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Hope,
It's about time for an update on how you are doing. I trust that you are doing well and everthing, it's just that I am interrested and I know that lots of others are too.

So, how's it going really?
Tell us what you have been reading, and how H is doing. How Christmas went, any triggers, etc. etc. etc.

When we last left our hero, she was...........
You know, we want to know !!

SS

PS, Be careful, sometimes customers come in and expect to be helped, you really should look up from time to time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ February 04, 2003, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

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So, second honeymoon??
Hard drive fluid need a refill?

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LOL!

You know I was just thinking about you the other day. Was going to ask you a question. It's just been SUPER DUPER busy. H and I are doing fine, but really not working on the relationship part of our life right now. I know I know...it's something that requires attention all the time! But work has just taken over and I'm just trying to keep my head above water right now. I'm taking a business class (it's called next level) that helps me understand the business side of things and develop a working business plan. It's FASCINATING and I'm grasping it rather well so far. But the homework and research load is astronomonal and mixed with every other thing going on it just doesn't give me time to even breath.

I've put the relationship books aside for a bit while I get this part of my life in order. I did read Torn Asunder, Love Busters and SAA over the holidays.

Hubby is doing overtime in the household department. I don't remember the last time I did laundry. I hope that completing this class will help me to get things back in balance so I can feel like a useful member of this household again!! We've got plans for Valentines day too, that come hell or high water we're gonna KEEP!! We need the time together! He has done much better with notes and thinking of things for me. I got the cutest thing for New Years. The heck of it is, I picked it out and didn't even realize it! SNEAKY SNEAKY! And even though we haven't had much time for dates, we've tried to work in time together wherever we can make it fit. 30 minutes together after the kid finally goes to bed, or H goes with me to work once in a while. Gives us time together, even though it isn't as focused or quality as we'd like.

My question...more of a ponderance really...was based on our talks before. You said you didn't really "get" what your wife needed or how important those things were to her until later on in your marriage. Do you think that the light bulb going off had partially to do with your age or the time in your life?? The reason I ask is because I can't even imagine us finding the energy or time to focus on our marriage like we'd like to until we have all our children and they're atleast school age. Heck, even then there'll be events and someone will be sick or need to go here or there. Plus both of us are self employed with businesses that make immediate and unwavering demands of us at times. 20 years from now, or possibly even 15...that won't be the case.

Something a friend talked about the other day too. She said that men reach their "nesting" period in their 50's, and by then most women reach the point where they don't give a hoot anymore, they're tired of taking care of the home and everybody in it, and that's when they head for adventure and excitement and leave the men behind. I don't know how much truth that has to it, but it was an interesting idea.

Anyway, thanks for checking in on me! I hope to "graduate" with flying colors and a perfected business plan that will help me to restructure my life to allow for growth in the business while still getting some time in for H and I to start working on us again!

Oh and HIIIII Pepper!!! Primal Wound is the next book on my list to read...but I'm not picking up ANYTHING until this class is completed. (Mid April)

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It's just been SUPER DUPER busy. H and I are doing fine, but really not working on the relationship part of our life right now.
Super Duper busy........ that reminds me of a trip to the Doc about 10 years ago. He said I HAD to reduce the stress in my life and I said " so, you want me to divorce my W, or commit suicide?" After he looked at me for a minute or two, he said" well, try to do it somehow."
As for not working on it, if you are doing well, then I am happy for you. I know that some times are more difficult than others, but we need to talk.

I know I know...it's something that requires attention all the time! But work has just taken over and I'm just trying to keep my head above water right now.
And how are you doing with the 15 hours a week, and since I already know the answer, business is a poor excuse. Are you at least dating weekly? Biweekly?
Tell the truth, we won't beat you up too badly. Also, when is the next overnighter planned for? You do have the dates on the calendar don't you? ( OK, I see its probably valentines, good job.)
I see where you say later on down that you get in 30 minutes here or there and sometimes he goes to work with you to spend some time. What I really want to know is how much time weekly, and how far apart are "real" dates.

I'm taking a business class (it's called next level) that helps me understand the business side of things and develop a working business plan. It's FASCINATING and I'm grasping it rather well so far. But the homework and research load is astronomical and mixed with every other thing going on it just doesn't give me time to even breath. I've put the relationship books aside for a bit while I get this part of my life in order.
That's fine, we don't need to be reading HNHN every week, but I am glad you already know what the next book will be for you, that's important.

