Hi unsure...

How are you?

Did you and your H ever "talk?"

My WW wants to "talk" this weekend.

She says she is not necessarily wanting to talk about a divorce but she says she knows we can't keep going the way we are...ain't that the truth?

Over the last week or so I have boxed up some of her things and told her I had been doing that today.

I think she was bit surprised by that. She said if I feel better doing that to go ahead and do it but she is not looking to pack up any of her things when we get together this weekend.

She says she wants to see if there is anything left to salvage of our relationship and how we could possibly do that.

I told her basically that I must think it's possible and that it is worth salvaging after sticking with this for two years....

But I also told her for the umpteenth time that no matter what, if there is something worth salvaging here I can't do it alone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

And I told her that whatever happens the decision will be hard. And if we were ever to try to put this back together it would be a lot of hard work...I am willing...but I don't know about her.

Anyway...I hope you are well and doing OK..

E

bump^^

Hi Elad -- I've been swamped at work and not posting or reading much.

First you...I don't know what to say about what your WW is saying to you now about wanting to talk and seeing if there is anything left to salvage. On the one hand, I think she knows already that there is something left to salvage or she would have asked or filed for a divorce.
On the other hand, it may be a way to manipulate (subconsciously or consciously) to get you to hold out longer while she lingers in her confusion.

I am dealing with exactly the same from WH. He wants to talk, says he knows he needs to talk, but cannot bring himself to actually do it. I guess I am wishfully thinking that means there may be a chance. The therapists words to me that this is manipulative behavior are hard to erase completely. There is likely truth to both scenarios.

I know you still have love for your WW, but I have to ask whether you have at the same time been thinking about a different life. I have been plagued the last two weeks with thoughts about how much I have learned and the love I have to offer and share and how it is all wasted waiting for someone that really doesn't seem to want to help himself out of the abyss.

I think your packing up some of her things is a sign to you that you are moving in a direction of a life without her. That's not to say you don't still have love for her or don't want to try, but is probably symbolic of a shift inside you. I've had the same thoughts lately about putting away the many photos of the happy times with WH and asking whether he would like to come pick up some of his family pieces.

What do you imagine for your future? Do you find that this has changed somewhat? Do you feel exhausted by the thought of continuing in this limbo?

I truly wish I had more than questions for you and knew what you should say or do this weekend. I think the only thing you can do is to listen to what she says and tell her you still have love for her, but that you feel as if you are moving forward without her because she still appears to want to live in a world without you.

I guess today may not be a great day for me to contemplate any advice. Some morning when I wake up to clear blue sky and the rose hues of sunrise I think to myself that life is too short to continue to waste my life waiting for a man that is somehow comfortable in a life of pain and misery.

Elad, no matter what she says to you this weekend, you know you have done everything with a patience and grace that most men don't have in a situation like this. Maybe she'll have an epiphanal experience and see it for herself. That would be my hope.

Hi unsure...

Glad to hear you are doing OK.

Work can be a nice distraction, right?

All of what you wrote is a pretty much along the lines of what I have been thinking. It's like being at a crossroads and asking do I go left or do I go right and finally deciding that any decision is better than standing in the middle of the road.

What do I imagine for my future?

You know right now I feel like the Tom Hanks character at the end of the movie Cast Away...he is standing in the crossroads and contemplating which way to go...and each road has a different outcome, but yet they all seem appealing because of the unknown and the possible excitement each journey could provide. It's all up to him to decide...He knows he has to choose but he has no idea whether one will even be better than the other but the possibility exists that each will be good in their own way no matter what he decides....fade to black....roll credits.

I guess for my future I would again like to have a committed relationship...whether with my WW if that's possible...or with someone else at some future point. What you said about learning and love and having lots to share applies to me too.

The thing is, each of us could take all that and apply it to a rekindled relationship with our spouses that I know would be better than before but they are too blind (or fogged up) to see that.

I want to smile and mean it...I want to laugh again, I want have someone to laugh with and cry with...someone to make plans with, someone to talk with, someone who wants to share all the things a good life can offer. There are times...not often...that I get a glimpse of that future. In some ways it is scary but in some ways it is exciting to contemplate. Just the thought that some day I can lift off this yoke of bad feeling or not be followed around by a little black cloud every day...well that is very appealing...I think it will happen but like the Tom Hanks character...I just don't know how...

