My H was heavily viewing internet porn for about a year post A although he claims and I believe no chat room or contact or even payment. I confronted him last summer and he promised to stop. He seemed to stop. (I don't check him all the time).

Tonight I just saw on his computer that he visited one site. (in a time frame of about 3-4 weeks). Sounds weird but I am turned off that he even went to one site.

Am I being naive or unrealistic? I know what Dr. Phil says. But to the guys on this site- I'm curious- what is your take on it?

Do you NEVER look at Internet Porn? Just plain not interested?

Do you check it out once in a while, out of boredom, curiousity?

Do you feel like it's okay to pop in on an occasional basis?

What is your sense of what guys out there think is acceptable?

If you do view IP, would you feel comfortable telling others you do so- male friends or coworkers or your wife?

<small>[ March 03, 2003, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

I am sorry to hear that your H is back looking at porn. First off, I will ask the obvious questions, are you sure he is looking at it? Could it have been spam email that was sent to him? Did he have a friend he was showing it to?

I am sorry for the questions, but I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

For me, in my case. No I don't look at porn. The pictures are crappy quality and the stuff sucks. I never have been in to internet porn, for me it is the videos. OK sorry, but my WW left me four months ago and I AM a guy with needs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Sorry, you asked so I will answer honestly.

I have looked at it before just to see what the hype was about but that is it. Again waste of time in my opinion.

Do I feel it is OK? Personally, no. But if you are in a relationship and your spouse is OK with it than why not? I don't feel that there is room for porn in a M, again my opinion. Judging by your post, you agree with that. That means it is not OK and he should respect your feelings about that.

Every guy is different. I don't feel that I can generalize for all males. Again if BOTH spouses think porn is OK than why not? I feel it is wrong and does not belong in a M.

I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing my porn habits with friends. My WW had porn that we watched together so we both knew about it. I feel that the porn is what partially ruined our M so that is why my feelings have changed regarding it. My next R I hope will be porn free. But again, I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing that with anyone other than my W (or everyone here at MB). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I don't know if that helps or not. Again it is JMHO.

STTSI

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by espoir:
<strong>Do you NEVER look at Internet Porn? Just plain not interested?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never. Not the least bit interested.

What I've seen on the net I've stumbled across looking for other things. It is simply not appealing to me whatsoever. That said, I do admit to having had a subscription to Playboy magazine many years ago and - get this! - just last evening I paused in front of the magazine rack in the grocery store to admire the cover on the Sports Illustrated swim suit issue. (Can't wait for the next issue of National Geographic to show up in my mailbox!)

Somewhere between that and internet porn is the fuzzy line for me, I guess. What exactly IS the difference between erotica and porn? Like someone once said, we know it when we see it.

WAT raises an interesting point about porn vs. erotica. Can we pin down the difference? Is it related to artistic quality or exploitation? The activity or participants portrayed? Whether it's sold in a "respectable" store? Does the media - video, pictures, or text - matter? Do mainstream television and popular fiction cross the line?

Does the difference between porn and erotic even matter to a marriage?

Just to toss out a thought, I think the two main criteria for porn/erotica being a problem are:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whether it constitutes a distraction to the relationship with your spouse.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whether criminal activity is protrayed, or was involved in its production.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that "erotica" could violate either of these, especially the first.

Hmmm ... the debate rages on. The Supreme Court can't even define pornography or obsenity very well, unless, of course, you consider the LAPS test to be a highly developed definition.

My two pennies ... I think that nude or sexual images/video of adults CAN be a healthy part of a marriage or relationship, whether viewed by one or both. Frankly, it's not unnatural for someone to like the way a member of the opposite sex (or same sex, as the case may be) looks without clothes. Being married doesn't change that. Do I like to look at images of women without clothes? Some of them, yes. Others, no? I like them to be far less sexually explicit ... form over function, if you will. More often than not, the women look like my wife from the neck down. I digress.

Maybe the conversations you and your husband should be having focus less on your request for him to stop looking at this stuff and more on why he can't honor your request (assuming you haven't already). Perhaps his attraction isn't healthy. Then again, I'm no expert.

Hi Espoir,

I'm glad that I can chip in my 20pence worth for a change!

Do you NEVER look at Internet Porn? Just plain not interested?

>> guilty.

Do you check it out once in a while, out of boredom, curiousity?

>> curiosity, ersatz-excitement

Do you feel like it's okay to pop in on an occasional basis?

>> yes. having said that, it depends on what. from soft to truly disgusting, there's pretty much everything. and I do draw a line.

If you do view IP, would you feel comfortable telling others you do so- male friends or coworkers or your wife?

>> I'd probably feel slightly embarrassed to tell others. however, I'd like to confide in my wife so she can have a look at it and we can discuss this openly, what stimulates and why, and why not, something which is off topic at the moment of course.

I do think there's an addictive aspect to it, which could get out of control. I believe there's definately a line somewhere which, when crossed, becomes dangerous to a relationship.

<small>[ March 04, 2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

hmmmm alot of food for thought here. Men definitely seem to have a different attitude about it (hey someone has to be looking at those sites, right?)

I should say, I felt differently about porn usage before the A. I kind of knew my H checked it out from time to time, but since he travelled alot, I preferred that he do that, than find a flesh and blood playmate.

However, he continued the habit post A when he had stopped travelling. We were having a difficult year and when I did find out, he was very good about promising to stop.

Indeed he has stopped. In fact, I confronted him about what I found. And it is very weird. He claims complete confusion and bafflement. Says he has not gone to any of these sites. He usually uses Netscape as a browser. By chance I went on IE and checked the history. It showed light usage on the whole-a few sites visited, some innocuous sites, and under week 2 (beginning 2/18) and 3 (beginning 2/24/03) there were a total of 4 sites.

My H is so sincere and does not appear to be lying. I do want to believe him. If he is lying that would be more upsetting than if he just fessed up and we talked about the lapse. I also can't even figure out how to connect with this particular browser since he usually uses netscape and I don't know that he knows either.

Still, am I an idiot for believing him? Do any of you computer savvy people have a clue? Could it be an error somehow?

The biggest problem with him viewing IP for me, is that part of what I would find exciting is the feeling of romance and passion between us. This feeling has been drained over the years due to kids, financial and work stresses, time constraints etc. The worst thing about the A was seeing him give that to someone else after I had gone without for so long. My fantasy lover would long for me, romance me, adore me and make love to me. I do believe my H wants to be that man. But for me, if he is viewing hardcore sexual images in his spare time, it destroys my ability to see him in that role. And that is not good for me in terms of how I respond to him as a lover.

As you can tell men's opinions on this subject vary from person to person. As far as your situation goes, following POJA if you don't like IP than he shouldn't look at it. Right?

Some people feel it is OK to view while in a M, if that works for them, fine. Obviously you are not OK with that and he should respect your feelings. You said he looked at it while traveling, is he addicted to it? Does he look at it as a sexual release or just for fun?

Anyway, you mentioned Netscape so I assume you have a Mac, is that correct? I am a PC guy but I do have Mac friends I could talk to for you.

STTSI

no my H has a PC. But he downloaded Netscape and uses it to browse. The Internet Explorer is on his computer as a matter of course. I don't believe he uses it much, but did find these few sites. It's weird how strongly he denies it, so I'm wondering if there could be some kind of error????

espoir, please tell me again what you found that makes you think he is surfing IP. Could it have been spam mail that sent him to that site?

I gotta run but I will be back tonight.

STTSI

Denial is something that addicts are VERY good at. He knows your boundaries on IP, and how it makes you feel. There's NO WAY he's going to fess up to it. Sheesh! Most addicts would still deny it if you caught them while they were viewing it, and their hand was on the mouse! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This is a VERY touchy subject for me, b/c of my H's addiction to porn. So anytime I read about it with someone else, my mindset is to automatically assume that sexual addiction is present. This may NOT be the case for you and your H. Your own gut feelings are where the truth lies. Believe in them, and trust them. They're there for a reason.

I too, USED to think that porn had it's place in a M only if BOTH partners agreed to its use, and (preferably) used it together. You see, I wanted to share in this with my H, but he wouldn't allow it. I now know, that this is very typical addict behaviour.... where he feels the need to keep it a "secret", b/c he is truly ashamed by his actions.

I also know, that when he told me (too many times to count) that he was sorry, and / or he didn't know how it got there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , I REALLY WANTED TO BELIEVE HIM!!! I wanted it so badly, that I did choose to believe him, and by doing that, all I did was enable his behaviours, and buried my authentic (happy) self. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Karen

I say bullsh*t on the "erotica" vs. "porn" issue. The point is: it's substituting an imaginary function for a real one. Sex is supposed to take place between real people, with real saliva. It's not a spectator sport. The porn we are tolerating today would have been extremely depraved in every culture, in just about every period of history. We're starting to think it's normal.

