I'm concerned about you...

How did the visit go? Please check in.

Susan

*BuRp* ... 'cuse me .... got a little gassy tonight.

Well... he's still manic, but he did manage to sit in family group and only got up one time to pee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

When the therapist asked, "Anyone want to talk?"

Louie says, "My mom does. Talk mom." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I told him I was basically there tonight to show him support and to see how he's doing.

When pressed by the therapist to share what he was feeling, he said he wanted to go home.

I shared that was news to me because he told me that very afternoon on the phone that he did NOT want to come home!

Therapist asked me. " What exactly did he say to you?"

"I hate you , stupid b*tch. I wish you'd never adopted me. I don't like you and I am not going to live with you."

Therapist asked, "Louie, being adopted, do you realize you push loving people away from you because you fear abandonment?"

He says, "I guess so."

Therapist says, "Do you want to be part of a loving family?"

Louie says he wants to come home.

I say, "Will you let me hug you?"

"NO!!!! Keep your hands off me. Never touch me again." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

THIS is mania ..... confused and foggier than any WS.

<small>[ February 22, 2003, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Therapist gave me a few pointers.

One was this: Do not engage in any "why" conversations. He is manipulative beyond compare, and he uses "why" to push buttons and to gain control.

Suz ... I really was not expecting much. They have not started the med yet. It's sort of an unusual med and had to be ordered. They'll start tomorrow however.

Thanks for the update.

Your spirits sound good after the visit...of course you could just have on your chrome mask for us.

You are a woman of steel!

Try to rest during the time that someone else is responsible for Louie. Refresh and build up that stamina for when he does come home.

S. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

PS..Good thread on Angry Women..I am pondering that....

part 2 of "my background" is ready to send...

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Therapist asked, "Louie, being adopted, do you realize you push loving people away from you because you fear abandonment?" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This may be a chichen or the egg question, but...

Do you think Louie's adoption contributes to his illness or is it the illness that causes him to have adoption issues?

(Is that clear as mud?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I didn't really think about it, cause my friends are much older than you...and their children are much older than yours....and I have just known and accepted it for years....

BUT.... my best friend has three adopted children and another close friend has two.

Out of 5 children, two had problems with adoption issues. The other three were well adjusted and happy.

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> BuRp* ... 'cuse me .... got a little gassy tonight.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Careful bending over to wash the tub then.... could be a real turn-off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

s. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well, Oaktown has helped me understand this issue a bit. There is an adoption wound. A wound which I pridefully thought that I could overcome with my determined love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I really am only beginning to understand what this wound is all about. Our D has it too, but she keeps it quiet. Thursday in therapy, (H, myself and D) the therapist (who is an adoption specialist) told us that every adopted child has this wound on some level.

Louie has some genetic predisposition for erratic possibly psychotic behavior (birth dad) and drug use (both birth parents). Put that together with the fact that we adopted him at age 3, and his sister at age 8 months .... and the differences are apparent. Both kids had pre-natal drug exposure (heroin) , but male babies have a more vulnerable nervous system at birth. Louie also suffered greatly during the break away from his foster parents. And, looking backwards, it was handled with utter disregard for the child by the social workers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> .... One day, they simply wisked him away from the home he'd been in since birth, and was dropped at our doorstep.

Abandonment issues? You bet'cha.

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One day, they simply wisked him away from the home he'd been in since birth, and was dropped at our doorstep.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Horrible, isn't it!

I am sure that at that time, you were so happy to get him, it probably didn't even occur to you how horrible it was... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

(Sending part 2 to your old email right now.)

Be back later....

S.

AND~~~~~

I overcompensated with tepid, wishy-washy parenting .... trying not to wound the wounded.

It was as if we were given this wounded wild animal to raise ... with no pointers, no guidelines, no experience, no modeling.

Pepper:

I hope I don't come across as iggorant (because I am), but it almost sounds like that kind of "tangible" behavior would be less insidious than a WS in the fog. Except for the propensity to violence, I suppose.

I guess I keep wondering, in my sitch, why REALLY did it take me 11 freakin' years to realize something was way wrong with our M?? And, in fact, I only found out by accident. I would NEVER have read my W's email, even though I didn't need her password to do so. I trusted her to a fault.

Hope today is a good one for you. I'll be driving "The Dr Pepper Bus" back home most of the day! (it really is the exact same color as a Dr. Pepper can!).

-ol' Qfwfq

Hi Pepper ~

I just got finished reading your prayer request...my goodness...

Anytime I start feeling sorry for myself I just need to look around at other's troubles, and be grateful that mine are what they are and not someone else's!

I thought you might find this interesting - I attended a family/parenting support course when I first separated from my husband. While we were learning about children and their emotional needs the family counselor there taught us about how personalities are formed, and she pointed out that 75% of a child's personality is formed by the time they are 18 months old. Alot of "truths" about the world around them are absorbed at such a young age!

Alot of stuff is genetic too. Your poor son didn't exactly start off on an even playing field did he?

Having learned in Al-Anon that there is no such thing as odd coincidences (is it Odd or is it God?) I suspect that your son has exactly the right mother that he needs.

(((hugs)))

"Is it Odd or is it God?"

Love it! Thanks BR. I my borrow this.

Just talked to 'the kid" ... he sounded pretty sluggish and slow. Said he tried to pick a fight with staff last night and they gave him tranquilizers. (?horse tranquilizer?) Even with this, he said his heart is still beating like a rabbit. They did an EKG and his heart is OK, but still fast. Really, it must feel awful being manic.

He said he wants to come home and be a family. I asked, "What are you going to do to earn your way back?" I know this sounds harsh in light of his past ... but, this comes from the therapist's advice.

Kid answered that he needs to stay on his meds and to start being respectful.

Anywho ..... I've heard this before. he had to be in group home placement from Nov. 2000 to Feb 2002. he's been home just over one year!

Been there, done that.

I am not making any decisions until we get guidance from therapy and the MD too.

Thanks for prayers. Keep 'em coming.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kid answered that he needs to stay on his meds and to start being respectful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good answer...and he is not even on his meds yet!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Abandonment issues? You bet'cha.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At your son's age, kids seem to have a different boyfriend/girlfriend every week. How does he handle this? Does the abandonment come into play here?

What about his girlfriend now? Did he act normal around her off the meds?

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

pepperband...

A wound which I pridefully thought that I could overcome with my determined love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I really am only beginning to understand what this wound is all about.

this is very common... it is quite logical to think that you could love it away...unfortunately love is a double-edged sword... it's one of those things that only gets better with acceptance...

did you read my reply to you in my “does it matter that” thread?...

oaktown...

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: oaktown ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you've gotta find a way to survive, cuz they win when your soul dies...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what is this about oaktown? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Susan:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you've gotta find a way to survive, cuz they win when your soul dies...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what is this about oaktown? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">susan...

it’s a hard/blunt positive statement to me...

it’s my reminder to keep my head up...
when things seem hard, not to give up...

it’s my reminder that suicide is not currently an option...

oaktown...

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: oaktown ]</small>