Hello everyone,

WW yesterday said in no uncertain terms that she never wanted a divorce! To make me feel since I filed for the legal seperation like the one who quit.

My response was simply "Was your behavior consistent with not wanting a divorce."

Didn't it occur to you that divorce was a possibilty if you have had an affair, lied about it being over, and being hateful ever since then minus all the "false recoveries"--

Then she said I love Rly and I don't want a divorce. I am not happy. When just ONE WEEK AGO it rang from her voice that I AM HAPPIER WITH OUT YOU.

So confused. So I threw a curve back at her. I said if you don't want this and being a family is your goal like you said...Lets go to counselling.

She agreed of course...but acted as if she never said it this morning.

Do I play my cards close to my vest now. I would say the ball is in her court more than ever.

Sh!#@% I don't know. I am confused.

I sure would love to hear from you guys.

Have a nice day

Rly - she sounds "normal" to me.

By that, I mean normal for having her brains scrambled.

I validate your confusion. I witnessed similar mind contortions - but so do most BSs whose WSs are in romantic affairs.

Here's the most valuable advice you'll get on this forum for this stage of the affair: don't take anything she says seriously.

The very best thing you can do is remember that she is not thinking rationally. You cannot possibly comprehend her logic - because she has none.

Important sentence follows: She is WAY more confused than you are.

Think of her as an adolescent. A confused teenie bopper - at best! She has no idea what she wants or when. The best thing for you to do is to sit back, just watch, and NOT take any of this seriously or personally - when you do, you get confused and frustrated.

OK?

RLY-

Stay on course.

She's still VERY much in the FOG. Watch her ACTIONS, not her words.

Time is on YOUR side. You have no reason to believe at this point that she is ready to turn around. Detach - give it a few days. You will have a clearer picture about it then.

Worth & Kily:

Thanks a million for your responses. The OM moved 45 miles away. I THINK their deal is "over" and that he wanted to get away from her.

However I don't know for 100% if its over or not. She swears up and down that it is and admits to being in a "fog" but you guys are right this sounds like fog doesn't it? I am confused, we are seperated and I don't want to snoop but their are still clues albeit minor clues that they still speak.

Clue #1- She HAD to include her cell phone service to include the city he lives in and she has a pre-paid calling card #2. I pay all the bills so she probably doesn't want me to see who she is calling. Why would it matter? We are seperated legally and its none of my business.

Then again I may be over reacting. She still just acts so strange.

Actions speak louder than words...I know that. But I don't know what actions to look for in trying to detect honesty & sincerity.

Help

Hi Guys--

Really seraching for wise MB'ers opionions. Can a leapord change its spots? What clues will I have that she is being honest.

Is it once a cheat always a cheat?

Is this crappy situation worth my hearts energy?

Why don't I have more pride? It should be her making the effort right? If she didn't want this why did she behave like she did! Shouldn't I be the "hunted now" and not the "hunter"

I am normally such a level headed person, I feel like I am going nuts

rlyhurtin,

Can a leapord change its spots? What clues will I have that she is being honest.

Ask yourself this. You being the leapord, the BS who is doing a plan A, had to make changes yourself to become a better man and husband. Did you not change your spots? Can you change your spots? Yes a leapord can change there spots. The clues you are looking for are not in the words you are hearing but the actions you are slowly seeing. Take a step back and look at the big picture. Has your wife shown you the slightest amount of changes in her actions?

Is it once a cheat always a cheat?

This depends on how optimistic or pesimistic one is don't you think? I sure hope not and I think under the right circumstances that no, a cheat is not always a cheat. Give it some time as the other posters have said.

Is this crappy situation worth my hearts energy?

Only you can answer this question and you probably already know the answer or you wouldn't be here. If you truly love your wife and your marriage then you will continue to trudge through the mirk of this crappy situation until you have nothing left to give. I don't think you're at that point yet. Patience and then some more patience. Easier said then done, don't I know it.

