

Was Christ being "petty" in your opinion when he said this:

Matthew 12:34
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Was Christ "venting" when he said this:

Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Revelation 22:14-16 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Hebrews 13:4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

I will just refer you to my other post about this:

There is nothing wrong whatsoever in criticizing the wicked. It is not a Christian tradition to withhold judgement, but a 21st century concoction that came out of the political correctness movement. If we stood silent in the face of evil, it only emboldens the perpetuators.

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

It is abhorrent to think that it is just as sinful to criticize sin as the sin itself. That is NOT a Christian standard, but a vain tradition of MAN. Just ask yourself WHO benefits from such a pernicious, abhorrent policy?

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

It is a 21st century concoction to confuse Christianity with saying "nice words." It is nothing of the sort.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

The devil can say nice words. Ted Bundy was a "nice" guy. If the Christian standard was to be "nice" then Jesus certainly FAILED the Christian standard when he called people "vipers," "pigs," "dogs," "hypocrites."

He said things like this: "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." He told folks: "You are from your father the devil."

Obviously Jesus failed political correctness and was not aware that "nice words" equalled Christianity. He never sacrified the truth in order to get along with anyone and even said:

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth; I came to bring not peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man at odds with his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against the mother-in-law. And a man's enemies will be those of his own household."

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It did NOT make Christ happy when folks tried to pass THEIR silly traditions off as Christianity:

Matthew 15:7-9
You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. "

<small>[ January 16, 2003, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by redhat:
<strong>I have to have the last say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ... Yes, TheStorm, Jesus told her to go and sin no more .... when BS is venting here, WS/OW are sinning, continue sinning and rub it on your bleeding heart and sometime w/ ill intent. Also we are only human ... BTW: do you know what proverb said about angry BS to OP ?, what is promise to BS in the new testament in regard of OP ?. -just rethoric questions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> -

-rh-</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">redhat, it is not a "sin" nor is it "petty" to criticize evil. That is a fabrication designed by very confused people to guilt already hurting victims.

And for the non-Christians, my favorite quote from a Unitarian minister:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ January 16, 2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</small>

Nellie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just have to..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


One day a while back, a man, his heart heavy with grief, was
walking in the
woods. As he thought about his life this day, he knew many things
were not
right. He thought about those who had lied about him back when he
had a
job.
His thoughts turned to those who had stolen his things and
cheated him. He
remembered family that had passed on. His mind turned to the
illness he had
that no one could cure. His very soul was filled with anger,
resentment and
frustration. Standing there this day, searching for answers he
could not
find, knowing all else had failed him, he knelt at the base of an
old oak
tree to seek the one he knew would always be there, and with
tears in his
eyes, he prayed "Lord- You have done wonderful things for me in
this life.
You have told me to do many things for you, and I happily obeyed.
Today,
you
have told me to forgive. I am sad, Lord, because I cannot. I
don't know
how.
It is not fair Lord. I didn't deserve these wrongs that were done
against
me
and I shouldn't have to forgive. As perfect as your way is Lord,
this one
thing I cannot do, for I don't know how to forgive. My anger is
so deep
Lord, I fear I may not hear you, but I pray that you teach me to
do this
one
thing I cannot do - Teach me To Forgive.

As he knelt there in the quiet shade of that old oak tree, he
felt
something
fall onto his shoulder. He opened his eyes. Out of the corner of
one eye,
he
saw something red on his shirt. He could not turn to see what it
was
because
where the oak tree had been was a large square piece of wood in
the ground.
He raised his head and saw two feet held to the wood with a large
spike
through them. He raised his head more, and tears came to his eyes
as he saw
Jesus hanging on a cross. He saw spikes in His hands, a gash in
His side, a
torn and battered body, deep thorns sunk into His head. Finally
he saw the
suffering and pain on His precious face. As their eyes met, the
man's tears
turned to sobbing, and Jesus began to speak. Have you ever told a
lie, he
asked? The man answered - yes Lord. Have you ever been given too
much
change and kept it? The man answered yes Lord. And the man sobbed
more and
more. Have you ever taken something from work that wasn't yours,
Jesus
asked? And the man answered yes Lord. Have you ever sworn, using
my
Father's
name in vain? The man, crying now, answered yes Lord. As Jesus
asked many
more times, "Have you ever"? The man's crying became
uncontrollable, for he
could only answer yes Lord. Then Jesus turned His head from one
side to the
other, and the man felt something fall on his other shoulder. He
looked and
saw that it was the blood of Jesus. When he looked back up, his
eyes met
those of Jesus, and there was a look of love the man had never
seen or
known
before. Jesus said, I didn't deserve this either, but I forgive
you.

