All of her ILY's are not worth a thing if she isn't committed to following a plan of marital recovery that incorporates the MB principles. Have you proposed one to her? if so, what was her reaction? I ask you these questions because your M ain't going to get better if BOTH of you aren't following one.

She is playing mindgames with you. My advice is to do a firm Plan B. Outline the conditions for reconciliation and don't pursue a relationship with her unless she complies. Meanwhile focus on improving yourself for the next relationship either with or without her.

Coffe/Tommaz:

Thanks. I think you are right. It hurts to see her act like such a phony! I thought she was my best freind.

Plan B eh? Isn't plan b to seperate her from her "lover"---I am not 100% positive she is invloved in her A still or involved in any relationship for that matter.

Its funny this morning she sent a bunch of people her new e-mail address, there were several people.
One of them happened to be an ex-lover (prior to meeting me) They actually were really great freinds that had sex a few times, but she always new how much that relationship bothered me. She always couldn't figure out why I thought it to be innappropraite that their freindship continued for many years. In any rate...Long ago I probably over-reacted as to being uncomfortable about that deal, but she doesn't seem to care now thats for sure. Oh well. I'll just have toaccept that IF (And thats a BIG IF) we ever reconsile.

Anyways...back to Plan B. If (Another Big If) she isn't in any type of A, isn't Plan B a bit harsh?

Coffe/Tommaz-

You know guys, the more I think about it, you guys are right. This has gone on too long. Again last night the brand new Wedding Ring I got her last year (To say ILY and I forgive You) was back on her finger last night. She doesn't call my attention to it but geeez. What is it to her.

Is it a wedding ring and what all that symbolizes or is it just a pretty piece of jewelry.

It hurts

I must have DOORMAT written all over my face. Am I allowing this?

WW called me at work to tell me to take a "sick day" because she was feeling under the wheather so I could come take care of her.

***STOP THE MADNESS****

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Its funny this morning she sent a bunch of people her new e-mail address, there were several people.One of them happened to be an ex-lover (prior to meeting me) They actually were really great freinds that had sex a few times, but she always knew how much that relationship bothered me. She always couldn't figure out why I thought it to be innappropraite that their freindship continued for many years. In any rate...Long ago I probably over-reacted as to being uncomfortable about that deal, but she doesn't seem to care now thats for sure. Oh well. I'll just have toaccept that IF (And thats a BIG IF) we ever reconsile.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">More proof that your WW doesn't care about your feelings because if she did, she would have NOT have continued with her friendship with her ex-lover, especially now that her A has been discovered. She has shown that she is a person that has no boundaries to guard against an A. I would point out to her that her actions are in total contradiction to her words about not wanting a divorce and leave her alone to think about that.

Hi Rly,
Sorry for all of the confusion in your life. Just be strong for your girls, remember that! They need your strength and stability.

Coffeeman is right,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She has shown that she is a person that has no boundaries to guard against an A. I would point out to her that her actions are in total contradiction to her words about not wanting a divorce and leave her alone to think about that.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's so very right. Your wife continuing to email a man you don't want her to email shows exactly that her actions don't fit her words. Follow his advice!

Take care,
H_P

She will make you crazy as long as you give her the power to make you crazy. It seems that she is really getting off seeing you jump through hopes and getting excited so she can pop your balloon the next day. Like Coffeeman said, it says a great deal that she stayed in contact with an ex lover all these years against your wishes. Look she has been playing you for a fool for a long time. I think you take it because your ego is so involved. Let me ask you this: if you knew then what you know now would you have still wished to have married her and go through this hell? The way to stop the mental torture is to take away the power of the torturer by not reacting and move on to a happier life. If you had never met her don't you think you would have met someone else who would have treated you with more integrity and respect than her? Stop the madness and take control of your life and stop allowing her to play mind games with you. She is a sick individual who is making you sick just like her. Don't allow her to do this to you anymore. I wish you luck.

Guys-

Thanks for your reply and I need your immediate advice to see if this was a LB

She sent me a reply e-mail after I made a comment about that I tried rock climbing (Something New)

She said: WOW Its seems as if you have an active and healthy social life. Gee my freinds have all turned their backs on me. Enjoy going on that cruise I am sure there will be plant of "social opportunites" on there.

I felt bad.

Now tell me if I LBed

I relplyed.

WW, I am sorry you feel this way. I know how you feel to have important people in your life turn their back on you. I for one will not turn my back on you.

How you feel is how you feel. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. These are your feelings therefore you are right. Your friends shouldn't turn their back on you just because you fell out of love with me. You own your feelings and they are yours who am I or anyone else to deny them to you.

Oh and by the way I invited you on that cruise months ago. I want you to have a happy and fufilled life and I can't bury my head in the sand just because my wife dumped me.

Said some more "matter of fact things" and said

Take Care of Yourself WW

Rly

Ps- Not that I feel a tremendous desire to defend her, but she wasn't in contact with her ex during our M. She has been since we have been seperated.

No big deal, its her life and who am I anymore to say what she can and can't do.

