How about taking a new hobby .... do you play guitar or wish that you could play ? .... learn about it. You are right about nothing that you could do at this point to change your WW. The change has to come from your WW.

-rh-

Hi Sandcrab,

Thanks for your post to me this wkend, was it yesterday?

So I was urged to read your thread and see who you are, since you are new.

Do have hope.... that interaction yesterday? with the goodbye peck sounds great.

Keep showing her you care about her well being and the kids, financially if you can and otherwise.

If you read his needs/ her needs, you prob. got the financial part.

I am struggling with my H right now, who is no longer a WS, but not quite a committed one.

He had the a and left and he does not in my opinion pay what he should for support... of our 2 boys. Truly I can take care of me, but there are so many obligations and responsibilities we women do not feel that men understand totally what we go through as Mom's.

Part of it is that Mom's typically want to do more for the kids... so we stress over it... and we do need help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> if that makes sense...

Be there for her in the ways that she will let you.

God Bless you.

Honey

Hi Honey. That doesn't sound right LOL. But any way. Im not sure if you know my situation is a little different. I am stationed overseas and have been screwed time and time again by the military. When my wife and kids were her I would always take out my frustrations on them. Not physical but verbal. So she became very un happy here as well. So we decided to separate and send her home to Cal so she would be happier. Which I really didn't want but all I saw was that it was going to get me out of Germany sooner. Well its not and now I feel like I sold out my family. I started partying and even went out on a few dates ( I know that was way wrong ) SO now I want to start working on things with my wife but she wants nothing to do with me. Yes this is the second time we have separated but the last time was a EA on my part and some small PA on her part.

Well now she is saying all the junk that comes along with the situation. I still love you but Im not "IN" love with you anymore. I forced my self to love you. I wish we never married. If you were home from Germany I would file for DV right now. I know she will come out of this fog that she is in. I just wish she would open up to me a little bit. I guess I will just have to wait and see. It just hurts when you love someone so much that you will do anything for them and she wont even write me to just say Hi.

I have been writing her little email's here and there and she replies back to me and tells me whats going on. I guess this is just a start and I will have to be patient.

If anyone has any suggestions for me to plan A her from so far away I would really appreciate it.

Talk to you all soon
Danny

Hey Red Hat. I have taken on a new hobby. I used to be into my jeep, always reserching and reading what ever I could to make it better. But now I am working on becoming the best husband, father and person that I could be. I have never put this much effort into something in my entire life. So I guess you can say this is my new hobby. I just hope one day I can have enough knowlege to help out even one person like you all have helped me out.
Dan

Danny,

Read The Language of Love, it would help you out to open a harden heart. About helping, by posting your story, you have already helped amny other lukers that afarid to post yet in the same situation like you.

-rh-

Danny,

I have read your posts, and all the replies you have gotten. You've gotten some excellent advice, from some very "experienced" and knowledgeable people. I hope you take their advice.

First of all, I'd like to advise you to take this time away from your family to study and learn more and more. You said you read HNHN from cover to cover in one sitting (on the plane). So now you've got it as far as understanding what EN's of your W you were not meeting.

Now you need to READ and STUDY up on Plan A so you can do a good one. Plan A is about YOU. It's about changing the way you act/react towards your spouse. About making yourself look more attractive to your spouse. You are not attractive by being weak, begging, pleading. She TOLD you that "....get a back bone and get over it...."

Being very far apart makes it hard, I know. My WH moved O-U-T before I even knew he was unhappy or wanted Div. I never got a chance to Plan A! He had already filed and papers from his attorney were here before I even knew what was going on. He refused to talk to me after then. All I could do was Plan A by mail. You can do the same.

Stick to "being nice." NO relationship talk. NO telling her how much you LOVE her and want your M to work. Just write about your days, about your concerns that things are hard for her. Keep it very short. Ask about your children, how they are doing, etc.

Can you send them things? Just a little "momento" gift? Like a postcard showing a sunset, or a little puzzle book, or something just to let the kids know you are thinking of them/missing them? I'm sorry I don't recall the ages of your child/ren....

You can focus on YOU now, and do your job to the best of your ability. In the meantime, try to just let her be. Let her and OM "at each other." By that I mean, she knows it's just a fantasy, she admitted as much. He'll probably LB much now, as she'll be leaning on HIM to be a "father-figure" to the children, and he doesn't want that. Sounds like he wants "good times" only. The family routine will get old fast for him. Then he'll be the LB'ing one, and you'll start to look goooood!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Especially if you have done a good Plan A. LOVE HER. Period. Long distance? Yes. Difficult? Yes. But not impossible. We're here to help. Keep reading. Keep learning.

