We're 7 rocky, roller-coaster months from d-day; WH has put in a lot of hard work and within the last few weeks seems to have woken up properly to what he's done, and to have finally emerged from the fog.

But tonight, during a discussion about OW#4 and the difficulty of 'losing' her (she can't let go, and has found every possible means of putting herself in his path), a relatively trivial fact emerged - that he had spent a short holiday with her in 2001 under the aegis of being on a 'course'. I knew that he had travelled with her in 2002, so this should not have surprised me, and I don't think he was deliberately hiding it. But somehow, this one revelation really brought home to me how much he lied to me over those thirteen years.

The most incredible thing about those years of infidelity is how hard he worked to hide his misdeeds from me. There were many times when I felt worried, suspicious and anxious, and he used every trick in the adulterer's handbook to convince me that I was paranoid, untrusting, and probably in need of a doctor's help. Given how he convinced 4 OWs that his marriage was 'dead', it's amazing how much effort he put in to keeping me around.

And now, tonight, I really find myself thinking that I need more reward than just a functioning marriage. I know that all the advice is that getting the marriage back is worth the pain involved, but...jeez, I'm not sure. He took such advantage of me, kept me in the dark about his feelings and activities, gave me no opportunity to fix problems, had fun and excitement and thrills, while I struggled to raise a family and manage all the problems he was too 'busy' to address.

He's told me over and over that he trusts me implicitly, that he knows that I'm honourable and 100% trustworthy, that he never really trusted OW, nor she him, that my trustworthiness is hugely important to him. But why should I be so reliable? Do I just have to nurse the warm satisfaction of my own virtue? Do I have to swallow my anger for ever? I really feel I need to get my own back, to redress the balance,to make him feel some of the hurt and anxiety he's inflicted on me.

I KNOW this is unhealthy. And I've noticed other posters, well into recovery, talking about how they've lost interest in their spouse, lost enthusiasm for the marriage. Is it just a kind of depression?

Has anyone else found a way to deal with this, short of posting a lonely-hearts ad and setting out to cheat in full view of WS?

TA,

Anger is part of the deal that you signed on for when you agreed to stay with him. That is all part and parcel of the recovery process that you have to learn to deal with. However, you don't have to deal with it alone, you should be discussing these feelings with your H and recommending ways for him to make it better.

Additionally, I see that he is dragging out the recovery by withholding a few choice facts. Everytime one of these little factiods slip out, you go back to square on in your recovery.

Back to D-Day you go. It is like dying a death of a thousand little cuts. I know this hell very well. He needs to come COMPLETELY CLEAN now and get it over with. Otherwise, every time some little tidbit like this comes out, you go back to D-Day. Nothing could be MORE CRUEL.

If you have been decent enough to give him another chance, then he should be decent enough to do WHATEVER it takes to help you recover, up to and including the absolute and total truth. The truth not being just limited to what you are able to pull out of him one strand at a time.

Once you know the ENTIRE truth, you will know what you are dealing with and will be able to move forward. But just the fact that he has withheld things from you, impairs your recovery because you still have secrets between you. Those secrets will destroy your marriage.

P.S. cheating on him won't solve the problem, but will make it worse. You will still have the marriage problem but will now have an ADDITIONAL PROBLEM, one of conscience.

Also, around 8 months seems to be a crucial point in recovery. It is when the relief of keeping the marriage wears off, the shock has worn off and anger rises.[a righteous, necessary anger at being mistreated] For me, it was really the last gasp of my recovery before I started feeling normal again.

<small>[ February 16, 2003, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Melody Lane is exactly right.

Now do you understand why you've read that recovery is so much more difficult than d-day and your plan A? It's not an easy path, but I have heard it's worth it. But that timeframe also tends to take, what? 3 yrs I think is the average.

The "right" path, hardly ever tends to be the "easy" one. I guess its time that you work more on plan Aing yourself, and being that "better person"... which is a person who will find a way to "let go and let God", and move on to better and brighter things. (easier said than done, I know).

I just wanted to comment on the possible forgetfulness of your H. To a certain extent, you have to figure that yes, it is highly possible that he did forget about that trip. After all, he was in the fog for so long, and literally was doing things based on emotions, so therefore, wasn't storing times and dates in his memory (like a BS does), but feelings and emotions (a VERY typical WS action).