I read Torn Asunder, Love Busters and SAA over the holidays.
One of the reasons I asked about you is that I wanted to know what you got from LB. Actually I was reading in it again last night, and I came across a part that applies to you right now. I can't quote it exactly, but it was something to the effect that our business should serve the needs of our family, and if it doesn't, or if it makes demands that take away from our family goals, then we see if we need to give it up. One of the problems with saying " no time now, will be better after I finish my class," is that it never really gets better. I can vouch for this part personally. When that class is over, you will need to put the plan into effect in business. And it will be SPRING for hubby. Then fall, then harvest time etc. You already know what I am saying.

H is doing overtime in the household department. I don't remember the last time I did laundry. I hope that completing this class will help me to get things back in balance so I can feel like a useful member of this household again!!
I suppose I already covered that part. I am glad he helps like he is doing. How does he feel about things? And is he being honest about it? How do you know?

We've got plans for Valentines day too, that come hell or high water we're gonna KEEP!! We need the time together! He has done much better with notes and thinking of things for me. [b] Good. Both are good. When you say " he has done much better," is it good enough? Are you happy about the way things are right now?

[b] My question...more of a ponderance really...was based on our talks before. You said you didn't really "get" what your wife needed or how important those things were to her until later on in your marriage. Do you think that the light bulb going off had partially to do with your age or the time in your life??

Gee whiz. There is much more to this than perhaps you ( and not just you, read on) realize. I have thought about doing a thread about this one, but as I thought about it, there are so many factors that affect it that I couldn't begin to analyze and talk about each one. ( I'm not as smart as DR Harley. ) I kind of put it out of my mind for a while. Let me talk about a few of them.
Indeed we do focus on different things as we get older and our lives change. Many of us are in school when we marry, and that is a big one for a few years. Trying to work part time, and study, and go to classes, get good grades. At least we have more energy ( I did anyway) at that point in our lives. Then it's the job, and moving up, getting raises to afford the kids and the house and all that kind of stuff. Most people I know ( and believe me, I look around more now) don't pay much attention to their marriages from day to day or week to week. How many of your friends read R books, and discuss it with their spouse from time to time? As I look around, and also as I read here, it often takes a great shock ( such as an A) before the light bulb goes on in our head and we do something.
I had taken a "family relations" class in our church for a few years. In fact, I was kind of in charge of making sure the class was staffed and I helped choose who would go to it. I attended it over and over to see if it was helping the couples that attended. It was about that time that my W canceled a three day trip with me ( pure fun, no business) to help with a cub scout activity, and that light went on for me. Why don't we/ can't we talk more about stuff like this, if we are supposed to be in love. It's because we get involved in every day life and it takes our attention and we drift apart so slowly that we don't notice it. By the time we do, it often takes a big adjustment to fix things. Had I not attended that class, Perhaps I would not have know that something was wrong, and looked for a cure. Or I would have sensed something amiss, but not been able to put my finger on just what it was. In a nutshell, we focus too much on things that are not as important, and not enough on things that are. We do this simply because we focus on the "squeaky wheel." Our jobs, our children, and other things squeak more than our marriage.

For me personally, I was on the same treadmill. I was very immature when I married ( 21) but my W and I dated others, but we saved our selves for marriage and so we were happy because we didn't know any better. I made most of the same mistakes as many on MB. Worked too hard, away from home to much, ignored her needs, LB'd when things didn't go my way. She got distant, I didn't know why, so I LB'd more thinking that If I pointed things out to her strongly enough, she would change. I can't begin to cover all the factors, as I said before, but that is much of it.

If I had taken that class sooner, could I have fixed things sooner? I don't know. I see that all age groups come to MB, and many that are younger than I am get it pretty quickly after finding out about an A. I also notice that some who come here and read the same info don't seem to understand - even after all we can say to them. Did I need some type of trigger, would I have got it someday anyway? I don't know. Maturity level, and motivation are probably the most important factors. Motivation being the single most important.

