H4F,

First off, I hope you and Mr. H4F had a great Valentine's day.

I had some questions for you on the end of my last post, but you may not have seen them or it got lost on page 2 or 3.

1. When you "came out of the fog" as you often refer to, was it a slow process or did you just finally hit bottom and "BAM!", a lightblub went off?

2. Was your "fog" the result of your A or just your general unhappiness?

3. I think I am going to tell my W that I still don't this D, but I'm going to wait until she gets settled in her new place. If after a month or so she hasn't started proceeding with the D, I'm going to ask her about it and let her know how I feel. With custody and the house issues settled, she has no more excuses for dragging her feet on it. I'll be sitting on pins and needles for the next few weeks.

I talked to my W earlier tonight and she was home, so I guess she spent Valentine's day alone. Also, when I stopped at the house earlier in the week, I notice 2 empty 12pk boxes in the trash. This wasn't the first time. Unless she had company, she's been drinking alone, which has me a little concerned. It's not typical for her.

Thanks,
sad dad

<small>[ February 14, 2003, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

Saddad, sorry, no I didn't see your last questions. I noticed you bumped your post but I guess I missed the questions!

We did have a lovely Valentines day. For one thing we got caught up on some much needed sleep. Had a very nice relaxing time, did some shopping and had lots of quality time together!

In answer to your questions:

The actual coming out of the fog permanently was pretty much a Big-Bang type of thing. I had been processing things for two years already and was just following the path I thought I was destined to take because of my decisions and lack of seeing any other possibilities. It seemed like the answers were there but pride and emotion (and pure stubborness) were standing in the way of me doing anything about ANYTHING. I think I might have ridden the fence as absolutly long as possible if I weren't pushed in any other direction. So the answers were there...I had moments of peeking out of the fog...but the actual head-out-of-butt moment came all at once.

What was the fog about? Well, it was the overall unhappiness that led to the A...that led to the fog. So it was really a combination of both that held me there. Looking back with everything I've learned from here and books...I KNOW the fog skewed my thinking constantly. I was convinced it was the marriage and H and I's incompatibilites that CAUSED my unhappiness...then I was convinced that it was the split up and impending divorce that was CAUSING my unhappiness still. But for me, I've always known what my dream of marriage and family were...and I KNEW it didn't include divorce or dating! I wanted the life we had, only better. I just really didn't believe I could have it with my H. That was fear based...fog based...whatever. Emotion can really blur your vision. Anyway, the logical part of my brain took over once in a while and I could see my own inconsistancies. I could see that I was the major part of my problem.

I think that sounds fine if you want to still let her know you'd like to reconcile. It gives her one last. I would be very worried about the drinking. If she is drinking alone, she needs help, and if she's drinking with other people I'd want to make sure it wasn't when your daughter is around!

Hope that helps... I know the waiting is killing you. Try to find some way to focus and relax. I can be the mother of worriers, but I try to calm myself and remember that worrying is wasted energy. You can't predict the future...and all things considered, it's difficult to even fathom a tiny amount of what COULD happen. You just absolutely never know!! Take care!!

H4F,

Thanks for your reply. I'm going to think about it and respond later, but I'm heading out the door with my daughter. If you have a chance, please chek back tomorrow.

sad dad

Will do! Have a good day with the little one!

H4F,

"The actual coming out of the fog permanently was pretty much a Big-Bang type of thing. I had been processing things for two years already and was just following the path I thought I was destined to take because of my decisions and lack of seeing any other possibilities. It seemed like the answers were there but pride and emotion (and pure stubborness) were standing in the way of me doing anything about ANYTHING. I think I might have ridden the fence as absolutly long as possible if I weren't pushed in any other direction. So the answers were there...I had moments of peeking out of the fog...but the actual head-out-of-butt moment came all at once."

This really seem to be where my W's at. She made up her mind that this was the right thing to do, and I think she now knows it won't solve anything, but as was the case with you, she's too proud or stubborn to admit she might be wrong or that there may be other possibilities. I think if I hadn't taken the initiative on the house I'd still be waiting for her to do something about it.

"What was the fog about? Well, it was the overall unhappiness that led to the A...that led to the fog. So it was really a combination of both that held me there. Looking back with everything I've learned from here and books...I KNOW the fog skewed my thinking constantly. I was convinced it was the marriage and H and I's incompatibilites that CAUSED my unhappiness...then I was convinced that it was the split up and impending divorce that was CAUSING my unhappiness still. But for me, I've always known what my dream of marriage and family were...and I KNEW it didn't include divorce or dating! I wanted the life we had, only better. I just really didn't believe I could have it with my H. That was fear based...fog based...whatever. Emotion can really blur your vision. Anyway, the logical part of my brain took over once in a while and I could see my own inconsistancies. I could see that I was the major part of my problem."

Again, you seem to mirror my W. She was unhappy for reasons that I still don't think she can explain and confided in OM instead of me or her family because she was affraid to let any of us see the scared, vulnerable side of her. My W always appeared to be very self assured, headstrong person, but I think that was a cover for some deep seeded self esteem issues she always had. She admitted as much the short time we were in counseling. She blamed her parents for those issues, then me. I'm not there to blame anymore, but her issues still are.