That revenge feeling is a terrible one. I worked with it during my plan A, by taking whatever legal means I could, to protect myself, and our sons. That helped me, tremendously. During our (false) recovery, POJAing was the only route to go. It would have worked too... if H had kept HIS end of the deals. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Now I'm back to the legal stuff again, but we're also headed for a D (as soon as possible too! - by MY filing). Thankfully I have my boundaries as my guide. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TogetherAlone:
<strong>
Has anyone else found a way to deal with this, short of posting a lonely-hearts ad and setting out to cheat in full view of WS?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DING DING DING DING DING,,,,WARNING BELLS,,,PULEZZZE read my sig,,,I was in exactly your position,,,My husband had 15 affairs over the course of nine years (He was double and triple timing some of THEM),,,,,you wouldnt believe the lies he told, the fog he lived under (pea soup, if you know what I mean), or the emotional roller coaster he put me on. He put UNBELIEVABLE effort into hiding his affairs too. As far as I was concerned, it was emotional torture, and he will agree with that assessment!!! He stopped meeting every one of my emotional needs at that time (not to mention I wasn't meeting his either). I was SO needy for love, for Honesty (irony will become clear shortly), FOR SOMETHING FOR ME, that I told him SPECIFICALLY that if it happened again, I would feel free to do what I wanted,,,,,it happened three more times before I PPURPOSELY searched out OM to have an affair with (some honesty, he was MARRIED),,,,the lies I told were INCREDIBLE,,,,the fog I lived under was unbelievable,,,,what I had always resented in H, began to become MY HABIT. I missed my oldest daughter's graduation from JR High School so that I could have my fling (WHAT IN HEAVEN WAS I THINKING???) And the upshot?? I HELPED TOTALLY DESTROY THE FABRIC OF OUR RELATIONSHIP instead of stitching some badly needed spots. Oh he was tearing it too,,,,,but so was I and the tears were happening much faster with both of us tearing. It will NOT make you feel better,,,it will make you feel worse,,,It will NOT teach him a lesson,,,he will only feel more justified,,,it will NOT improve your relationship,,it will tear it to smithereens,,,,,And if you think nobody will be hurt, you are lying to yourself. I know, I lived it,,,,OMW found out, God only knows HER pain, AND I CAUSED THAT (with help from OM, of course). Oh, you'll have something for yourself, allright,,,,pain, guilt, self hatred, and a quicker faster divorce. I only thank GOD, I found MB so that I could fix my marriage (God is good) literally at the last second (divorce was filed). I will NEVER forget that instead of staying cool,,,instead of giving my marriage my all at a time my husband was living in the fog,,,,,,I chose to JOIN that fog instead. PLEASE PLEASE if you would like to talk more about this privately, feel free to email me at HollyY3965@aol.com,,,,,,,,,I hope I helped,,,Holly

*I KNOW this is unhealthy. And I've noticed other posters, well into recovery, talking about how they've lost interest in their spouse, lost enthusiasm for the marriage. Is it just a kind of depression?

Has anyone else found a way to deal with this, short of posting a lonely-hearts ad and setting out to cheat in full view of WS?*

i feel this exact same way, in fact i told FWH this yesterday. i want those feelings....all the butterflies and sweaty hands, anxiousness and giddiness. H doesn'nt do it for me anymore and after what he's done, well frankly, he's wasting my time.

Melody - wise words, thank you. I don't think that he's actually withholding the truth - it's just that there's of much of it, he can't keep track of what he's told me or not. Complete honesty has been vital to him, even if it hurts me and causes me to react. However, I think he's so ashamed of how he's behaved, some things have been disclosed only after a huge internal struggle. He may well have told me this on d-day, but I was so shocked, I don't think I took it all in.

I do know that having any kind of affair would be disastrous, and in any case I don't think I'd know how to go about it, after nearly twenty years' of absolute fidelity! In my worst and bitterest moments, I've asked him how he spotted potential affairees - do they give out some kind of signal, and if so, how do I do it? But I know it's my Child screaming - the Adult takes over and sees it all sensibly.

It's just that I'm tired of being an Adult. I often feel that what he got from the OWs were women who were older, childless or with help, and who had time for a social life free from the discomfort of babaysitters, childcare arrangements, etc. Is it a coincidence that he's come clean on all of this just as our kids are old enough to take care of themselves for whole weekends at a time, freeing us to have an adult social life at long last?