The reason I ask is because I can't even imagine us finding the energy or time to focus on our marriage like we'd like to until we have all our children and they're at least school age. Heck, even then there'll be events and someone will be sick or need to go here or there. Plus both of us are self employed with businesses that make immediate and unwavering demands of us at times.
There is another factor that influenced me. About 10 years ago our family went on a camping trip with another family that we had just moved in next to. The H had a older father that had recently lost his wife to cancer, and that father came also. As we sat around the fire, one by one everyone drifted off to go to bed, and it was just my W, and I, and the father left. He asked me if I would take some advice, and I said yes, go ahead.
He said something like this, "You are in what you think is a hard time of your life. You struggle in business, you have small children ( 8) and you never have enough time or money. You may not believe this, but you are in the best time of your life. Many of your best memories will come from the next ten to 15 years. My advice to you is that you don't loose sight of why you wanted to marry and have a family. They are your joy, and you should give them your best time. Don't ever think that something else is more important. Plan trips with them often ( like this one) and never let them down. Take care of your wife, and love her, she may not always be here. Don't let your life get away from you. I don't know if you will understand what I am trying to tell you, most don't. I will tell you again, put the most important things first, and you will never regret it. "

Then he went off to bed, and we sat there and held hands by the fire.

I want you to understand, I wasn't considering divorce when I came here. I just knew things should be better, and I wanted to make them so. HNHN, and Love Busters helped me to do that. He was right, you can't wait. You do the most important things now, and you sometimes have to park the tractor or put down the business books and go out even when you can't. I expressed concern about something to do with our business this last summer and my W said " I would rather give the key to the bank, and walk away, than go back to how we were before."

So, you get to try and balance your life, and get all the stuff in that you have to do. I can tell you that you can't possibly get it all in. You have to choose what is the most rewarding, and the most important and put that in your planner first. I am in retail, and I hate to let a customer down. I have learned that it is more important to let my customers down than let my W down. That's not to say I don't have bad days, but I am getting it right more and more often. I know that you believe in God. If you are willing to put first things first, is God able to give you more energy, more intelligence, more drive, and more of whatever you need so that you can still succeed? I believe he can, and will. He may not give us everything we want, but he will take care of our needs, and even some of our wants, if we put first things first.

20 years from now, or possibly even 15...........
I suppose I have already talked about that enough???
I say NOW. I speak from experience. Please don't wait even one month. The reason is that growing apart. It happens so slowly that one day we just wake up and realize it. Please don't let it happen to you. Someone has to be the driving force. In my M it is me. My W helps often, and sometimes even takes the lead for a short time, but I believe it will be me over the long haul. So be it, that's better than what we had.

I hope your business plan works. But even more, I hope your marriage plan keeps working.

I have known couples that retired and couldn't stand to spend time with each other. If you follow DR Harleys recommendations, that won' happen. My W and I can't wait until our next trip together. ( 26th anniversary this march, 5 days. ) We love our children, but we can't wait until our next date. ( Friday night, her turn.) I have tried it lots of ways, doing it now, as first priority is best.

Where you are in life does determine what you can do, and how often you can do some things.
We go out for dinner now for about half our dates. 10 years ago, we couldn't afford it. We walked down the road holding hands and talking. We drove out to the edge of some cliffs and watched the sunset. We went to the library and sat next to each other and read magazine articles and talked to each other about them. We only had them every two or three weeks, not weekly. If I knew then what I knew now, I would have done it weekly. We could have traded friends for baby sitting, and gone out more. ( you watch mine tonight, and I'll watch yours tomorrow night.)

What will happen if you wait until April when the class is done is that business will have become even more important, and you will find it is even more difficult to get back on track.

Well, I don't know if that is what you wanted from this. It's not what I started out to write. There are many more factors that determine when and If a person will begin to work on the Marriage, we only just touched on a few of them.

Hope, one of your problems is that you can't be average at anything. You have to be best at whatever you do. It's not so much that you think business is more important than your family, it's just that you can't do a mediocre job at any thing and happy about it. If you plan ahead for your Marriage and your Family, and get it on the schedule, you will be able to work all this other stuff out. You already know the real deal, but you need to be reminded, like all of us.

Please don't hate me, I'm just trying to help.
If you don't have time, skip the answers here, but don't skip the date this week.

SS

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

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Hate you??!!! WHAAAA????

I think it's VERY sound advice. I want you to know that after I lost my father at age 50 and my grandfather in his late 60's I came to realize that retirement is not something to count on. I told my hubby that no more excuses for not taking breaks atleast a couple of times a year (I'm not sure if we've EVER had a REAL vacation) because counting on having that time when you're retired may be a mistake.

