<small>[ February 16, 2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: thisisnotright ]</small>

What am I doing wrong? Maybe my constant questions are upsetting him? How should I act? I am slowly giving up, I am tired of this. Please help me

What exactly are you doing? What questions are you asking him? Could you give a little more info on your situation?

MTD

BTW-My Plan A, as poorly executed as it was, was successful. There is always hope.

<small>[ February 16, 2003, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Misia111 ]</small>

Hi Misia:

Try to find the book LOVE IS TOUGH by James Dobson tomorrow. I applied some of these principles with my heavily addicted WS and they seemed to work. At least, I feel a lot better about myself than when I was following a strict Plan A. Dobson states that begging and pleading may drive the WS away. "You don't want to buy from the pushy car dealer do you? " was his example. Try to find my post regarding the discussion that I had with my WS on February 3 under Mimi's Update.

Take Care

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Misia,

I did both Plan A and B, under what appeared to be horrendous circumstances, but we recovered our marriage in the end. An old link covers my story.

A few pieces of advice. Spend time reading all of the concept sections here, as well as the articles and all Q&A columns. One good thing it'll do is to give you an idea how the MB program works. Another thing it'll do is tie up your time so you can't bug your wayward husband. If begging, pleading, rational discussions, or whomping a WS with a 2x4 worked, we'd all be in saved marriages.

The next piece of advice I'd give you is to counsel with either Steve or Jenn Harley over the phone. You can make an appointment by calling the MB office at 888-639-1639. The best thing I ever did during my wife's affair was to begin counseling with Steve within a week of D-day.

Plan A is about changing your marital behavior for the betterment of the marriage. You should concentrate on avoiding lovebusters (begging, pleading, questioning are probably all on that list), and meeting what needs your husband will allow you to meet (assuming that you are OK with that---don't do things you can't commit to doing for a while or can't stomach---if you build more resentment up in this marriage, it'll lessen your ability to stick with the plan.

That's the synopsis. Steve or Jenn can fill in the details. One thing about my Plan A, it was pretty much an abysmal failure in terms of getting my wife to quit her affair or acknowledge how hard I was working to save the marriage. But after Plan B, and when the affair ended, I found out that my Plan A was extremely successful, and that my wife realized that the marriage could be much better than what she remembered it being. Plan A is often the setup to Plan B---it's important to establish a consistent track record of these new behaviors. The deeper the affair, the tougher the work. But you can still be successful---remember that the majority of affairs don't last more than a couple years.

<small>[ February 16, 2003, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Misia111 ]</small>

Misia:

Go up to your first post on this thread and edit the topic to read URGENT HELP NEEDED. You need some help on this airport scene from MB senior members.

I would say that it was another D-Day which puts your situation in a different light. My WS said the same thing as your WS when I found him with the OW, that he is "trying to end it". My WS is continuing to tell me that. As Steve H and MB principles state, there is only one way to end As, COLD TURKEY. The WS has to completely stay away from the OP and make a commitment to never see that person ever again in their life.

Go to the library to get LOVE IS TOUGH if you cant' buy it because I think that it is out of print. It is well worth it. I think that it has been helpful for me to be able to say to my WS (although thinking otherwise inside), "I want you to be with me because you want to , not because I have begged you or you feel like you need to be nice to me". I got the nice gifts, too. Looking back, the gifts were out of pity, not because he was "in love" with me. While our WSes are in their addiction, they are "in love" with the OW. As much as it hurts, we have to accept that the romantic love is felt for the OP, thus, the roses at the airport.

Misia, I know EXACTLY how you are feeling. Just know as they have told me here. You can't get your WS to stop his A. His has to do that himself. Find WAT's (Worth a Try) GUIDELINES somewhere on the site. Look under his signature line. They are very helpful.

Take Care

<small>[ February 16, 2003, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Misia111 ]</small>

First of all, Steve H. would tell you that he is really not "in love" with her. He almost laughed at me when I asked that same question. Its not about "real love" Misia. Its an addiction, a sickness, like alcoholism. It is hard for me to understand, too. Steve said that "nothing good" can come out of a relationship that is based on an addiction.

