I need some opinions from some BS’s.

It’s been 10 months since this A came out. Since then my H and I have been continuing to live together and “act” like we’re happy. I say “act” because there have many times that I have truly felt that way only to have him say that he didn’t feel that way even though he acted like it.

Our biggest mistake is that we didn’t start counseling immediately after this all came to light. Months later I tried to get him to go and he wouldn’t.

Well, now he tells me that even though I have done so many things in the past 10 months to show him I’m making a HUGE effort at this, he hasn’t changed his feelings. He doesn’t think he’s in love with me.

Last week he told me he thinks he wants a divorce. He wants us to continue sleeping in the same bed for now. We haven’t been physical for months. (his choice.) He still kisses me before bed and says I love you. He kisses me in the morning before he goes to work and says I love you.

He constantly says I don’t understand his feelings. He says that he sees that getting a divorce is a good option because even after all I have done he doesn’t feel any differently toward me. I want to go to couples counseling. He says that I want to “change” his feelings. I don’t want to do that. I am just trying to get him to understand how before we sell the house and tell the kids that we should try this. He doesn’t feel that way.

I could be wrong but I just feel that his heart is still so hurt and those hurtful feelings are just overpowering him. That maybe if we were to sell the house and split everything that maybe he would feel differently then and maybe want me back. I kind of feel like he’s in a fog now. Different then my A fog. I think he’s living in the pain.

For the past 10 months we have been living together and just going day to day doing nothing and his feelings haven’t changed. Could it be that’s why? Because we haven’t gone to couples counseling or been apart?

I just need some thoughts from some of you. What do all of you think? I’m so confused I’m not even sure I have made any sense. Please respond.

LWH,

Have you read MortarMan's threads? If so you might some insight there, although the situations are somewhat different. I am not a BS nor a WS, so I don't fit the profile you asked for.

However, I do think you need to be honest with him. YOU ARE TRYING TO CHANGE HIS FEELINGS. What you may not want to change is who he is. In fact, you would probably like to see the man he was before all of this.

Does he have any close friends, clergy, that you could speak to? I realize that this would mean explaining what has happened,but perhaps they could help.

I will tell you what I think. I think he is depressed. Turning 30 does that to people although I don't know why. W having an affair surely will do it. Ones inability to deal with it, will also do this. LWH, would he consider doing some reading? If so, perhaps some of the Harley books would help get him thinking.

I presume that the marriage wasn't all that great before your A and yes his A. If that is the case, perhaps he feels that there really isn't anything to salvage and he might be right. But, rather than looking backward perhaps he might consider looking forward to having a better marriage. That doesn't take a new W. It takes a better W and a better H.

That can be achieved IF you both decide to go that way. Maybe you should see if he will tell you what he wants in his life. What is goals are. Where he sees himself in 10 years. I am sure the tails will be without you, but take heart. Once you have the information perhaps some new ideas will come to you.

I know you will here from others. So hang in there, this stuff takes a long time to get through sometimes.

God Bless,

JL

Just Learning,

Thanks for your reply and your honesty. Let me explain myself a little more. I don't feel I'm trying to change his feelings. I honestly believe that he's speaking through pain. I feel like he can't see anything through the pain. I'm not trying to change his feelings, I am just trying to get him to see that maybe talking to someone (like you suggested) would help him to work through his pain.

I've tried it all. He won't talk to anyone or read anything.

Our marriage before my A was really good actually. Our marriage during is A was good, too.
I know, sounds weird. It is to me, too.

Thanks for your insight.

LWH...

I gotta agree with JL here....

You are trying to change his feelings...

Don't be defensive about it, it is what we are all trying to do for the most part...we, BSs, are trying to show our WSs that we are are worth trying to make our marriages work...for the WSs that are also trying to do that, they too are working to change the BSs feelings from, mis-trust to trust; from hurt to love; from resentment to caring etc etc etc...

While not a psychologist (so take what I say for what it's worth--free advice) I, too, think your H is depressed. It sounds like he is just going thru the motions in life right now and has not had a chance to confront the pain and deal with the feelings that he has.

He probably needs them validated by an outside entity ie counselor, therapist etc.

We guys are tough to convince to talk about our feelings...but in many cases we need to....

I know you said your H won't see a counselor or read anything but if you can somehow convince him to do that (or even post or read here) I think it would be quite helpful--to him. Rather than focus on your relationship right now perhaps you need to just let him work on him....does that make sense?

Have you read any of the post-affair books. "After the Affair" is a good one...perhaps if you began reading it and maybe left it lying around your H might just pick it up. Dr. Phil's "Relationship Rescue" is also good and for general focus so is his "Life Strategies" book.

Try one or all of them and if nothing else you will be armed with more information and insight...


I wish I had a better answer for you...I know this is difficult. I wish you well.