Having spent nearly 18 years being loyal, faithful, responsible, a loving wife, an earnest mother - while he sowed his wild oats long past sowing time - do I have to settle back into my domestic dutifulness just because he's tired of the stress of cheating,and wants peace and predicability? Now that everything's 'open and honest', it would be extremely hard for me do anything secret, even if I wanted to. I resent that. He took advantage of my trust,for all those years. I really feel I need to take advantage of him, just to feel it's all fair.

Oh dear, this is all so childish!

It might be childish if you acted on it, but you aren't! It is a very normal, natural feeling when you have been betrayed as badly as you have. I had that feeling of being a "chump" for many months so I know what you are talking about. But it takes a big person to not give into revenge. Just hang onto that until it blows over.

Also, have you talked to your DH about this? I told my H about this feeling once and told him that I needed him to do everything in his power to reassure me it was worth my while to stay with him. I told him that without some work on his part that I felt like a chump. He did quite a bit to help me through that.

I have to say that it has been quite a while since I felt like I was wasting my time so the feeling DOES go away. You are not too far from your D-Day, TA. Not only that, but you have years of lies and several affairs to recover from. It won't be easy, but it sure can be done. Just hang in there, it will get better.

Keep in mind, as well, that you would also be betraying YOURSELF... and that after the dust settles YOU still have to live with yourself and what YOU have done...

Revenge is a dish best served cold. One of my favorite lines.

So too... Living WELL is the BEST revenge.

We were discussing forgiveness today in small group and one of the women shared that she is learning to accept the forgiveness of her husband for her part in an accident that harmed her youngest son, but that she spent EVERYDAY trying to forgive herself. I can see that in my H, too.

Live WELL, TA...

Cali

I'm borrowing this from Whippit's sig line, it rings in my ears whenever I feel vengeful:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you've been cheated on, the best revenge is living well. - Dr. Phil McGraw
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep it in mind,

Jen

TogetherAlone,
Please don't act on your feelings to get revenge. HeartHealing and MelodyLane are right on the money in what they are saying... I am 3 months since D-Day, and during the first month or so I wanted to get revenge on my wife to show her how it felt to be betrayed and deceived, to show her I am still a "good catch" that a number of women would want, and to regain some of the self-esteem I had lost and heal some of the feelings of inadequacy from having been deceived so cleverly for several months, but I fought those urges and decided that the old adage of "two wrongs don't make a right" applied in my case. You sound like a nice person with a lot of things going for you - please don't stoop to the level of the WS - you will undoubtedly live to regret it. It has been over 3 months now, and I have benefited from MB very much on finding ways to improve my marriage, and I would encourage you to do the same. Hang in there TogetherAlone...

Thanks, all, for your good Don't-do-it advice. I wouldn't cheat - even the thought of extra-marital anything makes my flesh creep. I'd have to be anaesthatised!

I think what I want is just for him to feel a tiny bit of this indescribable pain, and I can't think of anything else that would get under his skin. He says he knows it's hypocritical, but my faithfulness is very important to him. About the only thing that has disturbed him since d-day is the thought of me doing what he has done - he can hardly bear to think about it.

I'd love to hear from any BS who found, a long way down the line, that there was some sense of recompense for all the pain caused, and not just relief at avoiding the disaster caused by WS! I'm not sure I buy wholly into the eternal-guilt-and-grief argument; if someone is thick-skinned enough to take what they want without conscience, what makes then suddenly sensitive to their S's agony?

boy oh boy, am i ever glad to hear that someone else has the same feelings i'm having. you are soooo right!!!!!! everything you are saying i have felt!!

TogetherAlone,
I am glad to know you won't act on your feelings of revenge to actually engage in an A with another man - I am relieved to hear this because you sound like such a great person, especially in light of what you've been through with a husband that sounds like a real scoundrel at times. Here's an idea... Perhaps you can tell him you've been interacting with a man on the Internet who thinks you are terrific and have a wonderful personality (like many of us here) and maybe that will tick him off and might achieve the desired effect. This might make him feel jealous and upset and might give him a little taste of what it feels like to be on the receiving end.... Just an idea (maybe not a good one) but what the heck - it's getting past my bedtime anyway and I am sleep deprived so please forgive me if this offends you. There are those of us who truly admire you for enduring what you've gone through without striking back. I wish my W had possessed the inner strength like you to not have had an online and phone affair with the OM, but I realize in my case that I wasn't meeting hardly any of her emotional needs at the time and she did it to meet those needs. Sounds like you were meeting your WH's needs so he has no excuses. I wish you all the best, TA, for taking the high ground. Take care and God bless...

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: lions1957 ]</small>