This sounds so familiar. My H told me that I would never change, that there was nothing that I did or didn't do that was a problem, it was just that he didn't like my "basic personality" - but he was very vague about what he didn't like. When I mentioned that it seemed like he had at one time appeared to like my personality, he said that I had hidden my true personality. (I guess I must have been pretty talented to hide it for a quarter of a century!)

They are just looking for excuses and justifications, and are projecting their anger at themselves on the easiest target. Unfortunately, from what I have seen and experienced, it often doesn't ever get better.

I am worried about the fact that your H stopped the direct deposit - I think it is of paramount importance that you get the lawyers involved now. If he is this sneaky now, when he is still at home, it will likely only get worse if he moves out.

I just can't get the point of him being sneaky. Its going to make matters worse if I'm not amicable. Is that more hostility, you think?

He's being sneaky either
1) because he thinks he will gain more by being sneaky, like a thief who believes they can steal more than they can earn legitimately

2) he doesn't want confrontation.

3) He was in the fog and confused and thinking about moving out without really thinking it through.

You didn't answer if he has put his paycheck back on direct deposit.

I liked your answer to him. Because it clearly stated a consequence to him.

If he puts his paycheck back on direct deposit that's good. If not, it's a bad sign, but don't turn it into a control issue.

If he doesn't do direct deposit- he might deposit his check each week manually. That's a sign of keeping his options open in case he wants to make a sudden break for it. As long as he regularly makes the deposit you might be able to tolerate it.

If he keeps the money himself he will have to open a bank account (in his name only) to deposit it into. That would be a very bad sign, even if he does give you money for bills. If that happens, I would consult a lawyer for information-without consulting your H or telling him that you are doing so. It could mean that he wants to be able to spend $$$ on OW without you knowing, or even siphon off marital assets.

He said that there was a mistake in the Direct Deposit this pay period and they had to send him his check. I think he's lying. I will ask him about whether or not he stopped the Direct Deposit. I really just THINK that's what he did. This is a continuation of the Saturday conversation when he had to face the financial reality of a separation.

I've spoken to a lawyer already. Because of our situation, he will have to pay me alimony, the mortgage and child support for our son. He knows that or rather knows how much I will need. There's no getting around it I don't think.

<small>[ January 17, 2003, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Update:

After the awful Thursday night, WS came straight to the gym to workout straight from work. In response to his need/request for DOMESTIC SUPPORT-a need that OW can't fulfill right now- I told him that dinner would be ready when he got home. He asked me what I was having and it was one of his favorites. He came straight home and ate. He did his typical avoidant pattern of then of going straight to bed, declaring his extreme fatigue .

I'm continuing to be upbeat with him last night and this morning despite our awful time the night before. I'm sure he has some confusion about this. He looks depressed. He's asking me to help him with some paperwork at his office; a project that I used to assist him on that he can't figure out how to do. This is good and bad because of his resentment of me being a KNOW IT ALL and having to depend on me, making him feel less than a MAN.

He stated that he is resuming the Direct Deposit of his paycheck but he did not seem too thrilled about this. His response indicated that he sees it as something that he needs to do and has to do but does not want to do.

Well it is Saturday. He's got to figure out a way to be with her. Now when he's AWOL he knows I know exactly what he's doing. I guess he realizes that in the past I might somehow buy his excuses. I can understand how this puts the WS in a dilemma. They have to face the reality of having to make a major decision--marriage vs. the OW. He has acknowledged, upon my questioning, that he can't have both. Steve thinks that he is a cake-eater so there lies the problem.

Any thoughts, suggestions, feedback would be much appreciated.

mimi - I think you're doing TERRIFIC!!

Help him at work, but keep the "know it all" risk in mind. Ask questions you know he knows the answer to and give admiration when you can.

If he's depressed or feeling down, this could be a sign of withdrawal from OW. This is optimistic, but a real possibility.

Just beware and keep your seatbelt fastened. This isn't called a roller coaster for nuthin'. Try not to react to every current in the river. Think long term. There WILL BE ups and downs. Don't dwell on them - it's like watching the stock market - NO DECISIONS on single events, OK?

WAT

He hates the idea of still having to depend on me, right? He said that the copier didn't work right at his office. I said he could use the one at my office and he said "let me think about it". It would be so convenient for him to use my copier rather than to look around for another one. I'm trying to think of some admiration strategy to use regarding the office work. Will keep you posted.

OK so it's back on direct deposit. That's good. Yes, he may not be happy about it. That's to be expected. The terminating contact/withdrawal phase can last for quite a while. Give it a couple of months. Believe me, OW will get sick of this too.

With some of the excuses it's better not to confront- if the WS is going in the right direction. Better not to get into a "you stopped the direct deposit!- because of the A" mode. Because that will lead to a fight. Instead you go about it indirectly. More like "next week, I have to pay the bills, can I assume that your company straightened out the direct deposit?"

Regarding helping with the bills- you can say- "I know sometimes it's bothered you in the past when I do these things for you. I don't want you to feel I'm pushy but I'm happy to help if you need it". Believe me- it's part of the fog. If he went with OW, eventually he'd get angry with her for NOT doing the things you do for him. Anyway- do help him with the bills. If he gets angry or irritable, back off without lashing back.