Same problem with porn in this household -- husband was into online porn for a year before the affair happened. I maintain it was substituting one addiction for another. (I offered to "join him" in porn -- unwise, I later learned -- but it turned out that the whole point of the porn was to close me out, to avoid dealing with a real person, to separate sex from emotion. And no, I'm not the ***** lady from hell, but a loving wife who was trying to reach him.)

We use "CharacterLink" (another filter failed). I said end the porn or I walk. It made me feel rejected and unwanted.

Of course, so has the affair that followed. But he says there is no contact, and in a weird way we are trying to work things out. Plan A in effect. Advice welcome.

Hi espoir,

I have done searches for other things and had porn come up for some of the links. Once when my wife was sitting in my office waiting for me to take her home. I showed her how easy it is to get something by accident, and she suggested we get a filter for home use, which we did.

I have seen many become addicted to porn just like those addicted to alcohol or tobacco. As far as I am concerned it should be treated as an addiction. He probably does love you but he has a hard time escaping from the pull. Like an alcoholic he regrets it when not drinking but can't seem to stay away. Most won't admit they have a problem.

My belief is that this is one of the things that causes problems in marriage. If it bothers you then he shouldn't be doing it, but he appears to be doing it anyway. I have seen many here on these boards say that at first they supported their H because they couldn't see any harm but they came to resent it and it caused havoc with the relationship. I don't see anything that causes this kind of trouble between H and W to be innocent.

So what are your feelings about it? What do you want to do now? Are you still trying to figure out if it was an accident or if he did it on purpose?

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>I say bullsh*t on the "erotica" vs. "porn" issue. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, so please tell me what I'm supposed to think. Is the SI swimsuit issue porn?

WAT

Worthatry,

Use common sense, for pity sake! In my experience, "erotica" is the fancy word people use to justify a porn habit, and so spend hours in debate while avoiding the obvious. (And no, I'm not talking about the temple friezes of India, or tantra...I think you know what I mean!)

If you've watched a spouse turning into a zombie in front of the computer screen while close-ups of genital organs penetrating each other, or women with sperm dripping from their chins -- while you are waiting in bed, you certainly wouldn't argue my point!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>I think you know what I mean!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When someone makes over generalizations, we cannot tell what they mean. I was responding to what you said - an emotional over generalization.

You missed my point and took the bait.

To varying degrees for different people, erotica and porn are not the same. One person's ceiling is another person's floor. What is important or intolerable to you may not be to the next person.

One of the principles to be learned here is that one person's view of the world may not be another's.

Welcome. And use some common sense.

WAT

WAT: You wrote "When someone makes over generalizations, we cannot tell what they mean"

please note that *all* generalisations are bad.

:-)

Hey thanks for everyone's viewpoints. It's really interesting to see POV from the other half.

Still trying to save it- I'm not sure how the sites got on the computer, but I don't think it's worth making a big deal out of it even if my H went there. I know he has dramatically decreased his usage and I know he wants to work on our M and improve it. I think that is enough for me right now. I have to work on my own tendency to constantly relive his infidelity and IP usage. Blowing this incident up will not help me in that goal, I've decided. If he did sneak over there, he knows I'm watching and that I don't like it!

Erotica vs. porn- to me there's a difference. to me the SI swimsuit issue is something I might look at and enjoy in terms of fashion, style, and simple admiration of beautiful humans. I can admire a good looking guy from that point of view too. Porn crosses those lines. At this point, Playboy seems ridiculously oldfashioned- the internet porn is graphic shots of genitals and sexual actions. I doubt my H would like it if he thought that in private I liked to check out other men's genitals penetrating other woman's genitals. When I put it to him that way, he started to get it.

Dog gone DP! not a double play, either! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Shakespeare ]</small>

espoir-

Not to belabor this issue as you have plenty of responses to ponder, but I can't help but to share an anti porn site I have found extremely helpful: porn-free.org!

You and your H will find this site to be very enlightening as I have! Unfortunatley, my XW didn't care to view its' content as she had her own issues to contend with!

This site has carried me out of the depths of a spiralling lifestyle I care not to ever engage in again! I have been porn free for nearly 6 mos.!!

Praise the Lord!

Godspeed
S