Well, not surprisingly, H responded to my plan B letter. It was, what I would consider a typical response - full of anger, accusations, blame, and verbal abuse.

I got home late last night after a weekend at my Mum's for her birthday. It is so typically H - very angry, defenisve, still accusing me of all the ills in the world because of my affair and ruining his life for eternity and very contradictory to what he has said in the past. He also has the nerve of accusing me of running away from my responsibilities by not wanting contact, whilst he is still running around with Shiney Head and refusing to address the issues in our marriage.

He categorically states that he will never forgive me, does not want to spend time and money on councilling for something that can never be put right. It's funny to have that response to my letter which was so loving and heartfelt. He is pure acid at times, quote:

"Remember for the last year I lived with betrayal and humiliation of your mainly sexual exploits with OM, characterised by clandestine meetings in hotels, surrounded by lies and deceit." And "I don't want to be rude but it sounds like advice from the American website (no contact). It also smacks of the need for power and control over this scenario. Life is sometimes about taking responsibility and owning the plusses and gains. Your strategy sounds like an easy way out and this is not real life".

He also asks many questions, obviously egging me on to reply and get angry to his letter. I have decided to ignore it - surely that's what Plan B is about? I have however decided to get some legal advice about divorce and financial implications for H. He will never forgive me, nor will he address the serious issues in our marriage other than the affair - the list is endless, and frankly, I am not sure that this is a man I need or want in my life anymore.

Generally, I'm in good shape. It knocked me sideways this letter - as I say the anger etc. There was very little of any sort of "Yes, it is a sad state, I agree, but hey I want out". No kindness, no thought, just more of the same old same old - verbal abuse etc. but written. He even has the nerve to say we might bump into each other in the street, shops etc. and he might be with OW, so we have to be adult!!!!! He also asks whether I am cutting contact with the girls - he probably knows full well I saw one last week and plan to see the eldest this week.

My marriage is over, there is no hope, and however well I can cope that to me is still a very sad thing - although not to H - to H, I have wrecked his life and that is all that is important to hold on to. It is not worth addressing our past problems. Once again he is adamant that we have no future, and I accept that at face value.

There is also so much hatred in that letter, and I wonder if it is me he hates or himself and his inability to address anything, not even the pain of betrayal? He will have a very sad life.....I also believe that he wants me to feel bad about myself, and to live with regret and shame forever.

He says, "I'm sorry if there is still some anger. You had the affair, you are now sorry. I moved out (my choice), but ultimately I lose my home and stability. You still have considerable power to make me feel guilty for not carrying on, but I know how I feel."

Gosh, didn't realise I was such a powerful person - but H has always thought that I am the one with all the power and control in our R.

So, another day, another disaster. I don't want it anymore. I know some of you will say anger is a good sign, he still cares. But actually, I don't think the continual verbal abuse and blame is a good thing for me. It certainly drains my reserves. I also question whether I love this man. I don't think I do. He would have to change so much for me to love him again, and to work with him at building a future, and he is incapable and unwilling to do that. It is easier to justify what he is doing by holding on to his anger and pain.

Lisa

Hey Lisa,
You're saying it yourself- you're just doing fine. Look at the things he wrote: pretty contradictory if you ask me (like accusing you of not wanting to address issues, at the same time doing a runner himself). Leave him alone - if he jumps up & down, that's largely his problem now. Your hand is outstretched, he just has to take it. If he will take it, he (maybe both) have to bottom out his anger. If not, well, then so be it.
Nick

<small>[ February 03, 2003, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

LIL-

I'm sorry to read of his angry response to your letter. I agree 100% that there's no reason to respond and get into some tit for tat with him at this point as it wouldn't serve any useful purpose. Unfortunately, it seems as though he's been covering up all his feelings regarding your M with this OP and he's surely going to regret that decision. These sort of relationships where someone jumps in looking to ease the pain from a prior always end in disaster so don't be surprised if you get more of the same. I know it must be difficult for you right now but hang in there and know we're pulling for you. You've come such a long way and good things are in store for you in future...

Lisa - you are doing a good job with your plan B and it would make sense for your H to react with this angry response considering he's taken no responsibility for the state of your M prior to your A. Be strong and take care of yourself. He needs to consider his options and it's clear that he is concerned about his future and how to split the assets, etc. Let him think about it and don't respond at this point to the letter.

Thank you all for your kind and supportive words. You are all right in that I must not react to this. My first reaction was to pick up the phone and shreek down it "You bloody a**e - get a pigging life and stand up and be counted". Thankfully I phoned a friend and calmed down. It hurt too - as I say, my letter was heartfelt and sincere - his was angry and bitter.

