WH's. Will you please give honest answer to this ?. if you are recovering with you wife, do you still think of OW when making love to wife?
I ask because since my H broke off his A, and it's been over a year, he is putting a lot more into ou sexual relationship that he had not before.
Sure, I'm loving it, but then the doubts as to whether it's me or a fantasy in his head still lingers. We've always had good sexual relation, except for a period of time he was having impotence often. That is another problem that I thought since he did go off and have PA with ow.
If he had problems, no desire, why want her?
such a mess and hurt to me.
He said they both had sexual problems so it was not really good or intense except for his feeling more desire than usual. Just couldn't get it to work though.
Now he's taking RX for it, and doing better, and very active with me more than in years.
I would be devastated if I thought this energy came from fantasizing about her which he denies.
Ok WH's! Will you honestly answer here? Do you think of your A to feel more desire when with wife?
I understand if your wife reads here, you may be reluctant to answer. Please use a new name if needed to protect yourself.
Thank you, LouLou

LL,

I can honestly say no.

at least for me i am not much for fantisizing while i am making love at all. too distracting i am trying to connect with the person i am making love to. if i do fantisize its more about an act than a person.

its in the absense of love making that the memories and or fantasies come. when what i can most recently remember as wonderful ends up being with OW.

my ability/desire to dwell is very short. i dont travel through time and think about past loves or sexual encounters, i feel lucky if i can remeber the last one. so thats where my mind goes. to the last most wonderful time i did X, Y, or Z.

i think that is most typical in men, short attention spans dont ya know.

so i guess if it were me giving the advise, id be sure to advise the BS to mark her territory and do it well with enthusiasm and love and admiration... if my W would only do just that i dont think id remember her at all....

i mean really what would you want to remember? a warm giving adventurous lover who was intent on pleasing you, or a cold accomodation?

LL i know you are and have always been there in this reguard for your H, Id have to say (AGAIN) that i think the A for your H (and me)was never about sex but something else.. and i bet he hasnt expressed it for fear of hurting you even more.

<small>[ February 22, 2003, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: chazbutler ]</small>

chazbutler,

Thanks for your post. This was in my mind this morining. My H is still seeing OW. He asked me this morining if his love making hasn't improved. (it has )This sends my mind worndering is it me he thinks of or her. Maybe she teaching him something. Could he be just trying to please me? Wish I knew. I do try not to dewell.He did tell me before how good it was with OW. I've been with only him since I was 17. I don't have all the experince OW has.Your post did ease my mind a bit.

Thanks, Kathy

ChaZ:

My WS has repeatedly said to me that A was not about sex, but "something else". What is that "something else"? They met in motel rooms. I'm sure they did not go there to talk. Was it the excitement of having a secret relationship?

Kp:

Feel confident about your ability to please your husband since you have been with him so long. She does not know all your secrets! Don't assume she has gained anything by having that "more experience" you are talking about. Quality is more important than quantity. My WS is attracted to my newfound CONFIDENCE in every area. Mark your territory as CHAZ says.

<small>[ February 22, 2003, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>ChaZ:

My WS has repeatedly said to me that A was not about sex, but "something else". What is that "something else"? They met in motel rooms. I'm sure they did not go there to talk. Was it the excitement of having a secret relationship?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mimi,

for me it was being wanted, feeling worth while. that even as low as i was OW wanted me cared for and about me. something i never got from my wife after we got married.

would things have been different had my wife acted differently? could she have led me to self esteem? i dont know, i doubt it. she did take advantage of the situation and lived very well as a result. thats where i have a tiny blip still, but had i not allowed it, had i had the personal strength to change that, it simply would not have happened.

we fed off each other, she acted controlling and manipulative, in responce to my weakness and worthlessness, which in turn gave her permission to be controlling and manipulative, whe made me believe thats what she wanted so i dove right in acting even more weak, more worthless.

over and over me feeding her, her feeding me. its only fate that she was the one with the control, power, and money from our relationship, so was she unhappy? yes, miserable? absoultly not!!! I was miserable.

so can you change the cycle? YES!!! by getting clear about what is going on in your circle of marriage you can change your actions/re-actions and that will change your relationship.

once my wife could no longer see me acting worthless, she could no longer treat me as though i was worthless..

changes everything....

You are so right.

My WS says that what has brought him back is that he now knows that I "care about" him, that he did not think that I cared.

Thanks!

