I have debated whether or not to post this, but I owe to you guys to be straight up about things. Please don't get out the 2x4. I know what the right thing to do is. But, I have to get this of my chest in some way shape or form or I will go crazy.

In reality I am surprised that this did not happen sooner. Too make a long story short I have feelings for someone else. It gets worse though. The OW is my best friends GF. We have talked quite a bit during this whole mess. She went through a similar situation with my best friend. He cheated on her and then lied about it. Once it was out in the open he promised NC but lied about that. She has kept in the relationship and they are trying to get past it. So, we have empathized with each other. We know how it feels to be betrayed. These feelings started out as friendship but now I feel more than that towards her. She is a bright, honest and a very caring person.

OK guys, I know this is wrong or at the very least ill timed. I am trying to get this out of me. It has been torturing me for some time now. I feel like I am being sucked into a vortex. I won't deny my feelings but I question the root of them. Did they come out of neediness or not? I assure you this is the LAST thing I went looking for. I told my W but I did not name names though. This was done in the last counseling session. I told her that I sort of knew how she felt because I have feelings for someone else and that it was because they have given me the attention that I need from her. She said nothing in response.

So right now, W knows, OW doesn't know, best friend does not know, and I am stuck with this mess in my heart and mind. I know I must let things run their course. If it is meant to be, it will be. I posted some time ago that "True love is patient. True love does not push for the destruction of a M. True love is just that, true." In this case I would insert the word R in there instead of M. I just need some words of wisdom here to keep me on the right path. Thanks. This really came out of nowhere and has broadsided me.

<small>[ February 08, 2003, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Luki ]</small>

Luki:

You've been around, so you know the answers to your questions:

"So right now, W knows, OW doesn't know, best friend does not know, and I am stuck with this mess in my heart and mind. I know I must let things run their course."

Good that you told your W. Good that OW and BF don't know. I'll tell you what I have done when I've been attracted to OW in the past. NEVER TELL THEM about your feelings. EVER. These feelings will fade. They did for me, even to the point that I can work with one of the women and not feel anything inappropriate for her. You can do this, too. I think you need to get the idea that you might be able to hook up with your BF's GF if things don't work out with your W OUT OF YOUR THOUGHTS. If you don't do this, you will hobble your chances at rebuilding with your W.

-Qfwfq

Luki:

Oh, and I forgot: I reserve the right to wield the MB 2x4 at my discresion. Sorry! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-Qfwfq

Luki,
Well you got it off your chest, now get it off of you mind, and anywhere else it has strayed or is thinking of straying to at least until whatever happens with W happens. What you about the vortex, that was revealing because now you understand more than you ever did about "The How's of WSs", Remember how many posts you have read about it seemed outta of WS control, that it was like being swept up into a vortex? Uh-huh. Luki, I'm not 2x4ing you.....please, I like baseball bats myself.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . The point is this, I bet if everyone who was a BS here, me included even so much as ventured enough out to become emotionally connected with someone going through the same experiences that we are or were, of course we might get swooped up in having feelings. But the difference here Luki is that you are letting it become a romantic energy buzzing around you. Your connection is based on both of you suffering because of affairs, take that commonality out of the picture and then ask yourself, would I have even been thinking these things had this not happened to me?? If so, then Mrs Luki would have been here posting and we would have not met you. Do you understand my point?

well, you know the drill. You have to back off, finish the marital work one way or another. The ow should do the same, but is a little trickier cause you don't know how she feels (or how you feel) about you/two. The difficulty in establishing (even if no real action taken) a pursuing relationship is that you cannot be sure if you are leaveing someone for another (or they you), there has to be a line of demarkation, no gaurantees, when resolving a current relationship. You have to stay or end/stay one totally on it's own merits, on your own, otherwise any future relationship (whether continuing the marriage, or leaveing for someone) is tainted. You have to accept the risk of nothing, otherwise you are hedgeing your bets, and really don't know what you want. Is not easy to do, and part of life, knowing that something can work differently with another is a powerful thing, but you can do it. Stop seeing, talking to the ow, and resolve your marriage on it's own merits. I think it is ok to tell the ow it is time for you to focus on that, and feel it best not to be communicating anymore about this, and that she really should do the same. She will feel whatever she feels, and act independently of you. If there is a future with her, it will happen when you are both psychologically free to make such a choice....and that applies whether it is her, or another woman in the future. You don't want anyone leaveing someone for you, that is a recipe for disaster, and an indicator of someone who is not emotionally healthy.

Oh, LUKI!!!
Please heed our advice before going into the FOG!
You don't want to lose your BF do you??????
Talk to us, commiserate with us, vent to us.
You know in your head what you have to tell your heart.
Write a NC letter to yourself. Take her phone number out of your life. Everytime she is around, make sure your BF is, too.
Please, Luki, stop and think - clearly.
DB

Luki-

She is a safe harbor...that is all. Please do the right thing for yourself, your wife, AND YOUR BEST FRIEND!