Krisse, you are right picking up on the financial side of things and how this will affect him. I have always supported H and been the major wage earner. Even though he conceeds he has left me, he still moans about whether he will be "consigned to live in over priced rented properties for the rest of my life". Frankly, it was his choice. I think some of these things will definitely hit him as they become ever more of a reality.

Litchfield, yup, I think H wants that. He wants a response from me. He asks so many questions, and he knows that I hate it when he has the last word - don't we all!! I truly think he wants some reaction, because he can't believe I can be so calm about things when he is in turmoil. Of course his R with OW will bomb. How can someone so angry and full of rage move forward. But of course, he blames me "your comments have stayed with me and will inevitably affect all my future relationships." It is difficult, sure, but it becomes easier as I realise that this man is not the man who I loved, and who I feel it would be incredibly difficult to love again.

Absolutely Nick, absolutely. He can't see how far out I stretched my hand, but still bites it off. Funny, he talks about all my efforts coming several months too late. I really wonder if it had been several months earlier if we would be living together now working on recovery? Somehow I doubt that. But yet again, it is my fault. I didn't make the right efforts at the right time. There is no rationale about what he says. Do you also remember one defining moment where he came to me and said how painful it was, but he had finally accepted that what OM and I had was special a "oneness" that perhaps we had never had and not just about sex? Well, he contradicts that big time too. In fact, most of the entire letter contradicts something he has said previously.

I do feel sad that our M wasn't allowed the chance to work, that he didn't want to take that chance. But I also feel positive. I have learnt loads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I wish I hadn't had to learn the hard way, but I do believe one day I will be a better person. I am also incredibly sad that for poor H, he won't find the peace that I will.

Thank you again everyone.
Lisa

LIL-

I feel as if you and I are going through the same phase of our recovery right now. Be strong, hold your head up, and know that you are going to exceed your own expectations.......

You are handling this situation as a "TRUE" adult. Your H will eventaully take his fall, just as we did. Hopefully then he will appreciate what you tried to do in the end.

Lisa,

Give Plan B a chance. At least a few months, before doing anything, OK? You are seeing alot of anger, but that isn't that unusual. One thing you should try to avoid is painting him into a corner.

I mean putting in a position where he really has to "eat crow" to come back. I think no response is probably good for right now (it is plan B right?) but I also think that eventually you will need to talk.

His affair will flame out at some point, then see. So a simple steady as she goes seems appropriate.

Your decisions will become obvious and they shouldn't be made out of pain and disappointment any more than his should.

God Bless,

JL

Hi Lisa,

I am an old poster with a new name. (I have previously replied to your posts). I am so sorry for the response your H is giving you. You have tried so very hard to show him how sorry you are for what happened and he just can't seem to move beyond his selfishness to realize that he, too, contributed to your having the A. As I previously offerred, I would welcome the opportunity to visit with you offline. You have my e-mail or you can e-mail me through this board.

LiL-

I am WH and my W Plan B'd me without a letter and as much as I didn't "like" the fact that the process wasn't accompanied by a "letter", I have honored her wishes and have come to "enjoy" the fruits of such separation. Her Plan B has allowed me to Plan A myself and truly, for once in my life, continuing on healing me without hinderance.

Kudo's to you for following thru on your Plan...stick to your guns and don't fire! Unfortunately, it does not appear as though your H is willing to forgive and focus on himself (not that one precludes or pre scribes the other)...stay focused.

Godspeed!
S

Lisa,

One aspect of Plan B is "no contact". You probably should refrain from reading his letters and emails---especially if they're going to drain what love you have left for him. Plan B is to protect this for enough time that the affair will end.

Lisa,
I think you are doing amazingly great, and I'm proud of the fact you did not jump on the baiting of contacting him after he sent you back the angry reply.

Even though I am the BS, and in plan B. My WS did not even reply to my modified plan B letter, which I did not expect him to as he is well caught up in his own version of everything that has absolutely nothing to do with reality. The similiar parts of our mates is that they throw so much anger our way..... I heard from someone in family that I'm blamed for everything and that I am brainwashing people and have mind power over them!!! OK...that is rational thinking. lol

Also, mine appears to be the martyr because his choice of having the A was not his doing, it was mine. uh-huh. He refuses to reach out and he knows that no matter what I would have had least been his friend, he is the one cutting his nose off to spite his face. He thought his fantasy was going to happen at an instant, she would leave her marriage, they would live happily ever after. His anger comes from his distorted view that I have prevented that from transpiring because it did not go the way he thought it would, so his anger is justified. He feels I was treacherous and made him suffer. Now remind you, I did not have an A, so if I am receiving that much hostility on things not of my making, it would appear to me that his feeling of anger, resentment, frustration are of HIS own making because he has to look at himself now, since I'm not in the picture and there is absolutely NC. If he felt nothing about me or not having moments of clarity, then he would have no feelings one way or another Lisa for me, as in your case also. They can say anything they want, sling "crap" all the way across the world, but it does come down to what they feel is the part of themselves they view at times that make them disgusted about themselves. But being human, it's soooooo much easier to blame someone else for your own misery.

