Luki- I agree. I spoke with Harley and he suggested that once she agrees to NC than we should enter a dating mode and start over again. That way we can learn what we want in a M and from eachother while also doing MC. I am doing my own IC also.

I guess I should give it a shot so I can say I tried everything. He said that if she agrees to NC that we should put the Dv on hold for now.

I just need to figure out how to tell her this without it being a LB. Also I leave town next week and won't really be able to deal with this until I return.

STTSI

How about: Dear W, i love you and want to work on our marriage, but any continued contact with the OM on your part is just too hard for me to bear. As soon as you end contact with him and we can agree for you to be accountable for that, I will be willing to put the divorce on hold and go to a marriage counselor together to work on a plan to restore our marriage. If you are unwilling to reconcile on those terms, I am willing to discuss alternatives, but no contact with the OM is non-negotiable.

Anyone see any lovebusters in there?

STTSI -

I'm a little grumpy today, so take this with a grain of salt.

I totally agree with Tomaz, Michaelindallas, and Bellevue. In fact, I think they are giving WW the benefit of the doubt.

IMHO, wifey is ONLY coming back because her lawyer revealed to her that all her divorce demands won't be met. So here's the deal: she moves back in with you, quits her job, hangs around for a few years, then leaves you high and dry.

Am I being unduly harsh on someone I've never met? Probably, but the fact that she started cheating after ONE MONTH, and wanted all those goodies after being married less than a year, sets off all sorts of warning flags in my head.

But then maybe I'm just being a cynical old man.

I see no LB's in John's suggestion, but then again, I'm not in a WS fog state of mind.

I support you no matter what you decide or who you decide to go about it

STTSI,

Have you consulted with your lawyer as to any legal consequences that may arise from delaying the D.

I stand by my last post, but you should watch your back in this situation. Any chance of a post-nuptial agreement being reached to protect yourself/assests? I'm just brainstorming here.

-Luki

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Luki:
<strong>Have you consulted with your lawyer as to any legal consequences that may arise from delaying the D.
-Luki</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You bring up a good point, I will check with my lawyer tomorrow. I truly am afraid that she wants to reconcile becuase she sees that she won't get the money she wanted.

I do not want to be used again, but I feel I have to try anyway.

STTSI

STTSI, I was wondering what kind of religious convictions did your wife have before this? Has she always been this way or is this a big change?
I think that if you have the strength for it you should try to reconcile one last time. You HAVE to stick to your convictions on what it would take from her before you could try this. If you tell her in a respectful way what you need from her that's the best you can do. If she sees this as a LB that's her problem.
I know exactly what you are going through as far as wanting to know that you did everything you could to save your M. That is very important to me too. I am going through all this because one way or the other I have to be able to look back and know I gave it my best shot. Now that I've learned how to have a fullfilling relationship with someone I have to try and make it work or I would always have regrets and wonder what might have been. I think you feel the same way. It's scary because you have to open yourself up to the pain again if your wife tries for a while and then goes back to her old ways but it's a chance worth taking imho so you can live with yourself afterwards. Good Luck whatever you decide to do.

STTSI-

After scanning through your posts, I will offer you my persdpective if you are interested.

I feel that you owe it to yourself to at least sit down and hear your wife out. You constructed a PLAN-B letter that stated what you would need in order to look at recovery with your wife. She is aware of the needs that you have.

I personally believe that WS can experience a change of heart - I did. Your wife may be speaking from her heart and the only way that you wiwll know it is to sit with her and hear her out. I've often said that if a WS is genuine in their desire to recovr, the BS will know that they are speaking the truth. Perhaps it's the non defensive tone, or the way they look you in the eye. I'm not sure what it is, but I swear you WILL know.

I feel that you still love your wife, you just seem to be afraid that this turmoil will never end. Truthtfully, if you and your wife do the work together, things will be better than you ever imagined....

You've seen the worst that your wife will ever hand you, You have NOT seen the best that she can offer you...

Starting out with someone new will only bring you a new set of unknown issues. Just consider that...

I support you no matter what. Please consider my views with an open mind...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by starman:
<strong>STTSI, I was wondering what kind of religious convictions did your wife have before this? Has she always been this way or is this a big change?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a HUGE change for her! In the 10 years I have known her she has never gone to church. W and I spoke about religion before we were married and I thought we both held the same beliefs, that you could be religious without going to church every Sunday. My views on religion have changed from all this and I am sure hers have too. What scares me is that the pendulum (sp?) has gone so far the other way.

Yes you are right, I have to live with myself always wondering what if I tried a little harder. That is why I feel I have no choice but to try also.

Kily- I haven't read your posts. Were you a WS? You said that somehow I WILL know, I wish I knew how I would know.

What hurts the most is that I had started to make peace with the situation and start to put it behind me and move on. Now all those happy and sad/hurtful times are now brought back to the surface again.

She sent another email that said she is ready to quit her job and move somewhere else. She said she will do whatever it takes to make the M work. I wonder why the change? Before that was WAYYYYY too much for me to ask of her. Because she was dumped by OM now she will make the changes I asked for over four months ago? I feel I have to try but I am scared I will get hurt again.

STTSI

StTSI-

Very remorseful WP (not mraried but had 14 yr R with my X)

I might suggest that you read Mortarman's recent posts to get an idea of the concept that you will "KNOW" if she is sincere. From what you've written, I believe that she is ready.