You know what type of pain this has caused you....do you REALLY want to do this to someone else?

Thanks for trusting us.....

Mr. Pepper has a sponsor, and he is a sponser for 3 other men. This is AA sponsorship. The men talk to each other about these very issues that concern you today. It is beyond inappropriate for you to share your deep feelings with a female. (and plane old dumb too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )That is EXACTLY how Mr. Pepper's A started. They shared secrets and worries.... which led to further intimacy.

GET MEN FRIENDS to talk to .... or else, MB 2X4 whomp against your dear sweet head .

Luki, letting things run their course is asking for trouble! The only course you run is repairing the damage to your marriage and that means dumping the feelings for OW or her BG.
You are allowing your imagination to get out there and fantasize, like most WS's!
Time to stop it is now! Don't you just know we could all fall into attraction to OP if we allowed ourselves or put ourselves in the situations to make it happen? BACK no one is more important than the marriage and spouse.
And you won't ever get recovery going on a straight path as long as you entertain these feelings.
It's called daydreaming! Shake yourself back to reality now.
Sheesh, I'm sure there are tons of men out there I could just fall bonkers for. If I allowed myself to. But I love My H, and he is the WS who has hurt me terrible.
After all was said and done, he now carries guilt and feels like he lost his mind.
Quit looking around for greener pastors and weed the one you're in!
LouLou

Well I wrote huge long reply and it was eaten when I posted so here we go again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can do this, too. I think you need to get the idea that you might be able to hook up with your BF's GF if things don't work out with your W OUT OF YOUR THOUGHTS. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that is what must happen and I have tried, but it is easier said than done. More is explained below

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your connection is based on both of you suffering because of affairs, take that commonality out of the picture and then ask yourself, would I have even been thinking these things had this not happened to me?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have asked this question over and over and over. I can not seem to answer it consistenty. I think I have to stop asking this question because it is driving me crazy. I can't say this connection is not based on mutual suffering but I can't say that it is either.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The difficulty in establishing (even if no real action taken) a pursuing relationship is that you cannot be sure if you are leaveing someone for another (or they you), there has to be a line of demarkation, no gaurantees, when resolving a current relationship. You have to stay or end/stay one totally on it's own merits, on your own, otherwise any future relationship (whether continuing the marriage, or leaveing for someone) is tainted. You have to accept the risk of nothing, otherwise you are hedgeing your bets, and really don't know what you want. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly. You understand exactly!!! I could not have said it better myself. I am at a crossroads.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please heed our advice before going into the FOG!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm trying, I am struggling with if it is fog or not. My mind is buzzing with the question of whether this is friut of a poison tree or not. I can't seem to answer that question yet.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She is a safe harbor...that is all. Please do the right thing for yourself, your wife, AND YOUR BEST FRIEND! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is beyond inappropriate for you to share your deep feelings with a female.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, but my Taker is alive and kicking here. If it was not for my best friend I probably would have acted upon these feelings by now. They are that strong. I have guy-friends to talk to but when she calls, I melt. I have been emotionally beat on so long I cannot help but feel the way I do, inappropriate as it is.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Quit looking around for greener pastors and weed the one you're in!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am so tired right now. I have been able to summon the strength before but I have not been able to for the last month or so. Then this came along.

I never meant for this to happen. I never went looking to betray my best friend. I see more than two paths here and that makes it complicated. If thier R goes south I could be in real trouble. I am going half way round the globe in a week and a half for a two week trip. There will be no way for me to contact her and vice-versa. I hope that will help bring clarity to these emotions. Can you tell I am a tortured soul right now?

I sure there are lots of contradictions here but that is where I am at. My W has flat out refused to stop the A so she can make a decision, our counseling is at a dead end, and my love for her is almost gone. I am not trying to argue with you guys, just telling you how I feel. It's just a very confusing time right now. I see three paths I can take. One of them is a no brainer not to do, the other two have various levels of consequences. I need to clear my head before I can speak to them. This really came out of left field. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Luki:

"I never meant for this to happen. I never went looking to betray my best friend. I see more than two paths here and that makes it complicated. If thier R goes south I could be in real trouble. I am going half way round the globe in a week and a half for a two week trip. There will be no way for me to contact her and vice-versa. I hope that will help bring clarity to these emotions. Can you tell I am a tortured soul right now?"

Yes, we can tell!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Let me ask you this: Is there any reason you can think of that the R would NOT go to hell in a handbasket, because of the deep betrayal of yourself, your W, and your BF that starting one with this woman would entail?

You're in a plane, the wings just flew off, and you're about to go into an unrecoverable dive. But you've got a chute. Use it, and use it BEFORE you're descent is to fast for the thing to work!

