I think the wife may have signs of menopause, maybe thats why she acts so differently these days. Boy, when they say, "look at the mother and thats what you will have in 10 years" is it true.

Her mother stopped it at 41. She says things like" I don't care what anyone thinks of me". or " If i had sex once a month that would be fine". WoW, all this at 42 years old. I wonder if menopause is sneeking up on her?. Or maybe the three kids just pushed her over the edge.

I worked my butt off for her to be home for the kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> and am wondering if i should have put them in daycare so she could get out in the world with adults.

If it dos'nt have anything to do with the kids. forget it. No vacations alone with her, very few dinners alone, sometimes us H feel like we are only there for the paycheck.

Just wondering if any of you 'Young at hearts" went through these feelings? Boy, what a ride,if she isn't going through it yet, I wonder what I'am in for. thanks for you help!

Have you asked your wife, how she is feeling?

There are so many urban legends out there on men-a-stop as my husband once referred to it.

I for one know being at home with children for yrs on end end can and will take its toll. Kids are tiring and kids are non stop. Just as you worked your butt off , trust me so has your wife.

Give her a treat and lots of them, help her feel like the woman she is. Pamper her, and if SHE believes she is in the throws of menapause, then a trip to her general practitioner may very well help . Dont just assume it is menapause a lot of things can effect the way we are feeling.

good luck!.

Wokeup, it is possible she is going through menopause or what is called periomenopause which is the beginning and can take years before it's post menopause.
I've heard some women go into it in early 40s and even late 30's, though unusual.
Usually it's mid 40's to late 40's,eaerly 50's.
Signs can be depression. Mood swings. night sweats, difficulty sleeping. Hot flashes. and also lack of libido! Anxieties, etc. Irregular periods. More often or less often. Go to Webmd.com and see if you can find info to read up on it. Or probably women's health would find you info.
I could give you worlds' of info. LOL I have been the route and tried the meds the doctors usually prescribe. Unfortunately, 80% of women put on the usual meds quit due to side effects.
I am fortunate to have found a book by Gail Sheehey titled, "Silent Passage". Pick it up at the Library! And found Women's international pharmacy through her book. They compound meds for many things, but the mmost wonderful one is for women for Hormone Replacement. I've been on it for years, happily so! I have a high libido, moods are better unless situations such as WH! But in the norm, I'm feeling great.
I found also, that their compounded med is not only better, but cheaper than the usual premarin and provera.
It gives better heart and bone protection due to it's formulation. While the usual prescribed provera with estrogen counteracts the benefits given by estrogen replacement due to the provera being added. That has to be though to give better protection against cancer risk from the estrogens.
I have none of the consequences of menopause on this med!
Thank God! One of my real benefits to hubby over OW. LOL She was not on anything and had been post for over 10 yrs!
If not taking a good med, women not only will lose libido, but won't even be able to make love in the usualy way due to vaginal atrophy. and can experience loss of bladder control due to the lack of Hormones.
Incontinence is a big factor with post menopausal women who won't take meds!
Sorry to be so explicit, but this is an adult forum and you ask and need all the info you can gather for your wife.
For any lady here who would like the info on the Oral Micronized Hormones, call 1-800-279-5708 and ask for a free packett of info. They will also send if you request it, a doctors infomative package and a list of doctors who are familar with the med in your area.
They also do other meds for many conditions with much success. Such as Arthritis and so forth.
Ok, this is about a book I've written. So if you need more info, just ask.
Go read up on menopause Wokeup. And see if it fits her situation. Could very well be. At least she may need anti-d's.
God bless, LouLou

Excuse all the misspells, I really can spell. LOL
Anyone wanting more info I gave the toll free number. Or write me at Winningdove@aol.com P.S. I am not associated with the pharmacy! I just know I'm a happy woman on their meds and have turned probably over 100 women onto it. They love it! So does my H. LOL After he finally decided to enjoy what he has!
God bless, LOuLou

thanks for the information, you sound like a doctor. I know she is acting strange, the other day on the ski slope, she thought she saw my small son and i hurt on the slope top. The man had two ski's stuck in the snow and was over a small child. She started to panic at the bottom of the slope. And was crying. We came down the left slope not the right. she was looking up the right slope.

This is highly unlike her, her mother is a nervous bug, so much, it effected her life negitively. She's affraid to do anything physical. She just had two daughters. My wife and sister-in-law.

But, I have noticed over the last few years, a personality, change. She's more like "don't tell me what to do" and "which shoes do you like"? black or white. i say white, she puts on black.

