Mortar,

I know I am harsh. I can be the most forgiving person but I have come through hell to recognize crap when I hear it. And whoever said women can never fool another woman...oh so true. Women are women's worst enemies. We know each other too well. And being a BS I understand my own kind even better...I see women play with men all the time, sadly we are socialized to do so. Ofcourse this is not all women but your WW is a classic example.

Consider what kind of a woman has the strength to not tuck her kids in bed by choice each and every night but lacks the strength to extricate a parasitic womanizer from her life. HHMMM??

Here are the facts. She will come back to the marriage IF:

1. You do exactly as she says...
2. Believe every lie she has told...
3. Give her all the time in the world...
4. Raise her kids while she dates...
5. Be her shoulder to cry on, her cheerleader, and sorry to be so blunt but her "intimate servicer" on demand...
6. Do things her way, on her time without complaint (She has openly stated that she will not do things your way and you should be patient...Believe her on this)

We hear time and again how she has a hard time breaking things off. Gee I recall she couldnt move out of your house/bed fast enough, into her own place...OH wait she did wait around so she could steal half of the profit from the sale of the house. But ofcourse she used that money for a good cause...breast augmentation and maintainance of her bachelorette pad. She is NO DUMMY. What this translates into is not trouble with ending relationships she has trouble being out of control.

The independence issue...may I be profound: "BLAH BLAH BLAH, CRAP CRAP CRAP, BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!"

There are women who crave independence, need to establish themselves beyond wife/mother. This is an admirable aspiration. What your wife is doing is not admirable and an affront to those women who work within their marriage/motherhood to establish a feeling of personal independence.

There is something I give her credit for...she did tell you straight out: If you get deployed she cannot handle that. (I do not know the likelyhood of that happening or not but rest assured she is being completely honest on this one.)

I am sorry to be sarcastic and harsh but she angers me. She twists your mind and heart at will.

You ever hear that joke about the man in the flood. He is a faithful man. He stands on his rooftop believing that God will save him. A canoe comes along...the man refuses the ride saying: "God will save me." Then a motor boat...again: "God will save me" Then a helicopter...no thanks "God will save me." The man eventually drowns. When he reaches heaven he asks God: "I believed why didnt you save me?" God replies: "I sent a row boat, a motor boat, and a helicopter...you said no thanks."

Mortar...she makes no move towards saving this marriage. She has rejected motherhood, fidelity, honesty time and again. I hate to see marriages end but it is clear to me she has no intention of being your wife on your terms...I just dont want to see you drown.

continuing prayers

ayslyne

MM: I agree w/ JL. See if you can find it in yourself to leave a place for your W. BUT, I wonder if you might not be much happier w/ her if she came back after a Divorce. Why? Because the worst that could happen, the D, had happened, and you would know that she was coming back because she wanted to, not just because she was afraid of change, or afraid of divorce, or losing you, or whatever. That is why Plan B is recommended. It simulates divorce, so the WS can EXPERIENCE the consequences of their potential future actions. She is still in contact w/ you. She has not yet experienced the total separation that divorce brings. Once that happens, you can be sure if whe wants to come back, it is because she wants to, not just because she does not want to lose something. She will have already lost it.

Thank you everyone for continuing to stay with me during this. Things are truly moving rapidly, with a whole lot happening yesterday. But again, let me answer some of your posts first.

JL: First off…what do you do for a living. Being about 20 years my senior, you are roughly the age of my father if he was still alive. Your advice is a lot along the lines of what I imagine he would have said. I understand what you have said here, and while my mindset may be to focus fully on a future without her, I also know because of my military training that you must be prepared for an OPPORTUNITY wherever it may pop up, even if it isnt in the place you wanted or expected. You must be prepared, because many times, the opportunity presents itself only once and gives you one shot at it. So, I do know that is a possibility. But if I am to pursue divorce, I have to clear out head and mind and stick with the Operations Order…that is until such time that the "battlefield" situation presents me with a different course of action. Which appears to be happening, I think. Read my update below, because especially after what you, and some of these gals have posted recently, I do know if this is an opportunity, or a feint. And my battle plans may be entirely different depending on which one it is. But again, read below and let me know what you think. Oh, what you said about K and his pregnant wife really hit home. God asks us to die for our wives, to treat them as Christ treats us. Well, Christ was betrayed by those closest to Him, and killed by His own people. And still, He took that opportunity to show us how much He loved us. Very humbling when dealing with my current situation. And why I am confused about the current situation below. And are you helping? Of course! Making things harder? Of course! But help isnt always easy, and opportunities as they present themselves may not always be the easiest or practical way of doing something. So, you are right as usual. Sometimes, it is just hard to see the battlefield situation when you are locked in hand-to-hand combat.

Engineer bob: I am not LDS. My church believes in 1st Corinthians 5 & 6, and that a divorce not recognized by the church is not a divorce in God's eyes. So, I have initiated a church divorce hearing, basically, which would be started in the next few weeks. "What is bound on earth will be bound in heaven." Thus, once the church decides my marriage is dead, it is dead and finished, even though the legal paperwork has not been finished.

MelodyLane: Oh, I do believe what you said about women fooling men but cant fool each other. That is why I listen very closely to gals like you and Asylyne. And Kily, for she has been in my wife's shoes. I definitely am sick of being Charlie Brown and having the football pulled away. But at this point, the option is to either not play anymore, or to give it one more shot if the opportunity (to borrow from JL) presents itself. See below my current situation after yesterday and please chime in. I believe that what I do over the next several days and weeks will decide if this marriage is truly over.

Ayslyne: Look…I like harsh…and blunt honesty. It is the only way I can make decisions, when I know all of the facts and weigh my options. Your list of facts has been the modus operandi of my wife throughout this ordeal. I am totally 100% in agreement with you. Which is why I am very perplexed on what to do with the situation that presented itself over the last week, and came to a head last night It doesn't fit this model. So, is this the opportunity that JL talks about? Or is it more of the same, with just a different wrapper? And how do I know? See below what happened and my questions. It would be easy for me to just protect myself and walk away from this, but again, is this is an opportunity, do I really want to blow it? It may be the one and only one we get. And I definitely don't want to miss the boat, helo, etc if this is God sent. So be harsh. I love it!

Johnh39: Well, I definitely agree that I want to know her motivations. Which is why I am at the problem I am below because what happened over the past week, and definitely last night does not fit the pattern. And I cannot figure out what ulterior motives she may have, if in fact she does. Or is this an honest fog lifting and attempt at reconciliation? Anyway, see the update below.

Now the update…………..

Well, things presented themselves very quickly last night and I had to make decisions on the run. But I only made temporary ones, preferring to think this out and to see what everyone thought before proceeding on a more permanent basis.

You see, Sunday night, my wife's apartment flooded. She has been dealing with that mess, and anyone that has read my initial post almost a year ago knows that it was a flood in our house 4 years ago that started us down this road. So she got some very big flash backs. Anyway, she calls yesterday afternoon as I was leaving work crying. She states that she has to leave her apartment for a week because they have to gut some of the walls and flooring because of the flood and having to repair pipes. But she doesn't say anything after that. I ask her what she wants to do, and she says she doesn't know.

Now, I know what many of you are thinking…she is trying to use this to get me to put her up and maybe even use it to back me off from custody hearing Friday. But read on, because that would have happened in the past…but it hasn't here. She can always just move in with OM for the week. Or, she spends 3-4 days a week with a nursing school study partner, staying at her house near the school. When she had her boob job in August, she stayed with them while she recovered (her friend and her friend's husband). And her best friend doesn't live far either, so she would be welcome to stay there. So it is not like she doesn't have a place to stay. Like I said, she is only home 4-5 days a week anyway, staying at her friends house to study. And as I go through this, understand that during the last two weeks, my wife has not asked me to stop any of the proceedings. In fact, she has asked for nothing, except for me not to shut her out and to continue to talk to her.

Anyway, I told her I was on the way to the counselor for the kids, but would call her when I got out to see what she wanted to do. I got the distinct impression that she wanted me to ask her to come home. On the way to the counselor, I told the kids that the apartment had flooded and Mom needed a place to stay. My two youngest said "Mom should come home and stay with us." But it was my oldest (10 yo) that made me proud. He said "Well, if she is still doing the same stuff, then she should stay at OM's house." I never even mentioned any options to them….just asked them what Mom should do. I asked him that if she wasn't still doing all she has been doing, then what should she do? My son said she should come home then. WOW!!

