WS called me after my last post here and we talked for two hours.

Well he has accomplished what Steve H. said he had to do. Steve H. is brilliant! He predicted that this would happen! My WS has come up with a PLAN for ending his relationship with the OW and he wants me to work on it with him. Steve says that this is a sign of recovery. I have to feel good about this guys. My WS came to this decision on his own and he did not know it was considered necessary or recommended by Steve H. Well, maybe he did because I really don't know what he talked about in his one and only session with Steve.

He asked me to give him 2 weeks-until March 1. This is moved up from mid to the end of March as he was saying yesterday. He states that he has been withdrawing from the OW, limiting contact, phone calls, etc. He states that he knows that it is addiction (I'm not kidding, he said this). He states that it has "been a lonely existence" at the condo. He is in a "black hole" there. He states that he is "depressed" and can't live like that anymore. He states that he can't live a "double life" anymore. He states that he has not been able to eat or sleep and has been weepy. I guess he's been doing without her as his mood enhancer. He states that he has to live up to his "responsibility" to his family. Oh, he said a lot of the right things.

He said what has led him to this is that I have shown him over the past few weeks that I "care about him" and "love him". He stated that "a man needs to feel needed and I now know that you need me". If I had stayed "angry", he would have never have come to this place. Sounds like to me PLAN A WORKED! I asked all kinds of questions that he answered. Was sex with her better? He states that it was good, he is a man but the contact with her was mainly about feeling needed and respected. I also asked : Shouldn't I be scared of her response to his ending the relationship? What's going to keep him from getting under her influence again?

He insists that he has turned a corner. He states that when he comes back he will not be "half-stepping", he will commit to counseling with Steve, he will consider going to the Marriage-Builders weekend at the end of March, he wants us to have a better relationship than we have ever had. I know you think I am making this up!!!

I asked "How will we work on things if we are apart for the next two weeks?" He states that he will talk to me each day between 11:30 and 1 which is my free time at work. He claims that he will have the alarm put in tomorrow.

I have more than enough money for the next couple of weeks so I probably will put off the separation agreement until then.

He is talking about a future with me again today. Steve also said that was necessary for him to be "in love" with me. Steve said that there are three requirements to be "in love" which is not unconditional: A loving relationship in the PAST (which we definitely had)-we talked about many of our unforgettable memories this morning; loving and caring in the PRESENT-my WS is beginning to see that I can be caring now although he has not been caring to me; lastly, there has to be a belief that there is chance for a FUTURE. When we first started out after D-Day, Steve said that my WS thought we only had the past and the future was "foggy". Now he SEEMS to feel that we can have a future. There was lots of talk about the future.

I ended the talk by reiterating my need for a No Contact letter and/or conversation in order for us to reconcile. He reiterated that he understands that is necessary. He also on his own stated that he knows that I will need to keep close tabs on his whereabouts just like if he is an "alcoholic". I am not kidding you. He said this. He said that he knows now that the "stuff" with her was "meaningless", just bad behavior (not his exact words) but in essence he was saying that it was not like a RELATIONSHIP. Unfortunately, for her, it sounds like he did use her. I know I should not feel sorry for her. When I asked shouldn't I be afraid of her, he stated that she was more afraid of me, she has nothing, no resources, etc. Now that's pitiful. I guess she asked for it.

What in the world do you guys think of this??

By the way, I did say "How can I believe this? You've had so many turn arounds?" He said, Believe me there will be no turning back. I told you I have turned a corner. This has been the worst week of my life." Sounds like Mther's husband.

Mimi,
I've followed some of your other thread. I just want to say that I'm very happy that things are going the way they are for you and your husband.

Please know that I'll be thinking of you . Thanks for sharing here, and especially the part about the three components of being in love. Interesting, indeed!

Take care,
Hopeful_Person

OK, mimi - this could be real!!

You are now beyond any point that I ever reached, so I cannot offer first hand experience. But I think I'm legit recommending you take it VERY slow and don't be too anxious for any one thing. Don't tell him what he HAS to do - help him figure it out on his own like he self-realized the other things you spoke of above.

