As every day goes by I am getting stronger as we all do, except for the occassional ponderings. Well today I came to the realization that I never got anything from WS as far as:
1) Neesha I don't love you
2) I do not want us to rebuild
3) I was finished with our relationship, blah blah
4) What were our troubles to lead him to "A"

The only thing I heard after catching them as you know by my story is he said he loved her and she and him wanted to have a child, but she was married.

So my question is this:(everyone knows he moved out and we have NC, except when I had to email for credit card bill and he did not respond, so sister mailed it to him) How long does it take for them to really have closure? DO they have closure or is it just assumed that the BS knows it's over and it shouldn't matter what ended the relationship? I know it sounds like such a juvenile question but as an adult I have no understanding as to how someone can just assume that the way it is ....is fine.

I know there are issues he is dealing with because of all the anger he is throwing my way as I have posted, not directly at me but through family memebers that read between the lines as he is focusing all this disruption about "A" on me. In which I feel that if things are not rosey with them it would be because she is married? Just a thought..DUH!!! So, I know he is going through rough emotional, mental, highs and lows. Do not know if they still see each other. But does anyone think I will ever get a "adult" conversation for closure from him?

Just need thoughts and reality check...

<small>[ January 22, 2003, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Neesha ]</small>

Neesha, your question may not have a meaningful answer.

If you're asking how long it takes for the WSs to have closure, assuming you're NOT asking about "recovered" WSs, I'd postulate they can't have closure until they have an "opening," i.e., an awakening, a revelation, a realization, whatever. For example, I think my XW had closure from the moment she decided to leave. Everything was just hunky dory. No worries - at least this was her facade. Her continued state of denial allows her to remained "closed" to this day.

WAT,
Thanks for the reply,so she did not ever once after she walked out the door initiate a conversation with you about anything?? WOW, that is definitely not a behavior I would ever want to bestow upon another person. I seem to be having a time with that, and as I know I can not project how I would deal with something, I can not expect WS to do anything other than he has displayed.

But I am having one of those days that I need support to understand some things, even though there is not a explaination. I need "cyber chocolate comfort food". <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Neesha,

In my last marriage, my H came home day after 20 years of marriage and told me he didn't want to be married anymore becasue we had nothing in common. I threw him out the next day and found out much later that he was having an affair. He has NEVER talked to me about our marriage since that day he told me he was leaving. It was 'here today, gone tomorrow.

For a long time, I wanted to know why, but deep down I KNEW the reasons why. I treated the man like dirt for years and never filled an emotional need. I learned here what I did to him. That might not be the case with you, but the information that I got here did give me closure, I didn't need to talk to him to get that.

<small>[ January 22, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Neesha:
<strong>WAT,
Thanks for the reply,so she did not ever once after she walked out the door initiate a conversation with you about anything??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course she initiated conversation about things - things associated with our son and the divorce proceedings, etc. There have been LOTS of communications from her with bizarre meanings and alien influenced logic that you would not believe. Just today, well, nevermind. But there was next to nothing regarding why she left, other than I was "abusing" her. I will not legitimize that accusation with an attempt to rebut it.

WAT

Melody,
Thank you for replying, again, I have learned and grown so much from being here, and I understand that some people never feel the need to converse with the person they left, I understand that, don't accept it as something I would do. But as I didn't have an "A",I do accept it was done. I also know we all have problems in our relationships and there is always that possibilty that a "A" will be the exiting, or turning point in the M. I knew we had problems but I also knew it would take 2 to make it a strong foundation. I am just having one of those days Melody that we all have, since d-day on Oct.28, I have not had time to have many because so many other things needed to be done. Now, I'm taking a day to purge the things that I need to do to keep on the path of healing. I knew there was not an answer to this, just wanted to see how others dealt with a situation like that.

I have read so many WS's saying to their BS, so much of the script, but as I got the way out there scripting, I never had anything addressed me directly, it was like I became a moot point. Not once has he ever said he didn't love me. But since the outing of the "A", he has also been consumed with her and all that entails.

Neesha, I'm not completely up to speed on your situation; so forgive me if I ask something already answered.

Have you and your H filled out the EN & LB Questionnaires posted on this website? Reason I ask is that I'm not sure that it sounds like you have a plan to work on your marriage.

Filling out the questionnaires; then sharing them with each other brings a wealth of information that you can share with each other. I learned alot about myself just filling out the information; then also when we shared our answers with each other.

Hope this helps! CSue

CSue,
Oh yes we did the questionares, and spoke about them, did the love busters...then a week later I caught him with the MOW.

We had to ask him to leave because of emotional abuse that he was maliciously inflicting upon the household. So I am in NC, I sent a modified plan a/b letter. He is so angry and feeling he is the victim that he centers all anger on me. He is also involved with someone that is married and it's quite a bad situation as I have posted before, so again, he has himself in not a very stable situation, and his family do not support what he has done so he has alienated himself (self-imposed).

