My WH went out of town supposedly to a conference. He told my son he was going and not me. There really is a conference this weekend but he did not tell me he was going beforehand. I asked him if I could go with him earlier in the week and he said NO.

There's a good chance he took her. She left work early. She is not at home. Do I let him know that I know that she went? What if he refuses to tell me where he is?

I don't know how I'm going to make it through the weekend. I told him this morning how much it would hurt me if he is with her this weekend. This is too cruel. What am I going to do?????

I'm sorry Mimi. I wish we were neighbors, then we could try and cheer each other up.
My wife picked up our daughter today from school because she was not feeling well. Left me a note at home saying that she was at her mom's and did not know if she would come home tonight. Needless to say, our son is very upset because sissy is at grandmas and he is not. Can't these people see how they mess up everybodys lives, and they would be the first to complain if it was happening to them.

I'm sorry for your pain mimi. My D-day was just a few days before yours. It's the worst pain imaginable. Unfortunately if you are going to do an effective plan A I think you have to let your emotions out as much as possible over the weekend and be ready to be as pleasant as possible when he comes home. Easier said than done I know. I'm just now becoming halfway effective with my plan but it seems to be paying off at least a little bit already. Good luck to you and keep reading. It really helps.

Gosh- what a setback. I for one could not tolerate that. If my H did that I would throw him out of the house, in a calm, respectful way. Not screaming- "just make your choice. People don't treat each other that way. I wouldn't treat you that way."

Another option would be- go away yourself for a few days and give him a taste of his own medicine. Did he leave you a phone number of where he is? Probably not. I would not answer the phone. Just go away, check into a hotel. Let him come home to a house where you're not there. (Let son stay with relatives, or bring son with you.)
Come back, be laconic, and tell him you were so upset you had to go away to "think". Let him come home to an empty house and wonder and worry. And you just say, I wanted to tell you where I was going- but I didn't have a phone number for you.

I think with this kind of conduct he is amping it up and looking for a fight or a confrontation.

Mimi,

You're right it does seem cruel for him to invite her to go out of town.

Your gut instinct is probably right on based on what you have said. Since you cannot control what he does, even though he knows how much he'll hurt you, you need to refocus your attention and take care of you this weekend.

On one hand it is good that he is still living in your home. It gives you the chance to plan A still.

I won't pretend to know how you feel because this did not happen to me. I just wish I could take away the pain if even for a few minutes. Your thread has touched me, causes me to shake my head in wonder how people can hurt others.

I'm trying to think of what SH would say. My thought would be to not confront at this stage; you may drive him away as a result. However can you take this weekend and read, read, read, & journal your feelings; and take fresh air walks?

My thoughts are with you. Take care and let us know how you are doing. Blessings, CSue

Another thing I really can't understand is that he did something very nice for me beforehand. He took my 16 year old son to the doctor which is something he has hardly ever done. I just don't get it. It's like he really hates me! This seems like more than the FOG! It's more like emotional abuse. Did I make a mistake by asking him NOT to be with her this weekend???

He'll probably call me. What do I say???

<small>[ January 24, 2003, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi,
You know I have been keeping up on your posts and I am truly sorry that you are going through it. I want to concentrate on you though because from your other posts you say he is on you with everything you are doing or saying that is wrong. I think you have to start thinking what is best for you and what can keep you the healthiest during this time. You know it's going to be a long row to hoe and to keep yourself going if he is continueing with her and living at home. I don't know what your best solution is because it's an individual choice. I do know that you have to be strong, patient, determined but I also know you have to know how much you emotionally can take and still be able to maintain mental balance in your everyday life.

For me, WS had to move out because it was getting to the point that with the blatant actions of shoving his A in my face and being nasty and emotionally abusive, I knew I could not keep up that pace for very long without it affecting my mental or emotional wellbeing. I also did not want to become resentful and destroy anything remaining in my "love bank" for him. When he finally left, I was relieved and sad at the same time, but I also starting sleeping better, I didnt have to watch the door to see when he was going to come in after spending time with her. I didn't have to wait to see if he would throw me a bone and say something as simple as "Hi". When he left I got to concentrate on me and not having to walk on eggshells and have everything I said twisted to make me look like I was in the "FOG", and that he was the sane one.

