Could I be right in thinking that my wife does not want to go to counciling, or talk about our R because she is or was having an A, and she thinks that I don't know about it? If you have read my other posts then you know that our R has stunk for the past 6 months. No affection, no SF, no nothing. She has been home the last week, and I think I notice a slight change to the better. But I'm wondering if this would be the main thing to keep her from working on our M. Her not wanting me to know about the A.
What do you ladies think?

Simple answer: YES.

I'm not a woman, but here's my unsolicited thought.

The A is something W wants to keep hidden for whatever reason. Part of her would want to come clean, but the "fear" (of whatever it may be) is stronger.

Things that encourage openness and honesty (i.e. counseling) would be things W will try to avoid. It would mean "changing" or having to tell.

One common rationalization for an A is that the M is unfixable. If it turns out to be fixable then, oops! A was a cop-out. People hate being wrong or feeling bad about themselves. So the longer she can keep up the justifications for the A, the longer she can avoid the guilt and other related feelings. So yes, avoiding revealing the A could be a main reason for not wanting to work on the M. But it's most likely that there are other big contributors also - reasons related directly or indirectly to A.

Anyway, that's one possible outlook on all this. Good luck figuring out how to bring this out into the open. Until that happens, there's a big roadblock on the road to recovery.

Thank you est, thats what I'm kind of thinking, it sure would be nice to get some comments from you nice ladies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Bilbo, I think if she refuses to go for counseling, or open up, it's because of much guilt and may still be involved with OM.
I believe in bringing it to the fore, because as long as she can keep her secret or thinks it is, she will not wake up and smell the coffee!
I think the same for WH's. They do as long as they can get away with it.
Just letting her know you're aware may bring her to admit it and start to break it off.
Perhaps she feels no guilt as long as she thinks it's a secret. That was how it was with my WH.
Soon as I found out and confronted, he stopped the A.
Hope this works for you. LouLou

Bilbo,
I believe that your gut feeling is most likely correct. As others have said, your w may feel threatened by being in a situation of opening up. Therapy is intended to open the lines of communication and get unresolved issues out in the open.

If your W is or has been having an A, she certainly would not be the first one to line up and "tell all" if she is not ready. If she won't go, you should go without her. You cannot make her and you should not let her refusal stop you from getting help for yourself.

I'm just trying to understand her, and it's very difficult when she wont talk. I believe that I can forgive her, but I also know that I will never forget. I wish this was a terrible nightmare. Somebody please pinch me and wake me up.

I would make an appointment for marriage counseling and then I would say something like: W I feel things aren't right between us and I have made an appointment for marriage counseling on <insert date>. I hope you'll join me there so that we can get our marriage back to how it should be but if you choose not to go I will go alone. But I hope you'll join me because I miss you.
Now the balls in her court.

I'm thinking that it would be best if I tried to stay patient untill after V-day. It's also my wifes birthday this month. Try and maintain and not LB untill after that. Maybe by then I will come up with a meaningful way of expressing my feelings and why I think she is or had an A.
I'm about ready to explode inside. God please calm me down!!

Well prayers do get answered. I recieved my copy of HNHN last night. I've only read the first two chapters so far, but it has calmed me down.
For V-day, I was thinking of putting a copy of a country song in my wifes card. It's titled "I Miss My Friend". What do you think?

Hi Bilbo- I also let music and lyrics do alot of my talking.....I miss my friend is a good one. I don't understand from your posts-do you KNOW your W has/is or are you just wondering if your W is having an A? I dealt with MONTHS of ''knowing'' and asking -terrible. My H denied it all even when I said to him directly I do not believe you. I finally had to find written proof and now we are in recovery- which is hard to define-living together-hopefully NC with OW- there is SUCH a fine line between pushing too hard or letting apathy set in....fog.......you can't tell when its going to be pea soup or lifting to let some light in......keep posting- this is a very helpful/hopeful place to share and cope.

