K, thank you for your advice. Have you had a chance to read revised version of the letter by Ark. I think is real good. I am not sure how my H is going to react. I am afraid that if he does not leave then I don't know what to do next. I won't move out, why should I. Also, if he's got the job then he only needs couple of weeks to go by. What if he'll take this as LB. What if he'll say to me, "I am trying to work on this marriage, but I was wrong again about you. You have proved again that you do not love me and that you don't care about me." Something like that, that's what I think he'll say to me.

What should I do then?
Also I am not a 100% sure about the job if he has it, but I have a good feeling that he does. Should I call to find out?

Ark,
Excellant letter. I love it. I am just afraid of his reaction. Like I mentioned above what if he does not leave? What then? What if he is going to call OW on purpose to demonstrate that he does not realy care and that I made demands and that I push him away, and that I do not give him space. Believe me he'll think of something like that.

Also, what do you think about me leaving the house for the night and not letting him know my whereabouts?
Also, Ark, what do you think about what K said: "I personally think it's bad form to leave a letter like this as a "reaction" to a situation."

I do have her phone number do you think I should call? My girlfriend wanted to call her the other day and have a talk with her. Should I let her do it?

Let me know guys and thank you so much for your support.

My H is back from his trip and he is going crazy. Called house 10 times, but I have not picked up the phone. I hate his games but now I am going to play mine. I will be leaving soon, and will stay at my parent's place, but will park my car on diff street, so that he does not see it, just in case if he decides to drive by.

I will not leave a letter today, but I will e-mail him tomorrow. What do you think?

I will check soon for your reply.

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much.

I think that Ark's rewrite is excellent. I was gonna post that earlier, but the damn system logged me out (errrrrr... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ).

You asked:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if he'll say to me, "I am trying to work on this marriage, but I was wrong again about you. You have proved again that you do not love me and that you don't care about me." Something like that, that's what I think he'll say to me.

What should I do then?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pull a Steve Harley. Ask him how he is working on the marriage. (Sleeping with the OW???) Let him know that he'd be more effective in working together with you on a plan to build the marriage. Let him know that you do care very much about the marriage and are willing to work on it after he pitches the OW, but you find it difficult to maintain your love for him when he's behaving like this. Ask him for suggestions on how to make this work like whacking him over the head with a 4x4. Suggest counseling when he doesn't come back with anything positive.

You basically want to be a mirror for this conversation---reflect back his requests. Make him actually think about what he's doing, and justify it to you. All without being reactive. Until he clearly sees what he's doing (and then figures out how and why it's wrong and not to his best interests), you can only set the stage for recovery. He's got to get up there and do his part, eventually.

Thisis,

You have to change your thought process and wrap your thoughts around the fact that you are not doing ANYTHING to him...

That you are doing to protect YOU...

His reaction is somewhat irrevlevant when you are taking steps that protect you from pain, disrepect, and turmoil.

Has he cared about your reaction to him flying out every weekend...nope
has he cared about your reaction to calling the OW in front of you...nope
has he care about your reaction when he threatens to divorce you nope...
does he care about what he stands to lose in relationship to his child...nope...

This is all about you...
this has nothing to with him...
you can't change him, control him, manipulate him. make him say do feel anything...
ALL you can do is decide what you need to do to protect and shelter yourself from gross disrepect

Don't power struggle and get sucked into his babble...you don't love me crapola.. HA HA HA !!!! TRY to keep a straight face when he lays that one on ya... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...babble back..dear it's difficult to love a man who gets on a plane every weekend to be with another woman...

think like orchid said about what you will allow/tolerate in your life...

you can do this.......
I'll post more later I gotta run.
ARK

Ark, K thanks again I seriously don't know what I would do without you guys. I really value your wisdom and good advice.

I am at my parent's place and am not planning to go home for the night. I have also not called to let him know that I am here, he also won't call here. I figured if he does not call when he ids gone, he does not care about the baby or me, why should he worry now that I am not home. Besides I was expecting him to be home on wednesday and he did not come home, so how would I know he was comming today. He had my sister in law calling here, my mom answered the phone and said that I was not here, but then the baby started crying. Well I will just say that I was not there at the time if they ask.

I figured that if he leaves and I don't know where he is why should I tell him my every step and move and thought. I learned from my mistakes. I was always to honest with him, as I loved him deeply and believed that you have to be honest with each other. Now that I look back at our relationship, I think my husband was never honest with me. There was always something he was hiding from me, there was always some sort of mistery about him. We used to fight about this, he would say that it was not important or that he forgot to tell me. Yeah right. His whole family is like that, they keep things for themselves.

I am just not that person, I like sharing everything with the one I love. Well I guess I was blind and did not see that.

I love him and our baby more than anything in this world, but I am starting to question if I ever be happy with him again even if he decides to be with me. How can I trust him again. I know we would need to do counsling.

I have mixed feelings. At one point I want him badly and then I have doubts that we could survive this. I know it will take time to heal and to trust him again.

Well I guess for now I should concentrate on fighting and getting my H back.