The Tough Love approach is still working for me. In using that approach, you would say to him when he comes home something like this: "I don't want you if you do not want me. I deserve better treatment than this. I love you and you are welcome to come back to me when and if you want to. I only want you back if you want me. I don't plan to share you with anyone else. You are free to go if you want. I am letting you go. The key is Misia, don't beg or plead, let him feel free, not trapped. I know inside you really want to beg and plead. You have to be tough for the sake of your marriage. Just like you won't let your babies run out into the street. I'm learning that it is best to LET GO and there's a good chance that he will come back. You want to win his RESPECT for you and then he will value your worth.

I just saw my WS again today. He has left home and is living in a condo. His OW probably stays with him there a lot. However, he wanted to tell me that he is coming home "if I will take him back". I am still going to proceed with a legal separation in order to protect myself since he continues to be under the OW's power.

This works with PLAN A. You need to talk to him in a calm, controlled voice without anger or emotion. Try to practice it. I think your H is like mine. He needs to start respecting you. I think I have at least accomplished this and I feel a lot better about myself.

I will stay in touch with you today. Keep posting. We can hang on in here for each other. The people on this board have really helped me. I hope I can help you.

misia111

I hope in some way. You can hang in there. My H is in lust not love. I hope it might sink in before its to late. I think you don't fall in love in a day. Fall out of love in a day, or fix it in a day. By me letting go there are not two women fighting over him. I may be forceing him to take another look at his life. I don't know. Just working on my self and taking one day at a time.

I hope in some way I was a little help.

Your in my thoughts, Kathy

<small>[ February 16, 2003, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Misia111 ]</small>

Read my previous post. I told you exactly what Dobson suggests that you say. Then come back and tell me what you think. Read that post again carefully. I talked about WAT'S guidelines which are helpful.

Calm down. It's going to be alright!!!! The most important thing for you to do is to be able to take care of your children. Please don't let him do this to you while he is out having fun. I know how you feel because I felt the same way but it is true what people are saying. It does get better. There is nothing we can do to stop them. We can only control ourselves!!!!

<small>[ February 08, 2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Misia,,,,My grandmother used to say two things to me,,,,,1) It will ALL be ok in the end,,,if it's not OK yet, then it's not the end yet,,,,and 2) Be careful what you ask for,,,you just might get it, so thank GOD for unanswered prayers. All I can say to you is that you cant MAKE him want to save his marriage. Begging and pleading is EXACTLY what he wants you to do,,it feeds his ego, which sounds pretty much like what he wants right now. I would Plan A him to death and stop enabling him by basically saying that ANY behavior he decides to present is OK. DON'T BEG OR PLEAD, calmly suggest that he is free to go and can stay gone until he decides he truly WANTS to work on the marriage and that INCLUDES no contact with the OW. Stop feeding his ego by begging him to stay. Good luck to you,,,I am STILL bowled over by the "He can't trust YOU theme" <shaking head> God Bless,,,Holly

<small>[ February 16, 2003, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Misia111 ]</small>

It always puts me in a brain twist when they say they do not want to hurt OW or anyone for that matter.
What the heck do they think we are? Made of metal and wires? They have hurt us more than anything or anyone could, yet they make these statements about not wanting to hurt OW!
Somewhere along the line they have to realize we're the ones who've been damaged badly.
They owe no explanation to OW! All that needs saying is what he said to you. That he has done a dumb thing and it's not worth losing his family over. Then tell her he will not be in contact again and to get on with her life with a single man!
The "I don't want to hurt her" hurt me even more after all the lies, deceit and unfaithfulness.
This is where I demanded respect for me even if it wasn't love.
I think the best thing they can do to help us BS's start to heal is actually show us now that our feelings matter more! And if that means hurting ow, so be it!
What the hell were they doing to us all that time?
Misia, he sounds sincere, but you know him best and if he's prone to lying about the wake up call.
I couldn't handle a time line.When I found out it had to be over then and there. I do think they may have talked a few times by phone afterwards, but she called because I had let her H know all! One of last phone calls he said she hated him and me. Good, I say! Hate me all she wants,but keep her hands off my husband!
Fortunately, she lives across country and it's not easy for them to see each other. They only met twice by flying to Fl. Old high school sweethearts meeting after over 40 yrs.
Play your cards calmly, keep a straight face, but follow the counselors advice on handling the issues of NC.
You might tell WH that it seemed easy for him to push you aside for OW, and hurt you, so what is wrong with now putting you first? That as long as he tries to be gentle with her feelings, he's still hurting you tremendously and you've had enough.
LouLou
God bless, LouLou

Misia,

Your H seems to be acting as can be expected for a WS who is confused and really does want to work on the marriage. But he doesn't know if he can get away from OW and is very scared of losing that since he doesn't know if he can find that at home. I'd bet money on this. Not a lot, but if I had to.....