Hope that clears up some things.

Neesha, does OW's H know?

What exactly did you do re: "modified Plan A/B"?

Have you fixed your Plan A discoveries and demonstrated them?

WAT

WAT,
Yes OWH knows, guess that is why WS has intense anger at me, but I was not the one that told him. My planA/B letter was stating how I would like to rebuild our relationship, but not while he was still involved with MW, that in him leaving it was for my emotional wellbeing. It was a positive letter about the man I fell in love with and that is the man I choose to know and if and when he feels that he would like to work on having a stronger, healthy, relationship that I will be there for him to reach out to and to listen to him should he want to talk about what was not met in our relationship that would make him go in the direction that he did. I think I have the exact letter, but if you ever read any of my posts, you will see it is an unusual situation. I don't know if this answers any of your questions.

When I caught them WAT, he did not let me do anything as far as trying to reach him and to work on us, he was wayyyy somewhere else mentally, it was as if he had a complete 180 of the person I ever knew, this went against everything he believed in and so he just was looking through me at that point, then became totally obsessed with her and her wanting to have his child, and it just got very very bad here. His sister was and is living here in the home, and she was the one who had to ask him to leave because he was being so bizarre in his behavior. I tried plan Aing, but it was on deaf ears and heart, he was not coherent, was not able to cope with anything around him. He just focused on her. So in order to preserve anything, he was asked to leave and I saw him once after X-Mas, he stopped by,looked like hell, and teared up because he even dumped his beloved pet on me. I knew the holidays were bad for him, because he thought that she was going to leave her husband, (she is from another country married to an american), get divorced and go to Las Vegas to get married. They might still be doing that, I don't know. But he appears to be doing mentally very bad and blaming me for treachery and causing him suffering... I have NC with him. So that is where he is. He noticed how good I looked when he stopped by because it has been good not having him here displaying the behaviors he did, and let me tell you he pulled some malicious, hurtful things while he was here and after D-day. He was asked to leave Dec1. But he had planned that already, his sister just made it faster and not at his convenience, I was not working as I was taking care of the home and health, which we both POJA'd on from the beginning. He dropped all financial burdens on me and sister, and had not paid for anything after D-day, and was living here acting like a high school teenager with their first crush.

I guess maybe you missed when I started posting here, but I was sure you posted to me WAT, hope I did answer some of your questions. I hate boring people with repeating things.

The closure you're looking for from your H right now, is not something that he is willing to offer you. What you need to do, is to find a way to refocus those energies on YOU, and away from your H. A day or two, here and there, is perfectly reasonable to be down and out. But if it lasts too long, be sure to get in touch with your doctor and be checked for depression.

If you claim that you don't understand why the M went sour, then how were you able to do your plan A? I'm confused. I'll admit... this is the first time I've read your story (to my recollection), and I don't see how your situation is so unique that the MB concepts don't work. Maybe my interpretation of your initial post is wrong?

As far as "will you ever get an adult conversation from your H" regarding closure... you already know the answer to that one. As long as he continues to be in the fog, there's no way it'll happen. You should assume that you will NEVER hear it from him, and move on in your plan A (for yourself). That way, should he ever actually come up with some information for you, then it will be a pleasant surprise, as opposed to not enough information.

Karen

Hi Neesha:
I am so sorry to hear about your rotten day. You know that I am new with this but I thought I would try to give you some comforting thoughts. On the positive side, you do not have to hear the negative things your WS has to say. My WS is talking to me about all of his complaints. I have been amazed at the degree of his dissatisfaction. There's a lot that he has told me that I really don't need to hear. Why? Because I can't do anything about those past mistakes. I can only improve myself in the present. If he does not give you the opportunity to make things better, it's his loss. I know that this thought does not take away the pain but it is one way to look at the situation.

Another thought is : you probably already know what he would say. Its so clear to me how I've been in denial about the state of my marriage. If I had gotten out of my fairy-tale fog, I would have realized. It all boiled down to the fact that I stopped working on my marriage and stopped giving it high priority in my life.

Hope tomorrow is better. I know it will be.

Topie,
Yes, I was having one of those days today, and used this forum to ramble, as we all do from time to time. Topie not my situation about the affair is unique, I did not mean that at all. It really does not matter, as I said was just purging a bad and used the board.

Mimi, Thank you from the bottom of my heart, because I just wanted some "cyber comfort" today, and I appreciate it so much.

I thank you all for replying, just needed to babble.

