Take a deep breath, Mimi. Don't do anything rash. I don't think you should throw his clothes in the driveway YET.

You need to talk to Steve though. When is your next appointment?

Frankly, if I were in your shoes I'd do a little disappearing act. Go check into a hotel, come home after you expect him back. Let him wonder where you are. If need be take your son with you, or stash him someplace safe- with a friend or a relative.

Come back Monday night after work. Don't refer to his absence. If he asks where you were say you were freaked out by his unexplained absence and you were too upset to stay in the house on your own. So you had to check yourself into a hotel. A very nice one of course- you had to settle your nerves. Oh and the $$$$- well, too bad, if he was treating you with courtesy you wouldn't have to settle your nerves.

QUESTION: Does your state provide for a legal separation?

Give him a taste of his own medicine, Mimi. Let him come home to an empty house and wonder where you are!

Q:
I know I don't need to contact the OW. I'm just wanting to do something. I wish I knew where they are. Its good that I don't though. I might be in the newspaper tomorrow. I just can't imagine what my WS is going to say to explain this. He has not ceased to amaze me over this past month since D-Day. Everyday its something new.

I want to learn more about what your boundaries are and how you stated them to your WS.

<small>[ February 01, 2003, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Great idea about the disappearing act!!!! I hate the idea of him running me out of my house though. I don't like to stay in motels. Any other ideas?? I'm not ruling out disappearing though.

What about locking him out of the house? He does not have a key to the back door. So if he comes home on Monday he will have to call me at work to get in.

Yes. My state provides for legal separation. I think that's what might concern him. He would owe me alimony, child support and payment of the mortgage-quite a sum when you consider his desire for a nice new apartment.

<small>[ February 01, 2003, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi, this comes late, but hiking alone depends on where you're hiking. Very dangerous to go alone! you should always have a buddy and be well prepared for any emergency. Are you hiking just somewhere with a lot of people local,or going off into forest or wooded area?
Back to this OW! If he doesn't come home, why are you not driving by to see where she lives and if he's there?
How about asking him if he's having problems breaking it off, the two of you meet her together somewhere public, such as park, etc.
If he hasn't the guts to do it himself, help him tell her it's over!
There will always be an excuse to bounce back and forth as long as he's allowed to.
Well, if you won't do that, then I'd not depend on him for weekends. Instead, get a relative to keep your son, leave note for H where son is. And take yourself off for fun the whole weekend!
He obviously will know you're not doing much in the way of being with someone else if son is always with you. Try getting away by yourself or with a girlfriend. Even spend the night over at a girlfriends just to let him wonder where the heck you are and with whom.
It's always ok for the WH to wander, but let them think their wife is and watch how quickly they start staying around to see what you're up to.
BullS on sitting and giving this guy all the time in the world to make up his mind. If he really wants his family and marriage, it only takes one word to his little bimbo. It's called NOOOOO!
Sorry guys for those who have worked this plan A and sat endless days and nights giving these WS's all the time they want to play games.
Life isn't a game. It's here then it's over.
You're either in it or out.
This is like letting a kid do as he please and waiting to see if he'll keep the curfew, or give up drugs or alcohol on it's own. Would you allow your child to choose when they will do these things?
Ok,this A is an addiction. The way to give up an addiction is to go for help,and stay away from the drug. Running back and forth every few days will never kick the habit.
It has to be taken away forcefully!
I admire those of you who can do this and wait for months on WS to wake up. I couldn't do it.
The minute I found out about A it was over or out!
Sometimes you have to use tough love to get the job done. And this WH needs to either come home and stay or move out completely.
Mimi, you're letting him rob you! And your son.
GRRRRRR, sorry, guess I would do all the wrong things. But for me, I sure as hell do not want to wait to see if I am going to be secure in my marriage. It's now I expect the work to be done.
How do they make up their mind when nobody is giving them an ultimatum? Chose now!
He's got the best of both worlds. He needs to live in hers for a while to find out the grass also has weeds over there!Not run home to get his clothes done, and a few meals and relax, then go off and have fun some more with no responsibilities.
LouLou

Don't call her answering service. Probably it's not worth speaking to her, it probably won't help. If you were to speak to her it would only be to say that you love your husband, you are devastated by his actions and that you want your marriage. That will counteract any lies he's been telling her.

You could say- we've had our problems but we've been very close lately in all ways.