E

Okay, I hear you both. I am going to accept the fact that maybe I am trying to change him.

I will try not to use those words anymore.
I guess it's just hard to put it into words. Like I said earlier I feel he's talking through so much pain and I want him to talk to someone to confront it.

I have books, tapes, etc....but I can't just keep it lying out because we have two kids...one a teenager.

We are going to talk tonight and I will try to focus on his feelings and not relationship talk like you suggested. Thank you very much for your adivce.

There is a saying that goes something like 'Don't beleive everything you hear, and beleive only half of what you see'. Your H is talking about wanting a divorce, but what has he done to actually make it a reality? my guess is that he has probably done nothing, am I right? Actions, not words, speak the loudest.

Are you going to counseling at this moment?

Some possibly helpful things to think about:

Acknowledge at an appropriate time that you understand that you can't make him change his feelings. You'd really like to see his feelings change, but that's up to him. What you want is to be in a loving marriage. Perhaps clarifying that difference will mute that debate point a little bit. The, "Yes you are trying to change them/No I'm not" battle, the way it is now, just seems to be a wall to bang your head against. Or heck, if you ever were trying to change his feelings, admit it and go on from there. Try and remove that as a shield for him to use. There more to this issue than I can write here - I just wanted to identify that as something that might be able to use some changes.

One question that wasn't really described was whether your H if a good marriage is something that would be ideal. Is that something he wants? Would he want to be in a restored relationship with the mother of his children? You might just be able to ask him that in a straightforward manner. Or tweak it a bit if you feel the risk of LBing is there.

If he doesn't want it, then the logical conclusion to think about is that he really wants a divorce (and isn't just thinking about it). (or a not-good marriage, but who really wants that?). Don't get into an arguement about it, but my point is that hopefully he would say "Yes, I do want a good marriage." There'll probably be some qualifier like, "but I don't think...blah blah"). If he does say no, then that's a whole other burden to deal with.

I'm thinking that understanding that question would provide a better sense of what your H might be willing to consider. And depending on the answer, provide either some hope or warning signs of some big issues. And depending on the answer, it might solidify his collection of wants.

I would answer one of your questions by saying that without both partners working on the M, that recovery is a whole lot harder and that there is only so much that one person can do.

I would consider trying out a few sessions by yourself with SH or another counselor who could come up with a plan for recovery. Or come up with one yourself. After 10 months of limbo, you must be getting kind of fustrated and tired. It is hard to know the specifics of how well your are working on things outside a counseling session (i.e. this board), so that's another benefit of real counseling. I couldn't really tell if you've been in IC or not.

Anyway, good luck.

No, we are not in counseling. I have been going alone for 5 months. I have bought books, tapes, etc...... He won't do anything. He doesn't even talk to me aside from me trying to talk to him.

BUT......day to day living we get along really good. The four of us do family things each weekend. He just bought a new TV ($1600 widescreen tv) and talks about new things we can do to our house. But when reality hits and I bring up something like...can we do something different to help us...he totally becomes a different person.
There is nothing between us emotionally or physically.

Last week when he mentioned divorce I mentioned that I could start sleeping in another room until we worked things out. He said no. If we are living together then we'll be sleeping in the same room.

This is why I'm so confused. I understand his feelings I'm just confused as to why we can't try something new. He talks one way but acts another.

Please respond

LWH,

Ok got my wet noodle right here, going to give you a few wacks with it. But first you need to understand something.

There is a difference between trying to change HIM, and trying to change how he feels. You should be trying to change how he feels, and that is why say be honest about it. You want him feeling good, in love with you, in love with life, and feeling good about himself.

What you don't want to do is try and CHANGE him. Most people don't like to feel they need changing, and frankly will only do it when they are ready. The changes you have made and I hope there are some are because YOU wanted to make them.

As for your marriage, I would like to suggest that you didn't have the A because life was good with your H. Something wasn't right. I don't know what but people rarely risk everything for nothing.

Plus your H had an EA,suggesting he wasn't getting as much out of the relationship as he needed.

I think that one of the issues you need to address is WHY you had your A. The marriage wasn't so good for your H while your A was going on, and it clearly isn't very good now. Your H won't really recover unless he knows what happened and why. Otherwise, he is unlikley to gain confidence that this won't happen again. Without some idea that this is your last A, he is unlikely to want to come back.

As TMCM also said, if he hasn't filed then, you may be hearing more pain and less determination with regard to this action. However, something must change and I suspect it is your view of the marriage. I am not trying to make it worse than it was, but reasons are not excuses and therefore they should be sought. You need to know what broke and how to fix it. So does he.

I hope something I have said is of help.

God Bless,

JL

est, thanks for your post.

You gave me some good things to think about. We are going to be talking tonight. I will reread your post and think hard about what you said and about what all of you have said.

