I am angry at myself. I goofed tonight. I broke a rule I made to myself. I spoke with my W. Darn! I was doing so good! This is tough.

First, let me ask a rhetorical question, "why can't I hate her?" Believe it or not, I think it would be easier if I did. Everything she's done to me and continues to do. Even tonight she pushed my buttons and manipulated me like a puppet. No, I didn't get upset, but I asked her why she was doing all this to me and to our son and ended up crying on the phone. How can I possibly save my son if I cannot seem to save myself? I don't feel hate nor contempt for her and my family and friends fear that this may be my downfall because she knows me and knows how emotional I can be.

It all started because I called her to ask her if I could see my S tomorrow. I was planning on taking him shopping for a v-day gift from him to his mom. She said yes and then told me what she was thinking about his birthday a week from Saturday. Basically, she was so nice she said I could have him from 3:00pm Saturday (the day of his b-day) until Sunday at 7:30pm. This is so utterly different than a couple of months ago when she told me flat out I was not going to spend his b-day with him. I'm thinking, what the...? She has been soooooooo nice about sharing our S with me since Friday, the day our attorneys talked. I would not doubt her atty advised her to stop denying my son to me.

Well, anyway, I don't remember how the conversation started but it ended the best way she knows how to end them. She accused me of something, would not let me defend myself and hung up on me when I tried. She accused me of leaving her without medical insurance this year. What happened was that last year, while upset, I did tell her I was going to drop her from the insurance. However, when I enrolled in November, I did not drop her AND I told her that. She even said to me, very coldly, "you can't drop me anyway, because the law requires that you have me while we are still married." I told her I didn't know what the law said, I was doing it because I love her. This is from a woman who in September told me she hated the fact that she had insurance through me instead of through herself.

So now she tells me she was hurt when I told her I was going to drop her insurance and I tried to remind her that our last conversation about the topic was that I did not drop her. See, here's the deal, she knows I don't have a good memory so she's trying to play me that way. I told her that doesn't work on me anymore because I started writing and keeping track of everything I told her and I was ABSOLUTELY sure the last thing I said to her was she still had the insurance.

The other thing she does to me, which she has done on numerous ocassions, is tell me that the conversation is not making her feel well. She knows that since I want to save the M this will prompt me to tell her "ok, I'm sorry you feel that way, I will let you go now," and therefore not allow me to defend myself. She knows this drives me crazy.

She also told me "I don't want to tell you what I think about you." I replied that if I am doing something that is affecting my son to let me know. She insists she does not want to tell me but that she's willing to tell me in front of a MC. So immediately I took her up on the offer and I told her I have an appt this Thursday, I invited her to come with me, I would pay. She said that my IC has taken my side already. My IC was actually my W's IC before I went to him. I then reminded her that may not be the case so she said I was right, but if she felt he had chosen my side she would not continue to go. This is her ticket out to say "see, I tried." So, I said again, "let's go this Thursday." She immediately said that she had plans. I told her, "you see." She said, "you know, I was going to tell you my plans but now I won't because of your remark." She knows I am a very curious person who under normal circumstances would try everything to find out what those plans were. More games.

One of the things I asked her is I wanted to understand her logic for asking some things in the divorce papers that to me seem ridiculous. I did not tell her they were ridiculous, all I told her was it didn't make sense to me. Her response was the her lawyer told her to put it in there. I said, "Mrs. UC, you are an intelligent woman, I know that for a fact, I am surprised that you would allow your atty to put something in there that you were not comfortable with." She did not have a response for that.

She knows what buttons to push.

Alright, I'm tired of all this. When will this end? I know I should have not called her nor allowed myself to continue the conversation. You may get the 2x4 out but I think I learned my lesson. I know it hurts me to talk to her so why was I stupid enough to call? I don't know, one of my weak moments, I guess. No excuses are valid.

Thanks for reading this if you made it this far. I think I just needed to put into writing some of what I was feeling.