But since she's a single OW I doubt she'll care or that it will dissuade her. One advantage is that it blows the secrecy open. It makes it clear to her that you are a real person. But since she has met you it may not be necessary.

You only do it once and you must be polite and dignified. You can also ask her for information.
But what you will probably get lies.

Don't leave any messages on tape machines bad idea.

Don't you have any nice hotels in your area?

Given his most recent pattern would you expect him home Sunday night? Or would it be on Monday after work?

Your H is escalating his behavior, not working on cutting it off. Be prepared to be forced into Plan B. Also know that you don't want to be living with someone who treats you this way.

I am agreeing with you guys. I know that I cannot and will not tolerate another one of these weekends. Espoir, I do not believe that I can wait to talk to Steve. I heard LouLou's suggestions on what to say to him. What are thoughts, Espoir?

Last weekend was the first time that he waited until Monday to come home. When he came home, he said he wanted to separate but he did not proceed with anything according to my knowledge. However, since it is the end of the month and clothes are missing, maybe he rented an apartment. He may not have the balls to come right out and tell me. That will be a mistake because it makes things uglier between us; have to fight it out with lawyers since he is being so deceitful. Just yesterday on the phone, though, he said he was "trying to do the right thing". That's why this seems so crazy!!!!

I'm thinking I will need to put my foot down for him to make a decision between working on the marriage or continuing with her. He usually says "I don't know". I'm thinking that he does not really want to work on the marriage at all right now. I can't do it on my own.

My son and I will disappear if he is not home by noon. It's 11:21 PM here,late to leave. We mainly have roadside motels here. Would be nice if it was a big city.

<small>[ February 01, 2003, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

mimi,

This is normal. You are in 'coaster ride with him. My advice is similiar to Orchid's ... do nothing. What do I mean by that ?. Do nothing about the A or R talk. You are angry right now since you have expectation on him. Calm down, wait until you speak again to SH. For now, don't call him ... don't ask him ... don't move out or kick him out (you make it easier for him). Get a make over session ... change your appearance and go out w/ your gal freinds. Be distant from him. He will ask ... you should answer it with I & w/o angry tone at all. If I told you I would be with you but I didn't call and I go out with a guy ... what do I expect when I go home ?. Stop there and let him explain. If he starts a fight you just tell him that "I don't want to fight and I need to go out and could you watch the kids ? " .... left to your gal freinds house 'till late.

Your plan A is working !!! When WS is confused like this you made impact on him. Nobody say plan A is easy to swallow yet no body tell you to take these [censored] either. But learn how to talk back to the fog w/o LB'ed.

Never move out

Just my 2¢ -rh-

I know exactly how you feel. It was this kind of indecision that drove me to near emotional breakdown VERY VERY fast. A couple of things. Go to a doctor, try some antidepressants. They help more than you could ever imagine. While your at it, tell your MD what is happening and ask him to put you on disability because you are so stressed and so you won't have to deal with work and can get away without worrying about loss of all your income. I did all three of these and it made my life much easier. I then made reservations at a cabin in the mountains and went away for 4 days, told H I had to do some thinking.

When I returned I lovingly stated that I couldn't live like this. I was a wreck and I had 3 kids to take care of. He had been debating about separating anyway, couldn't make up his mind what to do. It drove me batty. Some may say I was whimpy, maybe I was, but I told him he had to make a choice. If he couldn't decide if he wanted the marriage, he needed to leave. I was very scared as well. Telling your spouse to leave, not having any idea if they will come back is the scariest thing ever. My kids were 6, 8 (multiply handicapped), and 13. Still, I knew if he didn't come to a decision to stay on his own, not because of what I was or wasn't doing, the marriage wouldn't last anyway. I felt I was better off getting used to being a single parent sooner rather than later.

He moved out,was here all the time and I continued to Plan A when he showed up. I went out and did the kinds of things Espoir is telling you to do. He got worried really fast. Here's an analogy for you. WS is like a child. Remember as a child when you had a new toy(BS) and it was wonderful and you played with it all the time? Pretty soon the newness wore off and that wonderful, great toy you loved so much got boring and you stuck it in the toybox. After awhile a playmate came over and found your beloved old toy and wanted to play with it. Oh boy, no way! You didn't want that person playing with YOUR favorite toy! Geesh they might just decide they wanted it for their very own. Well that's the kind of response WS has when you start building yourself up and are in social situations where you yourself just might meet someone shiny and new! I told my H I was going to Parents Without Partners support group. It doesn't take a mental giant to figure out what that group of folks might be all about. Can you spell LONELY HEARTS CLUB? Sometimes he thought I was going and I went shopping at Nordstroms instead! But it made him wonder and that was a good thing. It helped him come out of the fog faster and decreased the amount of time I was suffering.