Good luck, and God Bless.

Thanks lupolady. I have gotten some woderful advice from some very special people. I am trying to find info on plan A ing but its not coming easy. Where do I look. I find the normal stuff but what Im looking for is some idea's.
All I have been doing is emailing her asking simple everyday questions. But at the end I always tell her that I love her always. Is that wrong? I have been working on myself but what stinks is she wont notice it while Im so far away. I think her main emotional need is sex and I cant fulfill that right now so I dont know what to do. Thats why she is so happy with this OP i think.
The problem with the OM is she wont even bring him around the kids ( 4 and 6 ). He has told her this is nothing more than a sex and dateing relationship and that is what she wants too. I cant figure this out because this guy is damn near old enough to be her father.

I saw the light about being needy and weak so I have stoped that. But I am hanging in there and I appriciate all the help you all have given.
Danny

Danny,

List all the complaints from your wife about you, before and after the d-day as far as when she is not happy in this M. Check out the excuses from the real issues ... for instant my ex use race as an excuse. Hey, I am asian before I met her and I am always asian ... these are excuse and nothing I could do about it. There are many complaints that she repeated tell you way before A happens, those most likely are real issues, plan A material. Make the action list to show that you have changed or capable of changing. For instant is she complaint that you don't call her when you are away on duty ... call her every night, just to say hi or leave a message. Now you have to avoid LB at all time !, that includes "teaching" your wife about MB !. If she ask why you change you could tell her about MB but until then it can't come from you !!!. About ENs, you have to fillin it as far as she allows you to, most WS will shut you from fillin their ENs.

Long distance plan A is hard for some people but it is easier if you can't hold LB'ed .... If she doen't beleive that you love her ... saying I love you and I want you back are huge LB !!!!.

Follow the link on general welcome you will see plan A and plan A - 2nd edition.

It is good reading since you can't go to sleep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> -rh-

This really sucks. Today I am having a very bad day. I don't even have anything to report except my sorrow. I tried to go and see somebody about my problems but they aren't accepting any appointments until at least Friday. I would love to us the Harley's but being a lower enlisted in the Army I really cant afford it. If you guys think it is worth it then I would for sure spend the money on them.
I just don't know what to do. I know that this will take time but I would just love a little sign from my W that shows this is working. I want to call her so bad and just talk but Im afraid she will pull back even more. I bought another book today(our small book store didn't have much) IT is called The Divorce Remedy from Michele Weiner Davis. Have any of you read it?
My mind right now is so cloudy. All I can think about is fixing the problems I have caused. I only have gotten about two hours of sleep last night and by the end of the day I will have worked about 14 hours.
I miss my family so much right now. I cant belive what a jack [censored] I was sending them home like I did. What on earth was I thinking last summer. Its not like I was having a affair to make me do something as stupid as that. I wish I could go back and do things right.
I know I know I am rambling like a fool. But I just need to talk to someone and I feel like I can tell you all anything.
I also wish my wife was as understanding as some of you guys are. She is so quick to yell out divorce. She keeps saying its a pride thing. Well you know what sometimes you have to swallow your pride and do whats right. Belive me I know this being in the Army. She can be so stubborn sometimes.
I guess I will go now. I let you know if I feel any better after work tonight. Until then have a nice day or at least better than the one I did.
Danny

Hi Danny,
I think I'll comment on some of your stuff again.

This really sucks.
Yes, and it won't go away this week. You are going to have to find a way to get through it. I pray, but you have to find your way.

Today I am having a very bad day. I don't even have anything to report except my sorrow. I tried to go and see somebody about my problems but they aren't accepting any appointments until at least Friday. I would love to us the Harley's but being a lower enlisted in the Army I really cant afford it. If you guys think it is worth it then I would for sure spend the money on them.
I think calling the Harleys would give you the best chance that you can get. I know it's expensive but even 2 or 3 sessions would get you off to a much better start.

I just don't know what to do. I know that this will take time but I would just love a little sign from my W that shows this is working.
If this plays out as it usually does, you won't get any sign from her because she is to deep in the fog. You need to organize your plan, and work it for some months no matter what she does. Take the things you learned from HNHN and see if you can figure out what her needs are. You commented that it may be $ex. Has this always been high on her list? If not, then that is probably the way she gets affection from OM, and there are other things more important to her. Affection is usually high, and conversation. You can give both of these with phone calls, and e-mail. Think back on what you know of her, read those sections again in HNHN, and then write up what you think you need to work on . After you have her top 5 EN outlined, bring them back to us for more specific help.