I wonder, for how long can a person run away from their conscience? I've often thought she knows what I'm saying is true and when I tell her those truths she does not want to hear them so she turns it around and makes me out to be the bad guy. Darn that conscience, it gets in the way of happiness.

I love my son. I love my wife. I don't know how with everything she's doing but I do love her. Am I sick? Am I a fool in love? Am I stupid? Why can't I just let go. It seems to me it only took her about 2-3 months to let me go and go to the OM. Why is it taking me this long to let go? I can't handle this. I've always thought if she and I were ever adversaries she would beat me easily, she's emotionally stronger than I am. I sometimes feel I'm fighting a losing battle.

What am I battling, you may ask. First, I tried to save the M all of last year. I now feel I gave it all I could and was defeated. Now I'm fighting for my S. I strongly believe he needs to get out of that house until our divorce and their R is more stable. I haven't had a chance to post the things he told me over the weekend but it is obvious to me he's being affected. To give you a little taste of that future post, my S believes his mom has "fibbed" as he put it and asks why she is sleeping with OM if she's married to dad? OM and wife sleep on a sofa bed in the living room and the kids cannot go downstairs except for emergencies such as going to the bathroom. Hypothetical question: what if my son were to go downstairs while they are having sex? It's a living room, shouldn't adults do what they do behind closed doors? Besides, he hasn't had time to adjust to our separation (he still wants mom to be married to dad) nor to adjust to the new R. Anyway, more later.

The other battle I'm fighting is for the terms of the divorce. She wants to kick me out of our house. I don't understand why, she's exactly where she wants to live, with OM. She's claiming so much cash that she "brought" into the M as if I brought nothing. She's claiming a debt to her parents recently acquired which she ended up using to move back to the midwest because I was paying her child support AND quite a few of her living expenses. She still hasn't found a job, etc. I know you are hearing my side of the story only, but trust me, I have papers to prove all this.

Thanks again.

<small>[ February 11, 2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: utterlyconfused ]</small>

Ok...yes, you blew it! LOL sorry, but if that's plan B, you blew it.

Yes, you do have to talk to W about DS...but as soon as the birthday talk was settled...YOU should have said you needed to go.

Next time before any calls...have a plan "exit speech" decided on and then STICK to it. Go ring your door bell or something, anything to get off the phone. If you are NOT on the phone, she can't push your buttons. Keep ALL talk to issues dealing with DS.

As long as she is still living with OM...I really don't see the point in MC. jmho But that's your call to make if she agrees to go.

As for the last part of your post...you are still trying because you still care. Nothing wrong with that.

I do hope that if your W continues in her relationship that you get custody of your DS, that is not a healthy environment for him. You seem to be the more stable parent...which is something he needs very badly right now.

Good Luck!

Hi UC,

Gotta get you to reverse babble better! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Have you read Dr James Dobson's book 'love must be tough'? It is a good one. Will help you with your responses and hiding those buttons.

As for your son, well you are going to have to be the one to protect his little heart. It is dangerous to have him in that environment. Your W is NOT protecting him by allowing him to be around a strange man (make sure you reiterate that to your son).

My son and I practiced how we would act if the OW was encountered. I must say that I had to ask my son to restrain himself since his idea was to tell her off (hm..... wonder where he got that temper from? - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

Practice how you will respond to her antics. NOtice how you are stable in your stance but she seems to be the fickle one? Either way, you have no idea how she will be minute to minute. That is typical for a WS. Neither can they remember their antics.

So if you think she is playing memory games on you, try it back on her and you may find that her memory is not that great.

Next time she says you make her feel ill, let her know that same goes for her. Playing back their own words at them makes them uncomfortable and then they get to replay their own words back in their ears.

See the WS and OP usually like to discuss the BS and family and plan new strageties. Did you know you might be the hot topic of their conversation? Now use that to your advantage. The more you play back the WS excuses to them, then when they recall your conversations guess whose words come out.

