ok my STORY IN "JUST FOUND OUT "

Is cake eating and fence sitting FOG?

From what I get out of raeding YES .

AND recovery never starts till N/C is done .
OK I am following .

I need more advice , help input any words of encouragement anything .

Ok H still in contact OW , big time .

Says hsa no feelings except of pity .
Won't tell her he is home (will devistate her ) cause all problems with job always threating him .

H wants her to go away on her own .(been home a year not seeing that theory happening )

Will D me if I approach her or tell any about situation .

Conflict avoider ,very REMORSEFUL when came home (think fog was lifing )
More in contact more I saw change in accepting responsblity .

What is the difference between FOG and scamming me ?
Says he loves me everyday , sleeps with me (sex on the slow side not by my choice) calls everyday all the time , tells me when he is seeing her or if she calls and if he returns her calls.

Says he is not happy because she is a bother but won't make a move to ignore her. Says the more I am nice to her the more quit she is and doesn't attack me she just gets fustrated and will move on .Then says he says her bothering him is something he can handle one day at a time and what he can't handle is that I make it such an issue .

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Doesn't understand why I can't treat it like a non exsisting thing and ignore it GET OVER IT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I asked him to leave so I do not have this contact in my face and so I can preserve what love I have left .
NO NO NO is the answer I won't leave you or my family ever again , your stuck with me we belong together .

I have not dane a good plan anything (PLAN A) LB all the time because of his Dr. Jekal/ Mr. Hide personality . sorry one day , I don't give a $hit the next and the no big deal one gets me all the time or your MAKING YOURSELF UPSET and I give you 100% honesty then you can't handle it .

Please explain is it FOG? IS it manipulation? Is fog manipulation? Is is denial? Is that part of FOG also?

I really feel now he is totaly slipping away . I feel like a doormat one day and the next I feel like no I am stating that I do not agree with what he is doing and that I am with him out of love and for him to make his own chioce as an adult .

Any thoughts? I do feel I can go on maybe another 3 mons or so . Help your advice and VHO are needed .

Ok slow down on those resposes , I can't keep up with all of them .

Ok maybe I should have wrote "URGENT" HELP NEEDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good Bye . Anyone , Anyone ....................

Perhaps some WSs can comment on the cake eating issue and why they do that. I speculate that it is an internal battle between the fog and the reality of how "wrong" the situation is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Won't tell her he is home (will devistate her ) cause all problems with job always threating him . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is the situation there? My memory is a little, err, foggy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I really think that you need to try to do a great plan A at this point. From what you have written it sounds likes he is wanting to end the A, but he doesn't feel it is "safe" for him to do so. Is that unfair and ridiculous? Of course, but that's how I think these things work, unfortunatey. I could be totally wrong here, but that's my best guess. Sorry to be of so little help.

-Luki

Thenks for response , The job threat well never really got into it here , lets just say when he was gone (not living here but with her) he gave me his HOLE PAY CHECK and was in need of money .

Sometimes peolpe do things in front of people they should not . GET THE PICTURE !!!!!!!

It all stopped but it did happen , or so they say .

I asked if he misses me all day , he said not really I mean I live with you . He said, its weird when I was out of the house I could not stop thinking of you .

When you don't have something you want it, when you have it your use to it

I am doing nothing different ,I mean now I am LB alot but when he was gone I has DR. Jeckel -MRS. hyde.

I am some where between PLAN A or 180 D buster .

don't know what to do . Just wish I can understand FOG,CAKE EATING ,AND FENCE SITTING .

All the same? simalar? very different?

He is not happy , his sleepless /restless nights are getting worse and added chest pains (heart attacks farthers side) talking in his sleep , yelling things out ,depressed half the time and withdrawn other half .

We went out togther Sun. all day FOOTBALL GAME (areana ) Had great time he was happy and enjoying himself with ME.

He seemed relaxed , I don't know .

It sounds like he is on a 'coaster ride as well. It's good that you had a good time together. I think more experiences like that will turn the tide. IMVHO, try your best not to do the Mrs. Hyde thing in front of him. That would be better played out here. Hang in there.