I want to call her so bad and just talk but I'm afraid she will pull back even more.
When you talk to her, talk about her, and about kids, and about what is going on in your lives but not about relationships, or about what she is doing. OM is fun, and happy. You need to be fun ad happy like you once were when dating. Needy and angry are not what she wants to hear on the phone. When I am not what I want to be, I pretend. I pretend I am happy, I pretend I am strong, and outgoing, and good looking and cool. After all, she once thought you were all those things, you can be them again for her, but only if you can get in that frame of mind again. Plan A will help you get there yourself.

.....and I bought another book today (our small book store didn't have much) IT is called The Divorce Remedy from Michele Weiner Davis. Have any of you read it?
I have not read this one, but I have seen many here refer to it as a very good book.

My mind right now is so cloudy. All I can think about is fixing the problems I have caused. I only have gotten about two hours of sleep last night and by the end of the day I will have worked about 14 hours.
See the Doc about anti D's, it should really help and you will wish you did it sooner.
I miss my family so much right now. I cant believe what a jack [censored] I was sending them home like I did. What on earth was I thinking last summer. Its not like I was having a affair to make me do something as stupid as that. I wish I could go back and do things right.
We can't g o back, but you can go on and do a good plan A.

I know I know I am rambling like a fool. But I just need to talk to someone and I feel like I can tell you all anything.
Good, vent here as often as you need to vent. I also like hitting cement slabs with a 20 LB sledge, but to each his own.

I also wish my wife was as understanding as some of you guys are. She is so quick to yell out divorce. She keeps saying its a pride thing.
Remember that you caused some of this. Now, we know she isn't doing what is right, but you have a lot to improve upon. Since you can't change her, you must change you and hope she responds to it the way you want. I suggest you also get "Surviving An Affair" by Harley so you have an outline of how to proceed. But calling for counseling will do you a great deal of good now.

Danny,
this is going to be hard. It will take time. All of us make mistakes, you are not alone here. You will have to live day to day, week to week, month to month. You will improve your self a great deal, and she may or may not respond. You need to realize that. You must be the very best you are capable of, and that is all you can do. Before now, you didn't know a lot about how to make her happy, now you are learning and you can do it better. BUT YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE PLAN AND DO IT DAILY.

Calm down and start to think about how you are going to do a great plan A. You can do this, just like so many others here.

SS

SS I am so glad that you posted again. You all have been so wonderful.
I have been thinking very hard about her EN. Yes sex is one of them and I think it might be the highest. We have always had good sex but she wants more and is always fantasizing about it. In the book the Harley's said that fantasy's are a dead give away for sexual EN. I think she goes out with guys for sex just for her own self esteem.

I know affection is one of her needs too and I have been stepping lightly with this one so I don't make her angary with me. Do you have any idea's?

One that I have been drilling pretty hard is Admiration. I think she feels like she has always been in my shadow and is just now breaking out. She told me that she got her nipples pierced as a sign of independence from me.

I would love to talk to her and work on our conversation needs but once again I am so afraid to say the wrong thing.

As for a fifth EN I have no idea. I know its not attractiveness. (she always is telling me that I do nothing but get better looking as I get older) and I don't think it could be domestic support or family commitment (I am kind of a neat freak and a wonderful daddy) But yet as I write this I think of the fifth one. It is financial support. It has to be. You see I like my toys ( I am a big kid ) and I have realized this and already started making steps to have no bills and only one toy left and the only reason I will still ride my dirt bike is because my boys love to ride too. I know she hates this and if it went for my boys I would stop riding all together. But the problem with the financial support is that she will never see it unless I tell her. I would rather her notice it on her own. Once again do you have any ideas?

I have been writing her little email to her and for the most part she will respond. Nothing fancy just telling me the stuff I asked. I hope she starts to notice that I am changing and not just being her ex hubby. Because that is the relationship we had for the past few months before I picked my head out of the fog. I would also like to buy her something nice but Im not sure if this is a good idea. I want to buy it for her because she pasted her state boards for nursing.

I am sorry that this is so long but I have so many questions running through my head.

As for the counseling. I am going to see one here first and if Im not happy with the person I will for sure call on the Harley's for help!!!