My own story is quite long and interesting. What I can say is that there came a point in my life where I finally had an epiphany. I actually saw everything with clarity and realized just how badly I screwed it all up. I wanted nothing more than to go home and treat my X the way that he deserved. I wanted to committ the rest of my life to loving him thte way he deserved. I wanted to give him and my kids EVERYTHING I could.....I didn't get the chance.

I am committed now to helping others on this board. Your story is one that can have recovery. Please read mortarman's post if you haven't. I can also provide this link if you can't find it.

STTSI,

I think I got one too many initials in the salutation, but no matter. Please listen to Kily. She has been where your WW is now. You have been receiving what seems to me very good advice. You have asked the right questions.

But, I thought I would add a few twists and turns to your thinking. First, you must realize in this very strange world you find yourself in often what is UP is actually DOWN, what seems DOWN is actually UP. In short normal logic doesn't apply. But, patterns do exist.

One of the very very basic tenants of this site is that Affairs almost always end. Not always but almost always. If one waits for this and has done their homework on themselves, often times the marriage is successfully recovered. Dr. Harley and his family have done very well financially because they know this to be true. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So you ask am I second choice because OM dumped her? The answer is yes you are second choice, but were also first choice, and more importantly she very likely realizes that you are the BEST choice. Why? Because when your life was the worst it could be, you hung in there for her, when the smoke cleared you were still standing, abit smudged with smoke and debris <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , but still standing.

Why? Because you loved her.

Now you are not so sure, and a prudent and reasonable man would be NUTS not to feel as you do. However, your love can be rebuilt, and if you don't take this chance all of the pain, all of the learning will have been for naught. You must do this, right? Although you fear the pain, you must find out. When you do trust one of two things will happen. You will be far happier than you thought, or you will experience far less pain than you think and can walk away KNOWING you did your best.

One final thought on this. There is no one as staunch believer as the converted. Your WW may well finally understand how deeply you loved her.

Give it a chance. As Kily said, I think you will KNOW if it is right. That is not the same as saying it will be easy. The message is simple, but the path may not be easy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Kily and JL thanks for your input! You have no idea how helpful it is to have some support. Cerri has also taken me on as a project and she has also been great!

I will look for Mortarmans post, I assume it is at GQII but either way I will find and read it. I think she is sincere but trust is SOOOO shattered that I wonder.

JL- Yes down is up and up is down. I have come to that conclusion also. I wonder if I am the best choic for her and she for me. And yes I am trying to stand. Right now I am still crawling around but I am trying.

I feel I should try so now the question is what are the boundaries and limits? I am talking to my lawyer about the legal issues also.

Thanks for your continued support and advice.
STTSI

STTSI,

Talking to the lawyer is a good idea. As others have pointed out, your marriage never really got off the ground, and really even Harley might suggest to just leave it. There are many issues here.

But, if you do decide to see what is on her mind then boundaries are very important. Just remember they are supposed to be boundaries, NOT HOOPS. I know it is a temptation to punish her, but really the focus should be: WILL THIS WORK?

Just because you try doesn't mean you have to accept less that you want from the marriage. You have gotten precious little out of it so far. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But, that doesn't mean that this couldn't work out well.

So STTSI, talk with your lawyer, and definitely with Cerri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> she will do her best.

I think that you will be much happier no matter how this turns out, for having tried. Years from now, you will know you gave it all you had. There are some big issues here,but do remember people do grow and learn. Kily did and I think she will find someone and make someone a great W. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your WW may be like her. Just needs mature. Or she may really be a product of her parents, and not. That is for you to discover.

God Bless,

JL

STTSI-

Any questions please feel free to ask.....

Here's a link to motarman's thread. I really hope that it inspires you.

JL is right on with his advice. As always he is really an inspiration for thought and growth....

<a href="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=022938" target="_blank">
Mortarmans Latest</a>

Mortarman, I hope you don't mind the link.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am scared I will get hurt again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Put that in your reply to the email that contains your conditions. No time like the present to start with the radical honesty.

<small>[ March 14, 2003, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Just popping in to say I agree with what has already been posted. I know it is scary. The mistake I made the first time we reconciled was the same as with Chocolate chick. Did not resolve past issues. Assumed they were resolved. Huge mistake there. I was afraid to address those issues. Afraid that he would not agree if it was put into words, so I assumed that he would naturally follow the path of what married people are supposed to do and be like.

Your wife's actions have shown you no reason why you should trust her. If your wife is serious about wanting to reconcile than she should have no objections to signing a prenuptial agreement after the divorce and before you marry her again. This way you protect yourself.

<small>[ March 14, 2003, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: tomaz ]</small>

Tonight I will try to write my response to W.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here! You have been of great help. I need all the support I can get. I have few place to turn as my friends and family don't understand my need to try once more.

My lawyer says I can get a legal separation from my W instead of a Dv. That is what I was going to do when she served me papers anyway. I feel it is necessary but Cerri questions it. While I don't like to disagree with the wise-one I feel it necessary to protect myself. I also think it is an act of good-faith on her part to agree to it considering what she has done.

Thoughts?

STTSI

Tomaz you are right. Her actions have destrroyed my trust for her. Name WS that hasn't done that to the BS?

I agree with protecting myself that is why I am thinking about the separation. WHile our M was short before the A started we DO have a LONG history together and that is hard to walk away from.

I feel if I don't try I will always wonder "what if?" I will set the ground rules and she will agree to them or there is no M to work on as I see it. I know that makes me sound like a jerk, but I feel I have to be firm in my conditions.

STTSI

OK here is the first draft.
Sorry had to edit this out.

Thanks
STTSI

<small>[ March 16, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Still Trying To Save It ]</small>