I know that it is a personal journey because even though all our stories are the same they are very different as far as the cast of characters with unique behaviors, programming,reasonings, rationalizations, justifications etc.

Please know that I will be watching your posts and will be here for you should you need someone to vent to. It's too cold to be outside here in the "TUNDRA"...so I will be online most of the week-end as I know it gets slow here then. Take Care

mimi,

I don't have much advice to offer, but I can tell you that I know your pain too well. Just know that we are here if you need anything.

Be well.

<small>[ January 24, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: utterlyconfused ]</small>

Neesha,
You are right. I'm not sure I can take this anymore. I've tried to be a believer in MB. However, I really am beginning to believe that my husband does not love me anymore and has fallen in love with this other woman. He won't even try really. He would not even consider taking me to the meeting which is at the beach, by the way. He's just at home. I think because he really does not know how to leave and may be wanting me to kick him out. I don't know about this PLAN A and PLAN B stuff anymore. At least, I'm beginning to believe we need to separate. I'm thinking about letting him win, asking him to leave rather than letting him leave on his own.

I am utterly devastated this time!!!

<small>[ January 24, 2003, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

mimi,
go to the emotional needs board and read the "longest post ever.".
at one month i had no idea who my wife was anymore,at2 months i hated who she was,at 3 months,i was glad she was still around,at 4 months i wished she would just leave,5 months ...it just goes on.at 2 years,i'm just glad we got this far.
you asked what you should do...just do what you are diong for as long as you can.im' sure your husband is worth it.
if he does call,wish him a good time.he needs a friend,someone to listen,so be that. before this is over you do things you never imagined.and when it is done you will be glad you did.

Mimi,
STOP!!!! BREATHE!!!! Ahhhhhh.

Now, you have a million emotions and thoughts swirrling around you, let's back up a few steps from when you posted: "Neesha you are right".

What I was posting was about you and only you and to know what to do for your emotional health. You can not say that your husband does not love you, his mind has moved to "FoggyTown". What I was suggesting was this, if plan A is getting unhealthy for you and that you are at your breaking point, then for your sake as well as the love you have for hubby, maybe it's time for plan B. I can't answer that for you. Some of us can and do plan A for a long time being able to be under the same roof, some can't ;that is because we all have different personalities and situations to deal with even though it's under the same basic reason.

You might have to plan B from the standpoint that his behavior is taking a toll on you on all levels and you might need to have him physically away from you for right now, and giving him his space while you heal, and get in touch with yourself as far as what you feel needs to be worked on for the betterment of your M. It appears that he likes the comforts of home with the freedom to roam and not have to answer to it by what he says to you: "I don't want to talk about this, or you are doing this wrong". As long as he has you right there in front of him to blame for what his choices are, it will only help him in continueing his behavior. Who is he going to blame when it's just him looking in the mirror. Then as he is out there doing his own thing, you can work on you, I don't know what he feels he's lacking and he isn't who I'm posting to. I'm posting to the woman that loves her husband and wants a strong marriage, so I can't begin to speak for his wants. But you have stated yours.

It's too easy for him, even though somewhere deep inside of him, he's ashamed at what he is doing and has become, he just is so caught up in it, it's becoming what controls him. And when he looks at you, it must make him have to lash out because that's the only way one can be able to justify what they have become. He does not respect himself nor condone what he's doing, but where he is at mentally he can,by the negative behaviorhe displays.There is a duality inside of him that is doing battle. Enough about him, what can you do for yourself to help you go the distance?

Neesha,

I just got comfort by talking to my husband's best friend. Steve said that his friends will be my allies and he was right. HIS friend validated that I am a good person and that I do not need to be treated this way. He thinks my WS is being "stupid" and "self-destructive; that he will end up with "nothing" if he does not get himself together. He is worried. He encouraged me to take better care of myself and to stay away from the OW. I do not like what this is making me become. People are beginning to tell me that I need to "put some meat on my bones", meaning I've lost too much weight. I can't believe that my husband doesn't care what this is doing to me. I know, I can't help but focus on him.

My H was doing so well, coming home every night, calling me. What did she do today to get to him? My son said that his cell phone was ringing off the hook in the car on their way to the doctor's but he would not answer it. He was in such a good mood at the doctor. I guess happy about being with her.