Other men tell me this is normal. But it scares me. When i look at her picture on my nightstand, and silently long for my old wife. What a change over 19 years. Thanks for the md advice, but to get her to a doctor is like pulling teeth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hello wokeup,
I have to agree with ladylou, I myself a'm going through the change. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It is terrible. Hot flashes,moody, hard time sleeping, u name it i seem to have it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Wokeup! It will take a FSH test to determine if your wife is entering menopause or perio! It's a simple blood test. There could be other factors as well, Not related to this at all. Sounds like depression could be the answer also. We go through changes all our lives.
Perhaps just getting some help with kids to give you two a chance for aloneness? Or perhaps help to give her a couple of days a week out. Does she work at all? I think you said you had supported so she could stay at home. That can be maddening in itself. Women lose their identity after a while and can come to resent it, or wonder who they really are. Just a bit of freedom from the day to day routine since it's a 7/24 job!

In the Dark_45? I am not familar with your story, but if it's on here somewhere, I'd be willing to read it and give any advice that might help.
First, if you are in periomenopause or going into it, are you on meds? If not, get on them. Use the phone number I gave to check out the Oral Micronized ones. I wouldn't change for all the money on earth! The usual prescribed by docs are really worthless and all types of side effects you will not be happy with. Including weight gain!
These I take are great with no side effects. Call 1-800-279-5708, ask for free packett to be mailed to you on info. And get going because it will effect everything about you. YOu can't handle other problems along with this if you're not feeling well. God bless, LouLou

Hormone Replacement Therapy is NOT the answer!!! Drs have been prescribing HRT for years, recommending that women stay on it permanently, based on the results of observational studies.

The benefits have never been proven in controlled clinical trials, and in fact, in the last several years, there have been 8 clinical trials, 3 which showed no benefit, and 5 that showed HARM.

The most widely publicized of these trials was the Women's Health Initiative by the NIH.

The results of that study showed massive increased risk in cardiovascular disease:

29% increase of incidence of myocardial infarction
41% increase of incidence of stroke
107% increase of incidence of deep vein thrombosis
111% increase of incidence of pulmonary embolism.

And there was a 26% increase in breast cancer.

These statistics come from the Journal of the American Medical Association, 2002; 288: 321-333

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v288n3/ffull/joc21036.html

The cardiovascular disease statistics should scare all women, because it is a little understood fact that while only 1 in 7 women die of breast cancer, 1 in 2 die of cardiovascular disease.

At the time of menopause, it has been shown that atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) begins to gallop, although symptoms are not noticable.

There are alternate treatments available for the various symptoms of menopause. HRT should not be used as a cardio-protective measure, but instead women should be treating their risk factors (ie blood pressure medicine for highblood pressure).

I work on the Women's Health Initiative of a large pharmaceutical company. This is a topic near and dear to my heart.

Wokeup...sorry to get so carried away on your thread! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 01, 2003, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: BrambleRose ]</small>

Bramblerose, you are right on some parts. The usual RX prescribed by Doctors is worthless. Oh it will help some symptoms. But not without the risk.
Now if you are in pharmaceutical, tell us about Oral Micronized Hormones?
Best in the world! And nothing like the crap most pharmaceutal companies make today.
The reason the studies proved it was no good, is because they had combined meds to lower the cancer risk of the estrogen. What they didnt' tell women was it nullified the benefits to the heart from the estrogen! So that is why the increase of heart problems because they weren't getting the benefits!
Benefits were cancelled by the progesterone given with it.
Oral Micronized Hormones are formulated from natural sources provided by Upjohn! They are not the CONJUGATED hormones you speak of.
You get the full benefit of heart protection due to the formulation that is far different than the premarin, provera and other similar (conjugated) products that most doctors give because they don't know of anything else to prescribe!They are totally in the dark as to these compounds. I have had to educate some doctors on the Med myself!
Tell us about the alternative treatments? Herbal?
Yeah, I know a few women who live on the herbal treatment. Will they help hot flashes? Yes! But the other consequences they have no effect on.
They will not stop vaginal atrophy and neither will just lubricants! Not unless they contain some type of estrogen replacement. natural estrogens are found in some plant products, but not the right kind for menopause and protection. In fact, they cause harm!
Incontinence? NO. Without the proper balance of hormones in the body which have to be replaced in some manner, the urethea is effected as well as bladder condition and other organs.
Are you menopausal? Are you post? What age are you and how many of the symptoms have you had and been able to control without replacements?
I can point you to many women who are afraid to try replacements. They do not have sex or at least no intercourse! Because they can't due to pain and shrinkage! They wet their pants frequently! Wearing pads all the time! Or depends!
They suffer osteoporosis terribly. Their heart and lungs aren't as healthy as mine! The muscle loss is tremendous also. Skin thins out, and so does hair. Why do you think younger women have none of these problems unless they've had hysterectomies? Because they still produce HORMONES!
I am 60 and I can pass easily for 40!
And I can go all night if my hubby wants to. LOL I want it more than he does with my good old replacement.
But I think I cautioned in my advice to Wokeup. Do not rely on the usual meds prescribed by doctors. They only know the kind Bramblerose is probably talking about. If you wish to gain info on the Oral Micronized, call the number I gave, It's free foR the asking and it contains all the studies done on these.
THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ORAL MICRONIZED AND CONJUGATED HORMONES.
Anybody tried to stop mine and I'd fight for them. LOL
Not afraid, not giving them up. And I know the consequences to those women who think they can go it alone!
Bramblerose, I can teach this material with great pride.
I know of what I speak, personally and academically.
Oh btw, for the men, go study up on Andropause. Women's International Pharmacy makes meds for men too. Your time is coming. '
Shall I sign now? Dr. LouLou