During my H's A, he said to me that he needed to see me as "less managerial, less administrative". When the fog cleared he admitted that he counts on me to do those things and he appreciates that I do them.

Regarding the weekend- you can't tie him to your side. There will be spasms of him getting together with OW, but it won't be much fun because the fantasy is ending. (That's partly why he's in such a bad mood). Prior to Dday, he could sneak off to see OW, and revel in a fantasy of "perfect love" without dealing with the realities (alimony, child support, pressures from OW etc) There was the excitement of "secret love" and "perfection"- no fights, getting on each other's nerves etc. He could tell himself "Mimi doesn't really care, our marriage is dead anyway, she doesn't love me. When the time is right, I'll break the news to her, and we'll part amicably, as friends." In his mind he imagines leaving, keeping you as an old, dear friend, while he pursues a hot, burning romance with OW. And he's justified it in his mind because after all, our marriage is dead, Mimi won't care, Mimi has hurt me in the past etc.

So reality hits. He now knows he has alot to lose financially in terms of comfort. He knows that you do love him, you will be very hurt if not devastated, and you and sons will not be his friend. OW will now pressure him to leave, and that will make him feel anxious. He'll start to see that life with her will involve demands, LBs, anger, disagreements as in any marriage- it won't be perfect love. When he sneaks off to see her he's fully aware that he is lying, cheating and hurting you. that will not make seeing her so fun!

Re the weekend. In my opinion, don't confront him about his sneaking off. Act normal, do some stuff on your own, let him fabricate his excuses. Acting sweet, trusting and loving. That deepens his guilt when he does sneak off. Believe me, he won't be reveling in deceiving you.
For example:
Him: (excuse) Honey, I'm going to run to the grocery store to pick up some beer- we're out.
(he's really going to call OW)
You: Oh how sweet of you, that's really thoughtful. While you're there could you grab me some eggs? I wanted to bake everyone some brownies.

You can toy with him- let him know you're going out- then plan something to do with him later on- preferably something he can't get out of (like having your in laws over). So he can rush over to see OW- and then have to rush back to do whatever it is.

Also, remember what I said about planning some fun dates/activities to do with him. Is there anything you could do that he might enjoy on the weekend? What could you plan?

Next, when he comes home tired and depressed and goes to bed early- try going in, and giving him a nice back rub (if that is something he would like). Don't talk too much, just do it. Don't initiate SF either (though he might). I read that when stressed out 43% of men would pick a back rub (even over sex) as a stress reliever.

Don't push for the questionnaires- the most important thing is that your WH is talking to Steve- and he can push for the questionnaires.

How is it going with your sons in the home? Are they still a source of stress?

Espoir:

I found your post to be so HELPFUL. Thanks so much. I think you are right on target regarding the A losing the excitement because of D-Day. I think it's freaked my H out that I was not angered by his ranting on Thursday and that I gladly helped him with his business stuff this morning.

I'm pretty sure he's gotten together with her AS WE SIT and may not even come home tonight. It was something in his voice during our last phone conversation. He actually sounded GUILTY. I said "I'll see you later" without asking any questions. He did not come up with any excuse about where he will be or any explanation of when he would be coming home. He just said OK in a weird way. Like you said, he now knows that I will know exactly what he is doing.

I'm not sure if he will actually talk to Steve anytime soon. He still has the MB stuff on the dresser but he has not turned another page of it.

I will continue to work on my PLAN and to be the best person that I can be although it is really hard to deal with this weekend stuff.

My WS has especially resisted any of my attempts to get him to do stuff with me such as movies,etc. He will go to family-oriented events with me like a funeral,wedding or office party. It seems that he really has to psych himself up to go to these and goes about it like he's doing me a big favor to present the "happy family" image. However, when I ask him about doing anything else FUN he insists "You didn't go with me in the past so why now?" I have interpreted it as if he's afraid that she will find out. He seems concerned about being unfaithful to her. I don't know what she possibly could have threatened. He's loyal to her like he used to be so loyal to me. That's why I am shocked at the notion of him having an A.

Along the same lines above, he has remarked that he thinks that "my Plan A behaviors" (my words, not his) are part of a "show" that I'm putting on because "it's the end". Too little, too late? I'm sure it's confusing to him.

Stay posted if you can over the weekend. I count on you guys for support. THANKS!

ABOUT THE CHILDREN:
I worry about my 16 year old son. He's so confused about needing to respect a father who is acting so disrespectful. Also, my WS is taking out his anger on him so that he blows out of proportion anything that that my son does wrong. My son has been tearful with me about how much it hurts him that his father is continually bad-mouthing him. My WS says he doesn't care how much it hurts him. I wonder about the emotional abuse. I plan to talk with Steve about this.