I talked the counselor, and told her of my concerns about the kids. That even if it is only a week, I am concerned that the kids will get hopes up and get crushed again when she leaves. The counselor talked to them individually and believes at least the older two understand that they shouldn't think everything is okay yet. The youngest (5 yo) really still doesn't understand and just wants his mother home.

I called a mutual friend of ours and she said "Do you want your marriage back? Then do the right thing and let her stay. She will get a week of family life after 6 months separated from all of you. And, it appears she is trying to make the move home anyway, and this just may be the excuse she needs to make the hard decisions." So, I called my wife back and offered her to stay in my room, and I would sleep on the couch.

I asked if she was coming home tonight (last night) and she said she didn't have to be out until the morning so she would stay the night (it was already late at this point anyway). She also said she had some things she needed taking care of. I asked her what they were. At first, she didn't want to tell me because of what I did last week (calling OM and telling him what she had told him about me and about her terrible trip to Florida with him). But I told her that she could keep it to herself if she wanted, but I am here is she wanted to talk. She then said that she needed to "deal" with the OM. As she talked to me, she basically stated that she was telling him to leave, that she was going home, that this was all a mistake. I asked if he was coming over to her place so she could do this. She said "he had better not." She said she would be calling him.

Well, as everyone knows, I believe in the Ronald Reagan maxim "trust, but verify." So, I staged a friend outside her apartment for the evening to make sure what she was saying was true. And she stayed in for the evening, had no visitors, and actually went to sleep around 8:45pm.

This morning she woke me up with a call. She sounded a lot more cheerful she asked if I had been thinking about her. I asked how things went last night. She said she wanted to talk about it tonight (she had to go into work shortly). She said she would call this afternoon so we could set up this evening and moving some of her stuff in. Again, I am still under the belief that this is for the week that her apartment is down, but her Mom and our mutual friend believe that this is the true fog lifting, and once she is in, she wont leave. She then asked what I was doing on Friday. I said nothing but work. She then asked if I wanted to go see a movie. I asked her if she meant the whole family. She said no…just her and I.

So, this is where I am at. While there are some similarities to past false reconciliations, this one is so much different. There are no demands on her part. None. Even the custody hearing in two days is still on. If I had told her to stay at her friends house over the next week, she would have. But I have to believe that her telling OM it is over and to leave her alone and that she was going home (and I will confirm this tonight) tells me she isnt thinking just a week because her apartment flooded. Like I said, she had other places she could go. She knows what criteria I have set up for her return to our home and it appears she is doing it. #1: OM is gone. Well, if she did it last night, then that one is gone. #2: she seeks counseling. Well, again, she is already back in counseling with our counselor as of last week. #3: That we set up a plan for recovery and reconciliation. And I believe by her statements to me last night that she wants to sit down over this next week and go through this and map out what needs to be done.

Guys and gals I am in a very dangerous situation. Not so much for me, but for the kids. I am strong again, and unlike in the past, if she falls back again, it wont floor me. Nothing has changed in my reality anyway. Divorce is still on. But I told her last night that the kids were excited about her coming home, and she had better not disappoint them again…because I would have no mercy on her the next time. I told her that if she had ANY doubts about what she was doing, she should stay at her friends house and take more time to figure this out That way, she doesn't set up the kids for a fall. She said she understood and wants to come home tonight.

Even her voice is different over the last two weeks. For the first time in 19 months, she actually is sounding like herself. But again, I am proceeding with great caution. I have not said move all her stuff in. As a matter of fact, I will only allow what she needs for the week, until we know more and work things out (the plan). And confirm that OM is truly gone. I told her that even if this is permanent, that this will be slow going. That I am going to sleep on the couch for awhile, and there will be no SF.

She is going to have to earn it, like Coffeeman said. And slowly. Right now, I have given up nothing but my bed and a key to my house. Now we will see what she does with this.

Okay gals…I know your crap meter might be going off, so let me have it. How should I proceed?

In His Arms.

MM-

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are a big believer in your faith. I am wondering if you see this "flood" as divine intervention? Don't you think that the circumstances surrounding the start of this are too close to ignore the possible end of this?

Part of the reason that I feel it was different was voiced by you in your post. It hit me that your wife made NO DEMNADS when she discovered that there was a woman potentially in your life. Not ONCE did she pull the "Let her go" routine. Not ONCE did she say - STOP the D. Not once was she trying to manipulate the circumstances to suit her. Instead, she took a chance at being vulnerable......that is at least what I picked up from your recent posts.

The one thing that I am wondering is what are YOU feeling right now? What is your gut telling you? How is this affecting the contact that you have with your new friend? Is she being supportive or have you stepped away?

I can't imagine what you must be going through. I hope for you and your children's sake that this is the REAL DEAL. It sounds to me as if it is....

Kily: "You are a big believer in your faith. I am wondering if you see this "flood" as divine intervention?" Well, I think so. Trying to discern exactly what is happening. but it may intervention on His part, a final push on my wife to stand up and do what she appears to want to do...come home.

"Don't you think that the circumstances surrounding the start of this are too close to ignore the possible end of this?" Oh yeah!! That's why I feel that this is different this time. Just not sure how to approach it. and no guarantee that it works out, even if valid

"Part of the reason that I feel it was different was voiced by you in your post. It hit me that your wife made NO DEMNADS when she discovered that there was a woman potentially in your life. Not ONCE did she pull the "Let her go" routine. Not ONCE did she say - STOP the D. Not once was she trying to manipulate the circumstances to suit her. Instead, she took a chance at being vulnerable......that is at least what I picked up from your recent posts." Exactly!!!

"The one thing that I am wondering is what are YOU feeling right now? What is your gut telling you?" My gut is telling me, unlike before, that I am finally talking to my wife. But again, can I believe it. And even if true, I have to be very careful to create a safe environment for her to come out of the fog into. If I hammer her, or scare her, she will run back into that fog.and this time I know she wont come back out.

"How is this affecting the contact that you have with your new friend? Is she being supportive or have you stepped away?" I have not talked to her in a couple of days. I know this will not be good for her, but I have been honest since the beginning and told her that until it is over, it aint over (meaning my marriage). So, I know this wont bode well with her (my wife moving in, etc). But no promises or lines have been crossed, and I hope she will continue to understand. Which makes this moving in even more important because besides putting my kids back thru this, if this doesnt work out, my wife may be also hurting someone that I might want in my future after a divorce. So my wife better be damn well sure of what she is doing because as I said, I will show NO MERCY if this is another false start.

"I can't imagine what you must be going through. I hope for you and your children's sake that this is the REAL DEAL. It sounds to me as if it is...." Well, even with the Prozac I am taking, the anxiety level has heightened. I even told my wife last night that I was glad that she gave me a day to straighten thinks up because I needed to get the house in order. it isnt bad, but not what I want if she is coming home. I was never like this before and really didnt help out with housework. I told her that it probably sounded silly, but that a lot of changes have happened to me over this, and one is my insistence on being involved at home and things being clean. She said she knew there had been changes in me, otherwise she wouldnt be talking to me or coming home. And yes, we will see if this is the REAL DEAL. If it is, then I will be happy. but the jury is still out.

MM:

It's simple, but not easy: JL's right. This is an opportunity! You've seized the opportunity and have all your waterfoul aligned coaxially, which is good. I suppose there's nothing you can do about the risk of her backsliding and disappointing your kids, though. The best things in life are worth taking risks, even risks like this. And remember, no matter what happens, your W will always be your kids' mother, and will always be a person deserving of a happy life. It certainly helps if they're willing to work to get that happy life, and work with YOU rather than with someone else, but if K's sitch is any indication, it shows that perseverence and hard work on YOURSELF can pay off for all of you (you, your W, and your kids).