I certainly agree with you that this limbo world can be exchausting. There are many days that I feel I have been doing the work of two people in trying to keep this relationship together. And in many ways I feel that not only have I been doing two people's work but the other person...like some stubborn mule...has actually been pulling in the opposite direction. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

And like your WH...it seems like my WW has become comfortable in a life that is causing her pain and misery...why would someone want to continue like that?

I don't know what to expect from her this weekend, but there was a time when not knowing what to expect would have caused great concern and consternation for me. Right now it's more curiosity than concern and more calmness than consternation.

Am I moving on? I don't know...I do know that by beginning to pack some things of hers and by pressing for some answers from her is movement of some sort and perhaps that's all I can expect right now...perhaps that's all I am ready for at the moment.

As for any epiphany...well I have hoped for that for a long time but it just hasn't come.

I do think my WW...and your WH...will have some sort of light bulb moment in the future...whether either of us are around for them when that happens is a mighty good question.

Take care USH...

E

Elad -- I am wondering how your conversation went this weekend.

I finally reached my breaking point. I asked WH to file for the D this weekend. The lies have just become too much and I am exhausted and I also feel as if I cannot move forward without the D. I do still have love for him, so I suppose asking for the D is pre-mature per pure Harley principles. I don't really know what it was exactly, but I reached a point where I am tired of wondering about my future. I ache for somebody to provide me with any of my needs. I am tired of taking care of a house by myself and climbing up on the roof to remove massive amounts of snow.

I think WH will stay in this limbo forever. Somebody had to break the pattern and I knew it had to be me for my sanity. I told him simply that I would like him to go ahead and file because I deserved love and happiness as much as he does. I know he's still with OW and I just decided enough is enough.

I'm probably rambling right now, but I just did this. I feel better, but also a little sad. It's been more than 2 years of a living hell. I'd like a little sunshine and joy in my life for a change.

How are you?

Hey unsure,

I read your post and wanted to give you a big ((((((((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))))))))))).I know your feeling sad right now about the decision you've made. I also know how good it can feel too like something has been lifted off your shoulders, then I also know that the feeling can be good and really really sad several times a day. I don't know if people here will get mad at me for saying this because this is a marriage builder forum but I feel your making the right decision. 2 years is a long time and you have needs of your own.

I read you and Elad write back and forth to each other and when i read them all I can think about is How do these wonderful people remain living in an exhausting world of limbo for so long and not go insane. I admire you and Elad both and hope that I can have as much patience as you guys have given your marriages. I must say I've only been going through this for 4 months and there are times I just want to throw in the towel, and I think of both of you and so many others on this forum and keep on going.

There are two ways I wish things would go for you. One is that your WWH wakes up and realizes that this was the last chance you've given him and get real help to keep you or that he does finally get the D so that you can finally have peace of mind and let you have the chance to meet someone else that will love you and fullfill the needs you have.

Check on you later, Take care Mel

Hi unsure....

****Big Sigh*****

I am so sorry to hear about your weekend.

I realize how hard it must have been to ask your WH to file. But I also understand that if he is still with the OW, how painful that is for you and how difficult that must be. But I really understand how you feel and I hope you know that you have done all you could here...more than many people would.

Trust me when I say this: Your WH will some day realize what USH has done to try to save this marriage. I know that's not much consolation, USH, but you must know that what you have done will be realized some day.

For now, you will have to be satisfied with my (and other people's on this board) admiration for your tenacity and courage and love. Those of us here know how hard all this is.

As for Elad:

USH said: It's been more than 2 years of a living hell. I'd like a little sunshine and joy in my life for a change.

Yeah, that's a pretty apt description of my last two years, too.

My WW and I talked yesterday and the bottom line is that she said she can't see any way that we can put this back together. Now, my situation is a little different than yours in that there is no OM to muddy the waters. But still she shows no inclination of wanting to work on this.

She told me she misses me and misses talking to me (we always had great conversations and we were truly best friends) she said she loves me but she is not "in love."

Well, helloooooooo!!!!
Neither am I!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

What I told her is that I still love her, but I am not "in love" either...how could I be after two years of this? But what I also told her is that I believe that that feeling can come back if two people who love each other try to work to make that happen. That it won't happen by maintaining the distance we have between us and it won't happen like magic and it won't happen overnight.

Now, I can't guarantee it would happen but I am willing to try. She apparantly is not. It is very sad.

USH said: I ache for somebody to provide me with any of my needs.

Yeah, I sure know how that feels. Perhaps niether of us will know just how badly we have felt for the past two years until we begin having our needs met. To me it seems like two years in a very dark hole.

