A while back I posted something about asking my W one last time if she is sure this is what she wants. Many BS's replied and thought it was a good idea, but you advised me not to because you don't believe my W has seen enough reality yet. As a FWS, I respect your insight a great deal so I haven't said anything. She's starting to see some reality because she's having problems with her lender and they are her's to handle on her own. She closes on her TH next week and will move out by the end of the month.

I've already got alot of big plans for when I move back home. Painting 3 rooms, moving my daughter to a different bedroom, buying new FR furniture, a big screen TV and a pool table. I'll be very busy getting on with my life.

For whatever reason, nothing has happened with the D or the financial issues. In fact my lawyer served her with financial discovery a while back, but my W hasn't responded. She has until 2/19 to do so. I was never served likewise. The last thing we did was sign the custody agreement 2 months ago. I'm not sure what my W is waiting for. Maybe with the holidays, my mom's passing and the house issues my W has been preoccupied.

My question to you is what do I do? On the one hand I just want to get it over, but on the other hand I want to see how she adjusts to being on her own for the first time ever, leaving our home, leaving our dog (don't underestimate that) and the realities that lie ahead. Her life is about to change drastically for the first time since this all started. I can't say I've completely given up. I'm indifferent. I'm sure being back in my house will make me feel a lot better and I'll be real busy getting it in order, giving it my own feel. It will occupy my time. Who knows, once she's settle in her TH, she may get the ball rolling.

Any thoughts from a FWS perspective?

sad dad

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

Not a FWS...but...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't say I've completely given up. I'm indifferent </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you've reach a stage of indifference...it's over. That's no foundation to rebuild or even began all over again from scatch. jmho

I hope you peace, joy, happiness and love on continuing journey. Be the best dad you can be and the best man that you can...that's enough. Good Luck!

sad dad-

IMO, there's a good chance that she's having doubts about going through with the D. If I were you, I'd continue to tread lightly and leave that door open if you've got it in you. I remember from your previous posts how much your W reminded me of my XW. Is it correct that contact with this OP has ended but she feels that things have been so messed up by the A that D is the only option? And let me guess, once she makes up her mind about something she usually follows through? I wish you luck with this sad dad, either way you'll get through it and find happiness again.

sad dad-

I must say that I'm also interested in h4f answer to your question. My W seems to be from the same mold as your wife. When I first discovered A1, she expressed that she didn't know what to do next but that maybe the best thing to do was to separate. All through the counseling that followed, my W never expressed any ideas of her own on how to move forward with separation or with the marriage. The only thing she was sure of at the time was that she didn't buy into 'plans' suggested by Steve Harley.

If I had not filed for the Dv, we'd still be in a holding pattern, waiting on my W to take some action. If it had been possible at the time, she would have not had any problems with Plan B unless I cut her off financially. What I wasn't prepared to do last year was to wait around on her to start another relationship outside of the marriage. It was obvious that it would happen again. Even today, as we go through custody evaluation and other legal work, she doesn't talk about anything. She doesn't talk about moving forward and she doesn't talk about fixing things. It really confuses me. If she really wanted to end things, why didn't she just do that. Even today, if you ask her, she doesn't express much of a reason for wanting out or for not trying to 'fix' the marriage. She says that I am a good man and a good father.

I share your frustration sd. I'd like to read other's responses to your questions.

HoFS

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</small>

Saddad, give me a couple of days to get back to you. I need to think a little and I have a crammed packed schedule. I'm overbooked for appts today and have my business class tonight (and I have to do an 8 minute speech in front of everyone!!!UG!). I'm working on little sleep and a whole lotta stress so my answer wouldn't be a well thought out one at this point. I'll have some time Friday...I'll get back to you then! HANG IN THERE!!

wifey,

You may be right, but I may never get the chance to find out.

litch,

W works with OM so I'm sure there's still contact, but that's probably it. If he were still in the picture, she'd be pushing the D.

hfs,

Are we married to the same woman? Your description fits my W's behavior (or lack there of) to a "T". I think she was content with the status quo. Her life didn't change one bit except that I wasn't there. Not a bad deal, to have all the comforts of home and my income, but not having to deal with me. Those days are soon over.
I can't know this for sure, but I think when my W filed 15 months ago it was to be with the OM, but she couldn't leave because of custody issues. I think he bailed on her a long time ago and she was stuck in no-mans-land and she's still there.