Ark you mentioned earlier in your post that I should call OW. Do you think this would do any good. I was planning to do that much earlier in the affair, what do you think she'll say?

Thank you so much.

Thisis,

I guess the question is when do you plan on seeing him next.
And what are going to do/say?

What you want to avoid are dragged out emotional power struggles....

What you need to figure out is can you do that?

Could parents watch the baby and you meet him somewhere public where the pressure is on to maintain good controls?

could you stand being the same house with him?

Does he have family/friends to go to...

what is intolerable to you?

why won't HE call your parents?
why his sister?

what do your parents say about this/him...how involved are they with all of this.

I think that contacting the OW is part of exposing an affair...especially when the WS maintains this huge denial factor....

And that part of his fantasy and cake-eating involves lies to everyone...

I am not recomending it..but I am glad you have her number...

You need be strong enough to face his accusations and attempts at turning things on you....
K makes excellent points about mirroring back all his attacks at you...
not trusting
not loving...etc...

Think about what he is expecting when he faces you...
emotionally unstable...pleading why begging why...
suprize his little butt...be in control be calm...be clear that he has done what he has done...and you and he can not change it...but from this moment on you are taking control of you and what you will tolerate...

kiss and hug that baby up tonight...
be safe...
seek peace and know that you hold great value to this universe....and that makes you significant to everyone.

you are very brave THISIS...and you are taking small (huge) strides in finding you...
find and fight for YOU first and you will win the fight for love...no matter the outcome of you and him.
God's Grace to you
ARK

I was wrong about my H's return. He was calling the house few times and I did not pick up the phone, I thought he came back since he did not call me when he was away. Anyway I called him today, and he is still with OW.

This was suppose to be one day trip for an interview? He said that he sent me an e-mail and that he is coming back Sunday????
That's it. He lied again, said he is going for one day, now he is coming back on Sunday?

He said in his e-mail that he is going to move to a hotel for few days as he knows that I would not probably like to see him for what he has done to me. Damn right. This is even better as he is moving out on his own so I do not need to throw him out.

He crossed a line this time. If he moves out, and calls me later asking if he can come back I'll say this time that he no problem he can come back only if he ends it with OW. Also, I will tell him that I am not keeping his A a secret anymore.

Can you imagine he went for 5 days and told me he is going for a day for an interview. He sent me an e-mail (probably did not mean anything he said in that e-mail) explaining his actions and saying that he wishes that he could explain his behaviour and that he wishes that he could explain why he is doing this. Nothing about working on our marriage etc.

I am planning on calling few people from his work place (annonymous) just to spread a rummor about his A.
Also, I am thinking about calling this woman sho was suppose to get him a job there just to make sure that he's got it or not, so I know for myself. What do you think?

Ummmm..
I'm thinking if I were you...I would call the OW...
what the heck do you have to lose?...and why not fill her in on what you husband has been telling you...

shake up that little fantasy they have going on...

I would call asking to clarify her address as you are planning on packing up his dirty clothes that he left and sending them to her...

Does she know you have a baby?

I would pack up his belongings and take them to his parents.
I would empty out the bank accounts...all to protect you....

Do WHATEVER you need to to protect you...go ahead and call about the job...

You own no one and explanation for your actions...

Exactly how does he explain his actions in his email...did you need an alien fog interperter?

As a dad this guy really sucks....

I am so sorry for you thisis....
ARK

Ark,

I have called Ow's work place to talk to the women that was suppose to offer him a job, to ask if he has accept it, but she said that beyond taking his resume nothing has been offered or done. But then she also said that some other people might have offered him a job, not her thought, and she is unaware if this is the case.

So there is still a possibility that he has a job, it just might be different department.

Also, OW is not at work, I believe that it is Murch Break now, so they have probably gone somewhere with kids.

My H mentioned that he is coming back on Sunday and that he is going to stay at a hotel, before coming home, also that he might not be going to work for few days. I think this means that he is not coming back on Sundays, he wants me to think that he is back Sunday. I bet he won't even stay at the hotel. Well I have sent him an e-mial saying that before he comes home I want to meet with him to talk to him.

Our primary language is not english so he wrote his e-mail in the language we speak at home, otherwise I would copy his e-mail for you to read.

Basically he is saying that he is asking himself why did this happen, why he did this to me. That he does not understand himself and wishes he could get amnesia or something to forget about the whole incident. Then he mentions about forgetting and being forgiven by others, that he knows that he has hurt lots of people and that he does not think they will forget nor forgive him (including me).
Then he says that he wishes that he could just wake up one day and that this was just a bad dream. Then he says that he would like to sit down with me and talk about this situation.
Then he mentions that everytime when he gets home, he always goes to our D room, to give her a kiss, (which is not really true).
Then he says he loves us both every much. BULL.
Then he says that he is severally depressed and needs help.

I think he is playing me again as he wants to come back home and act like nothing happen.