Neesha,

That's a wonderful poem but I don't think anyone here is arguing that you should NOT forgive, just that it is NOT wrong to criticize wicked people. They are two entirely different things. If someone murders my son and then repents and asks my forgiveness, I am required to forgive him. HOWEVER, that does not change the fact that this man is a murderer. Even so, I think most of the criticism here is focused on UNREPENTENT OP's, which make it a moot point.

The Bible is real clear that forgiveness is a requirement when one REPENTS, that does not mean that one is required to sit silent or ignore sin.

Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

Redhat,
I just have to say, I've been here since 12/98 have several thousands of posts, the majority right here on GQII, so I think it is safe to say I've read tens of thousands of posts...and I can only answer 3 of 5 of your questions!

I could probably locate the answer to one more...and I don't really care what an electric fence personality is, so that probably just didn't make it into my memory banks....

So, ya mean, if my identity was in question, I'd be out because I missed the quiz?

But, I can answer a bonus Q, why is Lor(Lor) my logon name...can that count?

On Christ peaceful nature:
One thought about Jesus, do you suppose when He drove the moneychangers out of the Temple, he asked politely and they were glad to go?

I think there are several angles being argued about here, and they get mixed up together, my issue is the consequences of acting vengefylly on the one acting thusly. I was not making a Christian argument per se, I was using Christian behaviour (and I could have used any behaviour instead) cause it is easy to identify. If you want to be a Christian than vengefull behaviour is something to avoid. Gratuitious bashing of anyone (just happens to be op here, but could be a bigot of any stripe, a terrorist, a sexual predator etc.) is harmfull to the basher. Melody you are back-tracking some, and now I can agree with your position. But earlier you (and others) said things that could be interpreted to say an op is deserveing of bashing simply because they are an op (regardless of anything else about them). And no, I am not going to "go back" and try to illustrate that, if one wants to say the interpretation is all my misunderstanding, that is fine with me I will yeild the point.

melody...I don't think anyone here is arguing that you should NOT forgive, just that it is NOT wrong to criticize wicked people.

la...Absolutely, it is how the criticism (and the intent of the criticiser) is made that is the issue....least it is for me.

melody... Even so, I think most of the criticism here is focused on UNREPENTENT OP's, which make it a moot point.

la...The repentent status of the op is irrelevant. If one is still behaving in an inappropriate way, one addresses that. But even if they are repentent, criticising their behaviour is still ok (although it needs to stop before it becomes abusive through excessive repeitition).

melody...The Bible is real clear that forgiveness is a requirement when one REPENTS, that does not mean that one is required to sit silent or ignore sin.

la...This always confuses me. We are required to forgive our enemies (who clearly have not repented), so the repentent status of someone seems irrelevant to our need to forgive. In addition, how can we be absolutely certain someone has repented, maybe they are lieing to us, or maybe our standards are too high. Or maybe we are confused alltogether and they have nothing they need to repent to us about, or maybe we are culpable too (like mistreated the op) so need to repent as well, so how does that work...dueling repentence? Seems pretty cumbersome to me as a "rule".

As for all the Jesus stuff, also irrelevant, He was Jesus, we are us, we cannot judge, He could. So we have to be a little careful about justifying our behaviour by saying Jesus did it. Somehow I think His motivations (and authority) were a bit different than ours.

And Honorable mention goes to Lady_Terry good try!!!!!!

"Judge not, lest ye be judged." Matthew 7:1

"Can't we all just get along?" Rodney King

Lurking,

Jesus judges the SOUL of man on Judgement Day, but we are to judge man and his behavior with "righteous judgement" while on earth. We are COMMANDED to judge.

And while Jesus is God and obviously has powers that we do not, that certainly does not mean that Jesus was SINNING when he called people those names. Nothing could be more absurd [even borders on blasphemy]. To imply otherwise is to say that God is a sinner. It simply is not a sin and we are commanded to emulate God.