USH said: I am tired of taking care of a house by myself and climbing up on the roof to remove massive amounts of snow.

OK---I can really relate to this...I have not had to shovel my roof this year but have had many years when it had to be done several times. It's about the hardest physical work as you can do to take care of a house. I hope you do it a little at a time...

In your post you did not say what your WH's response was to telling him to file. Did he say he would? Was he surprised? Do you know what your next move is? For now, maybe the best thing to do for USH is just try to absorb some of this for a few days and see how you feel.

Again, I am very sorry to hear this turn of events for you.

I know you have tried very hard....

I hope you are OK this morning...I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers USH.

Take care,

E

Depressed1234 -- Thank you for your kind words and the hug. I caught up with you on your thread in just found out and will check in again there tonight. I appreciate what you've said, but I hope you don't necessarily take Elad and I as examples for yourself -- the patience part is good and the love, but I truly hope you do not have to endure two years of this for your sake the and sake of your little boy. I can say that I have no regrets (well, at least not many about how I've handled my life since discovery of the affair).

Elad -- I really am ok. I didn't do well tonight when I got back from my run and turned on some tv program showing a wedding (still a big trigger for me), but then my best friend from all the way back in the 6th grade called me to see how I was doing. We've stayed very close all these years and talk often.

How did this happen? WH sent an email saying his life is twisted and dark and he knows he must talk to me, but can only do it x weekend because y weekend he'll be out of town doing z. Something in me snapped. First, I thought, he makes it sounds as if it's some kind of necessary, but unpleasant fact of life akin to visiting the dentist to come talk to me. I think what really did it though is that the weekend he says he cannot talk I happen to know is OW's birthday and I also happen to know that for the last two years they have gone away under some false pretense that weekend. The story he concocted this time was just ridiculous.

I waited until the end of the day and responded that while I appreciated he wanted to talk, if he was still seeing OW, then I did not see any real value for me in the discussion. If he was still chosing to be in this relationship in any form, then I would like him to go ahead and put together a proposal and file for a D.

No response. I emailed again a few days later and told him that I hoped he would do the right thing and file because he was keeping my life in a state of purgatory and I wanted love and happiness too. Go ahead and file. No response.

I realized that I really have put much of my life on hold. Yes, I've made changes. Yes, I'm doing many things I have not done for a long time that I enjoy (still have to take up the piano again and learn to scuba dive). But, I have been waiting for something to happen whether I was fully cognizant of it or not.

I still love my WH, but I no longer like who he has become. The selfishness of the whole past two years came rushing to the surface for me last week. I don't care if he has been abducted by aliens or smitten by the charms of some other woman, his actions lately have been incredibly selfish. That's not love. I don't know what it is, but it's not love. Love is giving and taking and wanting to do for others out of love. I feel like those withered monkeys in the lab experiments from the college text books that just keep coming back for more pain because they don't know anything else.

Back to you. It must be incredibly difficult to hear this yet again from WW. Do you have the impression she has any plans for how she is going to change her life (in any direction)? To some extent I can empathize with both WW and my WH because I was afraid to make a choice too. It is so hard when you do still see glimpses of the friendship,love and affection that was once there. It is hard to know what is the right choice and when to make that choice. Although, I also believe we're given fewer choices than the WW/WH because it is not our choice to chose the marriage at this point.

You mentioned several times that your WW was seeing an IC. Have you ever been to joint counseling or is that something she would agree to do?

I so much appreciate your kind words. I hope that something changes for you soon. The yoke hasn't quite lifted for me, but I do feel some relief from the last few days. A small part of me has some hope that this will jolt him, but I certainly am not counting on it. I did something else that is sure to upset him, but I was at the point that I thought I had nothing else to lose. I sent a letter to his parents telling them about the affair. This is surely a huge LB, but I feel as if I have been a part of the lie to them too.

Sorry to be so focused on me right now. I'm just processing all that has happened the past few days. It is all so surreal and I can't quite believe I communicated what I communicated, but I don't have a regret.

Please post how you are feeling and doing and I will try and be less focused on my own situation.

Hi unsure&#8230;

Glad to hear you are doing OK&#8230;those triggers will come and go. It was good timing that your friend called to help you put it out of your mind.