Chaz, he actually has stated more than once it wasn't about sex. To start with that is!however he did tell me he had always wanted to sleep with this gal from High School. And he did! Said it was very disappointing too.
I think if it wasn't about sex, there wouldn't have been trips all the way across country and her emails were full of sexual innuendos. I will say his didn't have much comments back on her daydreams or fantasies of them together.
the problem I have is I don't believe he didn't sleep with her in HS. Because he has forgotten telling our grown son every guy ought to have a rabbit like he did in HS and it was in regards to a picture of him and her in HS together!
When you deal with a chronic liar who forgets his stories, it's sickening to see him try to lie out of them.
I fully believe had he thought there was not going to be a sexual encounter, he'd not ever have spent money to fly to see her!
We were having emotional problems at time due to depression. And it had been ongoing for years.
He used that as an excuse. Wonderful huh? since my depression was due to discovery of an old A years before!
I think because it was an old HS sweetheart made it worse for me. As though he'd been thinking of her all these years and missing something, or felt he was.
He knew her for a couple of years back in HS, then had not seen her in over 40 yrs when he looked her up and started EA on email and phones. Of course, his intention all along was to make it PA! I know this without a doubt.
So, after all our years together, and I know most were very happy at least the first few, I felt he'd always thought of her and how he should have been with her all these years.
He denies this. Totally. And says if our home life had been more relaxing, peaceful and I had not gotten do depressed, he'd never have done it.
He was the one who rejected me physically for long time before. Using excuse of having impotence problems. Of course, he says had same problem with her and she has problems due to having not taken anything for menopause which has been for 10 yrs with her!
Of course, he took a nice little series of testosterone shots for 6 weeks before flying to see her too! Says didn't help that much, that most of the desire was mental and didn't get to the physical level of being able to truly perform well. I don't believe that either!
He even tried to say he was taking them for me. LOL Well, he sure wasn't using the benefits with me and I was gone from home a week before he left. I knew in my heart his trip was a lie to see OW, and I couldn't stay here and get him ready for her!
Is it better now? yes, he seems to want me more than he has in years. Shots are regular too as I give them.
He seems to have an increased appetite, I just don't want it to be substituting me for her!
Boy is this hard. I have a much better figure, have taken great care of me for him, and I have high libido! he's never been neglected in that dept. But I have!
Well, at times I do understand the EN she fulfilled. Making him seem so attractive and nothing to fight about!
But what I do not understand is i always made him feel very attractive, and wanted, desired! Even after all the yrs together.
I have a very hard time with wondering if he's thinking of her. Her image turning him on, and him using me for release.
He says not, But if I ever found out he was, I'd not stay with him. I mean that with all my heart.
For that would mean the adultery was continueing in his heart.
I've even thought about hypnosis for me.But Christian friends say that is wrong and messing with evil. Leaving window open for demonic control or activity. I'm not sure it's true, but I wouldn't want to risk it either.
My relationship with God is first. I know I am not some saint, but I do worry about offending God.
I wish I were better able to control my thoughts or suspicions. I truly do not want to be like this!
Physical between us used to be so wonderful for me. It was no sex, but love making!
Now I feel it's sex and anyone will do for him.
how do you believe someone who has lied so much?
First he tells me it's better with us because it is love making and not just sex. Then he had told me early on after A that he loved her. Or thought he did. So it had to be love making to him in his mind too.
When you admit you've been wanting to sleep with someone for over 43 yrs, that is very damaging. Then he also says it was a huge disappointmenvt.
So confusing I feel he's an alien at times.
I just wonder if that old feeling between us will ever exist for me. The feeling special, desired and the one!
He's gone for rejecting my moves to waking me in middle of night for it!
Then I wonder if he's had dreams of her and using me.
I know through prayers I may come to peace with this someday. I pray God will give me that. Because it used to be so wonderful to feel so special. And pure hell to feel it's all all a lie. I even feel she rejected him to go home to her H. And that if she had not, he'd be with her.
He denies that also. But his way of denial is saying, Probably not! That is not very reassuring to hear probably not!
It would be better to hear, NO I never would have left you for good even if she'd divorced her H!
See my dilemma? This is one reason I so appreciate the honesty from WH's here. You have no idea how much help you can give to BS's. Especially BW's.
WE need to be able to get inside WH's heads. Almost a desperate survival need.
I wonder how many WH's will ever know what they've actually done? or created?
They didn't just Oops a bit. They made the BS's mind a hell on earth. This goes so deep it's like a bottomless pit for me.
Thanks again to all of you. LouLou

I asked my H today about the OW and sex and he said it's not the same as being with me. He said I feel better than her, so why is he with her? I know it's not all about that, but it is a big part of it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ladyLou:
[QB]Chaz, he actually has stated more than once it wasn't about sex. To start with that is!however he did tell me he had always wanted to sleep with this gal from High School. And he did! Said it was very disappointing too.
I think if it wasn't about sex, there wouldn't have been trips all the way across country and her emails were full of sexual innuendos. I will say his didn't have much comments back on her daydreams or fantasies of them together.[/b]

you see thats how i know for sure it wasnt about sex. Sex can be had locally!! i could just look around at work or the gym and find a woman willing to have sex. sex is easy.

whats not easy is to find someone who can make me feel wanted and loved. that i would travel across the country for.