SS recently asked ME if I thought I could hang in there for something like 3 YEARS if it took that long for my W to get over RM and commit fully to our M, and I think I responded with something like "no way!" But I've often noted my own ability to hang on "just a little bit longer" has always surprised me over the past year since D-day, so I won't say "no way" anymore. Sure, I may be faced with temptations to give up, be they meeting someone, my W refusing to give up RM, or just me getting tired of the whole thing. But you know what? When I really think about what I have to do about ME, for ME, I can think of nobody that knows me better than my W to help me do that. She may not be "in the game" fully as far as reconciliation is concerned, but if I give HER the opportunity to choose to work on herself and our M by providing the safe environment for her to do so, rather than reacting to what I imagine she's thinking, I increase the chances of her doing so at some point. Still, hopefully sooner than later, but with less and less of a "time limit" needed on my part.

All this takes an intestinal fortitude that I believe you have achieved in the face of all that has been dished out to you over the past year or so. I believe you are now at a place, in your own mind and heart, that you CAN have her back home and continue to work on yourself and your M, with the more-frequent communication between you two giving the best OPPORTUNITY for complete reconciliation to develop. You can recognize the "game playing" early when or if it comes up, and ignore it or work around it (or point it out to her and help her stop it!) without LBing, I believe.

Good for you, MM! That's where we all want to be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-Qfwfq

MM-

I've got to hand it to you man, you've come light years in just the past couple of months with the way you interact with your W. You know the potential pitfalls with getting too excited about this latest turn so go for it and see what happens! This whole thing with you and this lady friend seems to have really thrown her for a loop so I'd suggest you stay vague on that front, even if things are on hold. You've already stated that you'll be monitoring her actions so don't feel bad about being suspicious and see how serious she is. I'm pulling for you and am sitting on the edge of my seat...........

Mortar,

Just sent you an e-mail but, LET HER COME HOME it's what you've been "working" for all these months.

Never mind "why" it's happening, it does not matter. The important thing is IT's HAPPENING!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm happy for you - just go slow and easy!!!

MITT

MM, you are Sir a credit to those here who want their WS home. I wish you really well, this is a great chance. Neil.

MM-

This is going to be one heck of a crescendo for that book that you are writing! I want an autographed copy.......

Mortar,

Ok...Here are the rules:

1. No OM
2. No SF...No pecks, No long hugs, No back rubs (her prescence will be intoxicating do not underestimate it)
3. Protect your children
4. No halt of any proceeding without concrete proof of serious commitment to marriage
5. Keep eyes open, feet on the ground
6. Take it a day at a time, examining where you both are now and what serious recovery would mean for you both...you think this is hard: are you at the point to live what it takes to get beyond the 150 carnival rides she has taken you on? Are you ready to check her cell, her email, the time she supposed to leave work, etc to help rebuild trust...is she? (And you know that this is only one minor aspect of recovery, consider the rest...is it for you?)

BTW someone mentioned that they thought the way she handled the revelation of your friend was a good sign. I disagree. She does not need to demand you let the friend go for two reasons: First, she knows you...knows you won't cross the line. Second, and again sorry to be so harsh, she knows exactly how to work you...demands aren't her thing...she has got power over you and she knows it. (What does she need to do, mention your on her mind in a intimate way, ask for back rubs, be flirty while making no real strides to boot the OM...friend or no...Mortar still brings Mrs. roses...now that is power. I say again, she is NO DUMMY!!)

Even after all my doom and gloom. I do really hope this is the beginning of a new beginning. The overall best advice you have ever recieved came from a very intelligent 10 year old. If she is continue the way she has she belongs with the OM...if the OM is truly extricated from her life she belongs at home. The kid is smart.

continuing prayers,

ayslyne

<small>[ January 29, 2003, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: ayslyne ]</small>

I'm just a lurker and cannot possibly provide good advise. But not wanting to spoil the hurrahs here and heightened expectations by everyone (we all want a happy ending for our hero) - I just have one question :

What happens then if you get deployed?

I'm sorry - somebody has to play devil's advocate here.

May God always provide you MM the power of discernment.

XTREME

Pray, pray, pray... and listen...

I have been reading your story for some time and praying for you and your family. From what I have read recently, your prayers are being answered because a peace has come into your life.

Allow the Holy Spirit to continue to guide you and be your comfort so that you can take care of yourself and your children.

MM, you are a strong, Godly man who I greatly admire. Good things are in your future.

Press on.

hg

Ayslyne-

I just wanted to comment that my opinions were based on the experience that I went through in the SAME position as MM's wife.