I'm going to be doing alot of thinking about what I need to do. I want to hear your suggestions.

If I were to do Plan B, do I tell him when he comes in the door or give him a letter?

Plan A does not mean that your H should get to continue in his affair, blatantly throwing it in your face and not have to live with the consequences for doing so. It does not mean you put on a happy face and pretend nothing is happening. It does mean you are honest about your feelings and how his actions are affecting you but that you do not lovebust while expressing those feelings. You are respectful in your words and actions and you respect his decision to have his OW and don't beg, plead or try to educate him at all.

So what are the natural consequences of your WS deciding he is going to continue to disrespect you and his marriage and family? That is an individual thing. For me it meant that I would not be second fiddle, why should I, I was his wife. I respectfully told him it was me or her, his choice. If he couldn't decide that he still wanted to be married (OW lived 350 miles away)he needed to go live somewhere else to figure that out. I was a basket case and couldn't work, eat and could barely take care of my 3 kids and household while he walked around agonizing over what to do. It was unbearable living with him. He had lost all respect for me because I allowed myself to be reduced to being less than a wife, I was a convenience. I had to have him go.

No consequences to bad behavior = No motivation to change anything.

My H moved out to decide what he wanted. He now had to cook, do his laundry and his kids refused to go with him for weekend visitations ( they were 13,8 and 6 at the time). Finally there were natural consequences for him to experience as a result of his indecision. It helped him make up his mind a lot faster and put a limit on how much pain I was in on a daily basis. I was one who could not live with an affair flying in my face, the pain was too great. I was prepared for him not to come back.

Plan A is not about winning your WS back. It is about making you a better you. I made mistakes in my marriage, yes, but I was not a terrible spouse. I had let my priorities get out of whack. There were not a lot of changes for me to make. I simply let my H know that I was sorry for putting many things before his needs and expecting him to sit on the back burner for way too long. I told him I would change that. Would anything change that with him continuing to disrespect me? No, but it would if he decided to stay and work on the relationship. He had to decide to stay before he could experience the benefits. He moved out but it wasn't a Plan B. We still had contact, in fact he couldn't stay away from the house and I got plenty of opportunity to show him what he was missing. It wasn't long before he decided to come home ( we went to individual counseling while he was gone and had a very short course of antidepressants).We have enjoyed over 3 years of recovery and I have the marriage and husband now that I always dreamed of having. Yes, many,many good things can come out of an affair when you have a repentent spouse!

You must take a long, hard, objective look at your options. You can decide to be in pain, waiting for him to give her up ( just ask yourself if a confident,strong, attractive woman would do this for long )or you can respectfully tell him that his indecision is too painful and you can't live together this way anymore (natural consequence of his deciding to continue in his A). Plan Aing for a long period of time with your H having no consequences to his behavior is not going to influence him to make up his mind to return to the marriage. If your H sees that you feel that you are worthy of respect and refuse to be second in his life, then he'll have to do something if he wants that kind of a woman. He has a history with you, an honorable one. You can count on that to have some impact on his thinking if he indeed is a man worth having.

If he wants to continue to screw around at your expense and at the expense of your son is he really worth having? For me, I decided "no". I utimately decided I wanted no part of a man who thought so very little of me to keep me in the midst of a situation that was causing me the most crippling pain of my life. I would be better off without him if that were the case. Be strong, respect yourself and he'll respect you for it as well. Expect him to be very angry at first, of course he won't like having to deal with those natuaral consequences. All the best to you!

I may have jumped to conclusions!

I just saw the OW driving into her housing complex as I was leaving the complex. Yes, I snoop on her. Just another one of my blessings though that by coincidence I happened to see her. That's how I found them at the motel. I believe it was divine intervention. That's another story!

This is not to say that they were not together tonight. I can rest easier, though, knowing that she is not going to be with him all weekend at the beach.

He has not called yet.

Thanks for all the support! As you know, this is a crazy time--living in my nightmare. I will keep you posted.

<small>[ January 24, 2003, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi,

Where is he and who is he with? Did he tell you that he was going out of town? I think you are quickly heading into a Plan B because the things he is doing will quickly destroy any love you have for him. Has Steve discussed Plan B with you?