How did I do

Please Help

Sorry for the ***bump***

But what do you folks think. Is it in her DNA to get angry when she detects a hint or just a smidgen of confidence or a sign I am happy or moving on.

rly,

I have seen some of the same patterns in my W's behaviour.

Beleive it or not, it makes sense to me, but for the life of me, I don't think I can explain it.

I'll try.

1) She doesn't really know what she wants.

2) She does value you in some way. When it seems that you are drifting away from her, she wants to reel you back in - just to keep you in case she needs you later. As soon as she sees you coming back, she runs away again - confident that you are chasing.

The good thing about this, is that you can choose to drift away a little and she will chase you down. Don't be "easy". When she chases you be a little hard to catch. I think she actually fears losing you. Use that.

3) I think the others were right - that her being cold to you is a sign of contact with OM. I saw similar behaviour - and also the opposite - she would be really nice to me out of guilt. Any sudden change in her behaviour (positive or negative) which is unexplained by anything you know about is likely tied to OM.

I'm going to stop numbering things now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think your W is really insecure. She keeps contact with her old BF (in addition to OM) because she needs to feel desirable to remember that other men might want her.

Just because your W says she "hates" OM - or is disgusted by him, doesn't mean much. Any strong feeling toward him indicates that it isn't over. What you really want is for her to be indifferent to him. Whenever my W says she hates OM, I know that in two days she's going to be feeling like she loves him again.

Ok, enough from me!

-AD

<small>[ May 14, 2003, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

We have counselling on Monday w Steve Harley. Would it be a love buster to ask her if she is still involved with OM since its pretty much the consensus on this post that she is.

Do you think I will ruin things by asking her if she is still involved w him

rly,

Hmmmm. I don't know if it helps to ask. She can lie. She can tell the truth. If she says "no", will you believe her? If she says "yes", will you give up on her? What are you going to do with the answer? Since you asked before and she said "no" and you didn't entirely believe her, I don't see any point in asking.

How did you get her to agree to participate in the counselling? That seems to indicate that she has some desire to fix the marriage - and, of course, is a good thing.

-AD

<small>[ February 20, 2003, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Ad-

That is an excellent point. I guess the reason is, we had an outstanding counseller right after D-Day one year ago and she was lying to him.

I guess I don't care how good Steve, Jennifer are at counselling etc...Why bother if she is lying?

I mean I don't think I would be devestated if she was, after all we are "legally seperated" "broken up" etc...If she is, she is. But obviously that would be a pretty big roadblock don't you think

Rly

rly,

Of course, continued contact is a very serious problem, but if your W is willing to participate in counseling, it seems worthwhile to try it. Maybe she will not be honest with the counselor. I don't know, but what is the goal? Confession? If she is willing to talk to the C, that must mean that either she is trying to prove that the M is hopeless - or that she is trying to save the marriage. I think it's a good thing and I would have gone for it if my W was willing.

-AD

Well AD,

Thats another interesting thought. Maybe she is trying to prove the marriage is hopeless?

Ad, did your marriage survive? If so how. What things did you do.

I am scared because I don't know if I am "In love" anymore. I know I could be but...

Oh well, I am already divorced/legally seperated anyway, what do I have to lose.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh well, I am already divorced/legally seperated anyway, what do I have to lose.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Then why are you calling her your 'W' instead of your 'ex-W'?.

Coffeeman-

Why do I say W instead of Ex-W. Because we are legally seperated. Married, but just on paper.

How would you comment on my situation?

Hi everyone,

How does depression play in to the picture of a WW or WS. My WW has always been mildly depressed (always saw glass as half empty) type of person.

But since what was the beginning of her A she got severely depressed. In fact I remember a time I came home from work to "run the show" because she wouldn't get out of bed.

Yes we are going to talk with Steve Harley, but she is pretty low. Low. Last night she said "My life has been a series of poor choice after poor choice. I am a failure, I failed at marriage etc..." I tried cheering her up by saying we haven't "failed yet"---She of course would hear none of it.

She told me the only way for our marriage to work is if we move far away...I didn't say anything but I thought this was kind of a selfish demand. I have an outstanding job which has been a blessing, friends, family etc...I mean if she can't love me here what makes her think she could love me in TINBUCK-TO?

We live in a small town, does she feel too much embarassment associated with everyone knowing about our problems? Heck I don't know.

She is depressed and she told me a month ago that she was happier than ever that I was gone, the pressure was off and she was getting off her anti-deps. Last night..She says I am not happy and should have never got off the anti-deps.

A true whirlwind

Could use some help

Yes depression does seem to be a commont trait among many WS's and the A is their attempt to self-medicate. So your case is not particularly unusual in that respect.

Maybe a good tactic for you to consider is not to expect that your M is going to survive, but until the day comes when both of you go your separate ways, you can try to create an emotionally safe environment where she can open up to you and trust you with her inner most thoughts and feelings. Remember that many A's start precisely this way, and if you can do this then there is a chance that she can start to develop strong feelings of love for you once more. By not expecting your M to survive, you also learn to detach emotionally and are able to get off the emotional rollercoaster ride you've gone thru. Give it some thought.