I know that you feel VERY strongly about your views, and I agree that MM should approach this as if it were field filled with land mines......but, I have gone through it from the other side, and I KNOW in my heart what I felt and thought when I faced reality. There are too many paralells to my own story for me to ignore.

Maybe the only reason that my opinion differs from all the other women on this post is that I was the cheater.....I could be really wrong and would EAT crow pie if I am. My gut is telling me otherwise, and I always go with my gut instincts.....

I do know that people can change, sometimes in a moment when an epiphany strikes them. For me, this happened almost exactly as this is playing out. Maybe that is why I aam feeling so strongly about it.

MM- Sorry to hijack, but I really wanted to voice what I felt.

I've been thinking about you and how hard things are going to get for you in the next few months if this is "truly" the start of recovery. I am hoping that it is the case because it IS an opportunity that I NEVER was able to receive....

Maybe that is why I want to believe in you W so badly....

I appreciate all the posts and it seems everyone is seeming to say the same things. That being said, I think I will give you all the update to what happened last night and this morning. Before that, I just wanted to respond to a few questions posed by all of you.

XTREME: If I get deployed, nothing will change anyway, whether she is home or not. The kids will go with her. She is the other parent, and even if I have custody, she would get custody while I was gone. So, nothing changes on that front.

Asylyne: That list is great and I am going to try to stay with it. Thanks again for keeping me grounded. See the update below.

Kily: No problem with the hijacking. I think that Asylyne is saying the same things as you are, but she has also been here with me since the beginning and knows that 150 carnival rides I have been on. I guess she is saying "be cautious." But your insight is also important because I believe you may just have my wife's pulse now. See the update below.

the update......

Well, she came home last night. She called me yesterday afternoon. I had originally contacted her on something to do with the kids. She sounded crabby, and somewhat confrontational. I remained quiet for the most part and stayed with the task at hand. She then piped in that I was being awful quiet, and I said a lot has changed with me and one thing is that I am not going to spout off anymore, but take the time to think about what I am going to say before I say it. She then apologized for being crabby, that there had been a problem with a tech at work, and that she wasnt mad or upset with me. She then said she would see me later that night.

Well, around 6:30pm, she shows up at the door with her bags (you gals can never pack light, can you?). She had dinner with us, and then we all went to bed by 8:30 (she was exhausted, and had to get up again at 4:30am this morning). We did get a chance to briefly talk last night, and again this morning as she got ready and here are the highlights...

1. OM is gone...finished. She doesnt even want to talk to him. I told her she had to have the final talk, to tell him NC. She said she didnt think he ever would. I said this isnt for her or him, it is for me. I said if she didnt want to talk, she could write a NC letter. I said I would even help her write it. She said we could do it this weekend.

2. She asked to start at my gym and that she was leaving her gym immediately. She has been at that gym for 6 years, and a lot of her friends are there. But this is also where she met OM, and he still goes there. So, I hadnt even told her I wanted her out of there...she told me she was leaving. When I asked why, she said "You know why."

3. She asked to take me to the movies tomorrow night.

4. She wants to hash everything out this weekend, to tell me EVERYTHING about her, what happened, what happened in Florida. She wants me to ask all the questions I want. And then she said, when we are done getting everything out, she wants this behind us, to not be continually brought up.

5. She said "I am coming home now."

6. She said she wants to take me away for Valentines Day for a couple of days.

7. She wants to get a storage unit to store her stuff that she has in her apartment.

8. She said she has changed so much over the last 2 years, and that the "burning bush moment" she had with God when she went with the OM to Florida in December was like "a vail being lifted from in front of my eyes...for the first time in all of this, I saw everything clearly...and I didnt like what I saw in OM or myself." Sounds like the fog being blown away.

9. Says she wants another baby, but wants to wait two years until she finishes her bachelors degree, and more importantly, until we heal.

10. Wants to buy bedroom furniture (I am sleeping on a king-sized air matress right now). She does not want to bring our bed (and after what has happened, I agree!).