You asked how would we "know" that someone has repented? We can see with our eyes that they have. If they stop conducting the behavior, then it is likely they have repented. [ie: turned away from the former behavior] However, we don't HAVE to have proof, only their apology and their committment to repent is sufficient. And do people sometimes LIE about changing their ways? Yes, but how does negate the original point? So what?

And yes, we are to forgive our enemies. But we are to do it according to biblical standards, *NOT* the standards of the political correctness movement. God does not forgive without repentence - that is HIS standard and that is the standard He set down for us. [see scriptures above] God does not pass out mass "forgiveness" for the unrepentent like cheap candy and neither are we commanded to.

Used that way, it is nothing more than a selfish gesture intended to make the forgiver "feel good." [me, me, me, me] It is supposed to be much more than that. It is intended to be something you GIVE to the person who sinned against you to mend the relationship. They certainly do not benefit if you give them something they don't want or even care about. That helps them in no way. That is an abuse of an intended beautiful act of forgiveness that has been turned into a cheap selfish act.

And then the "virtuous" forgivers pat themselves on the back for doing nothing MORE than making *THEMSELVES* feel better. They did absolutely NOTHING for the sinner.

So that brings me back to my original question. Was Christ acting "unChristian" when he called people names?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by shattered in SF:
<strong>"Judge not, lest ye be judged." Matthew 7:1

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should we perhaps show the quote in proper context so we don't confuse people of its meaning?

Matthew 7: 1-5
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

<small>[ January 16, 2003, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Pretty much agree melody (with caveat that self-serving bashing reflects as poorly on the baser as self-pserving forgiving relfects poorly on the forgiver), as for the Jesus sinning part, that needs to be directed to someone else, not a position I would take.

melody...Jesus judges the SOUL of man on Judgement Day, but we are to judge man and his behavior with "righteous judgement" while on earth. We are COMMANDED to judge.

la...no argument ( I suspect different definitions of judgement apply. But then clearly commonsense tells us we cannot judge in the same manner God does, so should be obvious..anyways I support the death penalty, so what do I know).

melody...we are commanded to emulate God.

la...Ah yes, and in pursuit of this probably more misery has been inflicted on man by other men than anything else (the inquistion comes to mind). Since we cannot emulate God, how does this work exactly, we try to do something impossible, and then justify whatever we do cause we are trying? We are imperfect, so that implies we cannot even know (with exactitude) what we are supposed to be emulateing (and could therefore seriously err). I think there is great danger in making emulation the linchpin of behaviour. I think we are suppose to understand we are also human and how humans functiuon is relavant to behavioural choices as well.

melody...You asked how would we "know" that someone has repented? We can see with our eyes that they have. If they stop conducting the behavior, then it is likely they have repented.

la...Not good enough, not even close. People regularly lie, and misrepresent (even to themself). I will go along a bit with what you see with your own eyes though. I will even agree that what people say has some merit as well. My issue is though, that anything specific has to happen (meet our rule) before we can forgive. But I was talking about gratuitious bashing, and the negative behaviour modification that has on the basher, not a discussion of forgiveness, a different animal alltogether...but what the hey.

melody... However, we don't HAVE to have proof, only their apology and their committment to repent is sufficient. And do people sometimes LIE about changing their ways? Yes, but how does negate the original point? So what?

la...I am no longer sure what the original point is. If we don't need proof though, then why do we need anything at all? Why not just assume that the perp is repentent and just does not know how to communicate that to us? If that is so, we now risk denying forgiveness due to a communication defect, is that fair? You see melody, that is the problem with trying to set up specific conditions and then set yourself up to judge those conditions, you are going to be wrong eventually, and where to draw the line is a nightmare.

melody...And yes, we are to forgive our enemies. But we are to do it according to biblical standards, *NOT* the standards of the political correctness movement.

la...ok, I am no lover of PC, that is for sure.

melody...God does not forgive without repentence - that is HIS standard and that is the standard He set down for us. [see scriptures above] God does not pass out mass "forgiveness" for the unrepentent like cheap candy and neither are we commanded to.