P.S. My GYN is surprised by my female organ health! Amazing what the right meds can do. Anyone that is close to or in menopause should definitely check this out and get all the studies just for the asking. You will be happy you did because the meds Bramblerose speaks of are really terrible. 80% of women who are put on those, quit due to side effects or no help.
LouLou

The sites you can check for anyone who wishes to find out more. I'm not associated with them. so Not an employee or kickbacks. LOL

http://www.womensinternational.com/

http://forums.obgyn.net/forums/womens-health/WHF.9810/0014.html

Oral micronized hormones are simply "natural" hormones instead of conjugated equine hormones.

Taking a quick look on PubMed showed me several studies that showed micronized vs synthetic HRT were either similar, or synthetic was the more effective.

It may be that micronized HRT is safe. But there are no clinical trials that I saw, showing that this is the case. Could you point them out to me if they exist?

The fact of the matter is that HERS, HERSII, and WHI, among many other trials, showed that HRT causes harm.

If you read the design of the studies, you'll see that that in the case of the WHI study - HRT was given to HEALTHY women.

BTW, the incidence of incontinence was shown to increase on HRT.

Why does it cause harm? No one knows. THAT question hasn't been answered. The theories that I have seen thrown around have nothing to do with natural vs synthetic, but rather that science does not understand the female body or hormonal cycle yet. Women have 7 (maybe more) hormones. It is currently thought that hormone levels are very cyclic throughout the month, and that it is possible that the harm comes in because estrogen and progestin need to be combined with other hormones or in a different dose pattern that better imitates the cycles of a premenopausal woman. Natural hormones do not do this any better than synthetic hormones.

You've made alot of medical assumptions about cause and effect that I just haven't seen made in the medical community or borne out in scienctific research.

And actually, women who smoke, and women with diabetes lose their premenopausal protection from heart disease. It isn't just about hormones.

The alternatives I spoke about are medications.

You don't need HRT for osteoporosis any longer. There are safer medications specifically for osteoporosis. You can take blood pressure meds, cholesterol meds, etc for heart risk factors.

What the guidelines say now is to treat individual risk factors, rather than take HRT.

The real fact of the matter is that no one knows if natural is safer. We do know that synthetic isn't safe, although it was assumed through observational studies that replacing a woman's hormones would be beneficial.

Unless you have clinical trials showing that micronized hormones do NOT increase the risk of heart disease and cancer...I'd highly recommend that you find other ways of caring for your risk factors and symptoms.