Why don't I have more pride? It should be her making the effort right? If she didn't want this why did she behave like she did! Shouldn't I be the "hunted now" and not the "hunter"

Pride will kill recovery for both of you. Neither one of you can afford to have too much pride in this. What is pride in this case anyway? The act of holding on to resentment? Both parties have to let go of the past and put resentment aside. You both have it. Yes, in a perfect world it would be the WS trying to make all the effort but this isn't a perfect world. She is confused, hurt, ashamed, quilty and scared. She has to work through this on her own time schedule I'm afraid. This is reality. Keep showing her a safe environment where you protect her and love her even though you won't see much in return right now. She is seeing it but very reluctant to show you. Once again give it time. It sucks big time but this is the situation.

I am normally such a level headed person, I feel like I am going nuts

Right with you there. It's ok to be going nuts. If you weren't then there would be something wrong. Just try and live day to day for awhile. Give her sometime to feel safe from the pressure of recovering now. Eventually she will start to feel safe enough to talk with you about this.

I don't know your situation as much as I should but I hope that some of this helps. You are certainly not alone in your feelings. Nuts, whacko, crazy and all the other descriptions all apply. Give yourself a break from this as well.

Hello Rly,

I am sorry you are here but you have found a good place to share your thoughts and feelings. Keep in mind that feelings are neither right or wrong, they are just your feelings. It all boils down to how you act upon your feelings.

One day at a time my friend. Step back for a moment and ask yourself what you really want. Sounds like you want to stay married. She needs reassurance just as much as you do.

There is no shame in doing what ever you need to do to save your marriage. Pride? What's pride got to do with anything? This is your life your talking about. You're going to let pride stand in the way? Shed your pride and start showing your wife that you still love her. What have you got to lose?

God Bless You Both.

RLY-

I can HONESTLY tell you that I am living proof that cheaters do NOT always cheat.

I agree whole heartedly with Mark's response to your questions.

I know this sounds lame, but I believe that if a WS is truly sincere, then you WILL know. Maybe it's something in the way that they act, talk, look, or react. I think it's all of those things plus the complete lack of defensiveness when they finally admit to their wrongs and apologize. There will be a very open feel that they have about them that had not been present during the whole A.

Thanks All for your insightful responses! I really appreceite your thoughts.

WW just called and said she was going to see a counsller and asked me what I thought. All I said was "Glad to hear you are considering that."
And said that the goal of a counsller (As Harley says) Is to restore the feelings of love not merely conflict resolution.

This is going to sound weird...In a way I feel bad that she has to be "sold" on the idea of loving me. That part hurts.

Another thing I dread is that she is still in her A and addicted to him even though she swears to the Allmighty that it has ended and she has nothing but contempt for him for "leading her on"

That hurts...She has contempt for him leading her on???? Sorry It didn't work out for ya.

Oh well, is it positive she is seeking counselling? She has to be honest with the counseller though! She/We have had alot of counselling and she hasn't been honest about details, NC etc...

Oh well baby steps

Any insights would be helpful

Thanks

Rly

Hi Rly,

I read your thread last night but was a bit too tired to respond then.

Mark96's response was ENORMOUSLY helpful and wonderful to read. I was moved to tears to see how he understands his WW. Any of us who have strayed in our marriages could only hope for forgiveness such as his and yours too, Rly.

I quoted some of Mark's words here on a thread I started to Olderandwiser. I hope that's okay.

I'm glad to hear that your wife is considering counselling. Please don't give up on her! As Kily says, watch her actions.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This is going to sound weird...In a way I feel bad that she has to be "sold" on the idea of loving me. That part hurts.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know how you feel. We all want to feel loved without the idea of someone having to be sold on it.

You then said,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Another thing I dread is that she is still in her A and addicted to him even though she swears to the Allmighty that it has ended and she has nothing but contempt for him for "leading her on"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suppose many of the BS's here will say that they too have this same fear. It's understandable.