What is interesting is that if your WH is with the OW&#8230;and apparently is making no movement to change that, he must be at least comfortable in that position. So why would he consider his life &#8220;twisted and dark?&#8221;

Is he on anti-depressants? Maybe he should be. I do know how hard it was to convince my WW to get on them, her IC and her Gyn had to talk her into it, but they helped her immensely by smoothing out her moods.

But now I wonder if the anti-deps are one reason she can&#8217;t seem to find the &#8220;feelings&#8221; she is looking for. I don&#8217;t know&#8230;

In terms of my WW wanting to talk to or see me, well I have the same feeling you do about your WH that it seems like it is some great effort made with real reluctance&#8230;akin to that &#8220;trip to the dentist.&#8221; Before all of this we talked, and e-mailed throughout the day and she couldn&#8217;t wait to get home at the end of the day to talk to me&#8230;how much life has changed.

Regarding our seeing a counselor. When she came home in August 2001 after our first separation in all this, we began seeing her IC together to get us on some track to recovery. At some point, and I think it coincided with her getting back in touch with the OM, she just told the IC that her heart wasn&#8217;t in it (recovery) and that we should stop joint counseling. We did and I went to a few more sessions on my own with the IC but she (the IC) felt that because my WW was her client that she could not see both of us. So I stopped going. My WW has been seeing the same IC for nearly two years now. It wasn't long after she said her "heart wasn't in it" that she found an apartment an dmioved out on New Year's Eve 2001. She has been gone ever since.

As you said about your WH, I do love her but I don&#8217;t necessarily like the person she has become. And you are right, it is very selfish behavior. It is so opposite of the person I married that I really am beginning to believe in the alien theory. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Seriously!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

It&#8217;s not just me either, I know so many people are just amazed at what has happened to us. I know it is said a lot here but we were one of those couples that everyone said would be the LAST one to have these problems. ****Big Sigh****

The glimpses you mentioned are getting fewer and fewer and harder to see as time goes on. It is very sad.

It was interesting that you wrote to your in-laws about what is going on. While you are right, it probably will be a huge LB for your WH&#8230;it was the right thing to do. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if they already had an inkling about what was going on.

No need to apologize for being focused on USH&#8230;in fact that&#8217;s where your focus needs to be. Keep doing stuff for you&#8230;.

I am not sure of my next move. My WW&#8217;s birthday is this week so I need to get past that. Birthdays, anniversaries etc were always such wonderful occasions for us because we both went out of our way to make them very special and I loved being able to surprise my WW with a gift that she would never give herself and that was truly special to her. This will be her third birthday in all of this that that won&#8217;t happen.

I guess I am processing a lot of this too. I must be because I haven&#8217;t slept very well since we &#8220;talked&#8221; on Sunday. It&#8217;s all part of this but I need to figure out how best to remove myself from the roller coaster. I have feeling the best way to do that is the last thing I want to do in this life and that is what makes me saddest of all.

I am glad to hear you are doing OK...take care USH

E

Elad -- Checking in to see how you are doing, especially with your wife's birthday this week.

I am in a strange place mentally. I think partially due to the war we are about to enter. I want to be supportive of our president and our military, but the purpose of attacking a nation for the first time in our history unprovoked (ok, saddam IS provacative, but I'm still not convinced he is an imminent threat to our health, safety and security any more than any other insane despot). It just seems as if everything is spiraling out of control. I apologize for inserting my thoughts about war into this thread, but this all weighs so heavily on my mind.

I am still in that strange limbo, although WH has now said unequivocally he wants the divorce. At the same time, he says he would like to discuss all of this so that I can get some closure. I feel as if this is manipulative behavior as this is what I wanted all along and he was incapable of talking about any of this.

I am now officially out of plan B and have told WH that he can proceed with a divorce as I had tried for more than a year to leave the door open and provide some hope. The bottom line is that WH does not want to try. I don't know whether this is due to the fact that he cannot figure out how to try, believes it is easier to run away/just start a new life, or he just plain does not believe our marriage is worth saving. Probably all of the above. He has said that he is still seeing OW, but does not think he can commit to a long term relationship with her/doesn't know what he wants.

WH came over the other day to do some yardwork. It was reasonably pleasant, but a bit awkward as it's been several months since I spent any time with him. As he was leaving, he asked for some of the good cognac and I put some in a jar for him. He then asked whether he'd left any other clothing here (he hasn't and took it all a long time ago) as he felt he was still in two places. I started to cry. I couldn't help myself. He said that maybe it was bad for me to see him because it obviously made me feel badly whenever I saw him.

I don't know what I feel. Part of me looks at him and knows it is the right thing to move forward because he is stuck somewhere strange that is not positive and it sucks the life out of me. Part of me looks at him and still has some love for this man and all the good times we had and kind things he did for me for so many years. Mostly just sadness.

I won't file, but I also wonder if he will. I think I'll give myself a deadline that if he has not filed by May 1, then I will proceed. I plan to send an email later this week suggesting that we do find another counselor to discuss how we dissolve our marriage and help me understand how we got to the point he wanted out. I think I already understand that, but I can probably learn something.

How are you feeling/doing? Any further discussions with WW?

Hi unsure&#8230;.

Things here are a bit strange, maybe&#8230;I&#8217;m not sure. In all of it though I am doing OK. Probably a little better than I have in the more recent past.

I am sorry to hear your H has now indicated he is more strongly headed toward divorce. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I think his request to discuss all of this may be a way of being manipulative as you suggest or, more likely, a way for him to try to feel better about this.

I remember when my first wife and I divorced and I know at the time that I wanted to &#8220;talk&#8221; to her but she just did not want to talk once we began heading down the divorce road. I think my willingness to talk was more for my benefit to feel better about keeping the lines of communication open. Then the unfair thing would have been after talking and maybe making her feel a little better I would still have walked away. Me feeling OK &#8216;cause we had &#8220;talked&#8221; but her probably feeling bad because the &#8220;talk&#8221; had resolved or changed nothing. I don&#8217;t know if that makes sense or not but what I am saying is don&#8217;t decide to do this unless USH really wants to.

USH: The bottom line is that WH does not want to try. I don't know whether this is due to the fact that he cannot figure out how to try, believes it is easier to run away/just start a new life, or he just plain does not believe our marriage is worth saving.

This is where my WW and I have been for so long that I have forgotten how long it has been&#8230;but a looooooong time. I don&#8217;t know the &#8220;why&#8221; of it either. Maybe she doesn&#8217;t even know the why and perhaps that applies to your H, too. I do think they look at coming back or &#8220;trying&#8221; as a lot of work and that they may not feel they are capable and are just willing to walk away. The one thing different in all of this for you and I is that your WH is still involved with the OW and that adds a whole different dynamic for you, unfortunately.

USH: Part of me looks at him and knows it is the right thing to move forward because he is stuck somewhere strange that is not positive and it sucks the life out of me. Part of me looks at him and still has some love for this man and all the good times we had and kind things he did for me for so many years. Mostly just sadness.

Yes, the sadness can be all-consuming at times. In large part for me because I still struggle with the why. Perhaps I will never have a sure answer for that. But you are right---it does suck the life out of you.

As for my situation. Well, we survived my WW&#8217;s birthday. I dropped off a gift in her car at work on Friday. It was a really nice gift&#8230; <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have always been a pretty good gift buyer&#8230; <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> She called and thanked me and that was pretty much that.

I did not hear from her all weekend then she called Monday to talk&#8230;which we did a little (there&#8217;s that &#8220;talking&#8221; thing).

Yesterday was a bit interesting. But a little background first. All of this kind of began after she was passed over for a promotion at work a little more than two years ago. She was devastated when she didn&#8217;t get the job and no matter what I tried or said it couldn&#8217;t make her feel better about herself.

Enter OM: Rich, high status, high profile, tells her how wonderful she is and how smart and pretty etc. (All stuff I was telling her&#8230;but it was just good ole dependable Elad&#8230;not some exciting OM). She told me at the time: &#8220;He makes me feel good about myself.&#8221; <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Anyway, she called yesterday to tell me she was promoted at work (actually I knew this was coming but she called to say it was official) and that she now had the job she had wanted. I told her I was happy for her and congratulated her and we talked about a few things. As we were signing off she asked if she was wearing me out&#8230;I said yeah she probably was.

She called back about 15 minutes later and apologized. She said she didn&#8217;t want to wear me out/down and that she had been &#8220;thinking about some stuff .&#8221; She said she had wanted the promotion she had finally gotten for such a long time but now that she had it she said it left her &#8220;hollow&#8221; (her words). She said she wanted this job but she felt badly that she didn&#8217;t have me to share it with. I really didn&#8217;t say anything. Ultimatley she ended up saying for me not to make much of what she was saying. Basically we have been down this road before when she has gotten lonely so I will not make much out of it&#8230;it was just interesting and maybe just a small glimpse of fog lifting for a brief moment. Most likely nothing more.

In the meantime I am doing stuff for myself. I have made plans to go away for a weekend (next weekend) to visit a friend I have become much closer to in all of this over the past two years. I am looking forward to our visit and hopefully having some fun. I need a break.

Sorry to babble on and on here but I think it was good for me to write some things down. I appreciate your interest and hope you are doing OK.

Hang in there USH&#8230;it seems like you are still doing good. Being sad part of the time is all part of this so don&#8217;t feel badly about that. It&#8217;s part of the grieving process unfortunately and it all has to be experienced no matter what happens.

Take care

E

Elad -- A quick note to say have a great time on your weekend away/visit. You certainly deserve it.

I find it interesting that your WW described feeling hollow in getting the promotion and not really being able to share it with you. It's those kind of statements that lead us to think there is hope.

How are you feeling this week? Any further communication from WW?

I believe my WH is going to Mexico next week with OW. He was acting strangely and we had to communicate on our house refinance and taxes, so he's called every day for the past two weeks about this and that. Last night he mentioned that he couldn't find his passport and he might be taking a last minute trip to Mexico next week. Hmm..I know it's OW's birthday next week. Strange coincidence I think not. In the past, this would have made me absolutely nuts, but last night I thought, can't control it and went to bed and actually slept.

I'm headed off to ski this weekend with six other women. We will ski in 6 miles to a hut outside of Aspen. I haven't done one of these trips without WH before, but I think I can still strap on a 40 lb. backpack and go for it.

I really hope you have a great weekend.

Hi USH,
Enjoy the trip. Great how you handled the 'Mexico' situation! Nevertheless, he still wants you to be around, for calls etc etc. Taking a step back, how do you envisage a future relationship with him, if current behaviour continues?
Nick

hi unsure

I hope you had a good ski trip.

My weekend getaway fell apart.

Early last week my WW called to say her dad was getting worse and she was headed to AZ to spend some time with him and see about getting him home.

As it turned out she came back a few days later. Her dad was as stable as possible and there wasn't much she could do. Other relatives were there to help so she returned home.

The next day she called to tell me her uncle (FIL's brother) had had a sudden heart attack and died. As it happened I had decided not to go away when things didn't look good for her dad and it turned out to be a good decision.

Anyway...I still need a getaway but it will have to wait.

As for she and I---well I think (and I never thought I would say this) that my love bank is drained. There just doesn't seem to be anything left.

I have told her I am here for her if she needs me, and I will be in case her dad dies, which is really just a matter of time. But beyond that I just don't have anything anymore. That is really sad for me to admit but that's how I feel right now.

Sorry about your WH and the Mexico trip. I think you handled it as best as you could...

Take care USH...stay strong

E

Nick - As it turns out, WH is not going to Mexico and asked whether we could get together this weekend to meet with an engineer and contractor regarding our house foundation (we live in a house built in 1898 which is very old here/not by european standards and has a rubble foundation that is starting to go). I haven't responded yet. I think things are not going well with OW, but WH is still depressed and we're still moving forward with getting our house ready to sell. WH has suggested that I can stay in it for a year or so if we refinance and I can pick up most of the mortgage. He needs the equity so that he can buy something, but understands that I would like to stay in the house as long as possible.

Elad - I am sorry that you did not get to take off on your weekend getaway, but I am sure your WW appreciated that you were around.

It is an empty and surreal feeling to feel as if you've lost your love for somebody that you've loved for so long. It is very gallant of you to be willing to be there for her right now with everything she's put you through.

I'm not sure what I feel. I still get sad, but I cannot tell if it is because I am grieving the loss of WH or the loss of marriage and what I thought my life would be or whether it's simply some type of panic about the change in my lifestyle that is about to ensue.

The split will have a lot of financial implications for me such as selling the house. I would trade all of that to have had the chance to try again with WH, but that is not to be. I'm going to be ok financially and I feel as if I'm whining when I look at others situations.

I asked WH when we discussed the timing of the house sale whether he had thought at all about what was going to happen to me/what my life would be like when he started this whole mess almost two years ago. His response was "No, to be honest, I didn't think about anyone but myself and I was just selfish." At least he admits that. Our conversations aren't acrimonious, but I feel dead when I talk to him.

At some point, we do have to fully realize that sometimes people will not do what they need to do to save themselves and make their lives more fulfilling and happy.

I think we ought to plan an MBer Las Vegas trip. After my grueling ski trip last weekend, I need a massage and some stiff drinks. The ski up was by far the most physically demanding thing I have ever done. The trip was uphill 6 miles on very steep terrain. By the last mile it was all I could do to put one foot in front of the other and some of the women were crying. Fortunately the hut was located in a breathtakingly beautiful location and the company was terrific. The ski out was very fast, but unfortunately one of the women fell and hit her head on a rock. Upon seeing the blood, my friend and I tried to keep my best calm voice and get her heavy pack and skis off, clean the wound, and get some ice on it. She was ultimately ok, but it was definitely scary at first.

I'm no outdoor mountaineering queen, but it felt really great to do this trip without WH and prove to myself that I have the physical and mental capacity to get through a trip like that. No more grueling trips like that for while though. I ain't 25 anymore and the recovery time is longer.

Elad. I know what a weird time it is to feel as if your love bank is drained. Sad, but also somewhat freeing. Do something good for yourself. What do you like to do that you haven't done in a while?

Hi unsure&#8230;

It has been a heck of a week.

WW&#8217;s father died Sunday night after a long, tough battle with cancer. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> It was very difficult to watch the final days but I did my best.

Basically since his return from AZ a week ago, I spent nearly all my free time either at the hospital or at their home trying to be supportive of the family and my WW and trying to help where I could.

I hadn&#8217;t planned on being very hands on but that changed as things needed to be done. He was basically comatose on his last couple of days so things needed to be done like change him, change the bedding etc. I am no nurse or health care worker but I did what I could to help in all of that. Very difficult but it needed to be done.

At any rate he is now at peace and I have been working with the family to help with the arrangements. My WW asked me to write his obituary, which I did, and we are meeting with the funeral home people this morning.

It was a long week last week and this one will also be long and difficult. My FIL was relatively young and well known and loved by many here so I am expecting a large family and friends contingent to descend on the family.

******Big Sigh******* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am not sure how I feel. I loved my father-in-law and I love my WW&#8217;s family and while this past week has been such a blur to think about things, I think it finally hit me yesterday that I am not only losing a wife&#8230;but this may be the last time I spend any significant time with her family. That revelation has been very difficult for me. I told that to my WW yesterday and she said: nothing&#8230;not a single word.

We spent a lot of time together in the last week. Nearly 24 hours a day, and while I am pretty sure she appreciates that I was there, and appreciates the help, there is still this wall between us and when I mentioned yesterday that we are likely to be divorced soon, she didn&#8217;t disagree.

So I am going to try to get through the remainder of the week and do the best I can to be supportive of her and the family, but beyond that, well, I don&#8217;t know&#8230;

I think a MBer Las Vegas vacation is a great idea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I am sure there are plenty here who could use lots of R&R. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am glad to hear your ski trip, though grueling&#8230;was a success for you. It&#8217;s nice to show ourselves just what we can do on our own.

I hope things are going OK for you. Is there anything new with your WH?

I do continue to feel like I have a drained love bank&#8230;as for what I like to do and haven&#8217;t done in a while: travel.

I have not really traveled a lot since all this began and my WW and I used to travel a lot. What I really could use is a trip to the islands&#8230;a little tropical sun, some steel band music and some ice cold attitude adjustment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> All, of course, while being waited on hand and foot by some lovely island girl&#8230; <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ahhhhh&#8230;a guy can dream, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take care unsure&#8230;

E

Elad --

I was sorry to hear about your WW's father. Watching someone die of cancer is a very difficult experience for all. I am sure everyone in her family is appreciative of your being there in mind and spirit to help them through this time.

Your description of the wall between you, despite the fact that you spent 24 hours a day together during this obviously painful time, is an indicator to me that WW just doesn't want to experience the pain and doesn't want to open that door. I think she knows what she is losing (a caring soul who was there for her unselfishly) and she may be so consumed with her own guilt and pain that she cannot acknowledge and cannot embrace -- the acknowledgment that is so necessary to reconnecting. She is probably very scared, but cannot see a path up or out.

My WH once described it to me as a recognition that what he had done was wrong and that he can't forgive himself and that it was uncomfortable to be near me because I was a reminder of all that. It makes no sense, but I think that is the reality for some of these WS. They cannot let you back in because they view it as easier to keep hiding.