Needless to say, I'm proud of you and know you are in my thoughts. It's time your H realizes what it is he truly needs to take a look at and it has nothing to do with you now, maybe in the past....BUT not now!!!! Stay strong and healthy, and keep us updated, I feel he will make more contact as you are not responding to his snare. That will bug him the most!!!! good work Lisa.

Hi Lisa,
I am very sorry that you are in such pain. I am sorry he feels he needs to cause it, and I believe that is what he is doing - to get back at you.

I could go point by point through what he said, and what you said about it, but I think you will get it from just these few lines.

1. He was hurt, he wants to hurt you back.
I don't know if he realizes it, or if he really believes what he is saying. It seems to me that he is not rational, or logical in what he is saying to you, so I think you can just ignore it.

2. It worked.
He hurt you. I don't know how it could fail to hurt if you really love him, and I believe you do. If he was rational, that would be an interresting discussion to have with him. What he said could only get to you if you loved him. So if what he said was true, it wouldn't have meaning for you. Since it is false, it hurts a great deal.

3. You can't change him. True, you can sometimes love someone enough that they see the truth and change themselves, but you can't make a blind person see, and you can't make him come to you.

4. You have done what you could do to right the origional wrong.
I know you sometimes still have guilt. That is good for us if it makes us change and repent. I believe you have changed and repented and are still improving. We need to remember our past to keep improving our future, but we don't need to suffer for our past forever. Someday, you will heal from all of this, you really will.

I agree with others that you ought to continue with plan B. If it was me, I would probably do one more short note, something like this.

Dear H,
I am sorry you are so hurt and angry over my letter. It was intended as love letter. I wanted to say I was sorry. I also wanted to let you know what needed to happen for us to ever get back together, that is all.
After reading how you feel, I can see that I was correct and no contact is probably best for both of us. From now on, I won't answer your communications unless you want the marriage, and are ready for conseling etc.
Love Lisa.

As I said, this is probably what I would do, but I am not Lisa. I am not hurt like you are hurt, and I can't feel what you feel.

You know what he says is not true, and even though you are hurt, you know you will recover. You know that, because you can see how far you have come from the beginning of this whole mess, and you know you have it in you to get through this one too.

Lisa, we care about what happens to you and how you feel. Have some faith in yourself just like we do.

SS

Thank you all for your kind and supportive responses. It all gets so ugly sometimes doesn't it? How I wish I could turn the clock back.....

SS - One of the things that keeps me going is knowing how much everyone does care. I also appreciate the words of support that I have done OK. Sometimes I think I could have done more, and one thing H said was that in his opinion my effort had come several months too late - he has a point. Yes, you are right, I still feel guilty, and H's letter was in part designed to do that - he still feels bad, why shouldn't I? But of course, because I know how far I have come, how I have changed and addressed everything that has happened, I will end up in a better place. I truly already feel that I am in a better place, but sadly, I don't think that will happen for H.

Thank you for your four points - with all the hurt and upset, you sometimes loose sight of the most fundamental things - you have hit them on the head.

Oh Neesha - of course you have all that power - you are brainwasher extraordinare - devious and oh powerful being <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> How bad is your H's fog!!!! You write so well, and sum up so accurately what's happening in my situation through your own. I guess the major difference is of course that I did have the A. But that is long past and done. Was I not worthy of another chance? No, and now I am responsible for everything wrong in H's life. He will become a very sad, bitter, twisted man if he does not try to address himself. Truly, I'm not doing so badly, don't worry!

K, thank you for the reminder. Yup, probably shouldn't have read it, but I guess I hoped there may be some sort of something in there other than pure anger and accusations. Also, the ever popular reminder, H does not see what he is doing as wrong - I was the one that had the A, we are now separated, he can do what he likes. I don't think this view will ever change.

Shakespeare - no, I don't think he will forgive me, because you are absolutely right, to do so would mean some very painful self examination. Don't worry, have put the firing gun down! For me the best course of action is to do nothing for now.

Thank you Lost Girl - I think I know who you are, I guess you changed your identity for a reason. I will try the e-mail address. Thanks for your support.