-Luki

Ok one more last effort , H and I had another talk . Explained everything once again and most of all that I love him but I am not a doormat , stupid , or second to no one .

I explained that I can completely understand any confustion and If he needs me I am here , but I must have complete honesty and I do not feel he is giving me that .

H said he is completely honest and knows what he is doing hurts me and him but plans to continue on handling OW like this , because he feels it is best for everyone (what ever)

WE established a final dead line one witch I told him I will not go back on . 3 MONTHS of getting rid of her his way after that he tells her hes home or he drops off the face of the earth and never again heres, sees, or contact in any way shape or form .

Like it has been said , now I need to PLAN A and not fall off .

He still has expressed that I don't give him a chance to be remorseful or show anything to me cause I expect it right away and he gets angry and just does the revese and cause he knows that I am demanding he be a certian way (ok I know he has a point I have admitted that )

I need support and to vent I know without that I can't go through this alone .

I just hope my worst fear is not going to come true that its me he is getting rid of in 3 months for her .

Although I will be expecting it in the back of my mind .

I guess if it is true I will see it right in my face , the nicer I am if he pushes away and ignores me I'll no its to make me LB he knows how to push those buttons .

I need the best me for 3 months so I can feel complete at this and have no regrets none .

Any words of wisdom out there .

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: 3isacrowd ]</small>

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: 3isacrowd ]</small>

Ok I need HElP anyone reading PLEASE respond .
I am in PLAN A right now I mean 3 mon. And this time I need to do it .

Heres problem already on the rise .

H called says in bad mood , "he feels" like OW will start in tonight and probbly will have to see her because its his B-day this SUN. and she will use tonight to give him 3rd degree about where and who he will be with at night . (after drops off kids all lie HE LIVES HOME)

Anyway this I finds to be BBBBBSSSSSSSSS but no lB right anyway what do I say , how do I act whn that call comes in at 5pm that he is seeing her and tonight when he comes home that he is going to say she is wanting him to hang with her on his B-DAY .

When he expessed his thoughts on phone he was looking to get a rise out of me , I listened ,he said more like I just can't take all this I wish it would stop . H waited for my respose .

I said , I am sorry to here you sound so depressed and having this anxity about the way your day will pan out . I really do hope to see you tonight , you been so tired lately and thought you needed the rest , he said yes I would love to come home and just relax , but I feel like that is going to be a problem ya know .

I wish I could take your pain for you but the best I am cappable of is being there for you , because although it may sound selfish this causes me to much pain myself . He said, i know it does .

I did say sometimes I feel the best thing I could do is to move on . He said , without me what would that solve . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

What do I say tonight ? do I just say I love you and see you when you get in? do i express any more that this is killing me? Do I freak out and tell him he is full of $HIT (only kidding LB LB LB I know but thats what i usually do ) I do it cause I don't want him to think he is pulling wool over my eyes and I think it is all a lie .

REALLY NEED MB INSIGHT ON THE MIND OF A WACKO (FOG) PLEASE how do I start responding to this without totaly getting steped on and getting my point across .

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thank You Thank you those responses just knocked me on my A$$ . Really had a hard time keeping up with all the VHO .

Hi 3's a crowd,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Will D me if I approach her or tell any about situation .
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds like he's "divorced" you already and is just enjoying the benifits of two wives. What do YOU want out of your M?

If you truly want to rebuild your M, then you need to decide how much of your H's cake eating you're willing to put up with... Then you need to let your H know what your boundaries are... NO CONTACT. PERIOD... if he does contact her for whatever reason, then you must be willing to enforce your boundary.

Plan A doesn't mean that you are a door mat for your WS to wipe his feet on... which is exactly what he's doing with his continued contact with the OW.

Sorry for the slow responses... it's usually slow on the weekends...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

I am so confused to some or should I sy very little responses that I get .

If H doesn't here from OW he doesn't have contact , as best to what I know .

How is it cake eating , and not FOG? and is anything possiable true . If he is conflict avoider then can it be true he just is trying to let her go on her own cause he won't tell her he is home , hoping he never has to admit to her that he is a lier ?

He absolotly refuses to leave , he has every opertunity , and I do not make the situation easy for him when he does see her and express my dislike to what he is doing . How am I any more of a door mat then anyone else who's spouse still has contact?

There are plenty here who's not in plnB and have not contacted OP and I can't get the difference .

If she don't call then he don't bother .

I am not saying that ,that Is what I want in my life either but trying to understand what it is I am in , and how do I help HIM ?

What do I want from my M ?

Well I want to give and recieve love , honesty , respect , communication and GERAT SEX !!!!!!!!!!

A family life my children my H and freinds and family around .I want to laugh and cry when I need to , to be heard to have my pian thought of as serious .

I need insite to WS to know what is going on , to understand the FOG?

Hi 3,

Your H's ACTIONS show that he still has feelings for the OW that he is placing ABOVE his feelings for you and the M... Just because he isn't physically going over to see the OW doesn't mean that he's not "fence sitting" or "cake eating"...

You want your H's full, undivided attention and affection. You deserve 100% of him... but right now, even though your H isn't physically seeing or calling the OW, he isn't giving 100% of his heart to you. I think that is what you are struggling with.

Have you and your H been to see a MC? Are you in any sort of IC? If you haven't read Torn Asunder by Dave Carder, get a copy and read it... I think that it will help you with some of the feelings that you are struggling with.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

How much longer before you don't have any self esteem left? It sounds as if your H likes the way things are. He is setting ALL of the rules. He has absolutely no incentive to change. Get used to this way of life because this is the way it will be for you forever unless you establish some boundaries.

Plan A is supposed to be about being true to yourself. Do you think the way that you are allowing yourself to be treated right now is accomplishing that?

I personally would not tolerate a continued presence of the OW in my H's life. How are you able to be accepting of this? I would feel sick every day. At some point don't you feel like you have no self respect? I don't mean to beat you up over this I just don't understand how you can let anyone treat you this way.

Don't let everything be his decision. You can have a say in your M as well. Do you honestly think that he is still hanging with the OW just because he doesn't want to get in a hassle with her. He is putting the feelings of this OW before yours. Like the deal with his birthday. What is up with that?

What is the worst that could happen if he tells this OW that he is living with his wife? She will dump him and he obviously doesn't want that. That is why he threatens you about telling her. He wants control of both of you. He has the control in everything about this relationship.
If you ever did talk to this OW, I bet you would be in for a shocker. The gig would be up on his end for sure.

I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you, because that is not what I'm trying to get across. Your h's actions just infuriate me and I had to jump in or explode.

Long story , my H does see OW and call her only when she contacts him. she does not know he is home .
No , MC can't afford it and H WILL NOT GO , says that we are cappable of getting through this on our own . Not a big deal it happened and its over , except the fact that she doesn't know he is home .

So she feels she has free rain on his life .

Anyway backto the fence sitting and cake eating .

There are plenty here whos spouses are still in contact , so I read some things and don't understand the difference .

They are told fog, deep fog so why is mine the other way around . Is it cause he is affectionate and does speak of the R between me and him not ever ending ?

Others are nasty or ignore them so thats fog?

I am having a hard time , even reading on fog , spouse thinks they are in love or what ever . So mine is feeling guilt for OW .

I know I can not through him out he won't leave .
(have tried)

Contacting her well an option not very good , same resaon why alot of people including myself won't go for the D , not going to help him make things easy .

D no I won't

Leave my house No I won't

Lots of resaons (not excuses )

I just feel like if I can understand fog or any of it I can be more motivated to do a proper PLAN .

This in part has been my fault for not being strong enough to do a plan A for any amount of time .

I sware before I found MB I did a perfect PLAN B and straight to PLAN A and he was begging like a dog .

It was wonderful , came home and 5 months was good , contact started worse and I am assuming when I found MB I am understanding that he went into fog again .

Mistakes yes I did Bounderies and yes I screwed that up . But can't take it back now .

Now I just want to be happy , but more then that I want him to feel safe to tell the trueth and I thought I conveyed that to him every way I knew how , giving him options to leave and that I would help in every way for it to go smoothly for him and my kids. got to go somthing came up

Anneliese- I will respond later I must have posted while you were writing , and its ok I feel the same way about my situation , but am trying with everything in me to save my M and to be with a man I know once loved me very much .

This to me is not the same person , some things out of character and the things that are what I know about him are the ways he is handling when he gets in to a mess .

AAAAVOID at all coast and it will go away on its own . That is why I do not give up on him or us .

I am depressed and angry and no I don't do yes dear heres a condom have fun , give a kiss and see ya when every you want .

That to me is a door mat .
I am trying to understand what he is telling me , trying to understand he may be confused and trying to be a friend and at the same time get my point across to him not to have any fears .

we have agreed to 3 months then he tells her Or he must leave at witch time I will have a long talk with her .

Yes I plan on sticking to it but until then , I need to give this my all , at least all I have left .

I will drain myself for the sack of my M , and I do not think this makes me a door mat .
I am in love with my H , i do not want a D and I want my h to be happy .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Long story , my H does see OW and call her only when she contacts him. she does not know he is home .
No , MC can't afford it and H WILL NOT GO , says that we are cappable of getting through this on our own . Not a big deal it happened and its over , except the fact that she doesn't know he is home </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not a big deal, it happened and it's over????? It's not over. Your H drops everything and doesn't consider your feelings when OW calls. The fact that he is willing to spend his birthday with her should tell you that. If he is over her then her feelings would not come into play. Your feelings and only yours should be the ones that he is trying to protect. Period.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Will D me if I approach her or tell any about situation </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again her feelings before yours. And to threaten you with something that he knows that you are most afraid of is very controlling behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Mistakes yes I did Bounderies and yes I screwed that up . But can't take it back now </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, but you can establish new bounderies. Just because you made a mistake making them in the past doesn't mean that you set new ones. The key is to stick to them. Draw the line of what you absolutely will not tolerate anymore.

It seems your husband has no respect for you and maybe that is because he can walk on you. Establishing bounderies will gain his respect. It will tell him that you won't be a victim anymore. Everyone needs bounderies whether it be friends, children, spouses, co-workers, everyone needs them. Healthier relationships exist because of them.

You can be happy, but the way you are living right now really isn't going to accomplish that. I wish I had all the answers myself. I think that if you stood up for yourself and didn't allow him to put OW first this would eventually lead to a more honest relationship between you both.

Your H is in a fog. But he is also taking advantage of your kindness and your fears. He is a cake-eater, fence sitter and in a fog all in one. He is very lucky to have such a patient wife. But the way he is treating you, left unchallenged or unchanged will in time, kill the feelings that you have for him. That issue alone might be able to help you establish those bounderies that you need in order to make your marriage work.

Sorry I didn't see your most recent post. I totally understand what you said about doing things at all cost to save your M. There is only a few things that you must consider. One is yourself and one being your children. If you drain yourself so completely to try to save your M you might not have anything left for them or yourself. And what if your H decides to cut contact with OW and to do everything you want him to but you are too drained from the experience to really care. Just take care of your kids and yourself too in this process. He'snot the only one who needs some TLC.

It does appear that you have set a boundary. The one being by the end of 3 months he must tell OW the truth or leave. That's a good step.

I don't think that you are a doormat at all. I didn't mean to give you that impression. You are just a little beaten down by your situation. And no one can blame you. You have been through a lot and the fact that you are fighting for what you believe in is very admirable.

My situation was different to yours so I can't and won't judge you. I just want you to make sure while trying to save your M and make your H happy that you don't forget about your needs and your own happiness!!!

Hang in there!

Sometimes I feel like I have a handle on this and other times well running in the best thing or LB 'ing and going nuts are the only thing I want to do loose total control .

It some times feels so good to just yell scream and well say so many things to beat him down with .

I know it gets no where , he comes back at me and me at him and round and round we go !!!!!!!!!

There are days when I tell him please just leave and go be with her things are ok go . And I wish he would say ok . Then I would be just well calm no knots in my stomach and no guessing what they are doing just except it hes with her ok .

Then knowing him gets to me , I start to belive everything he is telling me that he does it to just make her go away on her own .

He is like that will just sit there and let someone talk yell and rant and ignore them I have seen him do it so I know he is capable of it .
So when he tells me he does it to her I am starting to belive it .

But what bugs me is I know he is secure with me , I mean he says he loves me and knows I love him and will not let that go , he is secure in that .

I do belive he loves me and do belive he hates what he is doing to me in this situation . I do see the pain in his eyes and the guilt . He is not happy and I can see that .

I do belive his health is at risk , and he looks the worsed I have ever seen him.

I sometimes think that I give in to this not to make it so hard on him ,I know sick right .

But no matter how much pain he has caused me I still can not handle knowing he is in pain even if he did it to himself .WHY? I find myself sitting here crying sometimes like now more for his pain then my own . I care about what he does to himself . I care about his choices more for how it affects him then me .

Off this part .

OW , even if they are sceeming to be together , how forfilled is she? I mean he lives here ? They see one another what at the most 1 hour a day and 2x's some times for a couple of hours?

She was living with him and he walked out so she had it and now gone ? I know from speaking to her she wants it all .

The commitment M , kids , family out in the open no hidding ? so when will she break ?

I mean weather she knows he is home or not she has to be LB'ING and I know she does and she is a single mom , was abused (battered) and got away and on with life , 29 yrs old and not bad looking so what kind of life is this for her ? I know not my concern .

Thats another reason why I start to belive him , that she is so hurt out for revenge and to make him misarable cause she is pissed at her self for falling into this . Emotional abuse and wants to give alittle back .

I know bottom line if he loves me and respected me and wanted to change he can do it .
But can it be fear ,like he says . He brings it all in the open and then he has to admitt to someone else ( not just me ) that he did a terriable thing and he is running from that .

OK FRI,night 3:00 am !!!!!!!!!!!

Helped OW get cloths out of storage ,whatever then agrued and then feel asleep at table woke up came home . That is his story .

LB big time , well this is why I can't get through this . I have not correctly done any plan. I can't seem to just let there relationship run its corse .

I think thats why this has gone on for so long .

I am here , I read , then I know what to do and then I screw up right away .

And I think he is reaching , I mean he is not getting as angree anymore at me yelling , just says we can't talk if your yelling and I can defend myself cause I am wrong . Then he will say why won't you just let me love you .? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> why do you make it so hard to get close to you ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sat going ok after fight , then the $lut calls , he answers . More fight . Then he gets mad , I had to answer , if i don't she will do it all day , this way she stops .

Ok we go shopping all day with kids and then out to dinner have good time , home kids go to bed watch some movies & cuddle . VERY affectionate all day hand holding kisses all the time and hugs .

Sun. plays football with freinds ( yes I verified everything ) calls minute game is over , brings breakfast hame for family went to 4 different stores to get me the milk I drink for my coffee .

chat a bit takes son for har cut and comes home .
HAVE sex........... GREAT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

OW calls after we finish and yes he takes the call GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR . Asks me not to fight he knows that , that looked bad and he felt like an a$$ but its best to keep her quit . ( he did not answer right away witch did piss her off she had to beep 3 x's ) And it was not right after Sex about 30min. (ok still bad)

Went to play min. golf had nice time ok on affection part and then home ate dinner and watched some movies after woulds .

So does anyone agree I need for these 3 mon. to let this A take its corse and just be a better me ? am I now just pushing him in her arms ? and if this is what he says am I just still pushing him away . ?

should I just remind him on the 3 mon and leave it at that and if all this is being done to get to me then not give her the satisfaction to know I am fighting with him?

Comments , please keep open mind that I want My M .