sad dad


sad dad

h4f,

8 minutes of public speaking? Arggh! I have trouble with that kind of stuff, I don't like being the focus of attention. Good luck!
Whenever you have time. Thanks!

sad dad

I'm DONE!!! Well, not with the class, but atleast with my presentation. This was only the 3rd class of 12, and I was warned it only gets harder. That's worrisome to say the least, since I already am working 80+ hours a week between the job and the homework for building this business plan. Whine whine whine...I signed up for it, it's my OWN FAULT!!!

Oky doky guys...here's the thing on your wives. Stuck is EXACTLY what they are. Do they want to be divorced? NO! They don't want to be alone, they don't want to be uncomfortable and they're scared of the unknown. I was no different. 6 months after telling my husband that I wasn't coming back, he had to push me along to find out if or when I was going to file. Even after I finally did I drug my feet. Not necessarily conciously, but because it was something I didn't WANT to do, I stalled and stalled and stalled.

Kind of like going to the dentist...I have 3 fillings that have fallen out...but I don't WANNA GO. It's uncomfortable but I've learned to live with it, and the thought of going to the dentist is worse. I make excuses all the time about not having time (which is true, yet adjustable) and I whine about how much money it will cost (also true, but a fact of life). Mostly I just don't think about it. One of these days I'll be forced to do something about it, but until then I move on with my life like it's a non issue. A true story and an accurate analogy. Our divorce was much like a bad tooth to me.

Are they happy? No, but they're either conflict avoiders or so stuck in the fog that they just DO NOT want to face reality even long enough to get the divorce.

Do they hang on because they still love you? Well, probably subconciously. I know while I was in the fog my H was more like someone I knew from way back that it hurt to think about, instead of thinking of him as a person. While in the fog the ONLY person you REALLY think about is yourself. I tried thinking about other peoples feelings, but it all was filtered through the fog and wound up being very skewed. Once OUT of the fog I realized I never stopped loving my husband, and I actually came to realize how deep our love was.

After the initial shock of seperation, and once I'd already told my H I wanted a DV, we both became more comfortable. Happy? NO! But comfortable that we weren't both trying to make decisions in that area any more and no longer going to be in limboland. But moving FORWARD meant more discomfort...so I didn't really want to do that either! Limboland sucks, but when you're petrified with fear about the unknown of what lies ahead.

So what do you do? I know you're feeling indifferent, and I'll be honest, I disagree with Wifey that that means it's over and you should move on. My husband and I had BOTH reached indifference. It DID NOT mean that we didn't still care about each other and it did not mean that we couldn't build on that to fall back in love and have a good marriage. WE DID and WE DO! All it meant was that we had reached some acceptance and were ready to finally face the fire in order to move on in our lives. Heck of it was, when I finally looked to take the plunge and get the divorce...facing the pain brought some clarity of thought. I'd been afraid of the thought of trying our marriage again and winding up miserable and stuck...but the thought of heading back out in to the sea of unknown dating prospects and trying to find someone was even SCARIER. I came to appreciate just how much I really did like my husband how he actually fit in to my life. No, on paper he isn't what I would have described as my ideal in a partner...but in the real world he fits in ways I couldn't even describe on paper. He's my perfect partner because I want him to be. It's an act of effort, not one of chance.

Maybe with some painful reality your wives will come to realize that as well. It DEPENDS, though. I became a hermit and didn't WANT to go out with friends and party. So I didn't have the exposure to other prospective enablers. I didn't date and although I did chat with many people online, I balked at the idea of meeting ANYONE! I was just too scared to get hurt again. Once I realized I'd HAVE to get over that fear or chance living alone for the rest of my life...I decided maybe it was worth it to chance my marriage again. If your wives aren't going out and trying to latch on to someone else in order to make the transition easier, they might come to realize that too.