Topie: "If you claim that you don't understand why the M went sour, then how were you able to do your plan A"

I think you are mistaken I know why things went the way they did, like I said I was just having a bad day and did not want to repeat everything I posted, so if I strayed anyone or made anyone confused it was not my intention at all. You are so right about knowing the "adult conversation", I knew the answer, but on a bad day, you just sometimes don't want to know anything, so you just let the emotions work with you so they can run its course.

I am so sorry to hear about your rotten day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
They kind of sneak up on you and it feels like a 2x4 right between the eyes. I think it sucks he has given you no conversation. he is deep in the heart of fog induced fantasyland.
It sounds like you have a great attitude even with all the unanswered questions. Sometimes it is better. I know you don't want to hear that but it sounds like any conversations with him right now he would be playing the blame game.
Some men ( I emphasize SOME men) really go through a phase where they need their ego's stroked. Sounds like OW is good at that. But you know, fantasyland can't last forever, Realityland shows them the grass isn't greener. I feel sometimes the ego they like having stroked also creates pride, pride makes it hard for them to come home. Just be a loving, awesome spouse and take this time to set your boundaries and ask yourself what the pro's and con's are if he comes home or if he doesn't come home. I hope you get your answers. I wish somebody would hurry up and invent that fog zapper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Hugs and comfort yo you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Layli

Hi Neesha - I know you already know this, but you know that you are unlikely to get closure. This is something that I've come to accept (not without a lot of struggle in the last few months). Venting helps, but not focusing on it helps more.

What you really want is support right now to help you get through this low point you're experiencing. I'm not a big hugger (cyber or otherwise), but I will send my thoughts to lift you up.

I think it's natural to question why (I know I did), but after some time you stop. There is no good reason and I think even those recovering their M don't have the kind of closure we all sought at one point. You just get to a different place where it becomes less of a burning issue. Would I still love to have the answers? Probably, but it doesn't plague me like it once did. I wish I could make this go faster for you and help you get past this point, but truly I think going through it is what helps.

When you have these days it's especially important to NOT focus on this stuff by doing something else. I remember one evening when I felt like you are now I went for a hard run and then I ate a hot fudge sundae for dinner. I don't know what the trick is for you, but here are the things I did when I was driving myself nuts with questions: a) exercise, b) clean like crazy, c) eat weird stuff that your mother always told you you shouldn't eat for dinner, d) call a friend, or e) light candles by the bath and drink wine in the tub.

Eat some chocolate.

Ahhh Layli,
That's what I needed, you are a gem, yes I do have a positive outlook, just today, the positive part got up and went somewhere else...lol. Yes the fog, now if we could invent something ...not one of us here would have to worry about finances again!!! Thank you, it was a tough day, but it will be better tomorrow, I'm sure of it.

There were so many things and nothing going on in my head today, so of course ....I was just thinking ,,"fog" does not sound so bad to me, then again.... I would not wish that on my enemy let alone myself..so I had alot to work through.

Again, thank you,

Topie,
You were in a really bad situation when I joined MB, that was the time right before the shelter and all the harships you were enduring so that is why you didn't get to my posts. I am so happy that things have worked out and that you are in a much better place. I did follow your story and posted. I did not start posting until sometime in November.

Unsure,
Yes, you know as I told Layli, it was many things and nothing... never had a thing about birthdays, and mine is Friday..sheesh. I have to focus on other things, because my health will regress, and I can not afford that on any level. This displaced Florida girl that is in Green Bay (freaking) Wisconsin, and it's the coldest winter I have ever experienced since I moved her going on 4 years.....one of the worst place for someone who has broken their neck and back to even be...
And now we are under severe freezing cold conditions and my whole body let's me know..It was ONE of those kinda days!!!! Where your teeth are chattering and you look in the mirror and think to yourself..."WHAT WAS I THINKING!!!

Just one of those kinda days Unsure...you know? You have to have a few of those days here and there, to be appreciative of all the good ones in between...my philosophy. Thanks for lifting.

So you're in Wisconsin eh? i have a funny joke. I went there this year, Milwaukee and I came up with a new state motto.
"Wisconsin....it smells funny."
Hope it makes you laugh.
Hugs,
Layli
PS How did you break your neck? I know I'm snoopy.

Layli,
1989 passenger in a car, my mate was driving and we wrecked, it killed him, I was clinically dead for 20 minutes and my neck and back was broken in 5 places, took me a year to walk again, and to mend. Not to mention the greiving over someone that I loved very much. It was right before Thanksgiving.

Yes, I live across the river of a paper factory, mmmmm smell the rotten eggs? lol

What a horrible thing to go through. Sounds like you were very lucky. It also sounds like you have great tenacity and a strong will to survive what life throws at you. that is very admirable.
I also think it is good sometimes to have those freak out days. Gets it out of our system and then we can focus on what needs to be done.
Always here for ya, keep your chin up and your nose plugged. LOL
Hugs
Layli