Hi Ruth,
I'm 99% sure she was or still is having an A. Lots of calls on the cell phone to a # I have yet to trace. But she did slip up and made a few call to a co-workers home # that I could trace. He is married, and about 15 yrs older than her. She keeps hiding the cell phone bills, which also leads me to believe she is or has.

hey Bilbo- hiding the cell bills? I get all of our phone bills- but if I miss one I call the phone co and ask for another copy- if you know her password you can access a cell bill online too- is she denying an A? I don't see how you will get anywhere without proving the A exists whether thru her confession or your detective work- I KNOW that being the snoop is a gut wrenching thing- my family was mired deep in several major things when I ''KNEW'' and I just didn't pursue the snooping to the level I should have- I finally just went thru his car when he was out with the kids one night and voila' there was STUFF that proved it all......sad/sick feeling but KNOWING forced progress. Once the A hits the light of day SOMETHING will happen-probably things will get worse first-but its better to KNOW and get to solving whats left- not knowing just lets it all keep going on and down. I was an IDIOT to have those gut feelings and not buck up myself and get to the bottom of it- I firmly believe no cheater fails to leave a trail....good luck- keep in touch!

U.S. Cell does not post the records on line, and the phone is in her name only. I get home befor she does, so I see the bill and make it look like I just looked at what was billed. But then the bill disappears from where we keep our bills.

have you called the mystery #'s?

Yes I have. He just says "leave your name and # and I'll call you back". The # is also unlisted, so I cant trace it. I don't know anybody that I would want to have call this # and verify who I believe it is, without my wife finding out.

Good Morning Bilbo- well geez...........I really feel for your position and the gut wrenching that goes with it- knowing and not being able to prove it or choke a confession out of the probable WS is SUCH a lost anxious feeling. It took me a few months- so many many things were going on in our lives that I just didn't make the time to search/snoop/detect......STUPID x 1000000000 and litte did I know.......the OW lives RIGHT UP THE STREET. so all my searching and it was right under my nose- don't know if I'll ever get over that fact. I had suggested a possible A going on to my sons but very vaguely to the youngest-he is almost 18- should have pursued that son......he knew and didn't even know it-but when it all came out he was the one with the immediate answers of who/what/where and I know I'll never forget the light just going out of his eyes when he realized he had been betrayed by his father and how he had been used, his feelings of guilt are tremendous thinking he played a part in my pain. Having said all that I will suggest to you again that you do whatever you need to do to FIND OUT- the longer it goes on- the deeper the deceit and the more innocent people get drug in and down with the whole mess. Innocently this week another teen visiting our home made a comment to my husband-just kidding around and the teen didn't realize that it isn't a joke-its REAL and my H told him to shut up (( my H wrongly assumed the kid was really being a smarta** and KNEW about his A ))well......then my son had to explain to his buddy what the real deal is after my H left the room...more pain for my child who does not share the turmoil in his home with even his best friend. We live in a city but after a lifetime here you discover it is indeed a very small world. I know there are more moments like that to come. I sense your reluctance in confronting your wife without PROOF so keep at it-SCIENTIA EST POTENTIA.......Knowledge is Power. praying for us all.......sign me Martini-((stirred and shaken))

Bilbo,
Have you considered calling the # and leaving your name and #. I wonder if he would call you back? I would leave a message telling him that you are checking on cell phone records and did not recognize the #. It is obvious now by what you have said that your W is on contact with him over the phone. (And possibly physically)

Knowing what you do, I am concerned that you have not confronted your W about it. Are you physically intimate with your W? Have you thought about the possibility of her giving you an STD?

It is not easy to admit that this is going on, but by allowing it to continue without a confrontation, you are... well... allowing it to continue. Will it be a LB to confront her? You bet it will! That's not the issue to be concerned with here, you deserve to know what is going on and to deal with the facts.

Please let us know how things go for you, Ladysing

We have not been intamate in going on 6 months. I want to confront her with this, but I want to be 100% sure. Was also waiting untill after her B-day and V-day. I guess it all boils down to I'm scared that it wont turn out like I would want it to. I just get really confused,mad,scared ect.

Bilbo,
I am sorry. You are not going to have 100% proof unless you find them in bed together.
The cell # issue is enough proof that something is going on. I dare say, the fact that you have not had sex together in 6 months adds additional fuel to the fire.

You say that you want to wait until after her B-day, Valentines. Why? So the two of you can have wonderful memories of these events? It's not going to happen.

You admit that you are scared that things will not turn out the way you want them to. Isn't that already perfectly obvious? You cannot change the past, you cannot put off the pain of this issue and make it go away. Does each day seem easier or harder to you? You must be eaten up with turmoil.

Face the fact that things are not now or ever going to be the way you wanted. Decide if you are going to make the necessary decisions to get the facts and begin the rest of your life. Go ahead and grieve for the marriage that you wanted, get it out of your system and then move ahead. Putting this off is not going to change the facts, it will just prolong your agony.

PLEASE confront her, get some professional help and take care of yourself. You deserve better. Ladysing