I sort of LB to him well his answering machine. He was suppose to call me back, ans he did not, so I called and left a msg since he did not pick up the phone. And in calm voice I said to him that I wish I could understand his actions and that he is hurting me very much, and also said that I want to talk to him and that I will no longer hide his affair from others. (I did till now, as this is what he wanted me to do) I think he'll be mad that I said that I will not longer hide his A, as he said to me one (blackmail) that if I say to others then reconciliation b/w us will be even harder. (fog?)

I came to a point where I will no longer lie for him, why should I if he's done so many hurtful things to me.

I am also planning to fly to talk to OW in person? What do you think? She just knows me from his perspective, maybe if she sees me as a normal human being, she'll feel sorry about this whole thing?
Well I was planning on telling her that he has cheated on me once before, I doubt that he told her that. I think she knows most of the stuff about us. She knows about the baby she even saw our Wedding pictures and our D's pics.

Clean out bank accts. Put in another bank so he cannot walk in and freeze them even if in your name. Make sure you are financially covered first and foremost!
Then keep him out of house until he talks to you face to face. Time he has to clean up all the lies and deceit.
Telling OW family is a good idea! Mine also threatened our marriage was over if I told OW H. Well, you'd have to know me because I don't take threats! So I sent her H all their emails, the info where they stayed when they flew twice to Fl to be together. Poor guy was under the impression she was going for other reasons! Sh-- hit fan at her home that day!Of course, she went running to phone to call my H and complain about what a ***** I was! HAHAHA
Really? Well, so I am if that is what it took to scamble their little brains. My H ran directly to an atty. like he was going to file. Of course, I think when he found out the financial disaster he was about to cause, he calmed down. But he had also ran to the bank and moved money into his name only. I simply walked up to the manager and told her freeze that sucker now or I'll sue you all!
I stood firm! He went with me and moved it all back into our joint acct. Then I told him if he wanted the ***** so bad, go for it but not behind my back. I can do better than him anyday.
Well, he decided he didn't want her or a divorce. Just angry that I would cause little sweetie some payback problems from her end.
Her H called mine and told him never contact his W in any form again. The sat her down and made her write a NC letter to my H. End of story, end of A, and now he's working hard to atone for his actions and pain he caused me.
I firmly believe that bringing it down to decide now for him, was the turning point that put us on the track to recovery. It's not easy, it's had rough spots, but we're still working on it.
Next, he refused to allow me access to his email, but that changed also because I give ultimatums! I blocked every server she ever used on mail controls and a few more. They stay or I file! He used bought calling cards, which are all gone now and he doesn't leave house without me. He's now retired so it's easier to keep track. If he does run an errand without me, which is rare, he accounts for his time away.
We still have arguments and world war 111 occasionally.He throws her in my face like she's ready for him to come to her recently. I called her, She wants absolutely nothing to do with him ever again.
You see, whether others agree with me or not, I had to make him decide once and for all. I cannot tolerate what some of you do in allowing the A to continue and burn out! I'm too good to play second to anyone! I could replace him very quickly if I wanted to. I made that clear also.
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned is true!
When it comes to fighting back, I take no prisoners! She is so afraid of me and my son that she wouldn't dare interfere in my life again.
I think this is what teed H off most. We put the fear of God in her!
I also clued her in on what type of person he is today from the one she knew in HS. Also told her if she wants him, welcome to him now. LOL She says no way. I am staying with my H and if yours ever calls me, you'll be the first to know from me.
I have been a good wife, faithful and true. Knowing who I am helped a lot when I talked to myself. He had destroyed my self esteem only for a while. Searching out all the info on OW helped me rebuild it. And made him feel ashamed he had sunk so low!
This is my feeling. And why I refused to kiss his A-- to keep him. I'm better than she or the other he had A with. He knows it too.
I would not want a man to stay with me if I was not Number 1. So he had to choose. I wouldn't even allow him to stay friends though she was an old HS sweetheart, and stay with me.
He felt he needed to talk to her one more time and preferred seeing her one last time in person.
My reaction was go if you need to. But you are not coming back to a marriage, but divorce papers will be waiting on you. Choose your poison now!
I told him he'd had all the privacy with her he would ever have if he wanted his marriage and he had plenty of time to say all he wanted to say to her when on vacation with her. According to her, they had mutually decided to go home and save their marriages as they were very incompatible.
They couldn't recapture their youth was her comment. She is same age as I!
The bottom line is why keep someone tied to us if they prefer being somewhere else? I don't want a person like that in my life. I do not wish to keep a man just for kids or anything other than he loves me and prefers being with me! Our kids are grown so that is not a problem.
He made his choice to close her out of his life for good. In order to keep me. but we're still working through the pain caused and damages.
Some here do not agree with ultimatums. But to live in limbo for years or even months is not living.
Tell the OW's H and/or family now. Why fly to see her? Or do you need to see what she looks like? You can talk to her on phone. And have a PI take a picture of her, Even get other personal info if you wish. Probably cheaper than flying to see her. Only way I'd fly to see OW is if she was still hanging on to my H, and that would simply be to rearrange her face. LOL Not talk!
Good luck dear, God bless, LouLou

P.S. No one wants to play Poker with me! Wonder why?