And says if our home life had been more relaxing, peaceful and I had not gotten do depressed, he'd never have done it.

i am frustrated by ya LL, i want to feel terrible for you i really do but at every turn you discount your husbands feeling and words..

and i get that you think that he is a cronic lier.

Is it better now? yes, he seems to want me more than he has in years. Shots are regular too as I give them.

sounds like a good plan

He seems to have an increased appetite, I just don't want it to be substituting me for her!

?? do you mean you dont want him thinking of her while with you?

Boy is this hard. I have a much better figure, have taken great care of me for him, and I have high libido! he's never been neglected in that dept. But I have!

god for you, just dont rub it in his face! its a gift your giving not ransom!

Well, at times I do understand the EN she fulfilled. Making him seem so attractive and nothing to fight about!
But what I do not understand is i always made him feel very attractive, and wanted, desired! Even after all the yrs together.

i get that you think so, but does he? and how would you know if he was being honest when he said yes?

id bet there is a need your not considering that she met that your not!

and he is afraid to say what it is.

I have a very hard time with wondering if he's thinking of her. Her image turning him on, and him using me for release.
He says not, But if I ever found out he was, I'd not stay with him. I mean that with all my heart.
For that would mean the adultery was continueing in his heart.

that is sad i can hear how whats happened haunts you. but you have a choice here, choose to love and trust or not forgive or not. if this is a life sentance for him, id tell him to leave and you to let him go.

I wish I were better able to control my thoughts or suspicions. I truly do not want to be like this!
Physical between us used to be so wonderful for me. It was no sex, but love making!
Now I feel it's sex and anyone will do for him.
how do you believe someone who has lied so much?

first you set the bounderies around lying, then you expect the truth and choose to belive or else you never allow forgivness, and then you act on the bounderies if violated.

add time and then some more time and you can begin to trust and truly believe. but for now all you can do is choose to believe.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Dear LL,

It sounds like you are still struggling to control your wandering thoughts about your H's affair. It is quite difficult, but there are other alternatives to hypnosis. I would suggest cognitive therapy. It is a very specific program for recognizing our negative thoughts and answering them in more realistic ways. Our depression is caused by our thoughts, and our thoughts, while we are depressed or becoming depressed, are usually not accurate. They are black and white thinking, negative predictions about the future, mind reading, etc. The more depressed we become, our thoughts become more and more negative (untrue or distorted), we spend more time in our negative thoughts. Cognitive therapy is not some form of "positive thinking." Positive thinking, IMO, doesn't work because we aren't stupid enough to convince ourselves to believe things that are unrealistic or Disney-like.

For example you think "He flew across country to have an affair with this woman, he must not want or love me." You have just been mind reading and engaging in black and white thinking. You answer yourself with "He is probably a very confused person who didn't truly know what he wanted. He was acting on some pain or motivation that may (or may not) have had little to do with me." If you look at the situation and see your own (realistic) shortcomings, you can address them. The rest of the responsibility you place on him, the affairee. You feel empowered to make positive changes in your own behavior and you also feel relived of carrying unncessary burdens that are clearly his, not yours.

You can look for books on Cognitive Therapy through Amazon or you can find a counselor. Cognitive therapy is concrete and often fairly short-term, as opposed to traditional analysis.