I do have to say that I am not the least bit surprised at your description. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Very good job. I am happy for you.

WAT

Very encouraging news, Mimi!

I would like to offer a good indicator to watch that your husband is serious in his follow through, is when his words and actions match.

Blessings ...
Lv,
Jo

That sounds like good news mimi. I'm sure there will be rough times ahead but you should enjoy this for a while. I am very happy for you.Good Luck.

Mimi,

This is great news and good progress. Now I ask that you keep in the back of your mind that this is just one of the first steps toward recovery. I don't want to dampen your spirit but now you H must put his words into action and the addiction is still quite strong in him.

For you, be prepared to move forward and back a few time with him. I see in your case, your situation is going through the phases quickly. Maybe that's a sign that you will have less false recoveries. I hope so . For your protection though, you will need to be prepard for some false recoveries.

My WS said similar when he came home. He went out to live 5 months and the OW was planning 'their' wedding. Yet it was over 1 1/2 years later that contact actually stopped. False recoveries from the initial return home let to H being put in jail for 2 days with domestic violence charges (police officer saw him push me - that was all it took). WS living with OW for approx 10 days....... OW claimed prego's 2 and 3, etc.

This is just my example. Through it all it bacame easier to move to plan B (because the boundaries were already set). Each time he progressed out of the M into the A, a new boundary was added since my tolerance level was dropping and it became more evident what I needed to do. My resolve also was strengthen and those intolerable d/ds started to become obnoxious instead of scary.

In time, H came around. The ILY's are said more often now, his attitude and entire demeanor has improved. Periodically he apologizes about things he did in the A and some of them he can't believe he did. We argued a bit about some stuff I recalled. He said, ;that wasn't me.....' I said 'really, oh yea, that must have been my other H'.. (LOL!!) H has shaken his head in disbelief and probed me thinking I was making this stuff up..... he then realizes I am not and apologizes.... Another funny thing he asked was if I thought the OW was human or alien..... Without missing a beat, I said "Alien"...... All those WAT alien classes have paid off. I can now spot an alien a mile away (well almost). Saw a couple at MacDonalds a few montbs back, my girlfriend had to hold me back - LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Still an uphill battle. Now a look or a sigh lets him know there is something wrong.....we are now working on improving that warning signal (so I don't have to give him those looks so often - LOL!! ).

So I wish you and your H well on your journey to recovery. Please make sure he gets help with a good MC. STeve would be great.

Great to hear this kind of news. I have one suggestion though. Understand what you are getting in terms of remorse. The sooner he can express it clearly to you, the easier the recovery will likely be. There seem to be a number of recoveries going on now that are sort of stalled about this point.

I know that personally, I wished that I had waited 12-24 hours to clarify some things before coming back home.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He sounds like he is on the right track, Mimi. There might be a few set backs along the way, BUT, it won't be because he isn't trying. He has the right idea. It might not be all smooth sailing from here on out, but he is very much headed in the RIGHT direction. You have done SO GOOD!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

This sounds VERY VERY GOOD. But don't break out the champagne yet.

Keep your distance a bit. Say, I am so happy to hear you saying this, but I'm waiting to see if your actions match your words. Continue what you are doing. Let him work to come back.

What your WS is realizing is VERY VERY GOOD. And you can remind him that breaking it off will be hard, like an addict there are times when he will want that "high" and be tempted to contact OW. But if he gives in, that "high" will end up hurting him and giving him a nasty hangover. It will only cause him more pain. Cause more guilt for him to live with and jeopardize the two of you reaching recovery.

So good that he's talking about the future with you, and moving up the time frame for moving back. Just be very clear about your conditions. Think about the ways in which you want to strengthen the relationship.

Another thing that you have to watch out for is his pity for the OW creating guilt that could drag him back towards her- she has "no resources etc." The thing is that 1)OW chose to have a relationship with a MM- she walked in eyes open. 2) OW has had other relationships in the past and will have more in the future- she has a low investment in WS- she hasn't had kids with him or given him years of her life. 3) OW is young and employed. If she lacks resources (friends or family) it's because she hasn't nurtured those relationships and that is her own doing.