Thank You all for being a friend to me.
Danny

Ok get this Wife finally writes back today and tells me about some minor personal heath problems You know her time of the month and how bad it is. I cant figure out why she is telling me this
Also I have been trying to get out of the military for some time now. Long story. For the past month wife kept telling me to just go AWOL. Dont worry there is no way I would do that. Well a couple of months ago I got into a little bit of trouble and so now I want them to just kick me out. Again dont worry its not as bad as it sounds. Well I tell wife that I went in and asked to be kick out and now she writes me back and says she's not sure how she feels about me being kicked out.
Last week it was get your butt home so go AWOL and today its well Im not sure. Either she dosnt want me to come home. When last week that was all she wanted me to do so I could help her take care of our boys (50/50) so she would have more time away from them. Or she doesnt want me to get out yet because our futer will be easier if I stick it out. I am guessing she doesnt want me to come home. Maybe because she knows that we will end up together again and she isnt ready to settle back down yet. I dont know maybe I am over analizing this. Can some one please help me on this. You are all right this is such a roller coster ride.
Danny

Danny,
One of the things you should have gotten from HNHN was that you and your wife are different. Now, It has taken me a year to figure this out after I read the book, ( and I am still working on it) so I don't expect you to understand all that you read in totality.

Ok get this Wife finally writes back today and tells me about some minor personal heath problems You know her time of the month and how bad it is. I cant figure out why she is telling me this ....
She is different than you are!!!
She wants someone to listen, and she is trusting that you will. Men communicate to fix things. Someone tells us something that needs action, and we perform the action. You are wondering what the action is that she needs, and there isn't one, so you don't know what to do with the information she gives you. In this case, all you have to do is write her back something like this.
" Oh W, I am sorry you are having a hard time, I wish I was there to take care of things for you right now. Sorry I am so far away and can't help you much. I do love you and I wish you felt better."
Words to that effect, said in your words, not mine.

That's plan A, you see she has a need for empathy and communication, and you communicate with her and give the empathy to her that she seeks. Read HNHN a couple more times paying attention to the things DR Harley says most women want. It does take a while, keep reading.

Well I tell wife that I went in and asked to be kick out and now she writes me back and says she's not sure how she feels about me being kicked out. Last week it was get your butt home so go AWOL and today its well I'm not sure.
You can count on things being like this for quite some time. It is not fun, but its what things are going to be like for a while. We don't know how long. That's why you write down your plan. You do something daily, an e-mail, send a card, call her, or something every day and you check it off on your calendar as being done. You gage your success by how well you do the plan, not by how she reacts from day to day. Over time, she (usually) will react favorably to your changes and attention to her. It may be that no matter what you do she will think it the wrong thing. You just have to take charge and go ahead and do what you believe is best - see below

I don't know maybe I am over analyzing this. Can some one please help me on this. You are all right this is such a roller coaster ride.

We just don't know. That's why I keep telling you to work the plan every day. That's where you put your worry and your effort. You think up stuff you can do, you start to remember things she liked years ago, and you do them again. You are consistent and then you will get better and better at it. She is looking for a Danny that knows what he is doing. One that is strong, that is cool, calm, confident. She is looking for you to take care of her again. She wants a Danny with Goals and dreams like you had when you married. At least I bet that was her perception of you then. We can almost always do what we set our heart and mind on. I suspect you can too.

Remember that we are just here learning like you are, you still need professional counseling.

Your W is giving you a great chance here to meet her needs. GET AFTER IT.

SS

SS you are so great at geting me to think straight again.
That is what I did. I wrote back telling how sorry that I couldnt be ther for her. But I did ask her what she ment about not sure about me coming home. I did ask her in a nice way but still wondering if it was a LB.
I have been staying consistant. Writing her everyday just to say goodmorning. I know that she used to get up every morning get some coffee and check our emails. So I am banking on this. I have also been sending her and the boys cards and post cards. BUt I still have not spoken to her since I left Cal almost a week ago.
Question? I am reading a book right now and I know its not DR. Harley's but she says I should stop telling her that I love her. Im not sure how I feel about this because I dont want my wife to start thinking that I have given up. Also I have a card here that I want to send my wife telling her how sorry I am about the things in the past. Do you think I should send it to her, and how heart felt should I get.
One more thing SS. Because you have been so wonderful helping me do you think you can tell me your story. Also ofcourse I totally understand that you all are here looking for answers as well. I just hope one day soon I can be there for someone like you all have been here for me.
So goodnight. I have a early (0500hrs) work call in the morning. Talk with you all soon.
Danny

Hi Danny,

You are getting good support here. It is good you send a short and simple e-mail everyday.

I encourage you to continue communicating for the children's sake. Periodically ask how she is doing but not everyday. You don't want to minimize the impact of your words and feelings.