I also want to stress that this particular phase of our lives....mostly my job....is TEMPORARY. It's a fabulous opportunity that I've fought with whether or not I wanted to take. I understand VERY WELL about balance and I also know that our lives are NOT right now. But here's the deal. When the competition came in to town it was poop or get off the pot. Either I was going to let them come in and take over after all my years of hard work and dedication to the community...or I was going to get off my butt and put the work forth to get this business where I've had dreams it could be. The thing is I know NOTHING about business except how to do good hard honest, fairly priced, work. So needless to say I'm booming with business, but in over my head because of lack of experience. THAT's why I'm taking the class on top of barely staying on top of work. I'm putting together a business plan that will help me to get loans and hire employees. I'm doing this ALL ON MY OWN at this point. I'm the EVERYTHING. It's ridiculous....no one can do it all. My instructor is excited with my potential and ready to show me how to get balance back. And the final line of my "goals and objectives" is to build this business to be sucessfull...and then sell it. I don't want to do this forever...I don't even want to do this for 5 years. I just want to make it in to what I know it can be, and then move on to new things.

Come spring, when my class ends and I get a business plan and start actually moving in a balanced direction...I can sit with my hubby in the tractor while he farms and read books aloud or whatever. We'll make time together. And really, for as overwhelmed as I've been...we've been doing good. Watching movies together and taking baths and midnight rendevous. I've really tried not to neglect his needs completely. I know what it's like to be in his shoes, oddly enough.

I haven't asked him recently how he's feeling about all of this but I will now. It's my thought that he's supportive as long as the plan is still in obvious motion for this to be TEMPORARY. I think he sees an end, one way or another, to the path I'm on right now. He knows me well enough to know I can't keep up this pace once spring hits. I'm a nature girl....I'll need my time outside with my plants(and we spend that together as well).

Last night I was up until 1 doing homework and finishing up office work. Hubby sat with me for most of that time and offered help where he could. I know it's not what he would have preferred to be doing, but I totally appreciated that he understood it needed to be done and spent time with me anyway.

Oh, and your comment about me having a problem being average at anything is dead on. It's a HUGE problem for me and I'm afraid...No, I KNOW it will be an issue if I become the "boss". I'll expect from my employees what I expect from myself. That won't work...I know it already. I've already been trying to think about how it is that I'm going to deal with that. I think that if I could learn to lower the bar and learn to vocally appreciate and encourage people more it would help me to become a fantastic boss and a much better wife and mother, too.

Anyway, speaking of being a better wife and mother...I'm at the office still. I'd better get my billing done and get HOME to my family!!

You and Pepper are so wise...I'd love to learn the things that seem to come so naturally for you two. I have a feeling...however...that it's something that comes with adding 20 more years to your life. You think??

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Hate you??!!! WHAAAA????

It was supposed to be like this:
Please don't hate me, I'm just trying to help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I didn't do a very good proof read of that last one. My Grandma would turn over in her grave. ( she was an English teacher.)

THAT's why I'm taking the class on top of barely staying on top of work. I'm putting together a business plan that will help me to get loans and hire employees. I'm doing this ALL ON MY OWN at this point. I'm the EVERYTHING. It's ridiculous....no one can do it all. My instructor is excited with my potential and ready to show me how to get balance back.
I understand. I operate a small business too. We now have about 10 employees. Four full time and the rest part time. It is retail, so I know about customers. In the beginning, I did it all, worked 6 days a week, 12 hours a day ( sometimes more). That's part of why I said what I did. And yes, those extra years are full of doing it the wrong way sometimes, so I know personally about some things.

And really, for as overwhelmed as I've been...we've been doing good. Watching movies together and taking baths and midnight rendevous. I've really tried not to neglect his needs completely. I know what it's like to be in his shoes, oddly enough.
It sounds like you are on top of things. ( I know, but I think I'll just leave it anyway.)
When you said how busy you were, it worried me. I know I don't need to worry about you........but I tend to anyway.

I haven't asked him recently how he's feeling about all of this but I will now.
Remember that POJA is supposed to be BEFORE we start something. Oh yeah, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ( better not forget the wink this time.)