I know it's hard for you to believe she was 'led on', but maybe it was her choice of words that didn't make sense. Maybe, like me, she's a bit weak deep down--and this OM was more domineering than her, and convinced her to have the A? I know it's no excuse, but some people are extremely forceful and seductive. They know how to read others, and they say JUST what they want and need to hear, at that moment. Maybe this is what your wife meant?

It's VERY POSITIVE she wants to see a counselor. Please make that appointment and get her there right away.

Must go, no privacy here...

take care,
HP
ps no time to proofread, excuse mistakes

Hi Guys! You guys seem so under control and smart. I wish I could keep a lvel head thru this.

Well WW called me this morning. Kind of cold and discussing the sale of our house. This is of course after she said she wanted to go to counselling etc...She said I am not going to live in limbo and "I don't want to hurt your feelings" but we need to sell our house. I was calm and said "I understand...press forward" (on getting a new realotor)--I guess I was a bit taken back. Warm & Kind one day--cold & "all business" the next.--I am not going to pursue a reconsilliation anymore. I can't make her do anything, I guess I'll just be a friend and a great Dad. Its sad that I am so vulnerable to her and hang on her every word. WTF? I am stonger than that, I just wish I could act like it.

***Please Help***

Hey Guys:

Thanks for putting up with my crap. If any of you are WW's that were on the fence not nessecarily about OM or Spouse but a married relationship with spouse or not would (Or both)

What is your advise? I feel like a confused kid and I hate being in this position.

If you are not a WW your advise would be much welcomed as well.

Guys, I know I ask for alot of advise and I Am sorry...I know its a pain but what ever I am doing isn't working.

Thanks

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rlyhurtin:
<strong>Hi Guys! You guys seem so under control and smart. I wish I could keep a lvel head thru this.

Well WW called me this morning. Kind of cold and discussing the sale of our house. This is of course after she said she wanted to go to counselling etc...She said I am not going to live in limbo and "I don't want to hurt your feelings" but we need to sell our house. I was calm and said "I understand...press forward" (on getting a new realotor)--I guess I was a bit taken back. Warm & Kind one day--cold & "all business" the next.--I am not going to pursue a reconsilliation anymore. I can't make her do anything, I guess I'll just be a friend and a great Dad. Its sad that I am so vulnerable to her and hang on her every word. WTF? I am stonger than that, I just wish I could act like it.

***Please Help***</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By her chilly behavior towards you, I would not be surprised if she is back in contact with OM.

You were given great advise by WAT and Kily about letting her actions (and not her words) be your guide to the truth.

Consider going dark (Plan B) and not contacting her for anything except child care related issues.

Coffee Man-

I am confused. Why would you say that. Is that a symptom? She is so pleasant and kind, and wanting to work things out, then cold.

Why does that lead you to believe that? I mean I trust your opinion but why?

Her Mom is living with her in MY house, would she dare still be in contact? Oh well, she has been dishonest before, why should it stop now?

Thanks

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rlyhurtin:
<strong>Why would you say that. Is that a symptom? She is so pleasant and kind, and wanting to work things out, then cold. Why does that lead you to believe that? I mean I trust your opinion but why? Her Mom is living with her in MY house, would she dare still be in contact? Oh well, she has been dishonest before, why should it stop now?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry to jump in but this is exactly the actions of continued contact. Fog whatever you want to call it just plays havoc with their discussions with you.

My WW constantly berates me because we are divorcing. Yes I filed, because she hammered it into me that it was what she wanted. Of course now she continues to berate me that it was I who filed. Well I just keep telling her to read her Plan B letter and I cant talk about it.

Coffeeman is right you should change tactics.

And as for the Mother - don't even get me started on that one! Blood is far thicker than water. Neil.