Just as you did, she blamed her unhappiness on our marriage, which I think it a logical conclusion to draw. But as I've told you before, she admitted a few month ago that she's still not happy, won't be once we're divorced and may never be. A sad statement to make, but at least she ackowledges the problem will exist even when I'm out of the picture. She's said on a couple of occassions she never thought her life would turn out like this. Nobody wants to be divorced and starting over at 34. That's got to be frightening as hell. It is for me.

"I think that sounds fine if you want to still let her know you'd like to reconcile. It gives her one last. I would be very worried about the drinking. If she is drinking alone, she needs help, and if she's drinking with other people I'd want to make sure it wasn't when your daughter is around!"

I want her to know that buying the house was just a step that had to be made, but doesn't mean I don't still believe in and want our marriage. I don't want her to see that as a sign I've given up, but on the other hand, I want her to know that I'm ready to move on if this is how it must be. It's a slippery slope. Any advice on how to deal with that?

I am concerned about the drinking and I may bring it up. I don't think she was drinking with a friend or someone else. To be quite honest with you, the house is a total mess, a real pig sty. It's been like this for 6 months, it has nothing to do with her moving. I doubt she'd have company over. If she was drinking alone, I'd like to know why. Maybe it will lead to a frank discussion.

"Hope that helps... I know the waiting is killing you. Try to find some way to focus and relax."

I really think once I'm back in the house I'll be so busy getting it in order that it will keep my mind off things for awhile. Unfortunately that's still 2 weeks away.

Thanks so much for your help. I wish my W had the benefit of your insight.

sad dad

<small>[ February 15, 2003, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

I don't know about your wife...but I fought for clarity the whole way. I only gave up and wallowed in the pit for short periods of time. I remained pretty fogged in for almost 2 years, but in that time I also remained actively doing things to work on myself and try to move forward.

I was involved with the Redbook community boards, I read tons of books and saw a counselor. I admit it took pressure to get me to move forward, but I still did it. I played "poor me" and victim off and on, but never remained resigned to stay that way permanently. I've always been a fighter...

There were times that it felt like I was moving forward up to my knees in tar, but I just kept working at it and hoping for answers to come and for things to get easier. With the help of the antidepressants things did start to get easier...and clearer...but until I dealt with the depression nothing much made it through. I have a feeling that's where your W is stuck. She isn't dealing with the current issue...her depression.

It's a difficult area for you too...since any "help" from you might come off as a disrespectful judgement or pressure. It would REALLLLY help if her family would offer her more support and persuasion!! Don't they see how things are falling apart for her?? I dont' believe in families meddling where they aren't needed, but it seems at this point they ARE!

In all other aspects your W sounds very much like me. I just have a hard time understanding why someone would accept misery as their "fate" instead of doing something about it.

My WS seems to have come out of the FOG in a big bang. I can hardly believe it. He's a totally different person than he was 2 weeks ago when he was not thinking or acting logically.

He said my PLAN A worked. He did not call it PLAN A but he noticed that I had changed and was trying so he had to take a look at himself.

Hope this helps.

<small>[ February 16, 2003, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

H4F,

To the best of my knowledge, my W has never done anything to try to figure out what the problem is. No self-help books, no support websites, no counseling. Yes, she seems to accept her "fate". I talked to her about the possibility of depression and encouraged her to see a therapist. She told me her mother and her sister agreed that she should. She said at one time she thought she would, but as far as I know she hasn't and I haven't brought it up in months. I mentioned my concerns to my SIL several months ago, hoping she would reach out to my W, but I don't know if she did. I got the impression she wanted to stay out of it or thought my concerns may be self serving. Maybe the drinking alone will give me a chance to raise the issue with my W again.

sad dad

h4f,

I talked to my W about her drinking tonight. I told her I was concerned about it and that I've done it from time to time hoping to forget my troubles, but in the morning they're still there. She said she hasn't been drinking alot. I asked her if she was OK, and she said yes, that she doesn't drink around our daughter and thanked me for my concern. It's pretty much what I expected. Thirty beers over a couple of weeks isn't excessive, but I am worried. At least she knows I noticed and still care. I wish her family could see and hear some of the things I have.

sad dad

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

Well, you did what you could. I'm glad she said she's not doing it in front of your child, however, if she does keep it up it's still a problem. One or two a night, or even every other night, is exactly how my dad started many years ago. Drink one to relax...then you need another...next thing it's only 2 or 3 a night...then it's 6 packs and on up from there. I saw it first hand. Anyway, now she knows you noticed so hopefully she'll either think about not continuing it, or she'll hide it. Just hang in there saddad. I'm not sure which is worse. The constant roller coaster that I put us on or this tar pit that your wife has you all in!!

"I had been processing things for two years already and was just following the path I thought I was destined to take because of my decisions and lack of seeing any other possibilities. It seemed like the answers were there but pride and emotion (and pure stubborness) were standing in the way of me doing anything about ANYTHING."

"It's a difficult area for you too...since any "help" from you might come off as a disrespectful judgement or pressure."

Thanks again for the insight H4F, the stubborness and acceptance of being broken sound very much like my XW....I'm pulling for you SD and hope you find some way to break through to her. I'll be praying that she realizes that unhappiness doesn't have to be with her forever. Good luck and god bless!