JL - I always listen very carefully to what you say. From the very beginning you have given me sound advice. I only mean to consult a Solicitor just to find out some more information and what my position is financially. It does not mean I am going to file because he wrote me a stroppy letter - oh yeah, of course, that's what part of me did want to do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> This Thursday it will be 4 weeks since I have seen or spoken to H. It will also be his birthday. I intend to do nothing. Next Tuesday I go on holiday for 2 weeks (yipee, Thailand <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and then, when I come back I will think again. My intention was that either way, reconciliation or divorce, we should talk directly. Sadly, I think it will be about divorce because H's decisions are coming from pain and disappointment, and nothing, nothing I can do will change that.

Kily, thank you for your support. I know things are so hard for you right now. It seems we get to a certain point of feeling that we can manage, we can do this, we have our calm, and then they come along and give us a good kick in the gut. But you are right, for once, I am behaving like an adult. This goes against the grain for me, but I am doing the right thing. I know that H will think I am being childish not responding, and I know he will be hurt that I do not acknowledge his birthday on Thursday, but this is the way it has to be for now. Look afer yourself too.

Thank you again to everyone.

Lisa

Yes, Lisa, I do believe you know who I am and, yes, I did have a very good reason for changing names...willing to explain offline, but suffice it to say I will no longer post under the other name.

You are so strong and doing so very well. What you need to keep drawing upon is that you have thoroughly examined the cause of your actions and taken all the right steps to change everything over which you have control. What you don't have control over is your H, who IMHO is being very childish and unwilling to look past the fact that he was hurt. He, too played a role in everything that has happened and, quite frankly, reading your posts about the way he behaves sometimes.... He seems to be dwelling on the whole situation and hoping that something about it will change if he gets angry enough. Bottom line - we can't change the past, as much as we would like. Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.

I think it is wise to visit with a solicitor to find out the "what ifs." It does not mean you have to make any decisions about D right now - just get the information and know your rights. DO NOT let him take advantage of you.

Regards,

1lostgirl

Lost Girl

Thanks for your words. I know I have tried, but sometimes I slip and doubt, and that is partly because of what H says and how that makes me feel - like I am scum, did the worst thing imaginable, will I ever be free of it again!

Interestingly, someone said to me today about H "pushing my buttons", and you know, he always has had the ability to do that, and that is very childish, and ties in with his behaviour. I would never try to under-estimate his pain, or what he has been through, but so many people are willing to forgive, to move forward, to work towards a better future. You are so right, I can't change the past, and H does not want to move to the future. It is so very crushing to think that my inevitable gain will be his very sad loss.

I have mailed you mystery woman - hope I got it right! If not, someone else may get a bit of a surprising mail!

Lisa

You got my identity right and I have e-mailed you back.....

Lisa - so sorry that your H responded like this. You know I think that regardless of BS or WS people do tend towards certain reactions in certain situations and your H is IMHO just trying to push your buttons...

sad to say he would seem to prefer to be right in his own mind (and unhappy, angry, vindictive) than married...

Stay strong and

don't forget to smile because you are you

bowd

Bowd, it is so funny you say that - you said it to me - do you want to be right or married. Being right wasn't important to me, knowledge was about H's lies, but for him, being right is oh so important. How very very sad that is....

LG - no mail yet, I wonder if it got lost?

Lisa

Lisa,

it's something I read on here and it stuck such a cord with me: it is so easy to feel - in any circumstances where one feels one has been unfairly wronged - that the most important thing is to prove that one is in fact right...

trouble is situations always appear different when looked at from a different perspective or through a different lens and so we can rarely convince someone else so trying only causes more angst.

But I still have to remind myself of it often <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Lisa,
I haven't responded for a few days , but I've read your thread. I hate to be unoriginal, but I must repeat what our friend JL said here--on your thread,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Give Plan B a chance. At least a few months, before doing anything, OK? You are seeing alot of anger, but that isn't that unusual. One thing you should try to avoid is painting him into a corner.

I mean putting in a position where he really has to "eat crow" to come back. I think no response is probably good for right now (it is plan B right?) but I also think that eventually you will need to talk.

His affair will flame out at some point, then see. So a simple steady as she goes seems appropriate.

Your decisions will become obvious and they shouldn't be made out of pain and disappointment any more than his should </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As my British friend used to say , "Steady on."
And how wise JL is--especially the part about your decisions shouldn't be made out of pain or disapp., any more than his should. Think on that--he's so right!!

This is so, so true. Just hang on, don't give up yet. I truly feel this R of his...this A ...will fizzle out in no time at all. Don't give him fuel to justify that he was right, in leaving you.

Take care over there in foggy London,
H_P