Here is a good article about Plan A/B from this website: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

I wouldn't do anything until you talk to Steve, though.

mthrr: I found your post to be very helpful and eye-opening. I do have to take a long, hard, objective look at my options. I need to regain my self-respect.

To all of you:

I am having a hard time believing that this is happening. I can't get past thinking that I'm going to wake up and everything is going to be back to normal. The problem is that begging, pleading and educating used to work with my WS in the past. I guess that's when he was "in love" with me. I did alot of this LBing on Thursday and I'm telling myself that that is what this weekend is all about.

I am beginning to realize that Plan B/separation will be the best course of action. However, please consider and help me with this issue if you all can. I have been with my husband since I was 18 years old. I have been with him for most of my life. I AM SCARED TO BE ALONE!!!! I am very dependent on him for safety, security, direction. Just his presence is important to me. Thus, the problem of being unable to sleep when he is gone. Yes, I haven't had his heart but I have had him here and that has been important to me.

I am also concerned about the financial consequences of a separation. Its scary for us to split up money after all these years of what's mine is yours. We have never had separate checking accounts; never had conflicts about money. That's never been an issue in our lives.

The hostility has increased since I actually discovered them. This is another issue for me that keeps me trying. Prior to my discovery of them, from 11/02 to 1/03, my WS was treating me better than he had been in years. He was calling me at work, saying he loved me. Then, when I actually found them, he's seems to want to portray that he does not care. That's why I can't believe it. Even now he has occasions when the old self slips through. Although in reality I know that our relationship will not be the same, it was so wonderful before all of this.

These are some of my thoughts as I wrestle with this. Your feedback is welcomed.

Mel: I know that he was considering going to a business conference this weekend. It's weird how he did this though. He told my son to tell me that he decided to go.

<small>[ January 25, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi,
I know how scared you are, I will tell you about me since you know some already. When WS and I got together I was in chemo, I stopped it and moved to be with him almost 4 years ago, out POJA was that I would "get well", take care of the house, pets, and keep him emotionally up so as he worked fulltime he could go to school and finish a degree that he failed to do the first time around. He is 38 now, so I agreed to that with my stipulations, that if I go at this 100%, then he also has to realize that he will have to consider us (relationship) as important as school and work or we could never get through it, well there is where it all went to pieces. He got stressed and felt the relationsip could be put on the backburner and not nurtured or cared for. Well we all know what's going to happen. I did try Mimi, to help him understand that if he was so obsessed about worrying about tomorrow, and not dealing with today, there would be no future because you build everyday. He then let life become an albatross around his neck and needed to escape, that is what he did.

He dumped everything, and I mean everything on me, I know noone here in this state, I moved here from Florida. His sister lives with me and she was living here with us before he left. She and I are like sisters, so she is helping me because I was not working, matter of fact I was just dealing with some of health issues this past year because WS said we could not afford for me to go to doctors in the previous ones. It is such a long crazy story not worth rehashing. But I will tell you this, I was WS's emotional, backbone, because he did not want to use his own skills, he wanted to blame everyone else for things he chose to do or not do. It became a battle because he would psychologically sabatoge himself and then look at me and say I didn't give him enough, or I didn't understand, or I was expecting too much. Then he chose to have the affair and go to fantasy land, but in this fantasy land WS has gone to the point that he abandoned averything and everyone he loved and cared for, his morals, home, pets. He believes that he and the MOW, are meant to be and will get married and his life will be so much better off because I was the one that made him sad and made him fail at everything.

I am surviving Mimi, and I know what it is to be dependant on someone financially, as it is all too clear. I was always an independantly financially solvent woman, but things happen to knock us on our butts. I am not telling you I don't have bad days thinking about how in the heck am I going to swing all this especially with the health issues, but I take it minute by minute, day by day..etc.

We all want our relationships to make it and be stronger and healthier but in the mean time we have to grow and learn what WE need for ourselves to fulfill that because it does come from within us or it can't be expressed to another. Mimi, know that I am here and I can relate very well to your situation. All my best goes out to you. We all will get through this together one way or anther and be so much healthier people for it.