When I told him that I thought it would be best if he left, I was calm and loving and tried to hold back my tears. I told him it was emotionally too much to live day to day with a man who I loved sooo very much not knowing from one minute to the next whether he was coming or going. I told him he had to leave to save my sanity and keep me stable enough to take care of our kids. I had already started Plan A as you have and he could see I was serious about wanting a better marriage even in the 4 weeks from d-day to when he moved out.

I always say a short, good Plan A is much better than a long, lousy one filled with LBs. I combined MBers with Dr. James Dobson's Love Must Be Tough . If you haven't read it yet, it's in most libraries. There's no one perfect way to go about recovering your marriage. Gather all the info you can.

Mimi, I honestly don't think your H want to get a divorce. If he did he'd be with OW a whole lot more already. Right now he has no consequences for his bad behavior. He's got OW and you are home being wonderful to him. There is no motivation for him to do anything different, especially when he's addicted to her and getting such a "high" from the affair and has nothing to lose at home.

From what you've said in your posts it doesn't sound like you were some horrible wife. You let your priorities get out of whack. How much Plan A is there to do? You've been showing him that you have it in you to change, he's noticed and you've stated it a number of times as well. IMHO there's not much more to do or he'll just keep taking advantage of the situation. I wish you all the best and offer hugs too! {{{Mimi}}}

I'm not at all suggesting move out; there's a difference between taking a break- going away for a night- and moving out.

however a roadside motel may not be the way to go. You aren't within driving distance of a city with someplace nice to go? Even if it's a long drive. You go away, your WH wonders where you went- make him wonder. You don't mention HIS absence at all.

It goes like- on the spur of the moment, I decided to take a trip to XXX. Would have called you but didn't know where you were. Left a note for you on the kitchen table- "son and I are shaking off a little stress- went to XXX- see you soon" Point is- you didn't even know if he was there on Sunday or not- you were GONE.

However a roadside motel will not achieve this. Only consider this if you can go someplace comfortable, even nurturing. No place nice- a B and B, a cute tourist town within 2-3 hour drive?

Mother Hubbard is right on. (MH, your story is so illuminating. And so helpful).

Mimi, You are fast reaching the point where you will have to disengage. Get strong inside, girl.

I agree that your H seems confused and has not really faced his choice. He obviously has his fears about OW. Otherwise he would park his car in front of her house, hell, he'd move in. I bet she's starting to put pressure on him. He's bouncing back and forth like a ping pong ball.

Just remember- when you draw boundary lines, you do it firmly, lovingly, respectfully. You can say, H- I don't like what this A is doing to you. You have become a liar and a cheater. That's not who you are and it's what you've become.

I said this exactly to my H when we were going through it. He couldn't deny. I told him I couldn't be around a liar and a cheater.

I only plan A'd for about six weeks. I don't think you have to plan A for a really long time. The key is that you have to be able to stand firm when drawing your boundaries. So make sure you are ready for that. You have to emotionally be ready to pack his bags and send him to OW.

Along the same lines as what Espoir told her H......my H asked me "If we divorce, can we still be friends?" I told him that I didn't currently have any FRIENDS that lied and cheated and betrayed me, so why would I start now? These WS actually think BS will suck this up and be their friend. Talk about FOG! When he realized he wouldn't have me as his friend, someone who he could rely on in hard times that made a big difference in his train of thought.

I think OW had told him that we could all be friends and that she wouldn't mind if he and I stayed on good terms. Well, I would have been civil but definitely would not have been his "friend". He could see by the things I was doing that I would move on without him and make a fine life for myself. He saw that I was dead serious and that I was getting strong and again that worried him. I was shaking in my boots but didn't let him see it. WS is just like a handful of sand, the tighter you squeeze the faster it runs through your fingers.

quote:
He could see by the things I was doing that I would move on without him and make a fine life for myself. He saw that I was dead serious and that I was getting strong and again that worried him. I was shaking in my boots but didn't let him see it. WS is just like a handful of sand, the tighter you squeeze the faster it runs through your fingers.