-Qfwfq

Just my two cents but you need to take all of these posted responses. I was the recipient of my BF having an affair with my W and it has been horrible. We are now divorcing because she will not work on our M. Now how would you feel if you were somewhat responsible for a broken marriage. Sure the glitz and glamor of something new is there but when that where's off then what will you have... a trail of broken hearts. Take it from me, I tried reasoning with BF especially since there are young children involved; no chance. He just stands there and trys to make excuses like "You know you two were having problems, It just happened, We never meant to hurt you...YADDA YADDA YADDA." It is horrible. My life is in a virtual meat grinder. Please consider your situation carefully and weigh the consequences because there will be several broken hearts left behind.

try this first!

When Satan comes knocking at your door just simply say
"Jesus will you get that for me? "
LouLou

I was starting to really freak out so I went and worked out during lunch hour. It's amazing what 40 minutes on a mind numbing treadmill will do for you. It makes you focus within yourself and that's what I did. All the responses I received were thought about and I have come up with this approach.

I will try my best to back away from the cliff. I can't guarantee you that it will be a complete withdrawal at first but I'll try. I will limit contact with her to when my best friend is around. If she calls, I will talk to her but only as a friend. I am not going to worry about them breaking up while I am in this romantic state. No sense worrying about something that has not happened yet, right? I'll come running to this forum if that happens. If OW and I are meant to be together, it will happen, but not now and not under these circumstances. She deserves to be in a relationship that begins in trust, not turmoil.

That is the best I can come up with. I'm sure I will need some encouragement along the way. This is not going to be easy, esp. when I am in an unplanned Plan B with my W. This loneliness is unbearable at times.

FeelingAllAlone, thank you for responding. Although they are not married I'm sure the feelings would be the same. Your post was a reality check for me.

Yes, this will be hard but you've been doing a lot of hard things lately and doing them well. You can do this, too.

Is this the same friend who has been giving you advice about your wife? And she doesnt' know about your feelings for her?
DB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is this the same friend who has been giving you advice about your wife? And she doesnt' know about your feelings for her?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She and my best friend have both helped me through this. Lately our conversations have gone to other things. Her dad walked out on her, my dad walked out on me, though much later in life. She has been betrayed, I have been betrayed... We do think alike, and that is no fog talking. Hence the struggle to come to grips with this. No, she doesn't know how I feel.
-Luki

<small>[ February 04, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Luki ]</small>

Luki-

Plain and simple-

Do you want your Marriage back? Yes or NO.....

Do you want to result to the same sctions that your Wife chose? Yes or NO.

Answer these two questions.

Proceed from there.....

Okay Luki. Brace yourself. Ol' Qfwfq has that MB 2x4 ready for the first swing!

"I will try my best to back away from the cliff"

Not good enough. Don't try to back away from the cliff. BACK AWAY FROM THE CLIFF, AND DO IT NOW, and nobody gets hurt!

"I can't guarantee you that it will be a complete withdrawal at first but I'll try."

YOU need for YOU to guarantee yourself a complete withdrawl RIGHT NOW. THE FIRST TIME.

"I will limit contact with her to when my best friend is around. If she calls, I will talk to her but only as a friend. I am not going to worry about them breaking up while I am in this romantic state. No sense worrying about something that has not happened yet, right?"

Oh yes there is! You have told us you have feelings for her and you don't know if you can control them. The red flag is UP. HEED IT.

"I'll come running to this forum if that happens."

It will be too late then.

"If OW and I are meant to be together, it will happen, but not now and not under these circumstances. She deserves to be in a relationship that begins in trust, not turmoil."

This is correct. Not now, not unless and until BOTH your and her relationships have been over and stone cold for a suitable period of time for healing.

-Qfwfq

kily and Qfwfq,

I needed those posts. Thanks(I think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

To answer your first question, kily, the answer is: "I don't know anymore."

To answer your second question, the answer is definitely, no.

Put these together and it sounds like Plan B for me. I can't hang on any longer. I must let things run thier course now; Between me and my W, between OW and best friend, and between OW and myself if there is even a course to be ran there.

I will go into Plan B, letters and all, in full after I return from my trip abroad. It will be painful. I will not be able to see our cats or anything. But, it must be done. Time to let go.

Am I reading this right? What do you think?

-Luki

<small>[ February 04, 2003, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Luki ]</small>

Luki:

All but this statement made me feel okay:

" I must let things run thier course now; Between me and my W, between OW and best friend, and between OW and myself if there is even a course to be ran there."

But as long as you wait for OW and BF to be "done" with each other, assuming they ever will be, beforee you let things between her and you "run their course" then you'll be okay. The key point I want to make is that you need to keep in control here. Don't just let things happen.

My W said to me several months ago that "you don't choose who you fall in love with. It just happens." Bull feathers. Love is very much a choice. What she described was a lack of control over her infatuation, which was fleeting. Instead of refraining and letting the feelings subside, she acted on them. The result is that RM's 15-yr (or so) M and family is broken apart now, and our 27-yr M would be too if I hadn't found MB last Februrary. It's that simple. And that dangerous.

-Qfwfq