It is hard to come to your own realization that you are also losing the family. I hope, in your case, that you aren't truly losing them. In my case, WH's sister and my sister-in-law (his brother's wife) stay in contact with me. His parents have been perfectly awful and sent me a very tersely worded note asking me to "be fair and equitable should a divorce be imminent". I really took issue with that because I have been nothing but fair and equitable and certainly don't intend to be otherwise. While it's true that you probably won't be spending time together as a family, do you think you'll stay in touch with anyone from the family?

When this week is over, you really do need to do something for you. Travel is the main thing I've done for myself over the past year with friends when I really needed a break from MBing, etc. I don't have any great trips planned yet for this spring and summer, but will probably get in a Vegas trip in June. There are a few places I would really like to visit, but need to work out finances and logistics so it may be a while -- New Zealand and Alaska. I would also like to return to Kenya at some point. I worked there when I was right out of college and I think going back to the game reserve where I worked, Mount Kenya, and the incredible beaches of Lamu (most people don't know about the beaches there in the Indian Ocean -- absolutely calm and beautiful)would be good for my soul. But, right now I've got a beer budget for my champagne tastes -- actually not so much champagne taste, it's more the frequency with which I want to travel than the actual style of travel. I did set up a small account that I'm adding to once a month to save for a dream trip.

The islands sound pretty good right now. It snowed again last night and I need to get in the car and get over the mountains for a meeting tomorrow morning.

I'll be sending good thoughts your way this week. I will be gone at meetings until Thursday afternoon.

Hi unsure&#8230;

Thank you so much for your kind words and thoughts.

USH: I think she knows what she is losing (a caring soul who was there for her unselfishly) and she may be so consumed with her own guilt and pain that she cannot acknowledge and cannot embrace -- the acknowledgment that is so necessary to reconnecting. She is probably very scared, but cannot see a path up or out.

This is something I have thought about and there is no question that in our relationship she has been very selfish over the past two years. She may not be able to acknowledge that. And, as your WH said, there is the guilt and not being able to forgive himself, hence it is easier to not be around you or for my WW not to be around me.

Do you think that at some point in their lives they will acknowledge what they have done and realize that perhaps it was a huge mistake not to try to recover this relationship?

I have a friend who I confide in and she told me that she believes that my WW is at a point where she knows what she can and cannot give to our relationship and she is at a point where she knows she has no more to give&#8230;that it just is not in her. That makes some sense to me and perhaps that is why she is able to go just so far and no further. I just wonder if she will think at some time that she should have pushed herself&#8230;that perhaps I (and our relationship) was too valuable not to do all she could to preserve. I don&#8217;t know&#8230;

I am sorry to hear your WHs parents were so, well, nasty. But I think it is kind of normal to defend your child. My in-laws have been great to me and they are my second family&#8230;I am going through a lot of different emotions about losing them after all this is done.

I can relate to the &#8220;champagne&#8221; travel tastes on a beer travel budget. That&#8217;s why I have not had a chance top travel so much recently. Also the part I really enjoyed about travel was having someone to share it with so I have not been too keen on just up and traveling on my own.

Thanks again for your good thoughts&#8230;

Take care unsure...

E

Hi USH, I just read a bit of this thread, do I understand correctly - you H has filed for Dv? Please tell me I am wrong.

I know what you mean re the travel, right now Iwish I was anywhere else but here - very long story...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My WH once described it to me as a recognition that what he had done was wrong and that he can't forgive himself and that it was uncomfortable to be near me because I was a reminder of all that. It makes no sense, but I think that is the reality for some of these WS. They cannot let you back in because they view it as easier to keep hiding. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, I see this as still trying to put the blame on you - he can't work it out with you because you make him feel uncomfortable. Oh please! he feels uncomfortable because he knows that what he is doing is WRONG! that's why it makes no sense. Urgghhh! what's wrong with these people, why is it we have taken responsibility for all the mistakes we've made but they continue to shaft the blame. God that makes me sooooo maaadddd!!!!

Anyway, I hope you are OK USH, I'm diving this weekend and going to try to forget this whole week, actually, the whole month. If anything can do that for me, diving can.

SH

Elad - I am leaving town for work and family business and won't be back for several days. I will have a more thoughtful post when I return, but am scrambling to complete a work project before my flight. I hope the memorial service goes well and that you are able to find some peace this weekend with everything that's going on in your life.

Seahorse -- The quick answer (and I'll try and catch up with you next week) is that WH has not filed, but I am ready for him to do so. I am doing ok and have realized there is much more out there in life for me. Still plagued with some sadness about the situation, but doing ok. Have a great dive trip (I am extremely jealous).