Like I said above, she was exhausted from her day and week, so I did not press on talking. The only thing I pushed was that I had to have her give the NC letter or talk to OM immediately. And she was very receptive to the letter. I could tell by the way she talked and what she said, she does not want to talk to him. We will talk more this weekend and I will find out everything, but my impression is that once the fog lifted, not only did she see that she never should have been doing this, but also saw what kind of guy her really is, and what he has helped her do to herself and her life. And she is angry not only at herself, but him.

All I have to say is I am absolutely in awe of God. I had given up in December. I had moved on over the last 5 weeks. And in that time, my wife was taken to Florida, met his family, and counter filed for divorce on me. And then she came back from Florida, and everything changed. Just like the epiphany Kily talks about. Unlike past reconciliation attempts, she does not hold back from me. Over the last two weeks, she pursues me. She wont let me shut down, or get angry. When I want to end the conversation or throw my hands in the air, she has gone out of her way to re-engage me. She has said the right things, even without me asking or mentioning them. She has asked for nothing in return, except to hear her out.

I have come to believe that God works best when we get out of the way. Over all of this, I was in His way. When Plan B was started on December 17, finally a good Plan B, it only took one week for God to start the process, and one month to complete it. Sometimes we have to let go on trying to control a situation and let Him do it. We may be living testimony to this.

I am going to be cautious, but I am going to let her run with this. See where she takes us. She even talked about renewng our vows. But, for the first time in all of this, in my gut, I feel I am finally talking to my wife again.

I will update you more after this weekend, although I would love to hear your comments.

I am, and have been, In His Arms.

MM-

I want to be the first to say CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

I still may eat crow pie, but again - the paralells are way too similar to my experience in Vegas.....

Your story is helping me because I see that giving up is NOT the answer - Letting Go and trusting in faith is.

Slow and steady.....

(((((((MortarMan)))))))))

I am so very happy for you!!! Please remember to be careful, as Kily said, go slowly, be a little coy. It seems that that is the strategy that makes your WW actually respond.

MM,

This is very good news. I truely hope that all of this is what it seems. But, having met Kily and H_P here I suspect it is for real.

I thought I would answer your question of me. I am a scientist. Research is what I do for a living and what I live for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

She mentioned wanting to get this behind her. This is a very normal response from a WS because she has addressed it all, and finally come to a decision. But, she also knows everything, and you do not. You won't learn all you need to learn this weekend.

One of her requests was </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has said the right things, even without me asking or mentioning them. She has asked for nothing in return, except to hear her out. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MM, I think you need to ask the same thing from her. She doesn't understand all of the turmoil, pain, and uncertainty boiling within you. She needs to understand that she must talk to you and answer your questions. Not because you are trying to pin her, but because you need to catch up. She knows the story and you don't. She doesn't know what is within you, and your questions will tell her.

Tell her this, and make this request: She needs to hear you out as well.

You know from reading here that this isn't going to go away for quite awhile. The trust, and the marriage need to be rebuilt. It has been two years since you knew her, and that long since she knew you (if she ever really did). You know you have made a lot of changes. You will be much more understanding of somethings and a lot less of others. You know you can leave, and will if this isn't right. You know she can leave.

It behooves you to get this on the right plane. "Radical Honesty" is required and that means you CANNOT shut up and bury something that is bothering you, and what will bother you for quite awhile is what she was thinking and currently is thinking.

Lay out those ground rules, along with two others of Harley's. Tell her that while you will undoubtly have questions that may hurt both of you, you will do your best to protect her. You will do your best to POJA the major issues. YOU WILL DO YOUR BEST TO MAKE THE MARRIAGE BETTER, but that requires that you not develop resentment and get rid of that you do have. You will need her help.

You might want to review Harley's 4 rules of marriage as well. Nothing new, but as long as you are discussing ground rules, discuss these and see if they suit her. They should.

No LB's MM, but be focused and firm. There is no way you will get out or know everything you need to know in one weekend. She needs to know this, but she also needs to understand this is a process not a single step.

Those are my words of advice. I am sure others will have a lot more. One thing about this site, if you ask for advice, there is now shortage, is there? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

God Bless, and Good Luck,

JL

<small>[ January 30, 2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

MM-

Congratulations to you and your W and good luck! It never gets old for me to read of a family sticking it out and doing the right thing...

Man, I hope its real.