For example, my son made 1000 the first time he took the SAT this year as a jr. in high school. My WS is especially critical of this, saying he did not prepare enough and a boy as smart as he is should have made 1200. That's been a repeated rant of his lately. Overall, he's being unreasonable with my S. He knows that's a big issue for me so part of the aim is to provoke me. Also, the climate leading him into the A actually was my focus on the children and inattentiveness to him so he is especially angry at them. You see, WE got him into this MESS. I think that's where he is now. He sees himself as being in a ball of confusion that he cannot resolve. It's funny. I've usually helped him get out of his messes. He does not know what to do to clean this up neatly. Someone will have to get hurt and everyone won't be clapping for him.

My 20 year old is at college and is basically staying out of the picture right now. My WS continues,however, to rant about the bad things that he has done in the past although that's not an issue for us RIGHT NOW.

Mimi,

When my H complained about me 'demanding control' and that he thought I knew it all, I was deeply hurt. The one thing is that I don't want control, I just want all of us to do it right as best we can. Work together and talk things out. I finally faced the WS and said, working together and talking things out is your idea of control, then right I am a control freak! He admitted that he felt some what inferior at times because I could get stuff done faster.

So what to do?? I well I learned to let go. Requiring less meant allowing the WS turning into an H to make a few more mistakes and not be the one to catch all and fix all.

For example the issue about the copier. I would have done like you did and offer a solution. You know that my H really wanted? He told me just to hear his issues but not give suggestions. So that is what I have learned to do. Hear him, then later (allow him time to figure out his delimea) then later ask him if he 'wants to hear my idea'.

That seemed to work for us. Puts me in a panic mode sometimes but I just gotta let some of it slide. Am I a perfectionist? To a certain degree yes but I am learning to be more humane in my approach. re: The world will not end if the copier is broken. On the other hand, I now have the buy in from my H that when it is serious, I expect him and I to 'Hup to it'. LOL!!!

L.

OK Guys,
What do you think is going on?

WS is home on a Saturday night for the first time in months!

He comes in and very nicely says, "Please don't have an attitude with me, I'm trying to deal with all this crazy stuff. It's hard".

My answer: "I wouldn't have an attitude with you. I know how hard this is for you."

I don't know where this "attitude" business is coming from. He is the one with an "attitude".I haven't had "an attitude" with him at all since my Plan A. Today I cleaned out the garage and got rid of all clutter in the bedroom, working on DOMESTIC SUPPORT which he likes about staying here. I asked him if he noticed. He simply said YES.

We've had sort of polite chit-chat, nothing heavy. Then he does his avoidant- going to bed routine. He's asleep now. He seems sad.

Is there trouble in PARADISE or is he simply trying to continue the cake-walk or both? I'm thinking the OW wanted a commitment with the bells and whistles of a pretty new condo. She must not know how much of a penny-pincher my WS is. He must have been wining and dining her. He did meet her while she was the receptionist at our accountant's. Maybe her gold-digger qualities are showing. Of course, I hope so. I'm sure my WS wasn't planning on settling down with her in another marriage. He wanted to continue to play. He's had a standard marriage for 26 years.

What do you think? I'm pulling my seatbelt on tight. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?

hehe, sounds like there is trouble in paradise and you have failed to give him a diversion from his guilt, Mimi. He is probably bummed that you didn't give him any "attitude."

I am very concerned about your 16 year old son and the fact that your H is bullying him. Please address this with him the best way you can, causing the least amount of problems possible. That has to stop. Your son has to be protected from him at all costs, especially if he is bullying the boy. Will you please address this issue with him? He can't be sacrificed on the alter of Plan A. Will you also bring this up with Steve Harley?

Thanks Melody:

My son is a major concern of mine right now. I plan to bring it up with Steve Harley on Monday.

What do you think is going on with my WS and the OW? Was she wanting a commitment,wanting him to move? If they were together today, why was it so important for him to call me to say when he would be home? He never would do that prior to D-Day. That was one of my pet peeves. I would say "at least you could call if you are going to be late". Also,he definitely expressed to me a plan to stay here. Of course I still can't be sure that he can be trusted. I went by his planned condo and someone else has rented it.

yippee! Good news on the condo! Who knows what is going on between he and the OW? It just doesn't sound like its good, which is good for you. Hopefully, she is lovebusting him, which will hasten the end of the affair.

How did it go last night?

Weird!

He seems like his old self this morning. Upbeat! Lots of conversation! He's on the phone now talking to his best friend whom he had been avoiding. This is the friend who I called when I found him at the hotel. They are just talking chit-chat. Seems like he is letting his friend know that he is still at home. He had told the friend that he was leaving in their last conversation. We'll see what happens the rest of the day.

Further report on last night. He was withdrawn, seemed depressed, no initiation of affection or intimacy by him. Now, the total switcheroo this morning. What a rollercoaster ride!

I will post more later but I know that one thing these WSs fear is that the changes you are demonstrating are not permanent. They fear that they will stay and it will all turn back to being the same as it was before. So it takes a little time of a consistent Plan A- they need to get comfortable.

Also, he may feel guilt and be trying to let the OW down easy. Ok this is never the answer it has to be done cold turkey. There's also the breaking the addiction element.

When he's down and depressed, would he let you give him a back rub?

Espoir:

I think my WS would be suspicious about the backrub. I've never given him one and he's extremely ticklish! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />