I have been reading and learning for several days. What a great group for support!

I have searched for info on my situation, could not find any. I have finally found the courage to ask..hope I am in the correct catagory.

In Dec. 02 my H's very good friend passed away after 1 1/2 year battle with cancer. He was 43. His wife cared for him during his illness. My H visited him frequently. He was in the same line of business as my H,but his wife was unfamilar with the business.

After the funeral my H visited the new widow's home often, and there are dozens of calls to her from his cell and several from our home. His reasons for visiting were always, well she needs help with the business finalization. He says he promised his friend to help her. Her family is unable to help, and she is enemy's with her husbands family. But there are other people who could have easily taken over.

He used to speak poorly of her. She is attrative, but pretty much an airhead. After the first few weeks of visiting her he became almost "protective" of her. Said she needs someone to take care of her. Doesn't bad mouth her any more. One night he came from her place and I swear he looked freshly showered. Deodorant strip still fresh on his undershirt. Hair to perfect to have been out and driving a 14 hour day. He stood in the bedroom doorway, tossing this glass back and forth while he spoke about her going to be alright, but she needs someone to take care of her. Boy did he look guilty. He had came home after work, pulled out of the drive and immediatly called her. Was there within 20 minutes and acccording to his cell, was there for several hours. Left his phone in his truck.

We have been married for 18 years, kids are 15 and 21. The eldest from my previous marriage.My H is 45 and attractive. I am 42, 5'1 120 lbs and attractive. Figure wise, you would never know I had 2 kids. The OW is our age, attractive, and has had a tendency in the past to flirt.

For the past 3 years we have battled constantly about our eldest. Our fights are ugly, disrespectful, and emotional. My H loves his beer, and although I try to avoid him when he has been drinking, sometimes I can't. He'll wake me if I am sleeping. He has said some pretty cruel things to me over the years, always when drinking. In reality I am a verbaly abused wife. Nicest man in the world when sober, but ugly when drunk

He quit wearing his wedding ring about 6 months ago. After I became suspicious of an A, I spoke to him about putting it back on. He refused at first and suggested I sell mine. Several days later I tried again and he is wearing it.

My reasons for suspicion? When I go away or outside is when he would call her. He has lied about being there, (I track him on his cell phone) and have kept a journal since Dec. about his activities. He became concerned about his appearance, breath mints, hair cuts..Withdrew from me in bed for awhile, then later surprised me with a new technique.

They had to meet for a business appt. It is equal distance from both homes. He chose to drive all the way to her house and pick her up. Would have been better for him if she had just met him there. Then they had lunch together. He lied about picking her up until I proved to him on his cell bill that he indeed left here and went straight to her house. The visits to her home were very often, altho now that I have confronted him, they are less...

So am I crazy? In all our 18 years I have never ever had reason to suspect him playing around. He has always had opportunity I am sure. He comes and goes and he pleases, actually he has always behaved as a bachelor, never had to check in at home.

When I confronted him about my suspicion, the first time he was apologetic. I told him that it hurt me trmendously that he can find time to do all this help for her, but doesn't have time for me or the kids. He acted very sorry. But he continued to call her and visit for one reason or another.
I kept watch, and then hit him with my feelings again. That time he got angry, told me I have a sick mind to think that he would play with his dead buddy's wife. Now if I bring up the subject, he gets angry, accuses me of probably cheating myself. He says "$%X# this, I don't have to take this $x#*"

I bought a phone recorder. The only thing I have been lucky enough to hear is her comments that prove he has been sharing our personal problems about our marrital problems and about our problems with my eldest with her. I had gone someplace with her for a day a couple weeks ago. We do know each other and have been friends (not close) for years. She told him that "I have to tell you I was quite uncomfortable with your wife the other day. I like her but I do not know her well." Then she blatently called my daughter a "stupid #X$#" and said that I set a rotten example. She said also that she is on his side because she is also a step-parent. He said nothing and quickly changed the subject. He did listen to her ramble for 25 minutes. They got cut off and he redialed her 6 times before he got her back. He said nothing more. I think because I believe he is suspicios of my snooping. He knows I can tell allot by the phone bills. Dummy me for blurting my secrets..

Another thing she said to me the day we spent together was strange. She told me thankyou for letting her borrow my husband. I said yes, he has spent a lot of time at your house, in fact the neighbors are even talking. Then she said "I am not sleeping with your husband". I had not given her any reason to think that I thought that she had.

I have saved several pair of his shorts. I know I read someplace here about a blacklight showing fluids. Seems to be on all of his though. I did find in his shorts, what I believe to be blond short hairs. Look like pubes to me..I am brunette, so is he. She is blond.

Well now that I have everyone confused....even myself..

Has anyone else had an experience like this with the grieving widow? Believe me, she's sad but has not given up living. She parties, goes gambling, and is headed to Vegas and on to Denver to ski next month.

Do H's try to make you believe it is your imagination? He has been too nice these past few days. Like he is trying to throw me off. Or maybe it was short lived and has changed his mind. I don't know, but I know my intuition says he's guilty, but he also has a tendency to tell lies to cover his drinking. He is not the cheating type. Am I competing here with her or the beer can, I don't know.
Hope someone has some insight..thanks in advance
I am anxious for replys..

The sign do seem to be there for an A. It may not be a sexual, but probably is at least partially physical. Act as if he is, but act wisely. Maybe someone will post up a the quick start guide before I find it.

A lot of what you pointed out are so, so typical signs of an affair.

The "grieving widow" situation just makes both folks more vulnerable to an A because of vulnerability issues and easier justification. But otherwise, isn't that special.

<small>[ February 27, 2003, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: est ]</small>

Thanks EST for the tips. I did read the Quick start guide. It does help.

I was hoping to find info on the vulerability issue. Has anyone else had to confront this issue?

I don't think it's confusing at all. All the signs are pointing to an A. I don't have to re-type them, to me, it is obvious.

What do you want to do about it?

Please go to the home page and read the infidelity section, it will help you make informed decisions.

Thanks Ladyswing,
Really I have no idea what I am going to do about it. I have read the articles over and over..

I guess I am just looking for others opinions to reassure myself that I am not reading more into it.

I did confide in my Mother, who is also a dear friend of mine. There is no doubt in her mind.
The thing is like all of us, I must know for sure.
I cannot just let it go and see what happens..

Next week I will be out of town for several days. He'll have plenty of opportunity.

I need of PI, but in this little town they are non-exsistant..

Does anyone have any idea how to tell the difference between semen and urine with a blacklight? or is it impossible..

I would recommend that you figure out a way to catch him.

If you are like me, you really don't want it to be true so you don't really want to find out for sure. However, for you to go on and get this resolved you will need definite proof. Either he confesses which probably won't happen or you catch them red-handed. It's called D-Day on this forum.

You are smart enough already to do what you need to do. Follow him. Set it up. If you can do it without him finding out, hire a PI.

Finding out for sure will save you from lots of wasted time. I let my WS' affair go on for too long when the hand-writing was right on the wall!

Stay here and we will help you.

Danneill,

I've never had to use a black light to be able to tell if semen is present.

Urine won't show up on dark shorts. It will basically show up yellow on light/white colored shorts.

Semen on the other hand will show up kind of a translucent white on dark clothes. It is kind of glimmery like slug slime, almost sparkly. And, it will harden somewhat so that if you run a finger nail across it, it will be noticibly different feeling than the material itself. Urine may also feel like that on material though. It is the glimmery look that is different. I don't know if semen turns yellow after a period of time on white clothes, I suspect it does but it will be more 'crusty' than urine.

Hope that helps a little. I also believe that you can order a semen detection kit online but I don't know where. Maybe if you do a search on it you'll find it.

~GoldMinersDghtr

Hmmm... the OW, widow woman did get a bit defensive there and blurted out all that was on her mind that day, didn't she?

I know I can't judge others by what I would do, that's unfair, but if someone told me the neighbors were talking because their husband is spending way too much time at my house I doubt if I would jump straight to denying we were in bed together?!! You know what I mean? That was a strange reply.

Maybe a more innocent reply would have been something, anything that left sex completely out of the equation! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sex was obviously on her mind...

Your husband's "new technique" really raises a question in my mind. You have been married to the guy for 2 decades almost and suddenly he's got a new technique?

Things that make you go "Hmmm..."

The most obviously incriminating evidence you have are those phone bills. He was busted right in the beginning. You are not crazy.

Is there any way you could cut short your visit and be your own PI? You should definitely come home early and unannounced. Do some more investigating of your own.

You found a blonde hair in his drawers? What more do you NEED???!!! The sooner you face the truth the better for you and all the kids. The WS ain't gonna face any truth any time soon. They deny it to the bitter end, some of them... I don't mean this to sound harsh but the truth is staring you straight in the face, woman. Yes, indeedy!

My thoughts:

1. put one of those voice activated recorders in his vehicle.

2. better learn how to babble to these A nuts.
The OW tells you she is shocked at the neighbors suspicions and then tries to defend herself and say she is not having sex?

I would retort(babble back): Oh so you thought that to? Wow, you and your neighbors think alike!

3. Be cautious. Maybe you can't hire a PI but you can start looking suspicious. Not too much but keep your eyes open. Build your support group around you to help you in case this does lead to a d/d.

JMHO,
L.

If you can't do it next week due to out of town engagement, then plan it for a couple weeks later. Make like you have to be out of town again(perhaps to finish up something that didn't get taken care of on this first trip), only don't go out of town, or better yet go to her town, rent a room(use cash only), rent a vehicle(use cash only) that they won't know(preferably something with tinted windows), then stake out her place. Have a video camera ready to record any activity.

Perhaps you have a trusted friend who could follow your husband around for awhile. Preferably someone that does not like your husband(less likely to inform him).

Maybe you have brothers or sisters who could help you out in this area? Even your mother or father would maybe check up on him?

Does he use the computer? Chances are they communicate via chat. Look into spy software. I can help you out with this if you need it.

There is a world of actions you can consider if you really want to get the information. I especially like the voice activated recorder idea. GPS tracking devices on his vehicle is another option(however this can be quite expensive, anywhere from about $200 up).

Any and all of these tactics can work for you. However, in my opinion, you already have all you need. Even without the blonde hairs in his underwear. That gut feeling you have been having is almost as solid as the actual evidence. Listen to it!

I wish you the best, and hope you find what you need.

jd

Blond hairs in underwear would be a smoking gun for me. But you did say, they just seemed like blond hairs.

They seem to have semen detection kits (not as cheap as pregnancy tests unfortunately) on the internet. But even with that proof, there are excuses (i.e. self-stimulation). Too bad you can't get some of her underwear. But you can test the car seats and probably other stuff as well.

If you have a resource, consider enlisting a friend as a spy. Preferably one with a car w/ tinted windows.

In the meantime, think about whether you want the marriage or not. You probably have (since you've been reading so much), but haven't really expressed any preference here. I have a feeling that you are leaning towards not - that's certainly within your rights. I hope that you are able to avoid quick decisions that may be very difficult to reverse. The one consideration against this is that a BS can sometimes get away with a lot "justifiable" behavior early in the revelation.

<small>[ February 28, 2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: est ]</small>

Thank you all for the great advice. He disapeared for several hours again on Fri & Sat. I had so much company that I could not keep track.

I have to leave mid week thru Sun. Unfortunatly there is no way I can sneak home. Will have several kids and animals with me, and a couple hour drive away.Will have to wait awhile.

I have been using my thinking cap. Wish there was a way to get a copy of her phone bill. He doesn't use his cell to call her now because I have a BIG mouth and told my secret about that when I confronted him.

Can't get her trash, lives out in the country, but not even a tree to hide behind. Stake out is next to impossible.

He is totally computer illiterate. Could not even turn one on, so he must be using others phones, or she calls him.

Wish me luck...I am determined to find the truth. Don't know what I will do once I know, but know the truth I must!!!

Danneill

This may be a long shot, but, if he's going over there to *help her out* then why don't you offer to go along. If they aren't doing anything then he should have no problem with you ALSO lending your help, right? Afterall, she needs help, right?

I'm somewhat familiar with MB concepts, but not enough to know if this is LB. Anyway, the next time he offers to go over there just suggest that you would like to tag along. Better yet, why not suggest that instead just HIM going to her house, maybe the three of you could go out to eat.

selket

You asked about phone bills and semen detection kits. Below is the site for

www.getcheckmate.com/

www.phonebust.com

Thankyou deborahd for the links to these sites. I did buy the checkmate. It is easy to use and works! But unfortunatly, it is only circumstancial.

I also got a copy of her home phone bill via a PI. Costs $100 but is worth it. She called him 17 times in one month. He called her another 19 times. They practically spoke every day although only a few times for any length of time. I think they did most of their talking at her house...
Danneill

Why do you think most married copules end, or at least, slow down their friendships with recently widowed friends? It's very common.

The idea of you offering to go along to help is a great one, his reaction will tell you a lot.

In addition, it is totally inappropraite for your husband to be helping her. If she need helps then tell your husband that you feel it's inappropriate for him to help her but that you will be more than happy to do so. Call her and offer your help, go other and hang out. Just be helpful. More than likely you'll find that she really does not need help. But it will put you into the mix. It's a very good way to stop their relationship in it's track.

Also, using the voice activated recorder is a good way to find out what they are up to. Then if she still needs "help" from him you'll know what kind and where. If you know where/when they will be meeting, show up.

YOu may want to read the link at the bottom of my post about Plan A.

<small>[ March 15, 2003, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>

Hi All,
H has been good these past few days. No calls to or from suspected OW as far as I can tell.

Yesterday we had an another argument and the subject of his probable infidelity was mentioned. I slipped and said, "Well, we'll see won't we when the DNA tests come back".
He was very surprised and asked, "what DNA tests?"
I said nothing more.

From what I have learned you can have clothes ect.. DNA tested to determine whether there are also female DNA along with his own, thus proving sexual contact. It is very expensive though. I could not afford it.

My question for you is this. Do I dare bring this subject up again in an attempt to get a confession out of him? Since I have already slipped and mentioned it? When in fact I do have samples that could be tested but have not done so?
Just make him believe that I sent his undies in for testing?
Do I dare confess that I have in my possession 16 pair of his shorts, 14 of which tested positive for semen?

I guess I am just begging for that confession!

Although it appears now that maybe it is over. I just don't know how I will ever be able to trust him again, or get over the gut feeling that he was indeed guilty. I don't know how to forgive him, which is so unfair when I don't have solid proof.
Last night when we "made love" all that I could think of was him with her. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Please reply! Thanks
Danneill

Danneill,
It appears from all of your posts that your H is most certainly having an A. It also appears that he knows that he is getting away with it bacause you have not physically caught him in the act. You are still making love to him. Can we say: "CAKEMAN"?

I don't think that your threats are going to get him to confess. You have enough evidence to be fairly certain and I would begin to act on that. Are you protecting yourself from disease? My brother died from Aids due to an affair. He did not protect his wife...

Instead of playing games and threatening I would suggest that you schedule time with your H and sit down and have a very serious talk. Write down the things that you are feeling and the things that you have seen that make you suspect the relationship with the OW. Tell him that it is time to stop playing games and get to the truth. You deserve the truth and you need to let him know that you expect it now!

Have you been for any therapy? I think that a good marriage counsellor could help you make decisions about what steps to take next.

If he has been involved with the OW, you will need to decide if you want to try to continue the marriage or not. These are hard things to confront, but at this point you are playing married and not knowing if he is being faithful or not.

As long as you continue to let things slide, he will continue his actions. You have enough to suspect and he knows it. You have received so much good advice in youtr other threads, what have you done to make any changes in this situation? I see you asking the same questions and wonder why you are not taking action.

Please let us know.

Oh Ladysing58 you are so right. I know that. I just don't know which way to turn. What if I am wrong? That's the thing, our marriage was already unstable before all of this. Just mentioning the subject pisses him off so bad that he turns everything around and accuses me of just looking and wanting an excuse for a D.

Yes, I'm still sleeping with him unprotected. Yes I still love him. Yes I want everything I know already, all my "only circumstantial evidence to dissapear in my mind.

I know I need counseling. What I really need is the truth. Maybe I would probably be able to forgive him. I'm also not in the position to be on my own and either is he. We have built our small empire these past 18 years. It will be destoyed and so many of our loved ones with it.

I wrote him a really long letter, much of what I could get from many posts.
GOt to go I'll be back, he is home
I'm so sorry about your Brother..
Danneill

Wow. Very shrewd move with the "DNA Test". Not an outright lie; not an ultimatum; but leaves them wondering. Since DNA testing is probably not a realistic option for you, I would just not talk about the testing anymore. However, work on maintaining the perception that you potentially know things that he does not. And not because you are manipulative or deceptive. Just because you are smart, prepared, and being prudent.

Hopefully this will knock some sense into your (potentially) WH and prepare him for the "talk".

Since it does seem like you want to save the marriage, I do hope that your H will be strong enough to face his weaknesses and be honest with you. Good luck.

I hope you don't have to "beat" him into confessing. Making it safe for him to be honest can go a lot further towards working things out. As well as reinforce guilt.

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: est ]</small>