For some strange reason, the WS likes to replay the BS' words to the OP and then the OP usually coaches the WS how to react and setup the BS the next time. So these WS have a coach! Yikes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hm...... well our coaches are much better and we are not fickle!

So practice in the mirror and learn how to hide those buttons.

take care,
L.

thanks both of you.

just a wifey,

yes, I admit I blew it! I've consulted with Jennifer a couple of times and she has me on Plan B, so yes it goes against Plan B. You and Orchid both see that my son is not in the best environment. Why can't everyone else? Right now the most important person who can see it is the judge, but my lawyer says we have to prove it so therefore we are ordering custody evaluation. Problem is this may take months and in the meantime my son is growing up with an utterly immoral stranger and confused as to why he's there.

As far as MC, I will dismiss that. I should tell her that if she is interested in going to an MC it is when she's ready to work on the M and that means NC with OM. I will first run this by my IC.

Orchid,

Reverse babble! Of course, how can I have forgotten? What I found out is that when I'm in the middle of it, I forget all this stuff.

You are so right when you mention their coaches. I've known this all along. He just went through a divorce that ended two weeks ago; it took him 13 months. Since she met him she has come up with so much stuff I didn't think she knew about divorce, it was incredible! Her provocation techniques have never been her. And the divorce papers? I recall when she said to me a few months ago that she wanted an amicable divorce and only wanted 50% of our net worth. I guess amicable divorce to her means having it her way and oh, by the way, she wants the house, restraining orders against me so I cannot come near her or her son, and claims having brought cash to the M that should be given back to her, etc. etc.

Thanks again. It feels like the road gets tougher every day and I don't see an end in sight. But I am firm in my belief that this is the lot I was dealt in life and I have to make the best out of it and that I am doing all this for my son as well as myself. I can no longer do it for her sake. You cannot save those who don't want to be saved.

<small>[ February 12, 2003, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: utterlyconfused ]</small>

UC,

I understand your concern with your son's environment but to be quite honest I don't think the court is going to frown on the fact that your W (who has filed for D) is sleeping with the man that she has moved in with.

If she were neglecting your son's well being or exposing him to illegal activities you might have a better chance of proving his environment to be inadequate.

I think the best you can hope for is equal shared custody 50/50.

I also wanted to point out another LB that you may not be aware of. Some may differ on this.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't feel hate nor contempt for her and my family and friends fear that this may be my downfall because she knows me and knows how emotional I can be.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that women prefer their man to be emotionally strong and secure. That's not to say that a tear can't flow here and there when the situation demands it. I think that women find it a turn-off for their man to beg, plead, cry, whine, etc. to get them back. (I'm not pointing fingers, mind you.) If she knows that you are vulnerable to her jerking of your emotional chain, then that may be a LB. She may prefer that you show a bit less emotion(the kind listed above) and a lot more stability in what would normally be an emotional situation.

jmho
tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

UC- You don't hate her because you still love her. I have said before that I hate my WW, I realized that I do really still love her, I just hate what she is doing.

UC quote- "The other thing she does to me, which she has done on numerous ocassions, is tell me that the conversation is not making her feel well."

That is her problem if she doesn't like to hear how much her actions and the A are affecting you. JMO. It seems to me that they don't like to hear those things because then they start to feel guilty.

UC quote- "I wonder, for how long can a person run away from their conscience?"

Some people will always run! For others this is only a bandaid and reality will catch up to them later. I truely feel that what goes around, comes around. God will deal with your WW and the OM in His own way.

UC quote- "It seems to me it only took her about 2-3 months to let me go and go to the OM. Why is it taking me this long to let go?"

Others may yell at me for this but I feel it is because she left long ago. She long ago gave up on letting you meet her needs and let another person meet those needs. She doesn't want the M to work so she can justify her actions. You still love her and you are going through the steps of grief.

Good luck getting custody of your S. I know nothing about that but I will pray for you.
STTSI