Last night I was up until 1 doing homework and finishing up office work. Hubby sat with me for most of that time and offered help where he could. I know it's not what he would have preferred to be doing, but I totally appreciated that he understood it needed to be done and spent time with me anyway.
I hope you know what you have in him. I think you do. As I think back to your letter a month or so ago, I believe it was part of the normal cycle of adjustments we always have in marriage. My experience is that it is always drifting off one direction or the other and we have to get it back on track constantly. That's why I worry about TEMPORARY trips taken on purpose away from the main road. I don't believe he was way out in left field, I believe he was just still learning and trying but didn't know it all yet.

Oh, and your comment about me having a problem being average at anything is dead on. It's a HUGE problem for me and I'm afraid...No, I KNOW it will be an issue if I become the "boss". I'll expect from my employees what I expect from myself. That won't work...I know it already. I've already been trying to think about how it is that I'm going to deal with that. I think that if I could learn to lower the bar and learn to vocally appreciate and encourage people more it would help me to become a fantastic boss and a much better wife and mother, too.
It does, both things. I am still learning, but better than before. Someday when you are caught up, read "7 habits " by Covey. Great for business, great for family. Dovetails with Harley very well.

Anyway, speaking of being a better wife and mother...I'm at the office still. I'd better get my billing done and get HOME to my family!!
I am glad we don't have to do billing. We do camping stuff, and it is cash and carry.

You and Pepper are so wise...I'd love to learn the things that seem to come so naturally for you two.
I have never felt wise, however I agree about Pepper. And thanks, you are very kind.

I have a feeling...however...that it's something that comes with adding 20 more years to your life.
I have thought a lot about that last one, and I am going to disagree - at least a little. Experience counts for a lot in many cases. But, I remember the story of the man that went in the navy and was there two years and promoted over another person in the engine room. The one passed over said that he had ten years experience and so he ought to get the promotion. The senior officer said " no, you have one years experience ten times, he has two years experience, so he gets it."

I believe you are like the person with the two years experience. I believe you are way ahead of where I was at your age. I believe both you and Hubby will do fine, and I am happy for your son. I hope you give yourself some credit, you are doing well, very well.
Let me also say again, I believe you made a very good choice in your H. From what you report, he gets it, and will continue to get it.

Thanks for the update, I am very happy that things are going the right direction. I still
think you should grab H, and your planner ( or palm, or whatever you use) and take an hour and put in dates, and trips and a nice vacation for this summer. In fact, things are really nice out west in Oct. The Grand Canyon is very nice then.
If you ever get near where I live, I'll buy you both ( or all three of you) lunch. W and I would be glad to go with you. ( any excuse for a date, we always say. )
So, in closing I'll just say "When did you say your next date was? It is on the schedule isn't it? "

SS

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We're planning a Valentines day rendevous, but I have to work around this class. Don't worry...I'll do it. I'm actually reading ahead now so I'll be ahead of schedule. That way I won't be worrying about junk when we actually get out of here. We also do have plans for a trip next fall to Colorado. I grew up there and haven't been back for 10 years. I hear it's changed a lot and I never did get a chance to take my H up the mountain! I'm excited about it and will definatly not allow those plans to get overrun by business or otherwise.

I've got to get some sleep...no more homework tonight...but I think I might have some business related questions for you later, if you wouldn't mind me picking your brain!!!

I totally agree with you on my H too. I always felt he was special...I'm glad I was right!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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H4F you are special.

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Hi Hope,
I thought I would come back on this thread and post just to keep you from getting your homework done.

I've got to get some sleep...no more homework tonight...but I think I might have some business related questions for you later, if you wouldn't mind me picking your brain!!!

Actually, I have been away on business and I thought I would check and see if you had added anything to this thread. I would be glad to help if I can, but there is not much of a brain to pick some days.

I trust you are doing well. AND YOU HAD BETTER BE.
SS

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Hubby and I are doing quite well...had some much needed time together this weekend, although I think I LB'd a hair by running off to work on my sis in laws computer at the office until late one night. Hubby was bored and sis and I tipped back a couple of wine coolers while stuff updated and such at the office. I tried to make up for it by paying special attention to him the next couple of days. Work is still taking too much time, but that's the point of the business plan...to make a plan to get me OUT of the office once in a while. We'll see...days like today I'm ready to throw in the hat all together. Anyway...thanks for checking on me...I probly will have some questions as I get further in to the business part of things. You have experience where I can only guess at certain things.


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