Thanks Porche...Wow that sucks. How could she look at herself in a mirror and tell me she wants to work things out while carrying on with the other man. The writing is on the wall as far as our divorce we are legally seperated so the agreement is in place on how life will be during the full blown D.

Why is that syptomatic of continued contact with OM? I guess I don't understand. Could it be a new OM? She told me she had nothing but contempt for the Original OM. Heck who knows. I never thought that she is still in her A. OM supposeadly broke it off with her. OM #2? Who knows. Like when I was married, I beleive everything I hear.

That sucks. I couldn't imagine her doing it right under her Mom's nose, then again she may be enabling it. Because she just wants her daughter
to be happy.

Boy If I was other man, I would be pissed. She does contact me frequently and say ILY 1-2 per week.

Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMMMM

I am one confused dude.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rlyhurtin:
Coffee Man-

I am confused. Why would you say that. Is that a symptom? She is so pleasant and kind, and wanting to work things out, then cold.

Why does that lead you to believe that? I mean I trust your opinion but why?

Thanks</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said that because so many BS here discovered that the reason why their WS did a 180 degree emotional turn, was because the OP was back in their WS lives and naturally the cold, and indifferent behavior towards the BS was also back once more.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her Mom is living with her in MY house, would she dare still be in contact? Oh well, she has been dishonest before, why should it stop now?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Many times the in laws are either in the dark themselves or if they do know, they are enabling their child's A by keeping it a secret from the BS.

As far as your WW daring to be in contact with OM while her mother is living at your house, why not? She did it while you lived there, so what's to stop her just because her mom is there with her? Remember that a WS shares many traits with a drug addict, including lying to spouses, friends, and relatives, just to get their fix.

Rly,
I wish I could offer some sort of advice at this time but I really can't . Coffeeman and Neil both give great advice.

I will say that perhaps your wife is confused still and in withdrawal, or maybe she still is involved with another person. It sounds though like your wife is testing the waters in every direction, to see what she can get away with --with different persons. If you really love her, and want her...let her know that, but insist that there is NC with ANY other man.

One other thing, if you want to work things out...why aren't you two living together? Have I missed something completely here?

Take care,
H_P

Hopeful-

I like you live about 1/2 mile from my spouse. Ex-Spouse what ever...

When she says she wants to work things out, go on dates, go to counselling, go to a MB weekend etc...I think she senses that I get too excited, then she acts as if she never said those things to me.

I mean how weird is it. Like I said before...On the very same night she left me a voice mail saying she is excited about our future and wants me to pursue a "new house" for a "new begginning" she writes an e-mail spelling out that we shouldn't let our money go to "waste" that we spent on laywers for our legal seperation and that she will be needing 17% of my bonus as spelled out in the seperation agreement.

Its classic "Approach then Avoid"--I have listened to her empty words and Coffee Man is right. I should let HER ACTIONS be my guide to the truth. To be honest, I don't know if she is still in contact with OM or OMen. I have my suspiciuons but I NEVER ASK. I do want my wife back, but I can't live with her if her ACTIONS are dishonest, insincere, always looking for greener grass, besides who wants to live with someone who doesn't ACT LIKE they love you or ACT LIKE they want you.

So her behavior is "normal" if she is still in her "A" (which she would deny) or she is just plain "wacko"--Or the third choice is maybe she just hates my guts for some reason. But I really wish she would stop trying to kiss me, tell me "I'm the best", etc...If she hates me and wants to move on.

Hopeful...What do you think?

MB Forum, What do you think?

Thanks All

Just Another Vent....

**** I am so upset **** I just wish this pain and confusion would go away.

Its been over a year since A was confirmed its been 3 since I suspected something and started being treated like crap

Its been six months of seperation 4 of those being "Legal"

And I am still just as hurt, scared and confused.
Why do I want her so much when I should be thinking I shouldn't want her after all of this.

Why Do I still lover her when all she has done for 3 years was make "With Drawls" and not met actually any of my most important EN's

Wow