About 5 months ago I asked him if he wanted our marriage to work and he said yes. I think he did want it, however, I think he was not clear as to how we do that.

Now, when I ask him that he responds, I don't know.
Well my answer to that is if you aren't 100% sure, why not try counseling.
That's it guys. I'm really not trying to CHANGE his feelings. Just maybe trying to get him to FACE his feelings and see if he's talking through pain. Wish me luck on our talk tonight. Pray that something will get through to him just a little. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.

Hi LWH,

I'd back off on asking him to go to MC. I would continue to go to MC by yourself and work on making yourself the best that you can be... Hopefully, your H will decide to start going as well.

My thoughts are that your H is "testing" you to see what your committment is to him and the M by talking about D. He is probably feeling insecure and still has a lot of anger and pain that he hasn't dealt with and this is his way of "checking" on the condition of the M.

Give your H some time. Be patient with him when he talks of D... try to talk in terms of the future (even if his talk of the future doesn't include you). JL is right on target in that you need to start focusing more on the future and not the past. The past hurts your H... the thought of MC most probably scares your H because he will have to deal with the past...

If you haven't already read it, get a copy of Torn Asunder by Dave Carder and see if your H would be willing to read this book... it really helped me understand the thoughts and feelings that I had...

Wishing you both the best...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Just Learning,

EVERYTHING you say helps. So, Thank you!

I'm really trying hard to digest everything you all are saying. You are right. I have to figure out WHY I did this. I have been doing that in counseling. (i've been in counseling for 5 mths)
But the sad part is my H says that while he sees I have been doing this and making changes it hasn't made him feel any different.

Rebuilding in Faith--Thank you for your words. Please know that I have been trying to give my H space. But, honestly, it's been 10 months and after everything I am showing him..the end result is he is talking of D. I'm so confused. I just want to know what direction we are going.
"Testing me" what does that mean?????? "Testing me" what does that mean??????

Sorry that last line came through twice. Didn't mean for it to!

Hi LWH,

I hate to admit it, but before I really "dealt" with all of my W's A's, I would occasionally "test" my W's committment to me and the M. I'd say things like, "I don't think that this is going to work out... maybe we should just get a D..." I was committed to our M, but I wanted/needed to see that she was too.

I didn't mean to imply that he was testing you to see if you were faithful or not.

Eventually, I realized that I had LOTS of issues that I needed to deal with... Once that happened, we truly started rebuilding our M.

TMCM stated it best... what are your H's actions regarding all of his D talk? If he isn't taking any actions regarding D, then I'd bet that he's just trying to see if you're still committed to him and the M.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

It sounds like you genuinely want to save the relationship and he doesn't. While I have found much of the MB forum and books to be helpful in my own situation, my MC recommended the books by Michelle Weiner-Davis, since my WW was far more uncommitted to reconciliation than I. I recommend having a look at Divorce Remedy, or just go to the site:

Divorce Busters

Weiner-Davis has a lot more specific recommendations on how to save marriages when only 1 spouse wants to reconcile than MB, IMO. Do they work? Time will tell for me, but the techniques have definitely gotten a reaction from my WW.

Thanks..I just needed your definition of what you meant by him "testing me".
His moves toward a divorce....NONE.

He keeps telling me that he thinks he wants that. He's not sure. My continued answer to him is: IF YOU AREN'T 100% SURE WHY CAN'T WE TRY SOMETHING NEW. Is there anything wrong with that response???

That is why I wanted input from a male point of view. Why would you do that to your wife? Test her I mean. Help me to understand that. I don't know if that is what he's doing but I'm so confused at this point I don't know anything.

Testing....

Why are you here?
Can I really believe what you're saying?
Are you here for me or just this life?
How do I know you won't do this again?
Do you know how much I was hurt?
How much are you really willing to do for me?

and on and on. Any or all. Depends on the person.

The more it seems like you are trying to understand your H, the easier it might be for your him.

One thing I forgot to mention in my last reply was that, if he does want the marriage, would he be interested in a plan for recovery. If he really does want to marriage, there should be some aspect that will appeal to him. Perhaps your IC has soem suggestions for engaging your H in counseling? Again, if he doesn't want it, then you have a different set of issues to deal with.

Est has some great answers... for me, it was more of trying to regain a sense of "if she did it to me before and I thought that everyting was 'good', then what's changed to keep her from doing it again..."

I needed the reassurance that my FWW wasn't going to hurt me again.

Has your H ever asked any of the questions that est mentioned? Have you ansered them? If not, then that might be why your H is talking about D... he might just need more reassurance from you...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

sorry... double posted...

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Rebuilding in Faith 90 ]</small>

Thanks for explaining that. I do understand that.

I just feel more hopeless each day.

Plan for recovery? He doesn't know what he wants and I can't convince him to even try anything.

Should I just go with the divorce route and start splitting everything up??????