Bramblerose, You may obtain the studies on the Oral Micronized Hormones by calling 1-800-279-5708. Ask and it will be sent to you for free.
I do agree that the synthetic hormones are a nightmare! Horse Urine is not a desirable replacement for me. LOL
They cause numerous problems rather than giving the benefits touted by the Pharmaceutical companies.
To each her own. Those who do not want to replace with any type of Hormone certainly have that choice. Those who think herbal supplements give comfort, so be it.
I'd be interested in what alternatives you know of and how effective they are?
How many studies have been done on the alternatives?
For men as well. They lose muscle mass as well as need protection for the heart. Therefore, there are compounds for men as well through the pharmacy I mentioned.
Name some alternatives you've found to be effective and safe? We should give women here all the info we can. As well as men. If they're no there yet,they will be if given a long enough life here!
Order a packett from Women's International Pharmacy and ask the studies be included.
I would not take anything without the studies information to compare to other remedies.
As for Herbal remedies, there have been no real studies done on them until of late. With research showing they have no real benefits, and a lot of contraindications! They can cause a lot of harm especially if taken with some meds.
The truth is each person must read up and decide for her/himself what he wishes to do and risk.
I've found the risk versus the benefits of the right HRT to be far less than indicated on synthetics.
Ever read on an aspirin? If we read all the warnings on most OTC meds, we'd never take anything! And most RX meds will scare the hell out of people.
I shared the info because it's a great med with far less risk than the others.
Each person must decide which way they prefer to go. With or without meds!
I've tried both meds. And found the synthetics to be horrible with too many side effects and risk.
All I can say is I'm very grateful someone put the info out to the public to find about what I take! Not one side effect and only good success.
Fortunately, I had a doctor who knew about this and prescribed it over the other for many years. And hated insurance companies because they wouldn't pay for the patients med.But they will pay for the crap that is generally prescribed!
My first doctor, when I decided to try this, was a woman who'd never heard of it.
Then my GYN was delighted I ask for it as he'd known about it for years, but knew insurance wouldn't pay for it.
I have since had others who ask me to provide the info to them.
The managed care group has a woman in charge who finally came to me for all the info and is trying to educate the whole group on this med.
BTW, with the right information, I got my insurance to repay me for the first 13 months I was on the med and now they pay every month!
I fought for what I believed in, knew was better and had straightened out the problems I was having on synthetics!
I even went to Washington with my complaint! Now more women are getting a med they can live with and have insurance pay for it, recognizing the true benefits. Not all will pay, but many are coming around to giving the patient what they deserve!
I developed fibroids on the conjugated hormones. Excessive breakthrough bleeding, among other problems.
Switching to Oral Micronized not only stopped these numerous problems, but shrank the fibroids.
My 39 year old daughter will most likely need a total hysterectomy in the next 3 months.
The packett of info is already in the mail to her and for her doctor! This is what she will replace her hormones with.
If I didnt' trust it, I certainly wouldn't recommend it for my own daughter who is most precious to me.
I want her to be able to still enjoy health and a good sex life for as long as she lives.
For those who are confused in this debate, do what you feel comfortable with. Get the studies for yourself. And if need be, try going without anything for replacement. It is a controversial subject with many opinions.
Just remember, be aware, some problems you may encounter in menopause, over time, without treatment, will not be reversed after a period of time! That is the risk I'm not willing to take.
Your body, your decision. I'm happy and well with my decision.
I am not prescribing anyone do as I do. Just sharing my success and willing to see other women are aware of the choices.
God bless, LouLou

lADY LOU,
I had a hyst 3 years back my dr has tried me on several different things to help my hot flashes, nothing is working. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> See i can't go on any kind of herbs b/c of the meds i a'm taking for my seizures. They told me that basically i would just have to deal with it, and the hot flashes seem to be getting worse. I wake up several times in the middle of the night hot cold it is terrible!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
;wholey cow, what a discussion, thanks for your imput, I know the importance of good health care and have my primary doctor at a ivy league University Hospital. I know for a fact, Your chances of living a long and healthly life is based on the quality of health care you receive. Some of these MD's going on strike, should stay out.

A good quality MD is worth his weight in gold these days. Thanks for all the information, i will continue to research this topic. What medication do they give to men to get through their wifes menopause years LOL. Just kidding. god bless.

in the dark-Red.
These I take are great with no side effects. Call 1-800-279-5708, ask for free packett to be mailed to you on info. And get going because it will effect everything about you. YOu can't handle other problems along with this if you're not feeling well.
Call this number, then ask for a list of doctors in your area who know of this med. Take all the info about your history and current meds. See if they can help you. This med can be taken by some who can't take any other. I hope this can help you.
Yes, Herbs can be dangerous. And I forgot to mention something also.
If one has had, or has cancer now, or at high risk in family, even herbal estrogen replacement is highly dangerous. Cancer feeds on estrogens.
So plant estrogens are dangerous for cancer survivors, or those with it or high risk.
God bless and Hope you can take this other one. You can get an info packett free for doctors info to take to your own doctor. But one who knows is best and they have list for every state.
Got to run right now, but I'll be back later.
LouLou

wokeup! A good tranquilizer. LOL
Oh well, she's going to get through it anyway, with or without your sanity. LOL
Lot's of love and right meds and wife will be fine. First she must find out what she needs and what is her condition. Could just be depression.
God bless, LouLOu