So Saddad, what do you do? Well, that's not an easy one to answer and I can't make the decision for you. But I will say that even though I don't think it will do any good at this point, if you feel like you'll regret not having told your wife one last time that you'd still like to reconcile...then TELL HER. You have to live with yourself...I don't. I'd like to see her "suffer" reality a little more before you do it, if you can stand limboland a little longer, but NOTHING you do will absolutely be the right or wrong thing to do. Whether your wife decides to come out of the fog or not is pretty much completely dependant upon HER. My hubby did some very wrong things, he also did some very right things very unintentionally. I could never have been able to tell him that had he done XY&Z I would have come out of the fog...because I didn't know until those things happend.

If you can put life on hold a little longer to wait out the new adjustment without pushing forward in the divorce, I think it would be worth it. Maybe nothing will change, but it's STILL not wasted time. Give yourself a time limit...set a date...and if after that time nothing is doing, move forward with a new life plan. In the meantime do things for YOURSELF. The healthier and happier you are, the more attractive you seem. A secure, stable person makes a good dating prospect...and people who are stuck might be encouraged and enticed by that.

Hope that helps!!! I think I might have a full 8 minutes here!! Ug...I have homework to do now, due by 8am tomorrow morning. If you hear a loud bang, it's my head exploding. Do something nice for yourself today!!!!

WOW!!

"He's my perfect partner because I want him to be. It's an act of effort, not one of chance."

Perfecto!! Brava!! Clear, simple, and true.

h4f,

Thanks you so much. I'm going to take some time to digest what you said and I'll respond in more detail over the weekend.

sad dad

P.S. Take a break from work and school, get a sitter and do something fun with Mr. H4F. You deserve it!!!!!!!

Thanks Pepper! I'll have to add it to my sig line....

Saddad, Mr H and I have a great day planned for Valentines day...and I'm REALLLLY looking foward to it! We need it!!

h4f,

I want to thank you for putting so much time and thought into your response. I know you’ve got a lot going on and I really appreciate your help.

“...here's the thing on your wives. Stuck is EXACTLY what they are. Do they want to be divorced? NO! They don't want to be alone, they don't want to be uncomfortable and they're scared of the unknown...Even after I finally did I drug my feet. Not necessarily conciously, but because it was something I didn't WANT to do, I stalled and stalled and stalled.”

This might be the hardest part for me. Learning about her A was hard and knowing she wanted a D was worse, but 15 months after she filed, seeing her drag her feet on it is the worst. It’s like she’s tearing off a bandage ever so slowly to avoid the pain and reality that come from it. Although I wouldn’t agree with it or understand it, I’d respect her a lot more if she made her decision and followed through with it quickly. Whether it is the right thing to do or not, at least I’d know she truly believed that it was.

“Kind of like going to the dentist...I have 3 fillings that have fallen out...but I don't WANNA GO. It's uncomfortable but I've learned to live with it, and the thought of going to the dentist is worse. I make excuses all the time about not having time (which is true, yet adjustable) and I whine about how much money it will cost (also true, but a fact of life). Mostly I just don't think about it. One of these days I'll be forced to do something about it, but until then I move on with my life like it's a non issue. A true story and an accurate analogy. Our divorce was much like a bad tooth to me.”

Good analogy, the difference being you didn’t DECIDE to make those fillings fall out.
(By the way, go to the friggin’ dentist, will ya?)

“Are they happy? No, but they're either conflict avoiders or so stuck in the fog that they just DO NOT want to face reality even long enough to get the divorce.”

You’re right! She’s not happy and by her own admission she won’t be happy once we’re divorced. THEN WHY IS SHE DOING IT? That’s the $1,000,000 question. I never thought this before, but she is a conflict avoider. She avoided telling me she wasn’t happy and something was wrong in our marriage. She avoiding admitting her A. She’s avoided dealing with the true cause of her unhappiness. As far as the D, I think she had some pre-conceived ideas of how it would go, basically she thought I would just roll and let her have exactly what she wants. Now that she’s seen that’s not happening, she’s avoided dealing with the issues that need to be dealt with, i.e. custody, selling the house, a financial settlement, etc. I had to take the initiative on the custody settlement. I had to take the initiative on buying the house from her. I honestly think she is waiting for me to get so frustrated that I take the initiative to get the D over with. That just may happen.