I would suggest that you take steps to help reassure him (sigh, you're the one who needs reassurance) that their is hope between you and him. Set up conversations that come off as safe for him to share. You need to practice non-reaction to his revelations (other than showing hurt). The more you react angrily or "pester", the less willing he'll be to share. There are scripts you can run in your mind to prepare for this.

Yes, the truth will hurt and it will make certain aspects of recovery longer, but the practice of openness and honesty mitigate that.

I love the story about his wondering about how you knew about the Airport. It helps to make them wonder. Especially if you can do it in a cute way without LBing. Keep amazing him with your ability to not react angrily.

I don't have any suggestions on how to get the A to break off quicker. That's very tricky. But it seems your H is making progress on his own. Just keep making it safe for him and that he hasn't lost everything. Perhaps you could talk about how the dragging out part hurts both OW and you.

That said, don't be too forgiving or trusting. Have a set of requirements between the both of you to start recovery. Stuff like NC, MC, etc. And prepare yourself for withdrawal and the tendancy to want to lash out now that he's back. I started my first recovery with mistaken expectations about withdrawal and clarity about NC to my regret.

Good luck putting up with the craziness. btw, I'd love to see more space between your paragraphs - easire to read that way.

Misia

My WS has turned some kind of corner and is showing remorse for his A and plans to do NC. He has repeatedly said over the past few days how important it was that I did not react angrily. He would even try to provoke me into anger but I would not bend. I was intent on trying not to LB. He said that when I became angry, he would feel justified, thinking of me as a bad person. I ditto est on this.

Your WS has followed a similar pattern as mine so I thought this might help. I will keep checking on you.

<small>[ February 16, 2003, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: Misia111 ]</small>

I told my H that he shouldn't worry about breaking up with the OW and leaving her if he ever wanted to, because he is not committed to her, he is still legally committed to me. Actually I don't even think she should deserve an explanation. I am trying to get smarter and not ask questions I am trying to give him ultimatums, but I don't know if they will back fire or not. The only question I asked him today was if he missed us (meaning me and the kids) and he said yes. Usually he will say I miss me. (himself)

In his current state of balance between you and him, he could get stuck in this best-of-both-worlds or rather, the most comfortable/least short-term ramifications limbo.

Granted, it's only been a day or something (I think), but if he gets stuck in this, he's probably going to need some kind of jolt. I hope he is strong enough to make a decision and take the appropriate action. But if not, there are other steps to follow.

During your talk with your WH tonight, you might talk about how you'd like for the both of you to be able to work on this marriage and that you can wait a bit, but that this limbo makes you feel really terrible, hurt, and unloved.

I would think about calling OW, just to let her know that there is a very nice and loving person that her "boyfriend" is married to. If you acted mean, she'll probably feel further justified in A - assuming H has told her bad things about you. Be calm and let her know that you do want to work on the marriage and perhap make the request that she give you guys a chance. Don't expect much, but it could help - epecially if H had to lie a lot to get OW to get involved. But it's hard to keep emotions in check and the results are unpredictable.

Alternatively, you could make it not worth her while to maintain A and ruin her life, but that gets a bit messy.

You may consider asking your H about this under the premise that you are just trying to understand the OW's point of view. Not to yell at her or anything. Your H's responses might be useful to better understanding where he is.

Telling others is always an option, but it's something that sort of undoable once its done. I would probably hold off on that for a while. THOUGH, you may want to confide in a close friend. They can be useful for future telling. Perhaps a friend could even run into H/OW at the airport, "by accident".

Since calling him at work doesn't seem to do much, it might help to resist that desire a bit harder. It may be easier just to give up on work-time talking and concentrate on opportunities at home. It's like he changes his frame of mind at work or something. Compartmentilization is generally easier for men than women.

Have you considered snooping software - if he IMs from home?

One other comment. Try to keep consistent in your actions towards WS. If you are only nice when he give flowers, I think it would set him up for being manipulative (i.e. giving flowers just so you won't bother him). Conversely, don't get too excited about the flowers. Appreciate them, but accept them in the context they are given (i.e. he's still seing OW)

Good luck. Sorry for the shotgun-like comments.

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: est ]</small>