Wishing you peace, God's true shalom,
MJ

Thank you all for you responses. One reason I've not been able to deal with it is the verbal abuse from him.
So, after last night and having given this many years to see changes, and promises kept, I've made a serious decision.
He is a chronic liar and waiting for him to change that behavior has cost me much!
He kept promising we'd have time away more often than before because he knew we needed it and it was a way for him to make amends to me, as well as make me feel special enough.
17 months ago he made that promise and each time a special occasion has arisen,he finds and excuse. None are new. The needs were always here before, it was just that he was able to justify putting them on hold to do for her and him.
I know our finances well. I know what we can do!
Two days ago he promised a short get away when income tax returned. Yesterday our tax man came, and we know what we'll have.
The he proceeded to find places for it to cancel our plans. Things like painting the house, ect. Which can wait as it did for her. It's not falling apart, btw! Just cosmetic!
I've seen one promise after another broken so many times and me the sacrifice.
Of course, It upset me. And I told him you cannot keep breaking promises.
I was, in turn, called a dumb *****, C word, many things and told to just leave and stay gone.
Well, he keeps refusing to pay for atty. So I have withdrawn enough money to pay for the forms, and file cheaply with the cty clerks office.
My daughter is buying a large home here which will not be finished until about May or June.
At that time I will take a room temporarily with her. He says he gets everything including our home. NOT! It is just upsetting me because I know the law. 50/50 in Ca and the home will have to be sold to give me my half equity. Which has really gone up in last year and I'll need it to reestablish myself.
Truthfully, the abuse mental, emotional and at times physical has been horrendous. It is also destroying me spiritually which is the last straw for me.
The things he has said dig so deep I don't think I'll ever get the knife out.
I've heard many times how wonderful she is and how happy she made him. So he's welcome to her. They're two of a kind. Cheaters both and liars.
Only she's a gold digger and he won't have it to give her afterwards. She had told him how to steal our assets, stupidly so, and move them before so they could fly around the country together.
she's just stupid because she didn't know the CA law. One move by him to defraud me and it would be mine 100% and he'd be in prison under the law here. I truly think the finances was reason she didn't want him then when she found out.
But I'm tired of paying for others peoples sins and evil minds.
I'm not the sacrificial lamb anymore!
I am moving on, and hopfully either find a decent person to be with or stay single from now on!
what good is a keeping a marriage together where there is so much resentment on his part? And mine!
Without respect, honor and cherish, and treat me better than the Who--, I do not care to keep it together anymore.
When he can find the means to cheat, but can't find the means to restore us by working on it and giving as much to it, then I don't want it.
Of course, all here do not know the history.
I worked for years, making thousands more than he. I always put it in our home, cars, furniture, kids, etc. Never took time out to treat myself ever!
I hold two professional licenses. One as Real Estate Broker and one as a Cosmetologist. With the RE I made huge bucks and he ask me to quit and be a stay at home mom years ago. With the other talent, I did the whole family always including myself. I never treated myself to a manicure out or anything. I saved thousands of dollars by doing it for all. I did not resent that, found it an honor, but not saving for other women to enjoy the fruits of my labor!
He spent hundreds of dollars to put her up in best hotel room! Then came home, took me to Laughlin, NV. for a couple nights. Searched for the room specials of $15 a night! I slept in room next to the elevator that went all night long!
I became ill and was rushed to ER even ruining that shabby trip. Came home went into surgery. They damaged my vocal cord with intubation and one month later in surgery again. All paid for my Ins.
That was one year ago I had two surgeries. he hasn't been interested in us going even for one night somewhere again.
Crying we can't afford it. But there is money for electronics, and things not needed here. WE have two computers! He buys coins from mint all time for our 29 yr old son who lives at home and doesn't work.
He sits in front of TV 24/7! I mean doesn't hardly move. Then says what are you fixing me for dinner? I've been practically crawling for two weeks due to back injury that often goes out of place. I can't stand more than few mins without excruiating pain!
I had no sleep for two nights, but he could wake me at 1A.M for sex? After rejecting me so many times over the years, I'm available and have always been. Never said no ever!
NO respect. Me and Rodney Dangerfield! LOL
I am sick and tired, tired, tired mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Sorry to go on so. but it's the tip of the iceberg and I don't think there is anyway to make it better. I've given it to many precious years and have not that many left.
His actions over years put me in deep depression, suicidal thoughts and attempts, heart attack, many health damages due to him!
Anorexia unintentionally also. Though now I've gotten that under control.
When is the price paid too much?
I read many here and see such a pattern and they are still young people. I sometimes fear they will wake up down the road years from now and resent having wasted such precious years.
I'm not saying all. Many will make it, but some have endured way too much with very few changes.
Thanks for listening. I am full of pain today and thoughts. Believe me, I have prayed a million prayers and cried a river of pain. Sometimes God is showing us the way out and we aren't listening. Sometimes he is telling us the other persons heart isn't going to change ever. And God doesn't do it for one. One must give their heart over first to God for healing. God is not going to make my H ever do anything. It's his choice and he has made the wrong one always.So if leaving is the only way I can heal, it's time! LouLou