Good Luck MIMI thinking of you!

<small>[ February 09, 2003, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

Mimi,He agreed to counseling with SH. That is a first good step. When he actually does, that will be a great day for you both. And a MB weekend? Great. I hope all these things materialize.
Why don't you ask SH if you should ask H to start with him before he comes home?
I'm happy for your good news. One thing you must get from him is a promise to tell you if OW tries contact. And if he will cut her off after his NC letter.
She may try begging him back into her life, or asking help with some sob story.
They love to play on sympathy! But as far as I'm concerned, deserve none! They aren't children, but adults who made their own beds. Now she can lay in it alone!
Congratulations Mimi. You have done well.
God bless, LouLou

I don't have much time right now.

Just want to let you guys know that I talked to him about how she will likely lay a guilt trip. He insisted that there is nothing that she can say or do. He seemed know what her games are already. I guess we have to realize that one attraction is that he was in charge and she is immature.

I know this sounds awful and he hated to admit this. He said he was going to use the same methods to get out of the A that he used to stay in it. That means telling her lies, I guess. I didn't comment on this to him. What do you guys have to say about that? It works for me but what is that saying about him. It certainly shows that he does not respect her and is growing in respect for me. Gaining respect has been important for me. I hope others can learn from this.

He also agreed to tell me when there is continued contact. I told him that that would probably happen. He agreed. You see,we had a long conversation and covered lots of bases. I was thinking the whole time what you guys would want me to ask. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am not breaking out the champagne yet though. We have got a long way to go. I won't be surprised if there is a setback. However,he has consistently consistently been getting better over the past three days although I'm pretty sure that he has seen her and talked to her.

One good thing is he won't have anywhere to stay after mid March unless he buys the condo. Today he said he did not mind losing the 2000. He sees it as the price he had to pay to learn what it was like to leave home.

Sounds too good to be true. I can only continue to work on me and for those of you who understand this , I have to also put this in God's hands. He has been behind me this whole way because I've been praying and praying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong> know this sounds awful and he hated to admit this. He said he was going to use the same methods to get out of the A that he used to stay in it. That means telling her lies, I guess. I didn't comment on this to him. What do you guys have to say about that? .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mimi, why? What does he mean by this? An essential part of recovery will be his willingness to send her a no contact letter that clearly explains his love for you and his choice to pursue his marriage. Does his plan preclude this essential step?

And, do you feel better today?? I sure do!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Another thing that sounds very promising to me is this new openness with you. He is now becoming open with you at the expense of the OW.

I,too, would wonder what lies he will be telling. Hopfully, not lies about his recommitment to you!
She needs to hear the truth so she isn't strung along anymore.
Believe me, I have no sympathy for her, but it should be clear he is recommiting to you out of love for you. No waffling around.
God bless Mimi, LouLou

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>....... He said he was going to use the same methods to get out of the A that he used to stay in it. That means telling her lies, I guess. I didn't comment on this to him. What do you guys have to say about that? It works for me but what is that saying about him. It certainly shows that he does not respect her and is growing in respect for me. Gaining respect has been important for me.......</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mimi,

There were a lot of aspects of your post that I could comment on. Right now I will limit it to the above statement..... When mine told me that, I shared the same sentiments as you.

However, honesty was my #1 priority and so I told my Ws that if he was going to come back to our family, it required he be honest in all things.... including the OW. YUCK..... a requirement none the less.

That showed both of us that double standards will not be tolerated in a our family regards of who it appears to benefit. You know what?

In the long run, the benefit was ours many times over. The OW did not believe the WS and kept questioning him.... that led to further LBs on her part. Eventually it wore him out and now he wonders what he saw in her..... mission accomplished? Well one of them but certainly not all.....

The point is honesty does pay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care.... I am proud of you and your progress.

L.