“I know you're feeling indifferent, and I'll be honest, I disagree with Wifey that that means it's over and you should move on. My husband and I had BOTH reached indifference. It DID NOT mean that we didn't still care about each other and it did not mean that we couldn't build on that to fall back in love and have a good marriage. WE DID and WE DO! All it meant was that we had reached some acceptance and were ready to finally face the fire in order to move on in our lives.”

This is exactly where I’m at. I still believe we can fall back in love and have a wonderful marriage, but I accept that unless my W wants that I have to move on with my life. I’d like it to be with her, but if not it will be with someone else.

“So Saddad, what do you do? Well, that's not an easy one to answer and I can't make the decision for you. But I will say that even though I don't think it will do any good at this point, if you feel like you'll regret not having told your wife one last time that you'd still like to reconcile...then TELL HER. You have to live with yourself...I don't. I'd like to see her "suffer" reality a little more before you do it, if you can stand limboland a little longer

I can. Once I’m back in the house, I know I’ll feel a lot better. I’ll have some comfort knowing I’m in MY house, knowing my daughter will have some stability. Plus I’ll be so busy getting the house in order, it will get my mind off my marriage/divorce. Living in my mom’s TH has been very difficult. I don’t know anyone here, it never felt like home and knowing that I’m only here because she passed away is painful.

“If you can put life on hold a little longer to wait out the new adjustment without pushing forward in the divorce, I think it would be worth it. Maybe nothing will change, but it's STILL not wasted time. Give yourself a time limit...set a date...and if after that time nothing is doing, move forward with a new life plan. In the meantime do things for YOURSELF. The healthier and happier you are, the more attractive you seem. A secure, stable person makes a good dating prospect...and people who are stuck might be encouraged and enticed by that.”

Good advice. Really, at this point, with custody long since settled and the house issues finally settled, my W has no more excuses not to proceed with the D full steam ahead if it‘s what she really wants. If nothing happens in a couple of months, it will be time to ask her why? On the other hand, if she gets the ball rolling with the D, I’ll have my answer and move on with my life. Things are going to change one way or another very soon.

“Do something nice for yourself today!!!!”

I’ve got lots of nice plans in the works. I bought a big screen TV last week and I’m going shopping for new furniture today. I also see a pool table in my future. Next month I’m going to Arizona for spring training with some buddies. As a die-hard Cub fan, it’s a dream vacation. I’ll be living the good life, just without my W.

Thanks again! Hope all goes well with your Valentine’s day plans.

sad dad

<small>[ February 09, 2003, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

Sounds good!!! We have my Grandpas pool table and someday I hope to have it recovered. The trip sounds fabulous too! I think all the realities will bring your wife around one way or another. The bandaid analogy is one I used to use too. You're SO RIGHT on that one. It WOULD be easier just to rip it off...but in our case something just never felt just quite right about it. I just didn't feel I could do that until I figured things out. Trying to do that in the fog is enough to drive a person insane!!! Oh, and I will go to the dentist soon...just as soon as I find time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Hee hee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

h4f,

I think the big difference between you and my W is that while you knew deep down D wasn't the answer, you searched for it. I don't think she has. For a while, she may have thought OM was the answer, but apparently not. So now she sits, still unhappy, knowing the D won't make her happy and doubting she'll ever be happy again.

She'll be a single mom having her daughter much less than she thought, living in a small TH, much worse off financially knowing this is all the result of her own choices. I, on the other hand, will have my daughter much more than I thought, I'll be living in our big, beautiful house and very well off financially. She'll either accept the responsibility for the position she's in or blame and resent me for it. Hopefully it's the former because maybe then she will do the work or soul searching necessary to find her happiness. For her sake and our daughter's I hope she does.

sad dad

H4F,

A question for you. When you "came out of the fog" as you put it, was it a slow process or did you just finally hit bottom and "bam!", a lightblub went off?

sad dad

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

Sad Dad, I cant give you any view I am afraid just that my sitch very closely mirrors yours. I do hope that both our WW's see the problem and work on it.

Just wanted you to know my thoughts and encouragement are with you. Neil.

Thanks Neil. Good luck to you.

sad dad

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