This is the correct way to bring them back home. Your Plan A is really not working. You are just using wishful thinking that it is.

He will respond much faster when you tell him you have done some thinking, and you have decided that maybe it would be best if he moved out and found his own place. I can not believe what some people put up with under plan A. Quit acting like a doormat.. Stand up strong. He will respect you for it. Quit letting other people tell you to do nothing.. take the lead here.. let him feel the full impact of his deeds.

People put too much importance on Plan A or Plan B.. What really counts is showing them you can and will move on without them, and as a matter of fact getting them to wonder if maybe you are happier without them.. Listen to the advice of mthrrhbard .
She is leading you in the correct direction to save your relationship.

I definitely am going in the direction recommended by Mthrhbbrd. I have to for sanity's sake and MY SON'S sake. I remembered how he told me yesterday before leaving that he was not planning to assist me in rearing him. That tells all where his thinking really is right not. I think I have been doing wishful thinking as you said KeepMvn.

Question though: From a MB' perspective, will I be continuing a Plan A while separated or will I go to Plan B ? I'm building up my strength to move quickly with this. I will be working on getting the legal separation tomorrow. He has gone over a very important line with me.

There is the possibility that he already has a place but has not told me. It's so interesting to me how worse he has gotten since D-Day. At least he used to try to be sneaky. Now it seems that he is being more hateful and trying to rub it in my face. What is the reason for this pattern? I know I always try to overanalyze but it helps me.

I'm already on antidepressants. They help me to be less weepy and I am sleeping better and functioning OK during the day at work. I continue to have problems eating.

Espoir: I don't have a place I can go that's close enough for me to get my son to school and I have no one really that can help me with that. I think conveying the attitude with him that I plan to go on without him if I need to will be more essential today or tomorrow.

I am remembering that even his BEST FRIENDS ,both of them, are telling me that I am a STRONG, SMART, BEAUTIFUL WOMAN (their words exactly) and that I deserve better. I have to stop buying what my WH is saying-that I deserve his maltreatment. This is really pulling me down, causing me to self-destruct. I've got stop this.

Thanks, guys.

<small>[ February 02, 2003, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

What are your thoughts about my last post at GIVING ULTIMATUMS? I guess I should have put it here but it was in reference to the previous posts there.

mimi,
i saw your plea,sorry for taking so long.yes dear,its time to pack up his stuff and set it by the front door.enough is enough.this is becoming a habit for him.i'm not saying your marriage is over.but it is too rutine now.he knows the weekends are for him and her.andyou've stood by long enough.it is time for him to make some decisions.setting boundaries is not LBing.its protecting your self.so pack him up.when he calls tell him its there for him to pick up.be prepared for him to actually come and pick it up and go.its a dangerous game.but you cant continue on this way much more.2 months is short to go this route but its the same as it was 2 months ago.nothing has changed.he is not making any effort to wake up so you will have to do it for him.you may win him back and you may loose him but its got to be better than what you are going through now.you cant spend the next month or longer just being a week day wife.perhaps knowing he cant come home througout the week will be enough for something to get him started on the return path.thats what you need.something to get the turnaround going.so far its been the same direction for him .
i feel for you.i remeber being at this same point.not knowing what to do next.but i just did what felt rigth.thats what you have to do.i made up my mind that i had enough.if loosing my wife was the outcome,it would hurt but had to be better than not knowing anything.and just a final note.for me it paid off.she got the wake up call and soon ended things.i can only hope you will be as fortunate.

Your WS is trying to provoke you into getting angry and throwing him out. Then he can walk around feeling sorry for himself and think, well, my W threw me out.

The key is to set boundaries, not give ultimatums. Your boundary is that you don't want to be around someone who's lying and cheating. Make sure to distinguish the behavior. Like when a child does wrong you make sure they know you don't like the behavior (how they are acting), it's not that you don't like them.

Your boundary can be, I'm not comfortable living with a liar and a cheater. You don't need to lie, you can move out and find whatever it is you are looking for.

As for the comment about your son, the response is simple. Your WH is responsible for his own relationship with his children. It's up to him if he's going to be a father to his children or not. It's his choice and he will have to live with his decision. Make it clear that you will agree on visitation times and WH must abide by those. Don't let him pop in and out when he feels like it. After all, you'll need a break from child rearing at times. Don't get in between your H and son. Let them figure out their relationship on their own.