la...Your choice of words does not make your point (ie cheap candy). The fact is we are imperfect will never be able to repent perfectly, and indeed ALL of us are at different levels on the repentence scale...so how does that work with God? I sure don't know, and I know you don't either. But I agree there are standards, and I think I have some idea of what they are. But I know of no way to articulate them as a rule that can then be applied to everyone (say like melody for example).

melody...Used that way, it is nothing more than a selfish gesture intended to make the forgiver "feel good." [me, me, me, me] It is supposed to be much more than that.

la...I like this, and agree wholeheartedly.

melody...It is intended to be something you GIVE to the person who sinned against you to mend the relationship. They certainly do not benefit if you give them something they don't want or even care about.

la..I agree, but I think it is two things. What you just mentioned, but also for us without any regard who or what the other is. It is a armour against the poison of hate, vengeance, etc. I cringe everytime I read someone here wish illwill on the op cause it will make the bs feel better. Not cause I am worried about the op, but because such focus turns the bs away from God, and that is what satan is about.

melody...that helps them in no way. That is an abuse of an intended beautiful act of forgiveness that has been turned into a cheap selfish act.

la...I don't know. I don't get the sense forgiveness is supposed to be some beautiful touchy feely thing. I think it is more like doing something hard cause it is good for you (like exercise, getting all sweaty and dirty, but for a good purpose, maybe even hurting yourself a bit, or doing it wrong, but with good intention, etc. etc.).

melody...And then the "virtuous" forgivers pat themselves on the back for doing nothing MORE than making *THEMSELVES* feel better. They did absolutely NOTHING for the sinner.

la...Pride comes in many forms, no argument from me. Forgiveness is not a ticket you punch, and I wince when I read support of forgiveness as a virtue, reflecting favorably on the forgiver. I think we can admire and respect (and learn) from those who forgive, but if one is tooting their own horn, and forgiveing blindly without any understanding of what they are doing, not sure that is a good thing. But I do think we are all enjoined to "forgive" our trespassers as a tenent of Christianity (on some basica level), that means we will indeed be occassionally forgiving those who have wronged us without them even knowing it. Would you agree? It appears to me to be something like a rejection of the instictive response to hurt someone who has hurt us, does that make any sense? If we are "fallen", and unworthy, then it makes sense part of what God wants (each) us to do unilaterally is work against blind instinctual responses that seperate us from His Ways. You are straining my brain here melody, I was only really interested in the notion it is on to bash op cause they are op...or that one can profit personally by venting on someone just cause they are an easy target. Personally I think venting has become sort of PC, as well. Oh, it is ok if I say vile, hurtful, disgusting things, I am just venting and I feel better....I don't think so. There are consequences to ALL behaviuour, and bad thoughts reflect negatively on the one having them...so while getting some anger out is a good thing, it is limited, and not just do whatever feels good (hey, isn't that one of the laments about affair behaviour, it just felt good?).

melody...So that brings me back to my original question. Was Christ acting "unChristian" when he called people names?

la...Don't think I was involved in that discussion, but I don't think Christ can act unChristian if you follow my drift <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ January 16, 2003, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LurkingAbout:
<strong>

melody...we are commanded to emulate God.

la...Ah yes, and in pursuit of this probably more misery has been inflicted on man by other men than anything else (the inquistion comes to mind). Since we cannot emulate God, how does this work exactly, we try to do something impossible, and then justify whatever we do cause we are trying? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well no. When we commit evil we are not EMULATING God, because God is not evil nor is he the author of evil. There was nothing just or "Christian" about the inquisition. [God's standard is for people to CHOOSE Him, not be coerced] The evil that man commits cannot be attributed to God, but to man. When people commit evil in the name of God, that is not a reflection on God, but on them. We are commanded to obey God via the commandments, we don't get to make up our own commandments. So in that way we don't emulate God.

And your question about the requirements for forgiveness is a very good one. Basically, we cannot know the true heart of man, only God knows that. So when we forgive someone we are always taking the chance that they could be fooling us. Its even likely that they WILL do the same thing again! But thats ok. We just forgive them again if they seek it. We have done our part and moved on. If they choose to continue sinning, that is between them and God.

"....If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him." Luke 17:3-4

<small>[ January 16, 2003, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>