Neesha:

I think we are onto something. Just like you, I have been my WS' emotional backbone and he has always depended on me to help him with a lot of things. That has been the nature of our relationship since college days 30 years ago. Now he resents that and wants to make a try of doing things on his own. He is sensitive about me helping him with anything. He makes hurtful comments like: "you know everything". Of course, that's what he thinks. I do know a lot. He used to be proud of that. His best friend told me yesterday that I am one of the "smartest" women he has ever known. However, my WS is not seeing how much I have depended on him. So just like your WS he is on the brink of walking away from everything. He is a fallen man in our community. He used to be on the school board, was a deacon in the church. Now he has isolated himself and has nothing to do with anybody. I have followed suit and not continued my relationships with our social circle but it hasn't gotten me anywhere has it? So now he's in this fantasy land. Is that what we can call it? A relationship with a young, unsophisticated, uneducated woman. I guess I have to admit how sick that relationship must be. I guess he does all the educating and she does all the listening. YUK! Father/daughter-incestuous. You see, I know that I can't really compete with that. I won't be able to play dumb, naive and stupid.

I'm facing the need to be brave and go on alone. My WS seems totally lost to me. He probably will need to really hit bottom. It's so sad for us to lose everything that we have worked for. It's so crazy....

What do you think of my plan on the GIVING ULTIMATUMS post?

<small>[ January 25, 2003, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>
However, I really am beginning to believe that my husband does not love me anymore and has fallen in love with this other woman. He won't even try really. He would not even consider taking me to the meeting which is at the beach, by the way. He's just at home. I think because he really does not know how to leave and may be wanting me to kick him out.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Mimi - I just wanted to say a few things. First, I am so sorry you are going through this, and I feel for you. You sound so much like I did a couple of years back...

My H had a deep EA with an old friend of his, who oddly enough, never really wanted to be MY friend. (RED FLAG!! ) He has known her considerably longer than he has known me, which is over twenty years. She lives far, far away, which may or may not be a good thing. In some ways it's a bad thing, because the fantasy thing really kicks in big time... But on the other hand, he wasn't out spending all kinds of time with her physically.

In any case, our M was in really bad shape, which I do take a large chunk of responsibility for, but my H played a large part as well. And my H opted to talk about our situation within the confines of their "friendship." You know the rest. OW is not married, and was able to devote ALL her free time to my H, even from far away. My H had decided he was gone - outta here regarding this M. No remorse when it was exposed, nothing but anger at my lack of understanding. He completely and totally felt that he was moving on and likely making a life with OW. I truly felt he hated me. I do know that he did not like me very much, but I do think the love was still there, somewhere, buried underneath all that fog. It took a long time, and a lot of work to find it, but it was still there.

I, like you, absolutely could not stand the blatant "A in your face" stuff. I needed medication to help me get through it. But my H had come to me initally asking for a D - that's all that he wanted. It was never a situation where he said he was sorry, or what could we do to rebuild, or what could he do to make it up to me. He had made these plans with OW. That was all that mattered. He wanted out. He did not want a separation. He made it clear that there was NO CHANCE for rebuilding. NONE. But, he never did leave. And within a month of D-day, he WAS agreeable to our jointly seeing a counselor, which we did for almost a year.

I had not yet heard of MB, and after MUCH LB'ing, a dear friend pointed out to me that my being angry was not likely to make my H want me again. So, I wound up plan A'ing without knowing that's what I was doing. But knowing that the phone calls and e-mails between them were fast and furious was really hard. And then there were the visits... But as things got better between us, he actually reached the point when he realized that NC with OW was necessary. It took him months to realize that. (I did have to ask him nicely to discontinue contact, however.) That was extremely hard for him, as she had been a friend to him for so long. In truth, NC was a long time in coming - he did have a few "setbacks." But I do believe that there honestly is no more contact, and there hasn't been for some time.

Sorry for the long story, but my point is that as bad as things looked for us (and they looked REALLY bad!) they did turn around. And my H was absolutely certain that they could never turn around. He was convinced that people could not change, and so I had to prove to him that they can. He also learned that there were ways in which he needed to change as well. So some good did come out of all of this. Our relationship is probably better than it has ever been.

I just know that often, even when someone is convinced that their feelings for another are dead and gone, and that those feelings can't come back, it's just not true. It may feel that way at the time, but whatever love there had been can come back. When they're in the fog, they just can't see it.

Now I'm going to go and read your other post!

MT