My H was trying to end it with "dignity". The fact is that there is no dignified way to end a relationship that is built on lies, dishonesty, pain and destruction. His "dignified" way of breaking up with her involved abandoning his family for a couple of days to go see her, scr*w her a few times (claims she initiated, felt sorry for her so he went along with it???), jeopardizing his family and marriage. He caused a wound that still hasn't healed.

Make it clear to your WS that he now has the choice of honesty versus more lies. If he wants to rebuild his marriage with you it must be based on truth not lies. That includes telling the truth to OW, painful as it might be.

A lot more conversation is necessary with my WS. In the light of today, I continue to distrust him immensely. I was still home alone last night. However, you know I had to check. She did not spend the night with him. She was at home two nights in a row. That's not to say that they did not spend all day together yesterday and Saturday. I've got to stop worrying about that and realize that I can't control it.

Regarding HIS PLAN for NC with the OW, we are supposed to be working on that together if we work according to MB principles. However, I'm not going to bring it up with him. The Dobson approach, with me being tougn and aloof and him feeling free, seems to work best in our case. I'll just keep my eyes and ears open.

He did initially say "I think anyone (meaning OW) can understand how this life is depressing and I have a responsibility to my family". Then when I questioned further and stated that she will use guilt trips, he THEN made the comment about using the same approach as he used to stay in the A. I think he remains confused and is searching for the answers. He will have to ask me to help him though or I will be playing the same role he states that he has resented about me, telling him what to do, being the smart one, thinking that I know all the answers. I'm going to sit back and let him figure it out for himself if he can. He can ask be for assistance.

The bottom line is I'm giving him two weeks and a NO CONTACT letter will be necessary. He knows these facts.

Feedback and suggestions are welcomed!!!!
I will continue to work on getting stronger and trying not to beg, plead or initiate contact with him. That's been hard.

It's funny Mimi.

During the A, my WS stated he needed to see me as less 'managerial' less 'administrative' even though my handling of many of the day to day chores freed him up to pursue his own dreams. At one point, my IC told me, he can tell that my WS realizes how dangerous the A is, how out of control, how unstable.

The truth was that my H counts on me to take care of many of those things. He took the opportunity to resent it, and to feel 'trapped'. The reality is that he depends on me to handle this stuff, he admitted to me once the fog had cleared. The scary thing was that OW would not have handled any of this stuff for him most likely.

So step back a bit, offer the reins (control) to your WS but don't be too surprised if he wants you to handle things the way you did before.

I agree with you that distance is the way to go. So, Mimi- you still have not answered this question- what are you going to do for YOU on Valentine's Day? It's coming up on Friday. Be careful or you'll be sitting at home hoping WS will call and that is NOT what you should be doing. Or if you do stay home, make it special- rent a movie, get some bubble bath, some gourmet takeout, spring for a manicure after work. Best would be to go out, even if it's with your son or a relative.

Remember that book the RULES? If a guy doesn't ask you out in advance, he doesn't get the date. Don't fall for a last minute invite from WS or a lunchtime date. It will be giving him the WRONG message. OK I know you're human- if you fall for a last minute invite at least act like you have to rearrange your schedule!

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

Espoir:

I think you've got it! My WS is coming to the realization of how much he depended on me as much as he hated it. I'm absolutely positive that she can't manage his life like I did and he's paying the price for it. I'm wondering how he is setting up that condo and I have a real flair for decorating and making things homey. "You don't miss your water until the well runs dry".

I am feeling confident tonight. I think I blew my WS' mind at the health club tonight. I was aloof, didn't try to talk to him and talked to a lot of people I knew that were there. Plus, I had a knock-out new exercise outfit on as someone here suggested. I caught him sneaking looks at me and he even came back in after he dressed to say good-bye. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I don't like all the drama that is going on though as mthr is saying on the other topic. I will need to have a conversation about his continued contact with the OW for the next two weeks. That's not necessary and too long as far as I'm concerned although their A has been longterm.

I'm feeling better and better about myself though in MY PLAN as Steve would say!!!