As for the card???? IMHO, right now it not the right time to send it. If your W were not in the fog, maybe but since she appears to be, then nope. Why? Because right now her primary object seems to be to push you away. You make her feel bad (not logical but very real).

So if the card is a good one and you can emotionally hold off until it will have a better and longer lasting effect, I think it would be better to wait.

take care,
L.

I don't have time to post much right now. I agree with Orchid.

Take it slow, little by little. As has been said, it came apart slowly, it will be built back slowly, brick by brick.

I'll try and get back tomorrow with a little more help.

SS

Hey all. I am so emotionally drained right now. I feel like throwing in the towel.
After she wrote me telling me in detail that she is not feeling well I wrote her back telling her how sorry I was that I couldn't be there for her. I did not go to far just a few lines saying my concern. Well today she writes back say don't worry about me I am fine. What gives if she was really fine she would have never told me. I guess I fell like I am trying so hard and not even sure if this woman is worth it. I guess I should have told her to go and whine to her new BF about her period. I guess thats the way its going to be. He gets the love from my wife I get all her troubles.
You know it hurts so much knowing that all you want to do is give yourself to someone that you love more than anything and all they do is take that love and crush you with it. This hurts so much. Sometimes I wonder if I should just take the love that I have and give it to someone that deserves it. I really love her but I guess it a lost cause on her part. I read some peoples post and at least there S gives them a little bit.
I know in my heart that she is making the biggest mistake in her life. She will someday wake up from her fantasy and me and our boys will be happier with someone who loves us in return.
Talk to you all later I think Im going to go and cry.
Danny

Danny,
One of the things we haven't told you yet, is don't expect anything right away. Don't. You should work your plan for a few months before you expect to see results.

After she wrote me telling me in detail that she is not feeling well I wrote her back telling her how sorry I was that I couldn't be there for her. I did not go to far just a few lines saying my concern. Well today she writes back say don't worry about me I am fine.
This is normal.
Say you are dating, and you give her a necklace or earrings or something - what does she say. She says " oh Danny, you shouldn't have."
Does she mean that? No, she does not. That's why we say you need to work the plan for a time. See, part of this is that it takes us quite some time before we begin to understand this stuff ourselves. Until we begin to understand, we can't really do the work we need to do. Part of the wait will be time you need to learn and process stuff for your own self, and has nothing to do with her.

I wanted to do a longer post but I have to leave for a funeral, I'll come back and see if I can explain better and give you more background. Don't do anything drastic, and no, don't say anything like this:
I guess I should have told her to go and whine to her new BF about her period. I guess that's the way its going to be.

Like I have said, there is a lot more to this than we see on the surface. You have done some good, don't blow it now.

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandcrab:
<strong>I just keep digging myself deeper and deeper. I told my wife that I want her back and she says that there is no way. So what do I do? I flip out start crying telling her how much I need and want her. Tell her I will change and all that junk. She says get a back bone and get over it. I just dont want to lose my family that easily I guess.

So I back off for a day or two (mind you I am flying back to Germany on Friday) and we start to talk. She says that maybe we can hang out one day. So I get a little bit of hope. So what does my dumb [censored] do? I go over to her place and try to talk to her. Then she starts up with the mean things again. This has happend twice now in the past week. I am such a emotion wreak right now. I dont know what to do. How can a woman that was with me for 10 years just all of a sudden in one month go from loving and missing to wanting nothing to do with me?

So what is a guy to do. She is seeing somebody that she knows wont work (he wants no kids and we have two)But he has money so I guess that fixes everything. She keeps blaming me for everything that went wrong. I let her sign the seperaion papers, I let her get on the plane and leave, I didnt spend anytime with her when I was home in Dec. Yes I signed the papers, yes I let them fly out of my life, but no, I did see her in Dec. I called her many times for us to get together. But now she dont want a thing. Not even a glimer in the futer.

The question that I have is when is enough going to be enough? I want my family so much but its a one way street. What is a Guy who loves his family so much that he is willing to overhaul his life to do? Please help me.
Dan</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I know how you feel because i have been in your shoes and still am to a certain extent. Women can not handle pressure at all. The best thing for you to do is give her space and time.Dont pressure her about anything.Carefully choose your words when you do have a conversation with her.Most important tell her that you will never turn your back on her and if she needs something be there for her. I had to let my wife hit rock bottom before we became friends again.During our trouble times i expressed how much i love her and whenever she needed me to call me. Believe it or not it works wonders. I was so confused and so hurt and thought the pain would never end but time and space will heal you. Try to give this a chance and it might work for you as well.Remember not to pressure her and be there when she falls.